Can the Soul Die?

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BroRando

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What does John 1 mean then?

Jn 1:1c is rendered in the feminine sense relating to Christ divinity. Words like Deity, Divine, Wisdom, Beginning are all feminine nouns that describe Christ's Divinity as a Divine Creation.

An Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible commentary notes: "This second theos could also be translated 'divine' as the construction indicates "a qualitative sense for theos". The Word is not God in the sense that he is the same person as the theos mentioned in 1:1a; he is not God the Father."

Strong's Concordance
theotés: deity
Original Word: θεότης, ητος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theotés
Phonetic Spelling: (theh-ot'-ace)
Short Definition: deity, Godhead
Definition: deity, Godhead.

Jesus was brought forth and begotten by the God (ton theon) as the Beginning of Creation. (Revelation 3:14)

Words like Image and Grace are also feminine nouns that describe Jesus Christ (Deity)... Since Jesus was Begotten, he was Begotten by some else who already existed. (Psalms 83:18)
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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That there is a whole lot of watchtower witchcraft wresting of scripture to your own destruction. Jesus is God the Son, co-eternal with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.

You need the watchtower to tell you what the Bible says; I have the Holy Spirit who helps me discern the truth. My advice to you: get out of that cult and be deprogrammed now. The end is near.
The thing about this post is this source
wasn't from the watchtower, it was from another source. But it goes to show that it doesn't matter to you what the truth is you're not going to believe anything except what you been brainwashed to believe.
 

LTJMP14

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The thing about this post is this source
wasn't from the watchtower, it was from another source. But it goes to show that it doesn't matter to you what the truth is you're not going to believe anything except what you been brainwashed to believe.
Are you as a Jehovah’s Witness allowed to believe the Bible when it disagrees with something you read in the Watchtower?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Are you as a Jehovah’s Witness allowed to believe the Bible when it disagrees with something you read in the Watchtower?[/QUOTE\]

If you're talking about what you or what someone else believes is in the Bible, meaning you or someone else's interpretation of a scripture, it will have nothing to do with the watchtower why I won't believe it to be true. Quiet frankly I honestly don't think any religious organization or church that teaches such doctrines as the Trinity, the hellfire doctrine and the immortality of the Soul to name a few to know the truth which is in the scriptures. Now I know you believe that I don't know the truth which is in the scriptures just as I don't believe you know the truth that's in the scriptures. What I do is, I make the same choice you do which is, that I choose to believe who the true church is, the one that has Jesus as it's head and has God's Holy Spirit. Do we disagree with who that true church is, yes. Now you ask, am I allowed to believe the Bible if the Bible says something that disagrees with the watchtower.
Well Jehovah witnesses or the watchtower has not claimed that the explanations in any publication are infallible. But like Joseph of old, they do believe as he believed: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8) So at the same time, Jehovah witnesses firmly believe that the explanations set forth in the watchtower magazine and other literature harmonize with the Bible in its entirety. So I don't believe that any literature that the watchtower puts out to be infallible but I do think that the literature that they put out helps to expound on the scriptures and help you use the scriptures to put meaning in your life.
 

Taken

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Can the Soul Die?
OP ^

NOT a SIMPLE ANSWER of Yes or No.

Die - Death -
~ generally, cease to live

God Created AND Made, all things.

Live - Alive -
~ a "created" thing, (ie man-KIND of thing).
~ a "made" thing, (life source)

Man- life source BLOOD
Soul- life source GODS BREATH
Spirit- life source GODS SEED

Man- Kind- Form- Body-
~ Blood stops flowing or drains -body Dies

Soul- continues with Gods breath-
Departs body.
* IF the Soul IS Saved UNTO God
..IT (Departs the Dead Body), is ESCORTED (by Angels) UNTO God; to wait Judgement
* IF the Soul IS NOT Saved UNTO God
..IT ( Departs the Dead Body), is SENT to Hell; to wait Judgement.

~ A SOUL - IS ALIVE with Gods BREATH...(IN or OUT of the BODY)...
* IF Saved...IS Forever Alive...
(Gods Breath shall never Depart that Soul.)

* IF NOT SAVED....(IN or OUT of the BODY)...
"IS DEAD TO GOD"....
~ A SOUL DEAD TO GOD...IS EXPRESSLY;
SEPARATED FROM GOD, (even if it continues to have Gods breath IN IT)

* Many SOULS (in the body and out of the Body, ARE Separated FROM God, and Accounted DEAD).

* No SOULS (YET), have Gods Breath Departed from their SOUL.

* ALL are Judged. (Official Pronouncement).
~ Saved Souls...Pronounced Gods Life in that soul Forever. Judgement, Sentence:
Consequence: Reward; Crown of Life.
~ Unsaved Souls...Pronounced Gods Life (Breath) in that soul RETURNS to God.
Judgement, Sentence:
Consequence; Burned.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

n2thelight

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The word “soul” in the Bible is a translation of the Hebrew word neʹphesh and the Greek word psy·kheʹ. The Hebrew word literally means “a creature that breathes,” and the Greek word means “a living being.” Many Bible translations render the words neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ differently according to the context, using words such as soul, life, person, creature, or body.

"And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7)

Adam wasn't given a soul as many religions teach, but rather, Adam, Became a Living Soul. Notice how others translated this verse @ (Genesis 2:7) | New International Version Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

  • Young's Literal Translation And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.
  • American Standard Version And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
  • World English Bible Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
  • NWT And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person.

The punishment for disobedience was Death, not an eternal life of punishment. "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 2:17)

  • "In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”(Genesis 3:19)
  • The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” —Ezekiel 18: 4, 20, King James Version.

“Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.” (Exodus 31:14 KJV)

Note:
Although many Bible translations use the terms “dead body” or “dead person” in some verses, the original Hebrew uses the word neʹphesh, or “soul.”


Many Religions teach that the soul never dies. It that was true, then the Resurrection would be an unnecessary act.
  • Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” (John 11:23-25)
  • The Apostles Paul also stated, "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a Resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) Is There Hope for the Dead?

Yes the soul can die

Even the reason why we are in flesh bodies(satan) himself shall be no more
 

keithr

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No, actually, what it says there is "eternal torment", using the same word as in 1 John where it says, "fear hath torment". It's not saying fear has death, rather, fear has torment. And so in Matthew, these go away into eternal torment.
Matthew 25:46 says "eternal punishment" in all of the translations that I have, where "punishment" is translated from the Greek word kolasis, which comes from kolos, which means 'restrain, chastise, correct, punish'. According to the Online Bible Greek Lexicon kolasis means 'correction, punishment, penalty'. All places that kolasis and kolos are used are always translated as punishment, except, in the KJV, 1 John 4:18 where it is translated as torment. Other translations are more consistent and translate it in 1 John 4:18 as punishment too, including literal translations such as YLT and LSV. The diaglott translates it as "fear a restraint has", or in better English, 'fear restrains'. According to the Greek Lexicons (including Strong's) the Greek word does not mean 'torment'.
 
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keithr

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The Bible is clear: the soul is immortal and lives on forever either with God or separated from God.
I don't think the Bible clearly says that the soul is immortal!

(Ezekiel 18:4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine. The soul who sins, he shall die.
(Ezekiel 18:20) The soul who sins, he shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.

If souls are immortal then why does Paul say of God:
(1 Timothy 6:16) who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.

and
(1 Corinthians 15:51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
(1 Corinthians 15:53) For this perishable body must become imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

He seems to be saying that we when our bodies die, we (our soul, perhaps some kind of spirit mind?) will be unconscious, like sleeping, and will have to wait for God to supply us with another body before we become conscious again. As Christians we are promised a spirit body (not human), and an immortal spirit body, similar to what Jesus now has. The alternative to God giving us a new body (human bodies for non-Christians who are resurrected) that will be allowed to live forever, is that God willl destroy that soul:

(Matthew 10:28) Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna [fire].
(Revelation 21:8) But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
(Revelation 20:15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

(John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
 
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keithr

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My positionot interpretation is not privately held and is not my own, but is shared by hundreds of millions of Christians throughout the ages. Thanks again.
Warning - slightly sick joke ahead ;):

"They say there is safety in numbers. Tell that to the 6 million Jews!" - Ricky Gervais.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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SOUL

The hebrew word ne'phesh and the greek word Psy•khe are the two words which must be considered in the scriptures how they are used so we can get the true meaning from the Bible, instead of how they are used in the religious organizations such as Catholic or protestant Churches. When we do consider how the Bible uses these two words it becomes evident that they basically refer to a person or people, to animals, or to the life of that person or animal has. Genesis 1:20; Genesis 2:7; Numbers 31:28; 1Peter 3:20.
Both words, ne'phesh and psy•khe, when used in connection to earthly creatures refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal.
When referring to doing something with one’s whole soul, it means to do it with one’s whole being, or wholeheartedly, or with one’s whole life. Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37. In some contexts, these words can be used to refer to the desire or appetite of a living creature. They can also refer to a dead person or a dead body. Numbers 6:6; Proverbs 23:2; Isaiah 56:11; Haggai 2:13. But the scriptures don't use the word Soul as being something that separates from the body at death.
The idea that the English word Soul carries in most people's minds today
are not in agreement with the meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words as used by the inspired Bible writers.
In the scriptures the word Soul doesn't mean we have a soul in our bodies that separate at death.
I quote the Journal of Biblical Literature 1897 (Vol. XVI, p. 30), which
Professor C. A. Briggs, as a result of detailed analysis of the use of neʹphesh, observed: “Soul in English usage at the present time conveys usually a very different meaning from נפש [neʹphesh] in Hebrew, and it
is easy for the incautious reader to misinterpret.”
Also I quote the Jewish Publication Society of America when it issued a new translation of the Torah, or first five books of the Bible, the editor-in-chief, H. M. Orlinsky of Hebrew Union College, stated that the word “soul” had been virtually eliminated from this translation because, “the Hebrew word in question here is ‘Nefesh.’” He added: “Other translators have interpreted it to mean ‘soul,’ which is completely inaccurate. The Bible does not say we have a soul. ‘Nefesh’ is the person himself, his need for food, the very blood in his veins, his being.”—The New York Times, October 12, 1962.
The point that's being made here by other religious scholar's who are not JW is that the scriptures don't say humans have souls but that humans are souls.

The problem why most people today have the wrong idea of what the word Soul means is that the meaning or definition most people go by comes from philosophical thought and not how the scriptures use the word Soul.
For instance Greek philosopher Plato, for example, quotes Socrates as saying: “The soul, . . . if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, . . . goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear . . . and all the other human ills, and . . . lives in truth through all after time with the gods.”

This is in direct contrast with the Greek teaching of the psy·kheʹ (soul)in the scriptures. Plato and Socrates are saying the Soul is immaterial, intangible, invisible, and immortal, when the Scriptures show that both psy·kheʹ and neʹphesh, as used with reference to earthly creatures, and refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: “Nepes [neʹphesh] is a term of far greater extension than our word ‘soul,’ signifying life (Ex 21.23; Dt 19.21) and its various vital manifestations: breathing (Gn 35.18; Jb 41.13[21]), blood [Gn 9.4; Dt 12.23; Ps 140(141).8], desire (2 Sm 3.21; Prv 23.2). The soul in the O[ld] T[estament] means not a part of man, but the whole man—man as a living being. Similarly, in the N[ew] T[estament] it signifies human life: the life of an individual, conscious subject (Mt 2.20; 6.25; Lk 12.22-23; 14.26; Jn 10.11, 15, 17; 13.37).”—1967, Vol. XIII, p. 467.

The Roman Catholic translation, The New American Bible, in its “Glossary of Biblical Theology Terms” (pp. 27, 28), says: “In the New Testament, to ‘save one’s soul’ (Mk 8:35) does not mean to save some ‘spiritual’ part of man, as opposed to his ‘body’ (in the Platonic sense) but the whole person with emphasis on the fact that the person is living, desiring, loving and willing, etc., in addition to being concrete and physical.”—Edition published by P. J. Kenedy & Sons, New York, 1970.

 
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An Apologetic Sheepdog

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Are you as a Jehovah’s Witness allowed to believe the Bible when it disagrees with something you read in the Watchtower?

Just FYI, The Watchtower (claiming to be a prophet as an organization) publishes its own "official" JW bible that all are issued and trained to use as it is translated (twisted) to support their views and doctrine. They view all other translations as invalid as they alone are sole possessors of "the truth".

They are also trained to send inquiries to the WT for complex questions and the WT will provide answers.
 

keithr

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He [Paul] seems to be saying that we when our bodies die, we (our soul, perhaps some kind of spirit mind?) will be unconscious, like sleeping, and will have to wait for God to supply us with another body before we become conscious again. As Christians we are promised a spirit body (not human), and an immortal spirit body, similar to what Jesus now has.
More on the subject from Paul in 2 Corinthians 5 (WEB):

1) For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.
2) For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven;
3) if so be that being clothed we will not be found naked.
4) For indeed we who are in this tent do groan, being burdened; not that we desire to be unclothed, but that we desire to be clothed, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
5) Now he who made us for this very thing is God, who also gave to us the down payment of the Spirit.
6) Therefore we are always confident and know that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord;
7) for we walk by faith, not by sight.
8) We are courageous, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.
9) Therefore also we make it our aim, whether at home or absent, to be well pleasing to him.
10) For we must all be revealed before the judgment seat of Christ; that each one may receive the things in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.​
 

marks

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Matthew 25:46 says "eternal punishment" in all of the translations that I have, where "punishment" is translated from the Greek word kolasis, which comes from kolos, which means 'restrain, chastise, correct, punish'. According to the Online Bible Greek Lexicon kolasis means 'correction, punishment, penalty'. All places that kolasis and kolos are used are always translated as punishment, except, in the KJV, 1 John 4:18 where it is translated as torment. Other translations are more consistent and translate it in 1 John 4:18 as punishment too, including literal translations such as YLT and LSV. The diaglott translates it as "fear a restraint has", or in better English, 'fear restrains'. According to the Greek Lexicons (including Strong's) the Greek word does not mean 'torment'.

There is only the one other place that very word kolosis is used, in 1 John 4.

And as we look at related words, as you've done, I'm not seeing where you are showing anything different, that "death", cessation of existence, is what is in mind. As you've pointed out, it's root word also means punish. But we're not talking about generic "punishment", which could be anything, from a fine, to death, to daily beatings. Not, this one is more like the daily beatings. Eternal punishment. Punishment that is torment. That's the idea of the word here.

Much love!
 

Wynona

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I feel like damned souls die for sure in the lake of fire. The second death.

I could be wrong.
 
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BroRando

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I feel like damned souls die for sure in the lake of fire. The second death.

I could be wrong.

The lake of fire is called Gehenna which is symbolism for everlasting destruction. The Second Death. This is the Death that Adam and Eve died by returning to the dust. (Genesis 3:19) They are dead forever without a resurrection. They return to the place they came from which is the dust.

Jesus used the term “Gehennato symbolize the utter destruction resulting from God’s adverse judgment. Hence, “Gehenna” has a meaning similar to that of “the lake of fire,” mentioned in the book of Revelation. Both symbolize eternal destruction from which no resurrection is possible.Luke 12:4, 5; Revelation 20:14, 15.

The punishment for sin is death, not life in eternal punishment. (Romana 6:23) Since Gehenna symbolizes the lake of fire, in one word it means Destruction. To be destroyed has a finality to it. Therefore, if you read (Jn 3:16) you should come away with new and deeper understanding of the words of Jesus Christ.

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

What is God’s purpose for the earth? Will it ever be a paradise? Soon, for the righteous of heart, "he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away." (Rev 21:4)

"For evil men will be done away with, But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth." (Psalm 37:9)

"Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." (Psalm 37:10-11)
 
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jessiblue

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@jessiblue So the believer can know "much assurance" (1 Thessalonians 1.5). :)

Yeah… In these latter days, the saints should stand firm, always abounding in the work of the Lord. Matthew 10:28 assures and encourages us to fear not. Men can only wound or kill our flesh bodies; they cannot kill our souls. Only God has the power to blot out a soul as if it never existed.
-jb
 

farouk

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Yeah… In these latter days, the saints should stand firm, always abounding in the work of the Lord. Matthew 10:28 assures and encourages us to fear not. Men can only wound or kill our flesh bodies; they cannot kill our souls. Only God has the power to blot out a soul as if it never existed.
-jb
@jessiblue Great ref. to 1 Corinthians 15.58 there! :)