'Good' in Genesis 1

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Taken

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you play with words Taken, making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I'm precise with words.
You as well as I can observe the mounting pages of post after post of people pretending to address a Spiritual point, with "general" words, that have zero Spiritual meaning...then the mounting pages of disagreements, because "general" words have multiple "general" meanings.

All day long, people are saying...
I believe, I'm a Christian...AS IF, those general words have a Spiritual Meaning...
They don't.

Scripture IS Precise, and the Spiritual Understanding thereof IS Precise.
Whether or not to your liking, I have no shame for my efforts of being Precise as possible.
 

Cooper

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No, thats not the reason Ronald. The reason is to reconcile what the scriptures say. It tells us that God does not change; that he is the same yesterday, tomorrow and forever. It also tells us he has no darkness and that his M.O is love. I believe he is the love demonstrated in Jesus. A non violent, self sacrificing, unselfish and long suffering....attributes the angels in heaven swoon over and adore him for.

Jesus revealed this attitude/ M.O to fallen man.
Evil is not resident or belong to any part of God, contrary what Isaiah and contrary to what Job and his friends thought, in fact all those in Old Testament Times. They thought that because in their view of God being one, they concluded that the over arching force in the universe must be responsible for evil. That is exactly what the devil wanted them to think so God could be blamed. Quiet a trick for the Devil to pull off don't you think?

I have concluded; If we think God is responsible or in any way sanctions evil we have not known the God of Jesus....we have instead invented our own God and use Jesus to rubber stamp our theory. We interpret God erroneously through the lens of violence.
As Cyrus swept forward in his campaigns, there would be peace for Israel and calamity for Israel's foes, and God was the One who was supervising the entire operation.
.
 

quietthinker

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I'm precise with words.
You as well as I can observe the mounting pages of post after post of people pretending to address a Spiritual point, with "general" words, that have zero Spiritual meaning...then the mounting pages of disagreements, because "general" words have multiple "general" meanings.

All day long, people are saying...
I believe, I'm a Christian...AS IF, those general words have a Spiritual Meaning...
They don't.

Scripture IS Precise, and the Spiritual Understanding thereof IS Precise.
Whether or not to your liking, I have no shame for my efforts of being Precise as possible.
the more the words, the less the meaning!
 

Ronald David Bruno

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It also tells us he has no darknes ...
There is no darkness in Him.
He is Love.
He also is Sovereign, which means He allowed and in many cases caused calamities, troubles, destruction and death.
He gives life and takes it away doesn't He?
He brought the flood that killed the world before and He is coming again with an even greater death till than before. Are you somehow in denialbif Judgment Day.
He is a God of Justice and sin will be judged. That does'nt imply that He is evil.
 

quietthinker

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There is no darkness in Him.
He is Love.
He also is Sovereign, which means He allowed and in many cases caused calamities, troubles, destruction and death.
He gives life and takes it away doesn't He?
He brought the flood that killed the world before and He is coming again with an even greater death till than before. Are you somehow in denialbif Judgment Day.
He is a God of Justice and sin will be judged. That does'nt imply that He is evil.
How does one cause calamities, troubles, destruction and death when one loves the the recipients of these dark things.....or could it be that God is schizophrenic and has no problem being inconsistent?
 

Cooper

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How does one cause calamities, troubles, destruction and death when one loves the the recipients of these dark things.....or could it be that God is schizophrenic and has no problem being inconsistent?
The true God administers justice. If the wicked were not punished, I would be thinking we are discussing Satan. As it is God loves the righteous and hates wickedness. Very consistent.
.
 

quietthinker

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The true God administers justice. If the wicked were not punished, I would be thinking we are discussing Satan. As it is God loves the righteous and hates wickedness. Very consistent.
.
God's justice equates to liberation not punishment.
When God said to Adam you will surely die if you eat the fruit, was God talking about punishment or consequence? I think consequence because God's primary M.O is to deliver from oppression....even that of death.
 

Curtis

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God created good. But how do we know what good is unless we experience and know what it's opposite is, evil?
Adam and Eve (or the rest of us) could not really know or appreciate the attributes of God unless knew what it was like to be without them.
He put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden. He knew they would eat of it and that was part of the plan. Now we can know and appreciate good. We couldn't know forgiveness or mercy or comprehend happiness unless we are in need.
Example: An earthquake killed 300,000 people on Haiti, a country that suffered the worse impoverished conditions on the planet. They were also enslaved to evil religions such as Voodoo, demons lording over them. We can say they knew evil. What happened after the quake? The world, who before that point, ignored them, was now focused like a lazer beam on them, flooding them with medical aid, food, love, mercy, kindness, goodness and of course _ the gospel. Many conversions took place. Now they experienced good, they were thankful to the true God. Stories of them reflecting about their former lives subject to evil and fear, demon possessions, darkness, hopelessness, etc.; now seeing the LIGHT, understanding what good is ... and beauty.
It is a perfect plan.

"I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil (calamity, troubles, disaster): I the Lord do all these things." ISAIAH 45:7

So using that logic, my wife can’t appreciate my being good to her, unless first I treat her horribly and abuse her, to show her the contrast of a good vs horrible husband.

Shalom

BTW over two billion dollars of aid to Haiti was stolen by graft and corruption, leaving them still in grinding poverty and in dire need.
 
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Cooper

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God's justice equates to liberation not punishment.
When God said to Adam you will surely die if you eat the fruit, was God talking about punishment or consequence? I think consequence because God's primary M.O is to deliver from oppression....even that of death.
Adam and Eve were thrust out from the presence of God into eternal damnation for their disobedience. They had sined against God. The consequence and the punishment was eternal damnation.
.
 
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Curtis

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I believe you hold the traditional view. Intent means purpose. But God's intention is perfect and will be done.
He put the tree in there knowing what would happen. He also allowed Satan in there to tempt them. If his intention was just for man to live without knowing evil, our All Mighty, Perfect and All Knowing Creator would simply not put it in there to ensure there eternal though somewhat ignorant and naive bliss. He would have not let Satan in and would have destroyed him as well - as soon as he rebelled.
"I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7
Apparently, evil serves a purpose.

Satan created lies and malevolent evil, not God

Scripture says what God does is to create calamity and disaster when judging evil, as in the world wide flood calamity and disaster - which is far different than creating malevolent evil such as Satan is filled with.
 

n2thelight

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'And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good:
(H2896)
and God divided the light from the darkness.'
(Gen 1:3-4)

Hello there,

I opened my Bible to the first chapter of Genesis and started to read, and was arrested by the word 'good', for I remembered a debate in which it was argued that if everything that God made was good how could evil come from it? or something to that effect.

In my Bible's marginal notes the word, 'good' equals 'beautiful', and reference is made to Ecclesiastes 3:11, and I'm sorry but I have to quote it within it's context (ie., vv. 10-15):-

'What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboureth?
I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.
.. He hath made every thing beautiful in His time:
(H3303)
.... also He hath set the world (ie., the age) in their heart,
...... so that no man can find out the work that God maketh
........ from the beginning to the end.
I know that there is no good in them,
.. but for a man to rejoice,
.... and to do good in his life.
...... And also that every man should eat and drink,
........ and enjoy the good of all his labour,
.......... it is the gift of God.
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever:
.. nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it:
.... and God doeth it, that men should fear before Him.
That which hath been is now;
.. and that which is to be hath already been;
.... and God requireth that which is past.'


* This is an amazing portion of Scripture, and deserves to be considered for it's own sake, doesn't it. (Feel free to do that if you would like)

* So, the word, 'good' in Genesis 1:3-4 has the meaning of 'beautiful' in this context: and not 'good' in a moral sense, yes? Each day's work is called 'good' except the second day, in which nothing was created only divided (vv. 6-8).

* The word 'world', when translated from ('Kosmos' G2889) means a decoration, or an adorning too.

Any thoughts?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

We must start at v1

Genesis records Satan's first rebellion, and Revelation records Satan's last rebellion. Then in Genesis we find where sin enters into the world in this earth age, and Revelation reveals it's final doom at the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

There are two bodies mentioned in this verse; the heaven and the earth. It simply stated a fact and left the time factor out. The verse not only did not say when, but left it totally to our imagination, as to the eternal span of time, and how the creation took place.

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

was
1961 hayah
hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):KJV - beacon, altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, follow, happen, have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require, use.

void
922
bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:
KJV - emptiness, void.
The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]

Genesis 1:3 "And God said, "let there be light:" and there was light."

Almost every verse involving this creation story of Genesis one starts with the words; "And God said.". However in the Hebrew text it says; "And the Magnificent Lord God Almighty". The original text gives God the full Spirit movement, and the most respect possible for our Almighty Father God.

This verse is still in the first day when the light came into being.

Genesis 1:4 "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

It will be on into another day that the sun, and moon, and stars were created. What does it mean then when God said, "Let there be light"?

When the Holy Spirit of God, the "Ruach" in the Hebrew, moved upon the face of the earth; there is light, for He [the Holy Spirit] is light. Without the Holy Spirit there is total darkness, so the Holy Spirit of God, on the first day started His work.

Within the first chapter of Genesis God reveals His entire plan of God. Verses three through five are NOT dealing with the sun and moon, for they come later. But it is dealing with the presence of the Holy Spirit of God that is to be present throughout this earth age. That "Ruach" or Spirit is the first, and most important part of the creation, for without The Holy Spirit there is only darkness.

This is also the start of God's plan, which includes you and I, and all of God's children. The choice is choosing between the "Light", which is the Spirit of God", and darkness. Ezekiel 28:12-19 declares Satan, "the King of Tyrus", to be that darkness in the world. Then if your choice be darkness, verse 18 declares your destination after judgment: "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth..."

All prophecies in the entire Bible that refer to God's elect, or the children of God; those that happen to be in God's will, are called "children of light". This also applies to prophecies that are given in days, or solar years. [see Daniel 12:11]

In turn, all prophecies dealing with Satan, his wickedness, and his children are given in months, or moons. Satan's children, then are called the "children of darkness", or "of the night". [see Revelation 13:4, 5] Satan is the darkness that is the negative part of God's plan. Satan was here from the beginning of this earth age, and God allowed it.

Christ was also here, for he is the "Tree of Life".
 
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quietthinker

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Adam and Eve were thrust out from the presence of God into eternal damnation for their disobedience. They had sined against God. The consequence and the punishment was eternal damnation.
.
I am sure glad that God is not harsh and rejecting as your words makes it appear.
I would say, they were refused entry to the garden so they could not access the tree of life....hardly eternal damnation seeing God came looking for them. They (Adam and Eve) were the ones on the run; trying to hide not only from God but their own guilt and shame which by the way had nothing to do with not having clothes on seeing they were the only ones around.

Their whole view had changed; they now perceived God to be angry with them but that was far from the case. He supplied them with coverings and made a promise to comfort their wounded hearts so they could live in hope....the promise of a Saviour.

Their fear, their miserable picture of God, the weight of their guilt, their troubles and their death in time were all the consequences of their rebellion, nevertheless, God never stopped loving them....ever......and he woos us still with tender and drawing cords.

He shall never stop loving his erring creatures.....even when the wicked come to their sticky end it will be by their own hand as will that of Satan and his angels.

When Jesus looked over Jerusalem from the Mt of Olives for the last time and these plaintive words came from his lips 'Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often would I have gathered you as a hen gathers her chicks, but you would not; behold, your house is left to you desolate' he was heart broken. They had rejected their Messiah and he was weeping because of it....they had sealed their own fate, their own demise.
 
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Cooper

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I am sure glad that God is not harsh and rejecting as your words makes it appear.
I would say, they were refused entry to the garden so they could not access the tree of life....hardly eternal damnation seeing God came looking for them. They (Adam and Eve) were the ones on the run; trying to hide not only from God but their own guilt and shame which by the way had nothing to do with not having clothes on seeing they were the only ones around.

Their whole view had changed; they now perceived God to be angry with them but that was far from the case. He supplied them with coverings and made a promise to comfort their wounded hearts so they could live in hope....the promise of a Saviour.

Their fear, their miserable picture of God, the weight of their guilt, their troubles and their death in time were all the consequences of their rebellion, nevertheless, God never stopped loving them....ever......and he woos us still with tender and drawing cords.

He shall never stop loving his erring creatures.....even when the wicked come to their sticky end it will be by their own hand as will that of Satan and his angels.

When Jesus looked over Jerusalem from the Mt of Olives for the last time and these plaintive words came from his lips 'Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often would I have gathered you as a hen gathers her chicks, but you would not; behold, your house is left to you desolate' he was heart broken. They had rejected their Messiah and he was weeping because of it....they had sealed their own fate, their own demise.
They were IN the garden and thrust out.

By the way, were you lightbearer on another message board?
.
 

Curtis

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Adam and Eve were thrust out from the presence of God into eternal damnation for their disobedience. They had sined against God. The consequence and the punishment was eternal damnation.
.

Nothing in scripture says Adam and Eve were eternally damned for their sin, in fact God shedding blood of an animal to make a covering for them, symbolized animal sacrifice as an atonement for sin, as was done in mosaic covenant law.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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God created good. But how do we know what good is unless we experience and know what it's opposite is, evil?
Adam and Eve (or the rest of us) could not really know or appreciate the attributes of God unless knew what it was like to be without them.
He put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden. He knew they would eat of it and that was part of the plan. Now we can know and appreciate good. We couldn't know forgiveness or mercy or comprehend happiness unless we are in need.
Example: An earthquake killed 300,000 people on Haiti, a country that suffered the worse impoverished conditions on the planet. They were also enslaved to evil religions such as Voodoo, demons lording over them. We can say they knew evil. What happened after the quake? The world, who before that point, ignored them, was now focused like a lazer beam on them, flooding them with medical aid, food, love, mercy, kindness, goodness and of course _ the gospel. Many conversions took place. Now they experienced good, they were thankful to the true God. Stories of them reflecting about their former lives subject to evil and fear, demon possessions, darkness, hopelessness, etc.; now seeing the LIGHT, understanding what good is ... and beauty.
It is a perfect plan.

"I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil (calamity, troubles, disaster): I the Lord do all these things." ISAIAH 45:7

I disagree that God knowingly and willfully created the Devil or a Satan. I disagree that sin and death was part of God's plan or part of his purpose. By saying something like that you're saying that the Devil and Satan and sin and death originated from God. Satan the Devil therefore, sin and death, are about chaos and confusion. Chaos and confusion doesn't originate from The True God, but according to you you're saying they do because you're saying that Satan the Devil and sin and death which would include chaos and confusion was all part of Gods plan always part of his purpose for these things to be this way. I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

Regarding God’s creation, which includes the first humans on earth, the Genesis account says: “God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good.” Genesis 1:31 Adam and Eve were perfectly made, perfectly suited to their earthly environment. There was nothing deficient in their makeup.They were created “very good,” they were certainly capable of the good conduct that was required of them. They were created “in God’s image.” Genesis 1:27. So they had the capacity to demonstrate to some degree the godly qualities of wisdom, loyal love, justice, and goodness. Reflecting such qualities would help them to make decisions that would benefit them and bring pleasure to the Only True God their heavenly Father.

Jehovah gave Adam and Eve, who were intelligent human beings free will. So they were by no means preprogrammed to please God, like some sort of robots. Think about it. Which would mean more to you, a gift that is given mechanically or one that comes from the heart? The answer is obvious to me. Likewise, if Adam and Eve had freely chosen to obey God, their obedience would have meant all the more to God. The capacity to choose enabled the first human pair to obey Jehovah out of love. Deuteronomy 30:19,20 Just because Adam Eve chose to be disobedient because of their lack of love for Jehovah, doesn't mean they didn't have the ability to love him enough to be obedient to Jehovah.

The Bible reveals Jehovah’s qualities to us. These qualities make it impossible for him to have anything to do with sin. Jehovah “is a lover of righteousness and justice,” says Psalm 33:5 so James 1:13 says: “With evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.” Out of fairness and consideration, God warned Adam: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will die.” Genesis 2:16,17 The first couple were given a choice between endless life and death. Would it not have been hypocritical for God to warn them against a specific sin while already knowing the bad outcome? As “a lover of righteousness and justice,” Jehovah would not have offered a choice that in reality did not exist.
 

Cooper

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Nothing in scripture says Adam and Eve were eternally damned for their sin, in fact God shedding blood of an animal to make a covering for them, symbolized animal sacrifice as an atonement for sin, as was done in mosaic covenant law.
Come on! Read it will you. Adam was thrust out of the garden and prevented from ever returning. The temptress remained. We need to make sure we do as God commands and not be tempted away. We are the children of Adam, and as you say, the shedding of blood redeems those who confess their sins before the Lord. With all the religions in the world, I'm not sure many will come to Jesus for the remission of sins.

Genesis 3:17-24 ISV
(17) He told the man, "Because you have listened to what your wife said, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,' cursed is the ground because of you. You'll eat from it through pain-filled labor for the rest of your life.
(18) It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you'll eat the plants from the meadows.
(19) You will eat food by the sweat of your brow until you're buried in the ground, because you were taken from it. You're made from dust and you'll return to dust."
(20) Now Adam had named his wife "Eve," because she was to become the mother of everyone who was living.
(21) The LORD God fashioned garments from animal skins for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
(22) Later, the LORD God said, "Look! The man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, so he won't reach out, also take from the tree of life, eat, and then live forever—"
(23) therefore the LORD God expelled the man from the garden of Eden so he would work the ground from which he had been taken.
(24) After he had expelled the man, the LORD God placed winged angels at the eastern end of the garden of Eden, along with a fiery whirling sword, to prevent access to the tree of life.
.
 
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