Actually, all you have to do is think a little deeper and you could answer your own question. How COMMON do you think FRESH GRAPE JUICE was back in those days????? They didn't have refrigerators, no preservatives like we have these days. So FRESH juice was a RARE TREAT!!!! Juice would begin to taste old and even begin to ferment slightly within not much more than a WEEK in those days when not refrigerated. Then, most people were VERY POOR and couldn't afford even basic necessities like we can these days, let alone to buy wine to drink all the time. Poor water quality was also a VERY COMMON PROBLEM, so you apparently haven't studied enough to realize that it was very common to PURIFY WATER by diluting "wine" to a very low alcoholic state. Often a 20 to 1 mixture. This is "mixed" wine, unlike "UNMIXED WINE" which is what the Bible refers to as STRONG DRINK. So there is the "mixed" wine which is what most people were drinking when it uses the word wine, then there is UNMIXED wine which is referred to as strong drink, and there is grape juice. When Jesus turned water into wine, it was NEW WINE (which means GRAPE JUICE). The people who tasted it were AMAZED, as it was not only AMAZINGLY FRESH (a TREAT which they RARELY go to enjoy!!!), but was also UNMIXED (ie, not watered down!!!). It was PURE, FRESH GRAPE JUICE!!! How AMAZING of a miracle that would have been!!
The Lord Jesus Christ never drank alcohol - THE CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL IN ANY FORM IS A SIN!
- Thread starter Mitch Etling
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Actually, all you have to do is think a little deeper and you could answer your own question. How COMMON do you think FRESH GRAPE JUICE was back in those days????? They didn't have refrigerators, no preservatives like we have these days. So FRESH juice was a RARE TREAT!!!! Juice would begin to taste old and even begin to ferment slightly within not much more than a WEEK in those days when not refrigerated. Then, most people were VERY POOR and couldn't afford even basic necessities like we can these days, let alone to buy wine to drink all the time. Poor water quality was also a VERY COMMON PROBLEM, so you apparently haven't studied enough to realize that it was very common to PURIFY WATER by diluting "wine" to a very low alcoholic state. Often a 20 to 1 mixture. This is "mixed" wine, unlike "UNMIXED WINE" which is what the Bible refers to as STRONG DRINK. So there is the "mixed" wine which is what most people were drinking when it uses the word wine, then there is UNMIXED wine which is referred to as strong drink, and there is grape juice. When Jesus turned water into wine, it was NEW WINE (which means GRAPE JUICE). The people who tasted it were AMAZED, as it was not only AMAZINGLY FRESH (a TREAT which they RARELY go to enjoy!!!), but was also UNMIXED (ie, not watered down!!!). It was PURE, FRESH GRAPE JUICE!!! How AMAZING of a miracle that would have been!!
Mitch Etling, you are a BABBLING FOOL!!! None of your replies have an OUNCE of LOVE, which Jesus stated very clearly is the most important characteristic and Fruit of the spirit there is!!! So YOU are ALSO bound for HELL, because you have not love in you. You are a judgemental hypocrite. You are also denying the very CORE of christ's teaching, namely that we are saved by GRACE THRU FAITH, and NOT OF WORKS!!! Christ himself said ALL MANNER OF SIN SHALL BE FORGIVEN, which I'm pretty sure includes drinking alcohol!!! Even if drinking alcohol IS a sin, sins are forgiven thru Christ's blood, you do not go to Hell because of your SIN!!!! You go to Hell for REJECTING CHRIST'S PAYMENT for your sin!!! If you truly accept Christ and are born again, then you do not go to hell just because you sin!!!! You foolish unlearned pharisee!!! Better get on your knees and do some repenting.
it says wine it means wine
This s a Jewish marrige and they drank wine
Four cups of wine were required to celebrate the Passover
it’s a type of grace
The new covenant
saved the best for last
and because of Mary’s intercession the disciples believed
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Lol, nice try. There lots of refernces in the Bible about getting drunk on wine, to avoid It, words of wisdom. When people drink lots, they don't notice the difference in quality any more.
Still, sounds like a Mormon theology.
QuickFilly
Member
Repent now!
Because you're trying to tell us ultimately that Jesus sinned and led people to sin when he converted water into wine. John 2.
And it was wine, not grape juice, because wine was and remains a staple in Jewish and Canaanite weddings.
When Fundies - for their own reasons - try to claim the Lord Jesus did not turn the water into wine, the liberals can reply and say, Well, now you guys can agree with us after all that it wasn't a miracle...
QuickFilly
Member
Liberals say that a child is whatever gender they think they are.
What do I care what Liberals say?
They don't care what God says.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You can research this on your own.
The symbiology of wine, the vineyards permeates Christ teachings and is part of Last Supper. Everything about it including the grapevines become symbolic within Christianity. Wine's connection to blood is not grape juice.
The viniculture and harvest were big in that era. There is nothing called a grape press in that era, it all winepresses. No refrigeration in that era, no way to keep grape juice.
Going from well to well back then could make you sick because of the flora of the wells. It was known to mix wine with water to neutralize the flora. That is why Paul told Timothy to drink a little wine, he was not trying to get him to sin.
Christ did not sin when He turned water into wine and He did not sin when He drank with others.
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Even “Mormons” don’t find drinking to be inherently sinful itself. Rather I, a “Mormon”, don’t drink because I made a promise to God that I won’t drink. Not because drinking is inherently sinful.
Does God care how much grape juice an elder drinks?
Let’s plug GRAPE JUICE into this:
An elder shall not be a drinker of much GRAPE JUICE. <—— scripture, only it says wine, not grape juice
There’s a term for non fermented wine: GRAPE JUICE.
It’s no sin to have a glass of wine with a meal - and I don’t care for wine BTW.
Scripture says being drunk is excess. Being drunk is the sin, not sipping a glass of wine:
And be ye not drunk with wine, wherein is EXCESS <—- scripture
BTW when Jesus turned water into wine, what the host said to Jesus proves it was fermented wine not Welches grape juice.
To be continued...
And the wine then was naturally fermented, and of much lower alcohol content than today’s wine is.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Mitch....you are applying these texts just because others disagree with you....I would ask whether Jesus took a hard nose approach like this? I understand you may have the health of others at heart. Wooing gleans better results than condemnation.
Imagine if you slap your children over the mouth every time they say something you don't approve of....are you going to get your children's admiration??
Do not pass Go; do not collect $200. If you drink, I guarantee that you will be sinning! If you could get past the, "It's a sin to drink alcohol," thing, the odd drink might enhance your personality. Might. Mitch, your legalism is hurting no one but yourself. Please try to grasp the fact that not one of us can, in any way, atone for our own sin. I'm not saying that we're free to do whatever we want; there's far too much of that going on with believers. Through faith in the complete atonement purchased for us by the Holy Lamb Of God, we are completely and eternally accepted by our heavenly Father. He will discipline us, as He sees fit, when we need it, but He will never leave us nor forsake us. "Lord, I pray that You would replace Mitch's scriptural worldview with Yours. I ask this in Jesus' holy name. Amen.
not by a lying tongue by by a divine miracle
you can’t repent, “faith alone” remember!
protestant dogma!
This is another false doctrine created by reviewing a couple scriptures and not examining all the scriptures that pertain to a subject. I reviewed a few of the posts and it's obviously a false doctrine OP.
Helen
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Strange God didn’t give Paul the memo!
“Take a little wine for your stomachs sake…” to Timothy.
another legalist come to crush life out of Gods people and bind them up.
…the walk with Father is freedom and life…not a list of rules and regulations …our walk is a relationship, not a dead “religion”
“Take a little wine for your stomachs sake…” to Timothy.
another legalist come to crush life out of Gods people and bind them up.
…the walk with Father is freedom and life…not a list of rules and regulations …our walk is a relationship, not a dead “religion”
Mantis
Well-Known Member
All things are lawful but not all things are expedient. I do not think drinking a glass of wine will send you to hell. That’s a bit extreme. Our Lord is not a monster. Now getting drunk is specifically forbidden. I spent most of my life drunk and I can see why he commands us not to. Alcohol can bring you to destruction. Fights, fornication, black outs, health problems, addiction, relationship problems.
It’s not good for you and some people cannot just have a glass of wine, they have bottles. Or a person that cannot drink one beer, they drink a case etc.
I think Jesus is saying that if you make a life of being a drunkard then you will not enter heaven.
It’s not good for you and some people cannot just have a glass of wine, they have bottles. Or a person that cannot drink one beer, they drink a case etc.
I think Jesus is saying that if you make a life of being a drunkard then you will not enter heaven.
and I thought all scripture was inspired even one word
Even one word is still the word of God
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