“SHALL HE FIND THE FAITH IN THE EARTH?”

Alethos · Mar 17, 2011

“SHALL HE FIND THE FAITH IN THE EARTH?” Luke 18:8

Jesus coming appears to be at a time of very small faith, in that Jesus Christ makes it a question of whether he shall find “the faith” upon the earth. We know there will be an elect people in the earth at his coming. They will be people represented by those whose prayers plead for the return of Jesus Christ to the earth. We will find ourselves begging the Father to release him from His side. There will be a poor, afflicted remnant, who like Lot and Noah, shall plead for their own lives and the destruction of apostate religions (Names and blasphemy - Rev 17:3) which fills the whole world.

The ministry of Jesus Christ spoke to these latter day times. His recognition of a small faith, for us, is grim, and encourages us to “increase” our trumpeting to “Hold Fast” and to “Pray without ceasing” as we see the day approaching (Heb 10:25).

Here in Luke 18:8 the Master is teaching us about a “particular” faith which “may” be absent in the world at his coming; at the very least diminishing from his sight.

We see the individual’s faith “must” be persistent, as that of the widow (Luke 18:42) and those believers also spoken of in Revelation 13:10, which shows the patience and the faith of the saints during a time of great affliction. Of course these believers were persecuted by those who themselves thought righteous.

The record clearly presents a people who were confident in their own righteousness and looked down on others, even the Master himself. This should alarm us of a trap easily ensnared; for who among us thinks they are right? And therefore righteous?

We understand this ill spirit should not be spoken among the true brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ, nor was it so in the parable that follows (Luke 18:10-14).

Who do we relate to in this parable (Luke 18:10-14)? Well, the publican, of course. But is this us in these last days?

Prov 30:12

Isa 65:2-5

A prideful approach to our preaching and teaching is likened to the Pharisee who was self-centered and conceited. His morality was based on negatives. His worship was based on externals.

He valued his religious systems (Church) above the divine truth and all its moral virtues.

My friends, pride is subtle, that if we are not careful we'll be proud of our humility. When this takes place all our goodness becomes deceit and hypocrisy. Our virtues become vices and we take to ourselves slippery paths, which will lead to utter destruction.

By contrast the Word working upon the “inner man” can create in us a contrite and broken spirit, which at times will cause us to “beat our chest”, not out of show, but the pressing need for forgiveness and redemption.

Jesus Christ is the man of sorrows (Isa 53:3) and we follow in like manner, beating our breasts in humility. We are like lepers looking towards him from a distance (Luke 17:12) and not able to look up because we know the Lord is near to those with a crushed spirit (Psalm 34:18).

It is only then we shall be ready to receive the Kingdom like little children.

God Bless you all

Alethos

burningfire · Mar 17, 2011

That was pretty humbling to wake up to this morning. Gets one on the right track again. Our pastor spoke about this topic the other week. Took a slightly different approach, but was in the same ballpark.

jiggyfly · Mar 17, 2011

I like this kind of thought provoking posts and here is a scripture to add.
For when we place our faith in Christ Jesus, it makes no difference to God whether we are circumcised or not circumcised. What is important is faith expressing itself in love. Gal. 5:6

veteran · Mar 19, 2011

Luke 18:7-8
7 And shall not God avenge His own elect, which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them?
8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?
(KJV)

Look carefully, we are to rightly divide between that first parable of the unjust judge and then the next parable given to certain ones that trusted in themselves that they were righteous (note back in Luke 17:20 there were Pharisees present during our Lord's teaching there).

In the first parable, the "widow" represents God's elect. Our Lord then said to hear what the unjust judge said. The unjust judge would judge not because of righteousness and fear of God (nor Faith), but because of not wanting to keep hearing the widow's continual pleading (a marker for the times of the end maybe?)

There's a reason why our Lord Jesus used the "widow" as a symbol for His elect in that first parable. It's connected to the idea elsewhere that His saints are to remain as chaste virgins in waiting for His coming (2 Cor.11). It's from the barren and 'widowhood' message in Isaiah 54 about those whose wombs never bare (blessed are the barren). Here's the NT version...

Luke 23:27-31
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us.'
31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?"
(KJV)

Jesus tells those who wept for Him when He was on the way to be crucified to weep for theirselves and for their children (especially in the last days), for the time would come when those will say, "Blessed are the barren, and the womb's that never bare...". But that's not about them remaining barren, but His elect they will speak of at His return.

Those are the deceived that will be saying that about Christ's faithful who will remain barren, waiting for Christ's return. Among His elect is where Faith will still be found on earth when He returns for the spiritual marriage.

Now the heart of the question about that is, just what is it that will cause the deceived to not remain faithful in waiting for Christ's return? That's where our Lord's and His Apostles Message about the coming false one becomes a part of this, the ultimate cause of the coming 'apostasia' of bowing in false worship to another in place of our Lord Jesus. That's why the harlot will say, "...I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow."(Rev.18:7)

Why will the harlot say she is no widow, and sits as a queen? A queen is married to a king, so who is her king? And Who is our King, and WHEN are Christ's virgins to go to the wedding?

The labels and symbols our Lord Jesus gave in His parables and in prophecy are very important, and most of them were first given in the Old Testament prophets. A lot of them are specifically for the generation on earth of His coming return. Remaining spiritually barren is about Christ's elect that will remain faithful waiting for His return. But those not remaining faithful in that He will find them already spiritually married to the "another Jesus". So the 'barren', 'widow', and 'chaste virgin' symbols are all connected in pointing to His elect.

But those not found barren, but with child instead, will be as harlots, no longer widows, no longer virgins, but married already, all in the spiritual worship sense; those are about the deceived, even of believers on Him that fall away to that. With those our Lord will not still find Faith among them when He comes.

jiggyfly · Mar 20, 2011

veteran said:
Luke 18:7-8
7 And shall not God avenge His own elect, which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them?
8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?
(KJV)

Look carefully, we are to rightly divide between that first parable of the unjust judge and then the next parable given to certain ones that trusted in themselves that they were righteous (note back in Luke 17:20 there were Pharisees present during our Lord's teaching there).

In the first parable, the "widow" represents God's elect. Our Lord then said to hear what the unjust judge said. The unjust judge would judge not because of righteousness and fear of God (nor Faith), but because of not wanting to keep hearing the widow's continual pleading (a marker for the times of the end maybe?)

There's a reason why our Lord Jesus used the "widow" as a symbol for His elect in that first parable. It's connected to the idea elsewhere that His saints are to remain as chaste virgins in waiting for His coming (2 Cor.11). It's from the barren and 'widowhood' message in Isaiah 54 about those whose wombs never bare (blessed are the barren). Here's the NT version...

Luke 23:27-31
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us.'
31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?"
(KJV)

Jesus tells those who wept for Him when He was on the way to be crucified to weep for theirselves and for their children (especially in the last days), for the time would come when those will say, "Blessed are the barren, and the womb's that never bare...". But that's not about them remaining barren, but His elect they will speak of at His return.

Those are the deceived that will be saying that about Christ's faithful who will remain barren, waiting for Christ's return. Among His elect is where Faith will still be found on earth when He returns for the spiritual marriage.

Now the heart of the question about that is, just what is it that will cause the deceived to not remain faithful in waiting for Christ's return? That's where our Lord's and His Apostles Message about the coming false one becomes a part of this, the ultimate cause of the coming 'apostasia' of bowing in false worship to another in place of our Lord Jesus. That's why the harlot will say, "...I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow."(Rev.18:7)

Why will the harlot say she is no widow, and sits as a queen? A queen is married to a king, so who is her king? And Who is our King, and WHEN are Christ's virgins to go to the wedding?

The labels and symbols our Lord Jesus gave in His parables and in prophecy are very important, and most of them were first given in the Old Testament prophets. A lot of them are specifically for the generation on earth of His coming return. Remaining spiritually barren is about Christ's elect that will remain faithful waiting for His return. But those not remaining faithful in that He will find them already spiritually married to the "another Jesus". So the 'barren', 'widow', and 'chaste virgin' symbols are all connected in pointing to His elect.

But those not found barren, but with child instead, will be as harlots, no longer widows, no longer virgins, but married already, all in the spiritual worship sense; those are about the deceived, even of believers on Him that fall away to that. With those our Lord will not still find Faith among them when He comes.

Very good post Veteran, easy to read, nice layout and very interesting point. Thanks for posting it.

Alethos · Mar 21, 2011

jiggyfly said:
Very good post Veteran, easy to read, nice layout and very interesting point. Thanks for posting it.

I concur with jiggyfly regarding your post. I would liked to see you continue...

The system you mentioned is undoubtedly embodied in the mystical Babylon of Rev 18

"With a mighty voice he shouted: 'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!' " (Rev 18:2).

The great conflict of the scriptures and an age long battle has been between the two cities. These two cities have at times interchange their positions, sometime Jerusalem has been manifested as Babylon and Babylon Jerusalem. But the final conflict will see these two cities in total opposition and one will come out with eternal Glory.

Babylon is the apostate system represented by an apostate city who has apostate leader (man of sin). It was in the beginning that Babel (Babylon) was the first organised rebellion against God. And in the future the Mystical Babylon will also share the same spirit.

The Babylon of Rev 18:12 clearly portrayed as being wealthy with ceremonial pomp i.e cargo of gold, silver, jewels, pearls, fine linen, purple cloth, silk, scarlet cloth, all kinds of scented wood, all kinds of articles of ivory, all kinds of articles of costly wood, bronze, iron and marble...

It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see the splendor and ritual of a temple? Or what else can it be?

Did you know Babylon was also called Su-anna "the holy city". And yet "the holy city" is Jerusalem, which Rev infers she is a fake Zion offering the hope of salvation, but actually full of hypocrisy and dead men’s bones.

Unfulfilled Prophecy:

I believe Isa 13:19 is still unfulfilled "Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms, the glory of the Babylonians' pride, will be overthrown by God like Sodom and Gomorrah"

What’s interesting about this verse is Babylon was never suddenly overthrown, like Sodom and Gomorrah. As per another discussion thread it was conquered by the Medes and Persians and fell into decline, but it was not violently destroyed.

This destruction has been reserved for its end as per Rev 18.

The Man of Sin must come from this Mystical City Babylon. The danger with Rev 18 is some try to spiritualise the chapter by not suggesting this Babylon system is not visible in the earth today.

I would refute this notion that Babylon the stump which was left to grow is visible today in the earth.

The judgements awaiting this system is indeed as spoken by the Lord himself:- Rev 18:21

A large millstone is awaiting her because this system as Verteran rightly states will persecute the true remnant and God will hear the cry’s of those children how suffer under its many afflictions. Matt 18:6

God & Jesus Christ will pay her back double - which is BTW the exact punishment proclaimed against apostate Jerusalem.

But this system is not within Jewry now it’s Christians

Alethos

veteran · Mar 22, 2011

Sorry, but the headquarters for endtime Babylon is going to be earthly Jerusalem. That's the "great city" of Rev.17. It's where God's two witnesses will appear and prophesy against. The orthodox Jews who plan to build another temple and start up Old Covenant sacrifices in it again will be a major part of the deception.

When our Heavenly Father gave those symbolic metaphors like the widow, the barren, virgins, etc., its purpose centers around the idea of staying faithful to Him through His Son, especially for the last generation. The one who says she sits a queen and will see no sorrow is about being spiritually married to the wrong one. It's about the apostates who will be deceived and will bow in worship to the wrong one, in Jerusalem.

The major difference is, those apostates will think they are being faithful to God, because of the one who is coming to proclaim himself as God they will actually think and believe is God. They won't understand who that false one really is until Christ Jesus returns. Who would that have to be in order for all religions on earth to accept him as God? What sole entity could wield such deceptive power on earth to make the majority believe he is God?

Because God's elect will refuse to bow to that coming false one, they will be a minority, and the whole world will hate them for refusing. Since the deceived will think God has come, they will think the faithful saints who still await Christ's return are the real apostates. This is how the elect will be betrayed by brother, the father the son, mother against the daughter, by kinsfolk, by friends, with some of them causing the elect to be delivered up to death.

Some of that mindset is already beginning today against faithful Christians who stay in God's Word and refuse the ecumnemical joining of all religions, and the many false teachings that have crept into today's Churches that are designed to turn them into centers for world socialism.

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