The temple that Jesus is talking about

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,053
1,206
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
The New Jerusalem is called the holy city in Rev 21:2 & 10; and Rev 22:19.

The other city is called “Sodom and Egypt”: “And their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.” Rev 11:8

You will be aware that the Jerusalem which is spiritually called “Sodom and Egypt” is the same city which Paul said is in bondage with her children (Galatians 4:25).

The rest will take much longer to explain, but, honestly, I do believe that it is extremely important that very Christian is at least aware of this:

The Greek word for "temple" in Revelation 11:1-2 is naós, and what is extremely important to understand about this, is the use of this Greek word in the New Testament:

(i). It's used in reference to the bodies of individual Christians when Paul tells us our bodies are the temples of God (1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16).

(ii). It's used in reference to the church (Ephesians 2:21).

(iii). It's used multiple times in the Revelation in reference to the temple in heaven (Revelation 3:12; 7:15; 11:19; 14:15 & 17; 15:5-6 & 8; 16:1 & 17; 21:22).

There is absolutely no reason to assume that the word naós in Revelation 11:1-2 does not refer to the church:

And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all families, and tongues, and nations. Revelation 13:6-7.

Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple (naós) of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:4

Note: The Greek word used in 2 Thess 2:4, is naós.

THE TEARING OF THE VEIL BETWEEN THE HOLY PLACE AND HOLY OF HOLIES

The word naós is also the Greek word used in reference to the holy place and holy of holies of the temple in Jerusalem - but only until the time of the tearing of the veil between the holy place and holy of holies (not afterwards).

This is so important that it needs to be said again:

Until the verses in the gospels mentioning the tearing of the veil between the holy place and holy of holies (not afterwards), the Greek word naós is also used in reference to the holy place and holy of holies of the temple in Jerusalem.

It's also used in reference to Christ's body when He referred to His body as the Temple.

TEMPLE PRECINCTS

The other Greek word used in reference to the temple in Jerusalem (hierón), refers to the outer court and temple precincts, and this word continues to be the only word used in reference to the temple in Jerusalem following the crucifixion of Christ:

[Strongs Greek] G02411 ἱερόν hierón, hee-er-on'
The entire temple precincts, whereas G03485 (naós) denotes the central sanctuary itself:

2. [Strongs Greek] G03485 NAO/S ναός naós nah-os'
from a primary ναίω naíō, (to dwell); a fane, shrine, temple :--shrine, temple.

Whenever you read of Jesus entering into the temple in Jerusalem, the verse uses the Greek word hierón (Jesus was not considered a priest, and was not permitted into the naós).

But when you read of Zechariah the priest going into the temple to burn incense, the Greek word used is naós..

The Greek is 100% consistent with this distinction between the naós and the hierón throughout the New Testament, and the word naós completely stops being used in reference to the holy place and holy of holies of the temple in Jerusalem after the verses which describe the tearing of the veil. From then onward the word naós refers only to the church, the bodies of individual believers, and the temple in heaven, while hierón is the only word used in reference to the temple in Jerusalem after the crucifixion of Christ.
 
Last edited:

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,407
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There is "NOTHING" in Rev 21:2 & 10; and Rev 22:19 about Jerusalem or the New Jerusalem being called Sodom and Egypt. Jerusalem is the eternal city of God and Hais home for eternity with His family!!!PTL.
 

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,053
1,206
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
There is "NOTHING" in Rev 21:2 & 10; and Rev 22:19 about Jerusalem or the New Jerusalem being called Sodom and Egypt. Jerusalem is the eternal city of God and Hais home for eternity with His family!!!PTL.
Where the Lord was crucified. That city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. The Revelation does not call it the holy city.. The only city the Revelation calls the holy city is the New Jerusalem.
 

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,407
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The church will be long gone (raptured) before the new temple is built in Jerusalem and 1000 years before the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven!!! Do some Bible study!!!
 

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,053
1,206
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
No comment. It's not going to be much use arguing what you said since your own Bible study hasn't helped you to realize the church will not be raptured away before it experiences tribulation at the hand of the beast. You've been studying the Bible for years, no doubt, and it hasn't produced a real picture of the end times for you.
 

farouk

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2009
30,790
19,230
113
North America
The tribulation that the Lord Jesus mentions to His disciples in John 16.33 is different from that of Matthew 24 (and Luke 21) which is the unique Great Tribulation.
 

GISMYS_7

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
4,407
1,748
113
southern USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Stay behind on rapture if you want!!!But why???
Luke 221:36
Be always on the watch, and ""pray"" that you may be able to ""escape"" all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
1 Thessalonians 5:9
“For God hath ""not appointed us to wrath"", but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,”
 

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,053
1,206
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
The church will be long gone (raptured) before the new temple is built in Jerusalem and 1000 years before the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven!!! Do some Bible study!!!
Here's some Bible study for you on the words tribulation, God's wrath, and judgment. If you study the Bible, you will see no escape for Christians from tribulation or great tribulation:

TRIBULATION

Tribulation is merely a word which describes the experience of humans, whether they be Jews or Gentiles, believers or unbelievers; and there is no "once-off" experience of tribulation. A period of tribulation being experienced by any people may or may not be what they are experiencing as a result of God's wrath, for example, the tribulation that Christians experienced under the hand of Nero was not as a result of God's wrath coming upon them. The tribulation Israel experienced under the hand of Pharaoh in Egypt was not a result of God's wrath coming upon Israel.

The plagues were being experienced by the Egyptians, in much the same way as the seven last plagues will be experienced by those "who had the mark of the beast, and on those who worshiped his image". (Revelation 16:1-2)

The word tribulation (thlîpsis) is used in Matthew 13:21:
"But he has no root in himself, and is temporary. For when tribulation (thlîpsis) or persecution arises on account of the word, he immediately stumbles."

Also in Matthew 24:9:
"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation (thlîpsis) and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake."

It's also found in many other verses where it's referring to something that either would become, or had become the experience saints, for example in this verse:

John 16:33
"I have spoken these things to you so that you might have peace in Me. In the world you shall have tribulation (thlîpsis), but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world."

There is no "once-off" experience of tribulation. Any period in which Christians have experienced persecution (whether under Nero, or Christians in the former Byzantine Empire during periods of invasion by Islamic armies, etc), is a time of tribulation.

The same goes for any period during which unbelievers have experienced persecution at any time, for example the Jews since and following 70 A.D (pogroms, being expelled from countries, having their goods plundered, and of course, the worst of all - the one that took place during WWII).

However, with the exception of Romans 2:9 and 2 Thessalonians 1:6, every single reference to tribulation in the New Testament is talking about the tribulation of saints, those who believe in Christ (unless Matthew 24:21, which talks about great tribulation, is a third exception to the rule).

GREAT TRIBULATION

In the New Testament, there are periods in which the tribulation experienced by a particular group of people is so intense as to be called a great (mégas) tribulation (thlîpsis).

There are three times (only three times) in the New Testament where the Greek word mégas (great) is used as an adjective to describe the intensity of the thlîpsis (tribulation): Matthew 24:21; Revelation 2:22; and Revelation 7:14.

Revelation 7:14
"These are the ones who came out of great (mégas) tribulation (thlîpsis) and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb."

Revelation 2:22
"Behold, I am throwing her (the false prophetess Jezebel) into a bed, and those who commit adultery with her into great (mégas) tribulation (thlîpsis), unless they repent of their deeds."

Matthew 24:21
"for then shall be great (mégas) tribulation (thlîpsis), such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be."

The persecution of Christians under Nero would most certainly have been a time of great tribulation for Christians, but the New Testament is silent on that period of persecution.

Likewise, in the case of the Jews, A.D 70 would most certainly have been a period of great tribulation for the Jews (as was the tribulation Jews experienced during WWII), but only three times does the New Testament prophesy a coming great (mégas) tribulation (thlîpsis); but the two mentions of great tribulation in the Revelation are unambiguously and beyond dispute talking about a great tribulation as the experience of Christians.

Understanding the difference between tribulation and wrath is important, because referring to the seven bowls of wrath (which we read about in Revelation 16:19) as “the great tribulation”, results in faulty theology and faulty eschatology. Tribulation is the experience of the saints, whereas wrath is a judgment upon a tribe or tribes, or a nation, or nations.

TRIBULATION AS A RESULT OF A JUDGMENT WHEN THE WRATH OF GOD IS POURED OUT UPON A PEOPLE

Let’s go backwards in time, to the time Israel wandered in the wilderness for 40 years, immediately following their deliverance from Egypt:

The final plague that came upon Egypt which caused Pharaoh to let God's people go, was the death of the first-born in Egypt, and the Passover lamb is what saved Israel from this fate, which is remembered every year at the Feast of Passover by Jews to this day. Hebrews 3 talks about this period in Israel's history:

Hebrews 3:7-9 & 17-19
"Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, "Today if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness, when your fathers tempted Me, proved Me, and saw My works forty years."

17-19
"But with whom was He grieved forty years? Was it not with those who had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?" "And to whom did He swear that they should not enter into His rest, but to those who did not believe? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

With the exception of Joshua and Caleb, the entire generation that had been delivered out of Egypt perished in the wilderness, without ever entering the promised land.

The Passover lamb saved Israel from the death of the firstborn, and led to their deliverance from bondage in Egypt. They then wandered in the wilderness for 40 years in unbelief, and those who did not believe perished in the wilderness, without ever entering the promised land.

Jesus is the Passover Lamb of God who saved Israel from their sins and from the penalty of the broken Law, and there was a period of (about) 40 years following the crucifixion/resurrection of Christ until the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in A.D 70.

Luke's record of the eye-witness accounts of Jesus' prophecy regarding the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem implies that not only was A.D 70 a time of great tribulation for the Jews, it was a judgement, and it was a judgement because the wrath of God came upon them:

Luke 21:20-24
"And when you see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that its destruction has come. And let those in Judea flee to the mountains. And those in its midst, let them go out. And those in the open spaces, let them not go into her.

For these are the days of vengeance (ekdíkēsis), that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

But woe to those who are with child, and to those suckling in those days! For there shall be great distress (anánkē) in the land and wrath (orgḗ) on this people.

And they shall fall by the sword's edge. And shall be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the nations until the times of the nations is fulfilled."

1 ekdíkēsis: vindication, retribution:--(a-, re-)venge(-ance), punishment.

2 anánkē: constraint (literally or figuratively); by implication, distress:--distress, must needs, (of) necessity(-sary), needeth, needful.

3 orgḗ ("wrath"): properly, desire (as a reaching forth or excitement of the mind), i.e. (by analogy), violent passion (ire, or (justifiable) abhorrence); by implication punishment:--anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath.


In this sense the period between the crucifixion of Christ and A.D 70 could be referred to as "the last days of the house of Judah", the last days of the Kingdom of God being in the hands of the house of Judah:

Matthew 21:43
"Therefore I say to you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bringing out its fruits."

At any time that the wrath of God comes upon a people, it's a judgement. The judgement which came upon the house of Judah at that time can only be reversed in the following way:

Romans 11:23 & 28-29
"And those also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in. For God is able to graft them in again."

28-29
"Indeed as regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes. But as regards the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the free gifts and calling of God are without repentance."

Note that Paul does not say, "as regards the election, they are saved for the fathers' sakes". He says they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keraz

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2019
1,280
160
63
87
Joinville
Faith
Christian
Country
Brazil
Jerusalem will be trodden by Gentile nations by 42 months - Revelation 11:v.2
Jerusalem, also called spiritually Sodom and Egypt, will be trodden by Gentile nations in this last DECADE of the world of Devil.

The COURT, yeah, the COURT which is without the temple will be given unto the Gentiles, and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months -Rev.11:v.2- it because the Dragon will give to the Beast of sea- the Pope -the Papacy-, his Power, and his Throne in Jerusalem, and great Authority for 42 months.

Actually it is the FIRST HALF of the last week of Daniel 9:v.27 which WILL BE RULED BY THE BEAST OF SEA enthroned in Jerusalem-REV.13:v.2 and 5- this will be the Great Delusion in fulfilment of 2Thes.2:v.11-12.


I agree with part of what you say except that you have assumed that the holy city in Revelation 11:1-2 is referring to Jerusalem. There are two reasons why I believe you are wrong, and if you like, I will tell you why. Otherwise I will keep quiet.


Once you are asserting I am wrong about the interpretation of GOD's Word that was quoted, it would be interesting you had pointed why, no?
I work with the Word of GOD. If you use strange sources that add another "holy city" that does not fit in the book of Revelation, I would suggest not doing this according Revelation 22:v.18, but it is your choice.

The Word says "...the court which is without the TEMPLE leave out"..., and JESUS is not referring here to any other temple than the temple of GOD in Jerusalem, called holy city from ancient times, since the OT .

In the current time of Apocalypse, the holy city -Jerusalem- is called also of great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Rev. 11:v.8

Matt.4:v.5-6: - 5 Then the Devil taketh JESUS up into the holy city -Jerusalem-, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the TEMPLE, 6 And saith unto Him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down:...

Waiting your reply.


I did say why in the thread I started with the title "The temple that Jesus is talking about"


The rest will take much longer to explain, but, honestly, I do believe that it is extremely important that very Christian is at least aware of this:
The Greek word for "temple" in Revelation 11:1-2 is naós, and what is extremely important to understand about this, is the use of this Greek word in the New Testament:

Please, in my case the main point in discussion is not the temple, but specifically about the "holy city" that I wrote it be Jerusalem, but you said I am wrong, you say the holy city -Revelation 11:v.2- is not Jerusalem. Sorry, its you that are wrong, not me.

What prevails is the Word of GOD, not your opinion, or conjecture, imaginations, speculations, by which you try to twist Scriptures. Much much time before Greek sources to be used for trying adapt Scriptures to false interpretations about Jerusalem as you do here and elsewhere, the prophet Isaiah said: Isaiah 52:v.1-2:

1 - Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.

What prevail is the Word of GOD. Bible Scanned. No corruption found, do you understand?
 

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,053
1,206
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Once you are asserting I am wrong about the interpretation of GOD's Word that was quoted, it would be interesting you had pointed why, no?
I work with the Word of GOD. If you use strange sources that add another "holy city" that does not fit in the book of Revelation, I would suggest not doing this according Revelation 22:v.18, but it is your choice.

The Word says "...the court which is without the TEMPLE leave out"..., and JESUS is not referring here to any other temple than the temple of GOD in Jerusalem, called holy city from ancient times, since the OT .

In the current time of Apocalypse, the holy city -Jerusalem- is called also of great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Rev. 11:v.8

Matt.4:v.5-6: - 5 Then the Devil taketh JESUS up into the holy city -Jerusalem-, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the TEMPLE, 6 And saith unto Him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down:...

Waiting your reply.







Please, in my case the main point in discussion is not the temple, but specifically about the "holy city" that I wrote it be Jerusalem, but you said I am wrong, you say the holy city -Revelation 11:v.2- is not Jerusalem. Sorry, its you that are wrong, not me.

What prevails is the Word of GOD, not your opinion, or conjecture, imaginations, speculations, by which you try to twist Scriptures. Much much time before Greek sources to be used for trying adapt Scriptures to false interpretations about Jerusalem as you do here and elsewhere, the prophet Isaiah said: Isaiah 52:v.1-2:

1 - Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.

What prevail is the Word of GOD. Bible Scanned. No corruption found, do you understand?
Sorry mate, but rudeness still does not make your interpretation of Revelation's holy city true. I gave you the verses where the Revelation refers to the New Jerusalem as the holy city. In Revelation 11 the Revelation would hardly call Jerusalem on earth both the holy city and "Sodom and Egypt" in the same passage, when elsewhere it calls only the New Jerusalem the holy city.

The word holy means to be set apart, to be sanctified. Jerusalem on the earth is not holy (it will never be called holy again unless the vasy majority of its citizens repent of their unbelief in Jesus and come to faith in their Messiah).

In the Revelation, the New Jerusalem is called the holy city three other times (Revelation 21:2 & 10; and Revelation 22:19).

Revelation 11 would hardly call Jerusalem on earth both the holy city and "Sodom and Egypt" in the same passage, when elsewhere it calls only the New Jerusalem the holy city.

Rudeness cannot and does not make "anything and everything" that you think you know, true.
 
Last edited:

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2019
1,280
160
63
87
Joinville
Faith
Christian
Country
Brazil
Sorry mate, but rudeness still does not make your interpretation of Revelation's holy city true. I gave you the verses where the Revelation refers to the New Jerusalem as the holy city. In Revelation 11 the Revelation would hardly call Jerusalem on earth both the holy city and "Sodom and Egypt" in the same passage, when elsewhere it calls only the New Jerusalem the holy city.

The word holy means to be set apart, to be sanctified. Jerusalem on the earth is not holy (it will never be called holy again unless the vasy majority of its citizens repent of their unbelief in Jesus and come to faith in their Messiah).

In the Revelation, the New Jerusalem is called the holy city three other times (Revelation 21:2 & 10; and Revelation 22:19).

Revelation 11 would hardly call Jerusalem on earth both the holy city and "Sodom and Egypt" in the same passage, when elsewhere it calls only the New Jerusalem the holy city.

Rudeness cannot and does not make "anything and everything" that you think you know, true.


What prevails is the Word of GOD said by the prophet Isaiah, not your opinion, or conjecture, imaginations, speculations, by which you try to twist Scriptures. Much much time before Greek sources to be used for trying adapt Scriptures to false interpretations about Jerusalem as you do here and elsewhere, the prophet Isaiah said: Isaiah 52:v.1-2KJV:

1 - Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city:

Isaiah 52:v.1 - Complete Jewish Bible
Awake! Awake, Tziyon!
Clothe yourself with your strength!
Dress in your splendid garments,
Yerushalayim, the holy city!

What prevails is the Word of GOD said by the prophet Isaiah, the Word is GOD.
 

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,053
1,206
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
What prevails is the Word of GOD said by the prophet Isaiah, not your opinion, or conjecture, imaginations, speculations, by which you try to twist Scriptures. Much much time before Greek sources to be used for trying adapt Scriptures to false interpretations about Jerusalem as you do here and elsewhere, the prophet Isaiah said: Isaiah 52:v.1-2KJV:

1 - Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city:

Isaiah 52:v.1 - Complete Jewish Bible
Awake! Awake, Tziyon!
Clothe yourself with your strength!
Dress in your splendid garments,
Yerushalayim, the holy city!

What prevails is the Word of GOD said by the prophet Isaiah, the Word is GOD.
If it hurts, shout at the one who said it and accuse him of twisting the scriptures away from what suits your opinions, conjectures, imaginations, & speculations.

I see it's really upset you.

Oh well. Maybe you will one day be embarassed by your rudeness. I don't care about the rest (about the fact that you see things differently). Different interpretations of the prophetic books are as old as the Hebrew nation. Even the apostles were confused for a while.
 
Last edited:

Oseas

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2019
1,280
160
63
87
Joinville
Faith
Christian
Country
Brazil
Oh no, you are wrong once more and as always are. It's impossible you hurt and upset me through your words and lies you spread mainly in this Christian site; I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, understand? The problem in discussion is not only the difference of interpretation, but the devilish arguments twisting the Holy Scriptures and deceive if possible even the elects. By the way, no lie is of the Truth.

GOD's Word is Truth , it's a shield wherewith I am able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

Your reply, has only showed unto all how much your spirit get tormented with GOD's Truth and will be more tormented yet henceforwards.


What prevails is the Word of GOD said by the prophet Isaiah: Isaiah 52:v.1-Complete Jewish Bible

Isaiah 52:v.1 - Complete Jewish Bible
Awake! Awake, Tziyon!
Clothe yourself with your strength!
Dress in your splendid garments,
Yerushalayim, the holy city!

1-Awake,awake;put on thy strength,O Zion;put on thy beautiful garments,O Jerusalem,the holy city:Is.52:1-KJV
What prevails is the Word of GOD said by the prophet Isaiah, the Word is GOD.
 
Last edited: