Infant baptism biblical?

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Gregory

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Luke 1:32-33 says nothing about church replacing Israel. It actually is establishing and endorsing Israel. V 32 says give Him the throne of David, well this is fulfilling prophecy that a king from the house of David/who represents the tribe of Judah will always be on the throne who is our King Messiah Jesus. Who is of the line of David through Mary and Joseph. This is why they were in Bethlehem at the time of His birth because of the census called they were all required to go to their homeland/tribe to be counted Bethlehem is in the land allotted to Judah as is Jerusalem way back when they first entered and conquered Canaan and the land was split up into the 12 tribes. V 33 He will rule over the House of Jacob. Well this is just another way of saying Israel/the house of Israel. Confirming the prophecies in Ezekiel 37 where the two houses of Israel that were one then divided will be bought into one again establishing Israel again and Jesus our Messiah will rule and reign as King. Praise God

Matt 21:43 The context is a parable. A parable is a story told to make a point. Yes many rejected Him as Messiah. The kingdom can be taken from those that reject Him. This is what Paul talks about in Rom 11 about being grafted in even the natural branches that were broken off can be grafted back in to the olive tree. Olive tree represents Israel. Paul also warns Gentiles who have been grafted in not to be prideful and remember that we don't support the root the root supports us. Yes even the people involved in Judaism need to receive the redemption of Messiah these who do are the natural branches who were broken of and grafted back in through our Messiah. Trust me there are many many many Jews/Judaism accepting and receiving Jesus as the Messiah. But Matt 21:43 again is not saying the church has replaced Israel.

There are no contradictions in the word of God. Reject the false man-made doctrine of man about replacement theology, it is ugly deceptive and plain evil.

Shalom Friend
Not sure how you read scripture, but Matthew 21:43 absolutely says that God will replace the negligent Israel with other nations that will produce fruit. If you are a Jew, don't be offended, it happened. You are one of the spiritual minded that saw the right path and are happily moving with Jesus in your life. Good going.

By the way, I am from the house of Ephraim, you are from the house of Judah in the House of Israel, so I understand what you are thinking.
 

Gregory

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or maybe he is defeated
We are not looking to necessarily defeat our friends in this Christian chat room, but to show them information they may not be aware of. If they are aware and just ignore or refuse to drink, then we politely end the conversation and part friends, always.
 

theefaith

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We are not looking to necessarily defeat our friends in this Christian chat room, but to show them information they may not be aware of. If they are aware and just ignore or refuse to drink, then we politely end the conversation and part friends, always.
I meant his arguments
 

Ancient

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Not sure how you read scripture, but Matthew 21:43 absolutely says that God will replace the negligent Israel with other nations that will produce fruit. If you are a Jew, don't be offended, it happened. You are one of the spiritual minded that saw the right path and are happily moving with Jesus in your life. Good going.

By the way, I am from the house of Ephraim, you are from the house of Judah in the House of Israel, so I understand what you are thinking.

There is the one new man which is what Paul explains when he declares it's not whether your a Jew, Gentile, male, female, slave or free. All are one in Messiah. Hallelulyah. No I am not a Jew, please be careful in assumptions. I am from house of Ephraim/Israel also.

Shalom Brother
 

dev553344

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Acts 2:28-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
I've heard of baptizing children at age of accountability but not infants.
 

theefaith

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There is the one new man which is what Paul explains when he declares it's not whether your a Jew, Gentile, male, female, slave or free. All are one in Messiah. Hallelulyah. No I am not a Jew, please be careful in assumptions. I am from house of Ephraim/Israel also.

Shalom Brother

not other nations but the universal church that bears fruit Jn 15:1-5

Major covenants!

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal)

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church
 

theefaith

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I've heard of baptizing children at age of accountability but not infants.

you just read it!

This promise (ez 36:25-27) is to your children acts 2:38-39

Acts 16:15
And when she was baptized, and her household.....

does it say accept infants?

Or the entire household!

they have no personal sin so no repentance is required then the parents pledge to teach them the faith as the grow up, but they need to be baptized to be united to Christ the mediator of grace to be in communion with God and the saints
 

dev553344

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you just read it!

This promise (ez 36:25-27) is to your children acts 2:38-39

Acts 16:15
And when she was baptized, and her household.....

does it say accept infants?

Or the entire household!

they have no personal sin so no repentance is required then the parents pledge to teach them the faith as the grow up, but they need to be baptized to be united to Christ the mediator of grace to be in communion with God and the saints
I don't have a problem baptizing infants that can't choose for themselves. But I think they should be of an age when they can make an educated decision on their own. I mean Mormons baptize the dead, and they say the dead will have to choose whether or not to accept it. I don't know, they also say that children are "born in the covenant" and therefore receive salvation this way. So Catholics baptizing infants is a similar idea. Being born into salvation instead of born into sin.
 

dev553344

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theefaith

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I don't have a problem baptizing infants that can't choose for themselves. But I think they should be of an age when they can make an educated decision on their own. I mean Mormons baptize the dead, and they say the dead will have to choose whether or not to accept it. I don't know, they also say that children are "born in the covenant" and therefore receive salvation this way. So Catholics baptizing infants is a similar idea. Being born into salvation instead of born into sin.

lds is a cult too!

no we say born in original sin that is washed away in baptism that’s why infants need baptism Jn 3:5 baptism required
 

dev553344

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lds is a cult too!
Why do you think it is a cult? They claim to have revelation and prophecy that goes beyond the bible. I see that they have revelation about tobacco being bad for people. And that appears true. They also practiced polygamy and that is wrong. So I would say they have a mixed bag of prophecies. Some true and some false. Probably most are false.

The Catholic church has some strange doctrine also, like the Eucharist being the actual body and blood of Jesus. Like they're actually eating Jesus instead of partaking in the Holy Spirit. Isn't that cult like?
 

theefaith

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Why do you think it is a cult? They claim to have revelation and prophecy that goes beyond the bible. I see that they have revelation about tobacco being bad for people. And that appears true. They also practiced polygamy and that is wrong. So I would say they have a mixed bag of prophecies. Some true and some false. Probably most are false.

The Catholic church has some strange doctrine also, like the Eucharist being the actual body and blood of Jesus. Like they're actually eating Jesus instead of partaking in the Holy Spirit. Isn't that cult like?

mormons were started by Joseph smith from the “burned over district” less than 200 yrs and the true church is founded by Christ on Peter and is universal in time and space Matt 16:18

doctrine commanded by Christ are not strange!

Matthew 26:26
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this ismy body.

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
 
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dev553344

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mormons were started by Joseph smith from the “burned over district” less than 200 yrs and the true church is founded by Christ on Peter and is universal in time and space Matt 16:18

doctrine commanded by Christ are not strange!

Matthew 26:26
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this ismy body.

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

I think Catholics misunderstand those passages. It says do in remembrance of me. Key point is remembrance. It doesn't say you're eating the Lord's body and drinking his blood. I see we're going to disagree on that.
 
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theefaith

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I think Catholics misunderstand those passages. It says do in remembrance of me. Key point is remembrance. It doesn't say you're eating the Lord's body and drinking his blood. I see we're going to disagree on that.

He meant it he even lost disciples over it vs 66

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48 I am that bread of life.

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
 

An Apologetic Sheepdog

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Why do you think it is a cult? They claim to have revelation and prophecy that goes beyond the bible. I see that they have revelation about tobacco being bad for people. And that appears true. They also practiced polygamy and that is wrong. So I would say they have a mixed bag of prophecies. Some true and some false. Probably most are false.

To start with, they deny Jesus is the only Son of the Living God and the only way to Salvation and actually end with universal salvation but lets assume that's off the table.

They were given all this through magic glasses allegedly from an angel names "Moroni". ( not how that works)

No one alive then could hold the office of Apostle or prophet because they could not be an eye witness to the resurrection ( thus no validity)

We wont even get into becoming gods with your own planets and all the Battlestar Galactica stuff
 

Wrangler

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Acts 2:28-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

I thought this thread was going to make the faintest effort to defend the unbiblical practice of baptizing infants unable yet to decide to be a follower of Christ.

Your own reference does not support the claim in any way whatsoever. The promise of receiving the Holy Spirit is onto the children, not baptism.
 

theefaith

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To start with, they deny Jesus is the only Son of the Living God and the only way to Salvation and actually end with universal salvation but lets assume that's off the table.

They were given all this through magic glasses allegedly from an angel names "Moroni". ( not how that works)

No one alive then could hold the office of Apostle or prophet because they could not be an eye witness to the resurrection ( thus no validity)

We wont even get into becoming gods with your own planets and all the Battlestar Galactica stuff

you forgot the copper scrolls!!!
 

theefaith

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I thought this thread was going to make the faintest effort to defend the unbiblical practice of baptizing infants unable yet to decide to be a follower of Christ.

Your own reference does not support the claim in any way whatsoever. The promise of receiving the Holy Spirit is onto the children, not baptism.

received by baptism
Child don’t have to repent they have no personal sin