Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Kermos · Aug 17, 2021

Some free willians declare that God establishes an agreement (contract) with man choosing God unto man's salvation, yet no scripture supports such free-willian philosophy.

The Word of God declares that God establishes a covenant with man by His word "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood" (Luke 22:20).

COMPARE AND CONTRAST "CONTRACT" AND "COVENANT"

CONTRACT:
(1) A two-party.contract is an agreement between two parties in which each party provides valuable consideration to the other party.
(2) This contract type is an exchange of treasure.
(3) This contract type represents mutual promise as well as mutual obligation.
(4) Both parties actively engage in this contract type.
(5) scriptural example of this contract type with regard to man's salvation: none.

COVENANT:
(1) A two-party covenant is a promise of valuable consideration by a first party to a second party (see Luke 22:20 below for scriptural application).
(2) This covenant type is a transfer of treasure (see Luke 1:72-74 below for scriptural application).
(3) This covenant type represents the first party promise as well as the first party's obligation (see Hebrews 6:13 below for scriptural application)
(4) The first party actively engages in this covenant type, and the second party passively receives in this covenant type (see Romans 4:8-10 below for scriptural application).
(5) scriptural example of this covenant type with regard to man's salvation: "For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption" (see Hebrews 9:15 below for scriptural application) and "a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives" (see Hebrews 9:15 below for scriptural application).

Romans 4:8-10
8 "Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account."
9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.”
10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised.

Hebrews 6:13
For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself

Hebrews 9:15
For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance

Hebrews 9:17
For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.

Luke 1:72-74
72 And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to Abraham our father,
74 To grant us that we, being rescued from the hand of our enemies, might serve Him without fear.

Luke 22:20
"This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood"

Free willians confuse that God establishes a contract with man in thoughts of their hearts.

Truly, God establishes a covenant with man according to the Word of God.

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Tong2020 said:
<<<In ancient days, all men were offered...
"One select group AGREED"...beginning of the LAW of Moses....and passed down:
EX 19:8 /Num 10:29 / Josh 1: :16 /Jer 42:20
"WE WILL DO ALL THAT YOU SAY"

God divided the men who Agreed from those who didn't "Hebrews and Gentiles."
Then God divided the TRIBES.>>>

Where did you get this in the Bible? I suggest you read about God and Abraham. You can start in Gen. 12.

<<<So here comes Jesus offering Salvation >>>

Where did you also get this in the Bible? Jesus did not come to offer salvation, but came to save His people. He is the Savior.

Tong
R4041

Gave you Scripture references.
Division began long before Abraham.

Jesus did not come to offer salvation, but came to save His people. He is the Savior.

LOL -

Yes. One of the things Jesus came to do was Offer Salvation...Jews first.
Maybe you didn't Notice...Many of the Jews rejected Jesus and His offering, and instead called for His Death.

John 6:51
Heb 10:10
Rom 9:10

No further discussion is necessary.

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Tong2020 said:
<<<Ya well God chose me>>>

God chose you. God chose you for what?

<<<Commonly AS IF you fall in love…>>>

You mentioned falling in love. I’d like to ask you regarding that in relation to God.

When did you fall in love with God?

How have you fallen in love with God?

Did you choose to fall in love with God or it just came and just happened?

Tong
R4042

God chose me with the high honor, to be His son.
Yes, I love the Lord God Almighty.
Yes, I chose Him to be my God.

No further discussion is necessary.

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Kermos said:
I'm not going to talk to a mirror, but based on what you wrote it sure sounds like you do because in your folly you claim to choose Jesus unto salvation despite the fact that Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you"

More of your nonsense.
Jesus chose, Jesus chose, Jesus chose....
No kidding...
Jesus chose 12...even one being a devil.
Jesus chose and called all men...
Even the Pharisees and Sanhedrins....
Even Gentiles...
And what...
they all chose Him?
Seems you are blind and can not see...
Numerous men rejected Him and still do.

Do you need to see a paper contract with peoples signature?
It doesn't exist. People CHOOSE Him by CONFESSING with their hearts thoughts and their mouth.
People also deny and reject Him..by ignoring Him, or also with their hearts thoughts and their mouth.

It matters none to me, IF you have HAVE or HAVE NOT freely CHOSEN the Lord, with "your' hearts thoughts and "your" mouths word....
What you do or do not do, is on you to bear the consequence.
But your repeated, repeated, repeated silly nonsense is nauseating and does nothing to Glorify God.
My brethren are those who Freely Chose the Lord with "their" hearts thoughts and "their" word....precisely How the Lord taught, IS HIS WAY, to be Saved and accounted WITH and IN Him.

Continuing repeating yourself over and over and over...will be ignored.

Kermos · Aug 17, 2021

Tong2020 said:
First, you have to show scriptures that supports your position that God offered you gifts for your acceptance or refusal. Else, your question to me is baseless.

Tong
R4034

Hello @Tong2020,

This is conceptually similar to what I have been conveying to you about "choose" in the creation account (Genesis 1-3).

When listening at the feet of the Word, we Christians do not read between the lines, that is, we do not need to add or subtract anything, rather we listen and are nourished and are filled by the Bread of Life.

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 17, 2021

Taken said:
Its NOT a new concept..
Secularly:
You decide what you WANT...
A loan...okay, "IF" you sign a document...
.................you are Ageeing!
Enroll in a school, "IF" you sign a document..
.................you are Agreeing!
Purchase a home, "IF" you sign a document..
.................you are Agreeing!

"IF" you ARE "WISE", you will FIRST READ, discover, KNOW, all the conditions and requirements YOU ARE AGREENING TO, BEFORE you sign the agreement document!

Spiritually:
SAME method...
* A wise man hears, learns, reads, decides "IF" he is willing and SURE to "AGREE" with the OFFER.
* A "heartfully" WILLING man..."AGREES" with HIS WORD" ...not signing a document!

Yep. Gods Works, Gods Offer....
AND....are you FORCED to DRINK Gods Offering...? No.

Jesus Offered His Disciples his Cup, and said DRINK.......IF.......you are able. <---- that is an offering, not a Force.

Do YOU make the CONTRACT....for a loan, for enrolling in school, for buying a home?
NO...the Bank MAKES the CONTRACT...the School MAKES the CONTRACT...the Seller MAKES the CONTRACT....
YOU simply have to AGREE to the CONTRACT, and DO SO, by signing your name.
AND....if YOU READ a "man-made" CONTRACT Carefully...
YOU are held accountable to fufilled YOUR agreement......EVEN WHEN...
A Bank, A School, A Seller...MAY DEFAULT, MAY Change the TERMS

A Covenant of God...IS a PROMISE, God WILL NOT "DEFAULT" on His PROMISE. His TERMS DO NOT CHANGE!

Your posted Scriptures, had nothing to do with TWO parties AGREEING.

Scripture teaches....
THE Offering is Gods Works.
The man is instructed to KNOW what Gods Offer is...
HEAR;
The man is instructed to BE SURE BEFORE he Chooses to Agree with Gods Offering.

2 Pet 1:
[10]....give diligence to make your calling and election sure

I Can'T SPEAK FOR YOU.
Nor can YOU Speak FOR ME.
Don't Agree with YOU.

By and through Gods Works, God Himself Offered me Salvation.
I Heard what God Offered.
I Learned HOW He taught to Accept His Offering.
I Freely Chose to ACCEPT His Offering.
I Called on the Lords NAME, to Notifiy HIM of MY heartfully assured word of Agreement.
And I TRUST, according to Gods Word... that "IF" I heartfully agreed to Accept His OFFERING...
"THEN" by and through Gods Word and Power, I would RECEIVE, once and forever, Gods Offered Gifts.

IF you have received Gods offered Gift of Salvation...I can not say....but appears doubtful ... since you could not plainly say, nor do you preach any semblance of HOW a man receives Gods Gift of Forgiveness, Salvation, Quickening, Sealing, Keeping according to God.

In your long post you cited one scripture, and that one scripture in context is about self examination such as fruit of the Spirit. Here is the FULL verse (but 2 Peter 1:1-11 needs to be read contiguously):

Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble

See that the word "practice" represents fruit of the Spirit.

And that scripture that you did quote you wickedly chopped.

In the balance of your post, you fail to cite scripture as well as you fail to quote scripture, so you express the ramblings of "the word of @Taken" and not the Word of God.

Returning to elaborate about your assertion that the relationship God established with man is an "Agreement".

You declared that God establishes an agreement (contract) with man choosing God unto man's salvation, yet no scripture supports your assertion.

The Word of God declares that God establishes a covenant with man by His word "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood" (Luke 22:20).

COMPARE AND CONTRAST "CONTRACT" AND "COVENANT"

CONTRACT:
(1) A two-party.contract is an agreement between two parties in which each party provides valuable consideration to the other party.
(2) This contract type is an exchange of treasure.
(3) This contract type represents mutual promise as well as mutual obligation.
(4) Both parties actively engage in this contract type.
(5) scriptural example of this contract type with regard to man's salvation: none.

COVENANT:
(1) A two-party covenant is a promise of valuable consideration by a first party to a second party (see Luke 22:20 below for scriptural application).
(2) This covenant type is a transfer of treasure (see Luke 1:72-74 below for scriptural application).
(3) This covenant type represents the first party promise as well as the first party's obligation (see Hebrews 6:13 below for scriptural application)
(4) The first party actively engages in this covenant type, and the second party passively receives in this covenant type (see Romans 4:8-10 below for scriptural application).
(5) scriptural example of this covenant type with regard to man's salvation: "For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption" (see Hebrews 9:15 below for scriptural application) and "a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives" (see Hebrews 9:15 below for scriptural application).

Romans 4:8-10
8 "Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account."
9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.”
10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised.

Hebrews 6:13
For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself

Hebrews 9:15
For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance

Hebrews 9:17
For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.

Luke 1:72-74
72 And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to Abraham our father,
74 To grant us that we, being rescued from the hand of our enemies, might serve Him without fear.

Luke 22:20
"This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood"

You are confused that God establishes a contract with man in thoughts of your heart.

Truly, God establishes a covenant with man according to the Word of God.

This post is a continuation of this post, and these posts are meant to be taken as a whole.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Kermos said:
I'm not going to talk to a mirror

When you speak for me, then speak for yourself...all that is required for that conversation is a mirror....since you are the one doing all the talking, from your own thoughts.

No need for you to tell me what I think or believe...I am quite capable of thinking and speaking for myself.

And any prudent person SHOULD KNOW, they are Not qualified to speak and TELL the other what they think and believe....especially when it is known they DO NOT AGREE!

MatthewG · Aug 17, 2021

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Yes the only commandment given by God was not to eat from the tree of knowledge and good and evil.

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Kermos said:
In your long post you cited one scripture, and that one scripture in context is about self examination such as fruit of the Spirit. Here is the FULL verse (but 2 Peter 1:1-11 needs to be read contiguously):

Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble

See that the word "practice" represents fruit of the Spirit.

And that scripture that you did quote you wickedly chopped.

Some people stay in a cocoon developement stage for eons, hearing knowledge, but never yet leaving that cocoon and going to a place of Spiritual understanding.
Telling and Repeating your Mindful understanding of "practice", like amateurs are taught to practice, practice, practice...is of zero interest to me.
I don't compare myself to men, BEGINNING to HEAR and BEGINNING to LEARN About the Lord.
I compare myself to men, WHO have ALREADY Heard, ALREADY Learned, ALREADY Freely CHOSE the Lord God Almighty, and Continue IN His Knowledge and SEEK after HIS Understanding.

Your understanding is of no interest to me.
Your accusations against me are juvenile.
I have zero obligation to copy, print, read, understand Scripture FOR YOU.

Bottom Line...
I freely make my choices.
I freely Chose the Lord God.
And apparently you don't and didn't.
Don't care what YOU DO or DO NOT DO.

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

MatthewG said:
Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Yes the only commandment given by God was not to eat from the tree of knowledge and good and evil.

Be forewarned.
Gnats buzz with the sole intent to irritate.

Kermos · Aug 17, 2021

Tong2020 said:
No, it’s clear whose words I was referring the figure as wells without water. Definitely not God’s words.

I will go then check out your post #725. Thanks.

Tong
R4037

@Tong2020, if you go back and look at the post then you should see a plethora of scripture in the post to which you referred to as "wells without water".

The post heads off with the citation of "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" (John 14:6).

This means that either you called Jesus' words of Christ being Life "wells without water" or you arrogantly called when I wrote your words are not life "wells without water".

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 · Aug 17, 2021

Kermos said:
Some free willians declare that God establishes an agreement (contract) with man choosing God unto man's salvation, yet no scripture supports such free-willian philosophy.

The Word of God declares that God establishes a covenant with man by His word "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood" (Luke 22:20).

COMPARE AND CONTRAST "CONTRACT" AND "COVENANT"

CONTRACT:
(1) A two-party.contract is an agreement between two parties in which each party provides valuable consideration to the other party.
(2) This contract type is an exchange of treasure.
(3) This contract type represents mutual promise as well as mutual obligation.
(4) Both parties actively engage in this contract type.
(5) scriptural example of this contract type with regard to man's salvation: none.

COVENANT:
(1) A two-party covenant is a promise of valuable consideration by a first party to a second party (see Luke 22:20 below for scriptural application).
(2) This covenant type is a transfer of treasure (see Luke 1:72-74 below for scriptural application).
(3) This covenant type represents the first party promise as well as the first party's obligation (see Hebrews 6:13 below for scriptural application)
(4) The first party actively engages in this covenant type, and the second party passively receives in this covenant type (see Romans 4:8-10 below for scriptural application).
(5) scriptural example of this covenant type with regard to man's salvation: "For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption" (see Hebrews 9:15 below for scriptural application) and "a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives" (see Hebrews 9:15 below for scriptural application).

Romans 4:8-10
8 "Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account."
9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.”
10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised.

Hebrews 6:13
For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself

Hebrews 9:15
For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance

Hebrews 9:17
For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.

Luke 1:72-74
72 And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to Abraham our father,
74 To grant us that we, being rescued from the hand of our enemies, might serve Him without fear.

Luke 22:20
"This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood"

Free willians confuse that God establishes a contract with man in thoughts of their hearts.

Truly, God establishes a covenant with man according to the Word of God.

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Man have a will. He was given freedom to make his choice. We are all living proof of that. However, this is not something that man could boast about. It is not some power given by God to man that others seems to think, a power that overrides the sovereignty of God over them. That is evil pride and is sin. It offends God. But equally, to deny having been given a will is likewise evil. For such is a lie, and offends God as well.

The matter of God’s salvation of fallen man is something that belongs only to God. He is sovereign. He gives mercy to whom He wills to have mercy, according to the counsel of His will and His divine nature.

Tong
R4043

Tong2020 · Aug 17, 2021

Taken said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<In ancient days, all men were offered...
"One select group AGREED"...beginning of the LAW of Moses....and passed down:
EX 19:8 /Num 10:29 / Josh 1: :16 /Jer 42:20
"WE WILL DO ALL THAT YOU SAY"

God divided the men who Agreed from those who didn't "Hebrews and Gentiles."
Then God divided the TRIBES.>>>

Where did you get this in the Bible? I suggest you read about God and Abraham. You can start in Gen. 12.

<<<So here comes Jesus offering Salvation >>>

Where did you also get this in the Bible? Jesus did not come to offer salvation, but came to save His people. He is the Savior.

Click to expand...

Gave you Scripture references.
Division began long before Abraham.

The scriptures you gave does not tell your story.

Taken said:
Jesus did not come to offer salvation, but came to save His people. He is the Savior.

Click to expand...

LOL -

Yes. One of the things Jesus came to do was Offer Salvation...Jews first.
Maybe you didn't Notice...Many of the Jews rejected Jesus and His offering, and instead called for His Death.

John 6:51
Heb 10:10
Rom 9:10

No further discussion is necessary.

According to scriptures, Jesus is the Seed of Abraham, the prophet God promised to Israel, their Messiah. He was not given to Israel to offer them salvation, but was given as their Messiah, their salvation, their Savior.

Tong
R4044

Tong2020 · Aug 17, 2021

Taken said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Ya well God chose me>>>

God chose you. God chose you for what?

<<<Commonly AS IF you fall in love…>>>

You mentioned falling in love. I’d like to ask you regarding that in relation to God.

When did you fall in love with God?

How have you fallen in love with God?

Did you choose to fall in love with God or it just came and just happened?

Click to expand...

God chose me with the high honor, to be His son.
Yes, I love the Lord God Almighty.
Yes, I chose Him to be my God.

No further discussion is necessary.

Not saying in any way shape or form that you were not chosen by God.

To the contrary I presume you were chosen. Chosen for salvation. And of chosen, then foreknow, predestined, called, justified, glorified. There is no reason for me to presume otherwise. For you profess to believe in God and Jesus Christ. And only God have the power to know and judge your heart, with absolute certainty and in all righteousness, not me nor any man for that matter.

Tong
R4044

Kermos · Aug 17, 2021

Tong2020 said:
Joshua 24:22 So Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen the Lord for yourselves, to serve Him.”

And they said, “We are witnesses!”

There it is. That clearly is a case of a choosing by the people of God for themselves to serve. That’s just the point there.

The people are NOT God, and the people are not God imparting the people with the ability to choose God, rather that is the people somewhat concurring with Joshua's words of “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves YHWH, to serve Him.” (Joshua 24:22).

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY ARE "WITNESSES AGAINST YOURSELVES", SO THEY TESTIFIED TO THE CONDEMNATION OF THEMSELVES.

When a person is a "witness for a defendant", then such a one is a proponent for the defendant; in other words, a witness for the defendant. This scenario outlines testimony for justification of the defendant.

When a person is a "witness against a defendant", then such a one is an opponent against the defendant; in other words, a witness against the defendant. This scenario outlines testimony for condemnation of the defendant.

The truth is there is no free will in the passage.

Tong2020 said:
Joshua 24:24 And the people said to Joshua, “The Lord our God we will serve, and His voice we will obey!”

25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and made for them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.

Clearly, verse 24 affirms what their choice was. And Joshua even made a covenant with the people to that effect.

Hmmmm, Joshua made a covenant with the people. That does not say God made a covenant with the people.

Moving along.

The people said "...We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God" (Joshua 24:18).

Joshua declared to the people in response "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins..." (Joshua 24:19).

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SERVE GOD.

You can't show that they chose God with God's blessing because scripture does not state such.

Tong2020 said:
Joshua 24:26 Then Joshua wrote these words in the Book of the Law of God. And he took a large stone, and set it up there under the oak that was by the sanctuary of the Lord. 27 And Joshua said to all the people, “Behold, this stone shall be a witness to us, for it has heard all the words of the Lord which He spoke to us. It shall therefore be a witness to you, lest you deny your God.”

A stone witness. Nevertheless, a witness to the choice they made.

Joshua 24:31 Israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua, who had known all the works of the Lord which He had done for Israel.

And so Israel, did as they have chosen, served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua, living up to their choice of God, to serve Him.

That’s scriptures.

Tong
R4038

Joshua 24:31 does not say that the people exclusively served God, in fact, the scripture continues on to reveal that the people in attendance at Joshua's exchange with the people recorded in Joshua 24:1-28 - that the people in attendance did not do as Joshua commanded them.

Regarding when Joshua said "You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him" (Joshua 24:22):

From the time that Joshua commanded "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23) until after Joshua's death (Joshua 24:29) and after Othneil (Judges 3:9) and after Ehud (Judges 3:15) and after Shamgar (Judges 3:31) and after Deborah and Barak (Judges 4-5) and after Gideon (Judges 6-8) and after Tola (Judges 10:1) and after Jair (Judges 10:3), it was not until after all that time that...

After all that time it is written "they put away the foreign gods from among them" (Judges 10:16), and there is no record of the Israelites putting away the foreign gods prior to that time.

Judges 10:16 contains the first occurrence of "foreign gods" after Joshua 24:23.

So there is no record of the people in attendance fulfilling Joshua's command of "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23), and non-performance of the command shows fruit contrary of their choice mentioned by Joshua.

Because the people in attendance did not "put away the foreign gods" (Joshua 24:23), then:

(1) those people proved the word of Joshua true that those people were not able to serve YHWH, "for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins..." (Joshua 24:19) and

(2) those people were not FULLY serving God or

(3) those people were partially serving God and

(4) those people were not loving YHWH God with all their heart and with all their soul and with all their strength (Deuteronomy 6:5) and

(5) a little leaven leavens the whole loaf so

(6) those people's choice is scripturally demonstrated to be invalid.

The truth is no scripture states that man was imparted free will.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Tong2020 said:
The scriptures you gave does not tell your story.

According to scriptures, Jesus is the Seed of Abraham, the prophet God promised to Israel, their Messiah. He was not given to Israel to offer them salvation, but was given as their Messiah, their salvation, their Savior.

Tong
R4044

I am not required to copy all related texts or read or study or understand for you.

I am well aware of WHO the SEED of GOD is, and WHO that SEED was offered to, given to, and continues to be offered and given and receive and how and why.

I bear no responsibility for what you know, do not know, believe, do not believe.

God created and made all things.
And from the beginning Much of Gods "MAKING" was DIVIDING things He created.
Jesus espressly Continued the DIVISION...

Luke 12
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

John.7
[43] So there was a division among the people because of him.

It's no different today.
Choose Christ Jesus' WAY, or be divided AWAY from him.

Taken · Aug 17, 2021

Tong2020 said:
Not saying in any way shape or form that you were not chosen by God.

To the contrary I presume you were chosen. Chosen for salvation. And of chosen, then foreknow, predestined, called, justified, glorified. There is no reason for me to presume otherwise. For you profess to believe in God and Jesus Christ. And only God have the power to know and judge your heart, with absolute certainty and in all righteousness, not me nor any man for that matter.

Tong
R4044

I was chosen...and I also chose.
And true. I can speak my choice.
You can observe (miminally) what I do.
You and I have no access to observe one anothers lifestyle.
Agree, Ultimate Judgement rests with the Lord. His evidence. His books. His glorification. His damnation. All expressly revealed.

Glory to God,
Taken

Tong2020 · Aug 17, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
First, you have to show scriptures that supports your position that God offered you gifts for your acceptance or refusal. Else, your question to me is baseless.

Click to expand...

Hello @Tong2020,

This is conceptually similar to what I have been conveying to you about "choose" in the creation account (Genesis 1-3).

If so, I think you are not effectively putting that across.

The ability of man to make choices is real. Man was given by God, his own will. He can choose according to the counsel of his will, in much everything that involves his life on earth, including things pertaining to the things of the Spirit of God. It’s just that man, in Adam that is, have disobeyed God’s commandment, in spite of the warning and disaster embodied in the commandment. That disobedience had brought man, judgment (Rom.5:18) resulting to condemnation. They became a slave of sin that rendered their will pertaining to the things of the Spirit of God to be restrained and “dead”. So that, the fallen man is “spiritually dead”, unable to choose God and things pertaining to the Spirit of God.

Tong
R4045

Kermos · Aug 17, 2021

@Taken, this is yet another time that you fouled up your post, and this response is to your post, so if you want to continue that series then you'll need to post your message properly.

YOU ARE ENTIRELY INCAPABLE OF CHOOSING JESUS UNTO SALVATION BECAUSE LORD JESUS SAYS "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) AS WELL AS "I CHOSE YOU OUT OF THE WORLD" (JOHN 15:19, INCLUDES SALVATION).

YOU TRY TO STEAL GOD'S EXCLUSIVE GLORY IN MAN'S SALVATION FOR IT IS WRITTEN "I WILL NOT GIVE MY GLORY TO ANOTHER" (ISAIAH 42:8).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 · Aug 17, 2021

Kermos said:
@Tong2020, if you go back and look at the post then you should see a plethora of scripture in the post to which you referred to as "wells without water".

Any body can quote scriptures. And with reference to those, they say what they say. So, I am not referring to the quoted scriptures as wells without water, but to the rest of what had been written, specially those which constitutes an attack to one’s person which does not have anything to do with the quoted scriptures.

If I quote the whole Bible, then make a claim or two, and you say that what I was saying is false and are like wells without water, would you be said to be saying that against the scriptures I quoted. I don’t think any good mannered and right thinking Christian would say that against the very scriptures he claim to believe as God’s words.

Tong
R4047

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads