When the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth

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quietthinker

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see though that is confusing because It says knowing he was cast unto the earth he was wroth. I’m not sure of the 3 1/2 year tribulation and the second half the great tribulation. At what point then is the dragon cast unto the earth…at the beginning of the seven years, at the 3 1/2 mark, or during the great tribulation? If prior to the seven year tribulation then is that is why he is wroth knowing he has but 7 years? How does he see he is cast unto the earth? Or how does he get cast unto earth? I’m questioning if how he knows his time is short is because of
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
The eschatology is wrong ViJ....thats why the dots can't be joined coherently.
 

Oseas

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How does he see he is cast unto the earth? Or how does he get cast unto earth?

What you above ask is very simple to know for those who believe in the Scriptures, not for unbelievers and scoffers.
Revelation 12:v.7-9 and 12


7 And there was WAR in heaven (HEAVEN? WHAT HEAVEN? Read Ephesians 1:v.3, by the way, in what heaven are you now?: Michael and his messengers fought against the Dragon (the false messiah of the Jews-John 5:v.43 and Revelation 13:v.11); and the Dragon fought and his messengers(2Corinthians 11:v.13-15),

8 And (the messengers of the Dragon-2Corinthians 11:v.13-15) prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.-i.e. among the true believers in Christ, the true Christians.

9 And the great Dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth-ISRAEL, THE CLAY, THE DRY LAND-and of the sea(peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues-the Gentile peoples)! for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the Dragon (Satan incarnated-2 Thes.2) saw that HE WAS cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (the Body of Christ-the Church) which brought forth the man child.-Michael, the archangel-Dan.12:v.1-3 and 1 Thes.4:v.16.


Ephesians 6:v.12-14

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places (in heaven-Ephesians 1:v.3).

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;



I’m questioning if how he knows his time is short is because of
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Colossians 2:v.15 is about crucifixion of JESUS and the final victory as is written in 1 Corinthians 15:v.24 to 27:

24 The END cometh when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to GOD, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
 

quietthinker

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Your DOTS interpretation is a quaint way of seeing the meaning of 'dots' but its not the understanding I was trying to convey.
When I use the 'dots' expression I think of a youngster being given a dotted picture and their job is to join them in a coherent manner....let's say a rabbit.....they are to join the dots so the intended picture emerges. They can however join them in any order they like, let's say the nose to the tail or the foot to the head which ultimately results in a picture never intended....in fact, a mess.

Secondly, Revelation 12 is a picture of Gods Church whether NT or OT. It is this Church which is under threat by the dragon
OT Israel never qualified as being clothed with the sun....although that was Gods intention for them. In short, the history of Israel was one of rebellion and of being stiff necked so much so they were in danger of the land spewing them out....and finally Jesus's own plaintive declaration 'your house is left to you desolate'
 

VictoryinJesus

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7 And there was WAR in heaven (HEAVEN? WHAT HEAVEN? Read Ephesians 1:v.3, by the way, in what heaven are you now?: Michael and his messengers fought against the Dragon (the false messiah of the Jews-John 5:v.43 and Revelation 13:v.11); and the Dragon fought and his messengers(2Corinthians 11:v.13-15),

8 And (the messengers of the Dragon-2Corinthians 11:v.13-15) prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.-i.e. among the true believers in Christ, the true Christians.


Revelation 12:7-11 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, [8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. [9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. [10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. [11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Reminds me of: Matthew 16:17-18 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. [18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
 

Oseas

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Revelation 5:v.9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Matthew 5:v.5 -

5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
 

Stumpmaster

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Secondly, Revelation 12 is a picture of Gods Church whether NT or OT. It is this Church which is under threat by the dragon
OT Israel never qualified as being clothed with the sun....although that was Gods intention for them. In short, the history of Israel was one of rebellion and of being stiff necked so much so they were in danger of the land spewing them out....and finally Jesus's own plaintive declaration 'your house is left to you desolate'
It is theologically incorrect to interpret the woman who gives birth to the malechild who becomes a ruler as "the church" for the obvious reasons that theologically "the church" is still virginal, and Christ isn't born of "the church".

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

I know whose dots don't join up.
 

Oseas

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13 And when the Dragon (Satan incarnated-2 Thes.2) saw that HE WAS cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (the Body of Christ-the Church) which brought forth the man child.- Michael, the archangel-Dan.12:v.1-3 and 1 Thes.4:v.16.
 

ReChoired

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I’m not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this. When the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth

1) when did the dragon see that he was cast unto the earth?

2) how did the dragon get cast unto the earth that made him wroth knowing but his time was short? Knowing his time was short and he was cast unto to the earth; he went to make war… ...
The texts:

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.​

"saw" means 'to perceive, or understand with the 'eye' of the mind/heart' (G1492; see also Genesis 3:5-7; or Luke 11:44; 1 Corinthians 13:2, 14:16; Acts 15:6, 24:22 and many others).

In other words, when the devil understood because of the event that took place.

The "event" was Calvary (AD 31; Daniel 8:13-14,26, 9:25; Hebrews 2:3, etc):

Rom_5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Additionally, "cast down" (vs 10), is not the same as "cast out" (vs 9). "cast down" refers to office or position of authority. Christ Jesus took that back from him (satan) by being victorious at Calvary (Matthew 28:18). The devil had previously wrested it (deceitfully) from Adam the first, who had been given "dominion" of the earth (in stewardship under God), but because of Adam the last (Jesus, 1 Corinthians 15:45) the devil lost it. The "cast unto the earth" (vs 13) means that the devil, that serpent of old, that dragon, is now stuck (set/cast) down here (1 Peter 5:8), and can no longer go back to the Heavenly council (as before in Job; 1 Kings 22; 2 Chronicles 18) as representing this world.

The devil knows his time is short because he studies the prophesies of God, even of Daniel (Ezekiel 28:3, etc), and they know the general time (Matthew 8:29) with which they can 'work' evil, 6 days (6,000 years), see Genesis 1:1-2:3, therefore, since Calvary they had just 2 'days' left (2 Peter 3:8).
 

quietthinker

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It is theologically incorrect to interpret the woman who gives birth to the malechild who becomes a ruler as "the church" for the obvious reasons that theologically "the church" is still virginal, and Christ isn't born of "the church".
Jesus came through the line of those who believed in him. Several were not even Israelites like Rahab or Ruth, others also.....yet they are included with God's People (his Church) because they believed. Abraham also was no Israelite for he was around before Israel was established....so you could say Abraham was a gentile who believed God's promises.
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
Here again, Paul is talking to the gentile believers in Corinth.
 

Stumpmaster

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Jesus came through the line of those who believed in him. Several were not even Israelites like Rahab or Ruth, others also.....yet they are included with God's People (his Church) because they believed. Abraham also was no Israelite for he was around before Israel was established....so you could say Abraham was a gentile who believed God's promises.
The metaphor of the woman in Rev 12 derives from Joseph's dream in Gen 37 and carries the same imagery that identifies his parents and brothers so that Israel as a nation of 12 tribes is in view in both instances.

Gen 37:9-10 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. (10) And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

Rev 12:1-2 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: (2) And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
 

quietthinker

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The metaphor of the woman in Rev 12 derives from Joseph's dream in Gen 37 and carries the same imagery that identifies his parents and brothers so that Israel as a nation of 12 tribes is in view in both instances.
The number 12 signifies all of Gods people throughout all time (known as Israel) not isolated to physical Israel. Physical Israel for the most part were and are an abysmal failure as God's representatives but spiritual Israel ie, all who are truly God's people, Jews and Gentiles alike, are represented by the twelve.
 

Stumpmaster

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The number 12 signifies all of Gods people throughout all time (known as Israel) not isolated to physical Israel. Physical Israel for the most part were and are an abysmal failure as God's representatives but spiritual Israel ie, all who are truly God's people, Jews and Gentiles alike, are represented by the twelve.
No doubt some sources are of the same opinion as you, but more correctly the number 12 in Biblical Numerology symbolises governmental division, particularly among God's People, and also in timekeeping.

Joh 11:9-10 Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. (10) But if one walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him."

The metaphor of the woman cannot apply to the NT "church" since as a virgin waitng to be presented to her husband her travailing in childbirth does not comport.
 

quietthinker

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No doubt some sources are of the same opinion as you, but more correctly the number 12 in Biblical Numerology symbolises governmental division, particularly among God's People, and also in timekeeping.

Joh 11:9-10 Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. (10) But if one walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him."

The metaphor of the woman cannot apply to the NT "church" since as a virgin waitng to be presented to her husband her travailing in childbirth does not comport.
'virgin' is reference to being spotless and clean as we see in Ephesians 5:27, Revelation 21:2, 14:4 It has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with not having had sexual relations.
The Church is presented as a pure woman as depicted in Revelation 12 as opposed to an impure woman shown in Revelation 17
 

ReChoired

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No doubt some sources are of the same opinion as you, but more correctly the number 12 in Biblical Numerology symbolises governmental division, particularly among God's People, and also in timekeeping.
12 means "service":

•“of 12” – Service, Victory over self (Israel; OT – 12 patriarchs & NT – 12 disciples/apostles; prince or overcomer with God) and always being about the Father’s business, rulership (Est. 9:1; as the 12 hours in the day/night; Jhn. 11:9), purification (Est. 2:12), and 6 + 6 were the two stacks of the shewbread, a place for the Father and Son (Lev. 24:5-6); see: Gen. 14:4, 42:13; 1 Ki. 4:7, 18:31; 1 Chr. 25:6,9-31; 2 Chr. 34:3; Neh. 5:14; Eze. 47:12; Mat. 10:5-10; Mar. 3:14-15, 9:35; Luk. 2:42,49, 9:1-2; Jhn. 18:36; Act. 26:7; Jam. 1:1; Rev. 7:3,4-8, 22:2.​
 

Stumpmaster

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12 means "service":

•“of 12” – Service, Victory over self (Israel; OT – 12 patriarchs & NT – 12 disciples/apostles; prince or overcomer with God) and always being about the Father’s business, rulership (Est. 9:1; as the 12 hours in the day/night; Jhn. 11:9), purification (Est. 2:12), and 6 + 6 were the two stacks of the shewbread, a place for the Father and Son (Lev. 24:5-6); see: Gen. 14:4, 42:13; 1 Ki. 4:7, 18:31; 1 Chr. 25:6,9-31; 2 Chr. 34:3; Neh. 5:14; Eze. 47:12; Mat. 10:5-10; Mar. 3:14-15, 9:35; Luk. 2:42,49, 9:1-2; Jhn. 18:36; Act. 26:7; Jam. 1:1; Rev. 7:3,4-8, 22:2.​
There are so many variations and associations in circulation regarding numerological symbolism that consensus is an idealistic expectation.

Service and Government do have much in common, with duration being managed in divisions of 12 hours and 12 months, and it is not surprising that the Tree of Life yields 12 fruits to eternalise the administration of time.

Berean Literal Bible
Rev 22:2
In the middle of its street and of the river, on this side and on that side, was a tree of life, producing twelve fruits, yielding its fruit according to each month; and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
 

quietthinker

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The metaphorical Whore of Babylon in Revelation 17 is not specifically "the church".
Not 'the church' but could it be 'a church'. Could it be deducted that if a pure church is represented by a pure woman then an apostate church is aptly represented as an impure woman? I think so.