Sola Scriptura

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Grailhunter

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Scripture...inspired but not dictated. Christ is the Word....the New Testament is man's documentation of that. Men make mistakes.

And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Face to face dictation.

Why do unbelievers make judgment about Scripture? What's the point? It's not like they believe it as dictated from God or something.

@robert derrick
I am a believer but I seek truth.
I do believe that God spoke to the Israelites and Moses. But I am not a Jew, so most of it is about what happened before Christianity and most does not pertain to Christians.
But I would say that a lot of the Law was face to face dictation. I was referring to Christianity earlier.
 
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David in NJ

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I was really referring to the fact on earth that as Paul says there is a difference between Jews, Gentiles and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32); of course, the Throne of God is eternally settled.

Difference only in God's Plan for: the Word became flesh = Immanuel = God with us.

God's Church began in the Garden when He created Adam and Eve.
 

BreadOfLife

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Scripture...inspired but not dictated. Christ is the Word....the New Testament is man's documentation of that. Men make mistakes.

Sola Scriptura is to put our trust only in God and His Word, which is written by His prophets and apostles in one book and translated for us all to read for ourselves, to know of a certain, what God has spoken to us in the world for our faith, salvation, edification, and justification with Him.

And as the Scripture says, we do not put our trust in men, but only in that teaching by men confirmed as true by Scripture.

Scripture never tells us to put our trust in any man, nor in ourselves, nor even in any of God's prophets and apostles, and especially not in 'our leaders'. We are to obey them that bring Scripture of truth and true reasoning of Scripture, because the rule over us they bring is that of God and His Word.

Why then do those who reject Sola Scriptura on the basis of all men are flawed, which is true, and so none of 'Scripture' can be trusted as true on it's own, having been inspired of God, but no doubt written in flawed manner: i.e. not 'dictated' to them our of God's own mouth.

But then they proceed to put their trust in other traditions, and 'their leaders' that pass on those traditions not found in 'flawed' Scripture. And they never even question those traditions, nor those leaders as flawed. So much so, that to even suggest they should be judged by Scripture is heresy against their not-so-flawed leaders.

They won't put their trust in 'flawed' Scriptures, because the writers were flawed, but they do put their trust in unflawable traditions and leaders that teach them in unflawing manner?

Rejecting Sola Scriptura is to shut the door to the truth of God, which no man should shut, and to open the door to cultish idolatry in other things than Scripture, which no man should open. (Rev 3:8)
YOU need to show me where Scripture says that the WRITTEN Word is the ONLY place where God's Word exists.

As I have educated you before - Scripture itself -explains that God's Word is NOT limited by what is written . . .
2 Thess. 2:15

"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

Luke 10:16
Whoever LISTENS to YOU LISTENS ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

John 21:25
Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

So far - you have FAILED to show where Scripture teaches "Scripture ALONE".
I wonder WHY that is . . .. .
 

BreadOfLife

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An Apologetic Sheepdog

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When you can actually refute anything I've said - be my guest.
Until then - you're just another ignorant bag of hot wind.

Come up with some new material and stop whining. Show me any single point you have made that hasn't been refuted?

And this coming from a drone who follows a marxist wearing man jammies because you cant form or find an independent thought.

Ummmm, if you did - then you wouldn't make such asinine claims.
Let me know when you have a grown-up response . . .

Look at your own juvenile conduct before you worry about the speck of mine. You still waffle in circles saying nothing
 

BreadOfLife

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Your finally right on "God not being the Author of confusion" now obey Him and get yourself out of the prostitutes house.

Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues..."
Another empty and impotent remark - and STILL no refutation of anything I've said.

Good job . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Come up with some new material and stop whining. Show me any single point you have made that hasn't been refuted?
And this coming from a drone who follows a marxist wearing man jammies because you cant form or find an independent thought.
Look at your own juvenile conduct before you worry about the speck of mine. You still waffle in circles saying nothing
Like I said before - go back and READ the posts.

I have shown that Sola Scriptura is an UNBIBLICAL, self-refuting doctrine - and have proven it using the very Scriptures YOU guys purport to be our "SOLE" Authority.

I have proven that Christ's CHURCH - and not Scripture is our final earthly Authority - again, according to the very Scriptures YOU guys purport to be our "SOLE" Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-16, John 20:21-23).

Finally - I have PROVEN that the Canon of the NT itself is a Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church - and NOT ordained by Scripture alone.

YOUR turn, Einstein.
Refute ANY of that.
 

An Apologetic Sheepdog

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I have shown that Sola Scriptura is an UNBIBLICAL, self-refuting doctrine - and have proven it using the very Scriptures YOU guys purport to be our "SOLE" Authority.

You have done nothing but create a straw man argument and take it apart. This has been pointed out numerous times and you selectively ignore it because of what it exposes about you.

I have proven that Christ's CHURCH - and not Scripture is our final earthly Authority - again, according to the very Scriptures YOU guys purport to be our "SOLE" Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-16, John 20:21-23).

No, you delude yourself with your RCC dogma and misapplication of scripture as also has been pointed out before.

Finally - I have PROVEN that the Canon of the NT itself is a Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church - and NOT ordained by Scripture alone.

You have lost your mind. You have done nothing of the sort.

YOUR turn, Einstein.
Refute ANY of that.

I already have and the fact that you and your brood are incessant megalomaniac narcissists with delusions of godhood in a perpetual state of denial doesnt change that simple fact.
 
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David in NJ

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You do realize that the word became flesh, not God, right?

Also, the word of God becomes flesh with every prophet.

wrangler - stay away from the BS lies.
The word of God was spoken through men of God as the Spirit moved them - PERIOD

There is only one IMMANUEL = the Lord Jesus Christ = God with us, the Word that was God from the beginning.
 

BreadOfLife

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You have done nothing but create a straw man argument and take it apart. This has been pointed out numerous times and you selectively ignore it because of what it exposes about you.

No, you delude yourself with your RCC dogma and misapplication of scripture as also has been pointed out before.

You have lost your mind. You have done nothing of the sort.

I already have and the fact that you and your brood are incessant megalomaniac narcissists with delusions of godhood in a perpetual state of denial doesnt change that simple fact.
I've read your idiotic posts where you claim "no proof" has been shown when it absolutely has.
Nonetheless - since you and I just started our conversation - I will repost my evidence so that YOU will be exposed for lying when you claim later that I "provided nothing" . . .

As to the Canon of the New Testament being a CATHOLIC Tradition - this is a matter of history, so if you want to refute these facts - then bring YOUR evidence to the contrary.
The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified – ALL 73 (not 66) Books.
- 11 years after that, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).
- 4 years later, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

As to Church Authority - I already gave you the Scripture verses.

The Catholic Church goes ALL the way back to the Apostles - as we see in the writings of Ignatius, 1st century Bishop of Antioch, ordained by Peter and disciple of the Apostle John:.
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

Gee - WHICH Church does that sound like??

As to the Scripture verses regarding Supreme Church authority - here are a few of them that I previously showed you:
Matt 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."


Now - refute that, Einstein . . .
 

amigo de christo

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David got that one right .
Immanuel means IMMANUEL . And it was the name given unto JESUS .
Everlasting God , everlasting father , shall he be called . Yet this same one , according to the scripture in ISSIAH
is also BORN OF A VIRGIN . NOW WHO does that fit . exactly . In the beginning was the WORD and the Word was with GOD
and The word is God . That cant be dimissed just cause folks dont understand it .
Now , Let all that draws breath , leap up and praise the glorious Lord .
 

amigo de christo

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Wrangler, i love you but you just get me laughing so hard - thanks
The word of GOD dont become flesh with every prophet . Yeah dont buy that line my friend .
If any is a prophet or spiritual , they simply speak BY THE SPIRIT the WORDS of GOD .
ONLY JESUS IS THE ACTUAL WORD OF GOD and that WORD BECAME FLESH . YES INDEED .
 

An Apologetic Sheepdog

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Now - refute that, Einstein . . .

OK, by the numbers ( and truncated)

As to the Canon of the New Testament being a CATHOLIC Tradition - this is a matter of history, so if you want to refute these facts - then bring YOUR evidence to the contrary.
The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified – ALL 73 (not 66) Books.
- 11 years after that, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).
- 4 years later, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

Historically and by doctrine and practice. This claim by the RCC is only true to a point and on the surface. it is highly revisionist because those are not the same churches the RCC is since Trent era. Additionally these were not universal councils.

Additionally, the writings as an assembly existed independently of any RCC involvement (Codex Sinaiticus and Alexandrainus for some more well known) and the OT long assembled even before Christ.

Those are only partially correct and dont touch other equally valid sources. At best the "pre" RCC ( while there was some legitimacy) assembles one volume of what has become the bible of today but the RCC has never been a sole possessor, author or final authority of any of it regardless of what its own unchecked and patently false revisionist history tries to sell. It runs a close parallel to when another 'rome' tried to rewrite its history and make facts "fit' the state narrative last century.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

For the RCC yes but that time that organization doctrinally has gone away from the tenets of scripture that it doesn't even merit mention. The evils of the RCC are well documented historically also.

As to Church Authority - I already gave you the Scripture verses.

They were refuted and all you did is regurgitate. Your church has no authority.

See, arrogance with selective revisionism and an overactive imagination does not the truth make.
 

robert derrick

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Those who reject Sola Scripture, but allow for traditions an dcommandments of men that Scripture does not confirm, put their trust in men rather than in God only.

Sola Scriptura is necessary for trusting in God only.

God's Word is the only sure Word to believe and obey as God, and Scripture is the only sure Word of God written for us to hear and believe.

Sola Scriptura is God only: in trust and worship and service.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey.

What we hear and obey, is what we give ourselves servants to, and if it is not of God, but of men only, then it is not God, but men we obey to serve. Sola Scriptura is the surety that the word and commandment and tradition and ordinance we obey is from God, and our service is to God indeed.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Those who reject Sola Scriptura and are taught by their masters to be lovers of their own traditions do not serve the Lord God, but the devil.

Yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Why do them that profess God kill them that are of God, thinking to serve God?

Because they are not Sola Scriptura and have thoroughly given themselves over the traditions of men and service to the devil.

The devil hates Sola Scriptura.
 
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robert derrick

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But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Peter learned later to be Sola Scriptura.
 
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robert derrick

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For men shall be lovers of their own selves... more than lovers of God.

Them that reject Sola Scriptura are lovers of their own traditions of men more than lovers of God's Word.

Has a rejector of Sola Scriptura ever met a tradition of men taught for doctrine of God that they didn't love?

Are there any such traditions of men they can name, that they don't agree with?
 
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