the great Jewish "distress"

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

The temple of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is the church.

Also, the Messiah came and was crucified according to the exact time that many 1st-century Jews were expecting, because it was prophesied by Daniel in Daniel 9:24-27, and the time for the fulfillment of the prophecy (i.e the 70th week), had arrived, because the Jews who were familiar with Daniel 9:24-27 knew that the first 69 weeks was about to be completed (circa what we today call the year A.D 27) - the exact year Jesus began His ministry after being baptized by John the Baptist.

There are even many Rabbis today who say that the Messiah "is already 2,000 years late" because of this, and have developed theories to explain it.

The fact of the first century fulfillment of the 70th week of Daniel is as Preterist as the crucifixion of Christ. This is true regardless of whether or not Preterism or Partial Preterism is a vessel of "truth and nothing but the truth".

You may want to read "The Atonement Clock" by Christian Gedge in order to get yourself more informed on the subject.

Click to expand...

Scripture cannot lie - but men do.

Two Comings of the Lord - His First and Second (Return of the King)
Two Births of man - born of flesh and Born Again by the SPIRIT
Two Spirits - the spirit of Error and the Spirit of Truth which is the Holy Spirit
Two Israels - one is of the flesh and under His Wrath (nation Israel) and One is of the Spirit the True 12 Tribes of Israel -His Church
Two Temples - the earthly one which the Lord destroyed and His Body/Believers who are His dwelling Place
Two Jerusalems - one of the flesh in the Middle East and One Above where the Redeemed Belong to and Dwell
Two Roaming's of satan - one now on earth and one AFTER he is released from prison
Two RESURRECTIONS - the FIRST unto Immortal LIFE and the SECOND unto the Lake of Fire
Two Judgements - One before Christ for those who are His - one before God who are not redeemed
Two Books - the Book of LIFE and the book of Works - the book of works is cast into the Lake of Fire
Two Deaths - Physical and Eternal - Blessed is he who is part of the FIRST Resurrection = STAY OUT of the Second Death
Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the FIRST Resurrection. Over such the SECOND Death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. ( shall signifies it has not yet occurred)
Two Thousand Year Periods - the first one where man fell short and because of sin could not complete and the SECOND One with the King of kings
Two covenants - the Law which NO ONE is made Righteous and the Law of Christ which SAVES us
Two Sabbath Rests - one under the Law and the other found only in Christ, for God Rested on the Seventh Day
ONLY Two Choices - Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son

David in NJ said:

This may not be you, but anyone who says satan is currently bound and locked up in prison is in error and is adding and taking away from Revelation.
Have you submitted unto the Lord Jesus and accept the Truth? = as written in 1 peter 5:8
Satan confronted Jesus, face to face, on earth, no binding of satan took place.
Satan went his way after tempting the Lord. Back to roaming the earth unbound.
Did Jesus cast out demons? YES
Did Jesus send those demons to Hades or Prison or Tartarus - No, He did not.

Do you know who are the angels that are locked up as mentioned in Jude???
Do you know when and why they were locked up???
Are you willing to submit your mind unto the Mind of Christ???

Click to expand...

I do think that satan is bound but not literally but spiritually

I also believe that it happened at the cross so the examples you used wouldn’t apply

David in NJ said:

Scripture cannot lie - but men do.

Click to expand...

Yes.
QUOTE David in NJ
Two Comings of the Lord - His First and Second (Return of the King)
Two Births of man - born of flesh and Born Again by the SPIRIT
Two Spirits - the spirit of Error and the Spirit of Truth which is the Holy Spirit

Two Israels - one is of the flesh and under His Wrath (nation Israel) and One is of the Spirit the True 12 Tribes of Israel -His Church
UNQUOTE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One Israel: the latter one. The other calls itself Israel based on genetic ancestry, but it's not Israel if it's not in Christ.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE David in NJ
Two Temples - the earthly one which the Lord destroyed and His Body/Believers who are His dwelling Place
Two Jerusalems - one of the flesh in the Middle East and One Above where the Redeemed Belong to and Dwell
Two Roaming's of satan - one now on earth and one AFTER he is released from prison

Two RESURRECTIONS - the FIRST unto Immortal LIFE and the SECOND unto the Lake of Fire
Two Judgements - One before Christ for those who are His - one before God who are not redeemed
UNQUOTE
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One resurrection: "For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming." 1 Corinthians 15:21-23.

The second death has no power over those who are raised with Christ at His coming (as you mentioned). They are the only ones who will be raised with Christ. The resurrection is with His resurrection, or not at all. The only way there can be a second resurrection is if there is a second resurrection from the second death (Revelation 20:12-13 does not speak of a resurrection. It says merely that death and hades will deliver up the souls in them to stand before the Great White Throne):

John 3:17
"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God."

Notice:

In the days of Noah the world was judged by God and found guilty 120 years before the decreed sentence (the flood) came upon the world. God had already said He was going to destroy the world in the flood. The end of all flesh had come before Him (that's when He told Noah to build the ark). There was a 120-year period between the judgment and the carrying out of the decreed sentence. Enough time for Noah to build and ark and for those who would put faith in the ark to save them to get into the ark:

John 12:31-32
"Now is the judgement of this world. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself."

Revelation 12:9-11
"And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven,

Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul to the death."

John 3:17
"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God."

Hebrews 11:7
"By faith Noah, having been warned by God of things not yet seen, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

Jesus is our Ark of salvation, and just as the flood that came 120 years later was the carrying out of the decreed sentence, the Great White Throne is the carrying out of the decreed sentence. It is only a "judgment" because those who were not in the Ark (Jesus) were already condemned by their unbelief.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE David in NJ
Two Deaths - Physical and Eternal - Blessed is he who is part of the FIRST Resurrection = STAY OUT of the Second Death.

Two Books - the Book of LIFE and the book of Works - the book of works is cast into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the FIRST Resurrection. Over such the SECOND Death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. ( shall signifies it has not yet occurred)

Two Thousand Year Periods - the first one where man fell short and because of sin could not complete and the SECOND One with the King of kings
Two covenants - the Law which NO ONE is made Righteous and the Law of Christ which SAVES us
Two Sabbath Rests - one under the Law and the other found only in Christ, for God Rested on the Seventh Day
ONLY Two Choices - Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son
UNQUOTE
Praise God our Father and His only begotten Son our Savior

Marty fox said:

I do think that satan is bound but not literally but spiritually

I also believe that it happened at the cross so the examples you used wouldn’t apply

Click to expand...

I believe (in fact scripture states so I know) that he was defeated BY the cross and was cast down to the earth, and the earth and the sea were warned that it was "woe" unto them. Then Revelation 12 says he went to make war first against the woman, then against the rest of her seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ] (Revelation 12:17)

The idea that Satan is bound is not scriptural because when scripture says he will be bound, it says he will be unable to deceive the nations.

* In his letter to the Christians in Corinth, Paul states,

"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).

* Peter tells Christians to "Be sensible and vigilant, because your adversary the Devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking someone he may devour; whom firmly resist in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions in the world are being completed in your brotherhood." (1 Peter 5:8-9).

* In Ephesians 6:11-12 Paul tells the Christians there to "put on the whole armour of God, for your being able to stand against the wiles of the devil", and then continues to say, "because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places".

* In Revelation 2:12a Jesus tells the church at Pergamos, "I know your works, and where you live, even where Satan's seat is.”

* In Revelation 2:9-10 Jesus tells the church in Smyrna that ”the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

* In 1 Thessalonians 2:18 Paul tells the Christians in Thessaloniki that he, and those who accompanied him on his journeys, had attempted to come to them, "but Satan hindered us."

* James tells Christians, "Therefore submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7).

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

I believe (in fact scripture states so I know) that he was defeated BY the cross and was cast down to the earth, and the earth and the sea were warned that it was "woe" unto them. Then Revelation 12 says he went to make war first against the woman, then against the rest of her seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ] (Revelation 12:17)

The idea that Satan is bound is not scriptural because when scripture says he will be bound, it says he will be unable to deceive the nations.

* In his letter to the Christians in Corinth, Paul states,

"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).

* Peter tells Christians to "Be sensible and vigilant, because your adversary the Devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking someone he may devour; whom firmly resist in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions in the world are being completed in your brotherhood." (1 Peter 5:8-9).

* In Ephesians 6:11-12 Paul tells the Christians there to "put on the whole armour of God, for your being able to stand against the wiles of the devil", and then continues to say, "because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places".

* In Revelation 2:12a Jesus tells the church at Pergamos, "I know your works, and where you live, even where Satan's seat is.”

* In Revelation 2:9-10 Jesus tells the church in Smyrna that ”the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

* In 1 Thessalonians 2:18 Paul tells the Christians in Thessaloniki that he, and those who accompanied him on his journeys, had attempted to come to them, "but Satan hindered us."

* James tells Christians, "Therefore submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7).

Click to expand...

Yes this is why I said spiritually not physically he can’t deceive the Truly saved

Marty fox said:

Yes this is why I said spiritually not physically he can’t deceive the Truly saved

Click to expand...

Well as you can see from the scriptures I posted in post #484, he's certainly getting up to a lot of mischief. I think of someone who's bound. Ropes tied around him, chains maybe, maybe chains tied to clamps around his ankles, handcuffed...

So we're not told "how" Satan is bound but we are told that he is bound and shut up in the abyss and a seal set on him so that he cannot (not at all) deceive the nations. Yet Paul says, "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).

So Satan is getting up to a lot of mischief deceiving the nations while he's bound and unable to deceive the nations. Makes one wonder why the Lord bothered. I say that with the utmost reverence to our Lord Jesus Christ. The cynicism is aimed at those who believe Satan is bound.

Unless, of course, we choose not to interpret the plain and obvious meaning of what the scripture states in such a way as to make it comply with our own theology (and the eschatology man's theology produces), so that we realize that Satan's binding and being shut up in the abyss is still coming (but that would be a miracle for many saints). They'd have to start believing that the scriptures actually mean what they say

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

Well as you can see from the scriptures I posted in post #484, he's certainly getting up to a lot of mischief. I think of someone who's bound. Ropes tied around him, chains maybe, maybe chains tied to clamps around his ankles, handcuffed...

So we're not told "how" Satan is bound but we are told that he is bound and shut up in the abyss and a seal set on him so that he cannot (not at all) deceive the nations. Yet Paul says, "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).

So Satan is getting up to a lot of mischief while he's bound. Makes one wonder why the Lord bothered. I say that with reverence to the Lord Jesus Christ. The cynicism is aimed at those who believe Satan is bound.

Unless, of course, we choose not to interpret the plain and obvious meaning of what the scripture states in such a way as to make it comply with our own theology (and the eschatology man's theology produces), so that we realize his binding and being shut up in the abyss is still coming (but that would be a miracle for many saints). They'd have to start believing that the scriptures actually mean what they say

Click to expand...

Weather or not satan is bound sin will still run rampant in this world because the thoughts of man is evil all of the time see Genesis 6:5

This is why it needs to be about the gospel the great chain. If you put a vicious dog on a chain he can still bite you if you get close enough.

Marty fox said:

Weather or not satan is bound sin will still run rampant in this world because the thoughts of man is evil all of the time see Genesis 6:5

This is why it needs to be about the gospel the great chain. If you put a vicious dog on a chain he can still bite you if you get close enough.

Click to expand...

I wonder how religions that started long after the time of Christ got started. You know? Those religions that were started by prophets who had visitations of heavenly beings which resulted in miraculously producing entire religious books that never existed before. I can think of at least two. Both of which corrupt the Biblical scriptures, claiming that they mean what they don't mean.

I suppose it's all man and his evil imagination. Nothing to do with Satan and things we can't see in the spiritual realm, then?

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

I wonder how religions that started long after the time of Christ got started. You know? Those religions that were started by prophets who had visitations of heavenly beings which resulted in miraculously producing entire religious books that never existed before. I can think of at least two. Both of which corrupt the Biblical scriptures, claiming that they mean what they don't mean.

I suppose it's all man and his evil imagination. Nothing to do with Satan and things we can't see in the spiritual realm, then?

Click to expand...

Satan can deceive those who aren’t truly spiritually grounded in the word

Marty fox said:

I do think that satan is bound but not literally but spiritually

I also believe that it happened at the cross so the examples you used wouldn’t apply

Click to expand...

Satan is a spirit so you have an error.

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

Well as you can see from the scriptures I posted in post #484, he's certainly getting up to a lot of mischief. I think of someone who's bound. Ropes tied around him, chains maybe, maybe chains tied to clamps around his ankles, handcuffed...

So we're not told "how" Satan is bound but we are told that he is bound and shut up in the abyss and a seal set on him so that he cannot (not at all) deceive the nations. Yet Paul says, "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).

So Satan is getting up to a lot of mischief deceiving the nations while he's bound and unable to deceive the nations. Makes one wonder why the Lord bothered. I say that with the utmost reverence to our Lord Jesus Christ. The cynicism is aimed at those who believe Satan is bound.

Unless, of course, we choose not to interpret the plain and obvious meaning of what the scripture states in such a way as to make it comply with our own theology (and the eschatology man's theology produces), so that we realize that Satan's binding and being shut up in the abyss is still coming (but that would be a miracle for many saints). They'd have to start believing that the scriptures actually mean what they say

Click to expand...

Martyfox and Tuth7t7 are bound in their minds unable to SEE and submit unto God.
They worship false doctrine even when you show CLEAR scripture refuting their error.
Religion is satan's apple pie with vanilla ice cream and whipped cream on top.
They cannot resist it.

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

Yes.
QUOTE David in NJ
Two Comings of the Lord - His First and Second (Return of the King)
Two Births of man - born of flesh and Born Again by the SPIRIT
Two Spirits - the spirit of Error and the Spirit of Truth which is the Holy Spirit

Two Israels - one is of the flesh and under His Wrath (nation Israel) and One is of the Spirit the True 12 Tribes of Israel -His Church
UNQUOTE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One Israel: the latter one. The other calls itself Israel based on genetic ancestry, but it's not Israel if it's not in Christ.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE David in NJ
Two Temples - the earthly one which the Lord destroyed and His Body/Believers who are His dwelling Place
Two Jerusalems - one of the flesh in the Middle East and One Above where the Redeemed Belong to and Dwell
Two Roaming's of satan - one now on earth and one AFTER he is released from prison

Two RESURRECTIONS - the FIRST unto Immortal LIFE and the SECOND unto the Lake of Fire
Two Judgements - One before Christ for those who are His - one before God who are not redeemed
UNQUOTE
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One resurrection: "For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming." 1 Corinthians 15:21-23.

The second death has no power over those who are raised with Christ at His coming (as you mentioned). They are the only ones who will be raised with Christ. The resurrection is with His resurrection, or not at all. The only way there can be a second resurrection is if there is a second resurrection from the second death (Revelation 20:12-13 does not speak of a resurrection. It says merely that death and hades will deliver up the souls in them to stand before the Great White Throne):

John 3:17
"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God."

Notice:

In the days of Noah the world was judged by God and found guilty 120 years before the decreed sentence (the flood) came upon the world. God had already said He was going to destroy the world in the flood. The end of all flesh had come before Him (that's when He told Noah to build the ark). There was a 120-year period between the judgment and the carrying out of the decreed sentence. Enough time for Noah to build and ark and for those who would put faith in the ark to save them to get into the ark:

John 12:31-32
"Now is the judgement of this world. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself."

Revelation 12:9-11
"And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven,

Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul to the death."

John 3:17
"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God."

Hebrews 11:7
"By faith Noah, having been warned by God of things not yet seen, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

Jesus is our Ark of salvation, and just as the flood that came 120 years later was the carrying out of the decreed sentence, the Great White Throne is the carrying out of the decreed sentence. It is only a "judgment" because those who were not in the Ark (Jesus) were already condemned by their unbelief.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE David in NJ
Two Deaths - Physical and Eternal - Blessed is he who is part of the FIRST Resurrection = STAY OUT of the Second Death.

Two Books - the Book of LIFE and the book of Works - the book of works is cast into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the FIRST Resurrection. Over such the SECOND Death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. ( shall signifies it has not yet occurred)

Two Thousand Year Periods - the first one where man fell short and because of sin could not complete and the SECOND One with the King of kings
Two covenants - the Law which NO ONE is made Righteous and the Law of Christ which SAVES us
Two Sabbath Rests - one under the Law and the other found only in Christ, for God Rested on the Seventh Day
ONLY Two Choices - Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son
UNQUOTE
Praise God our Father and His only begotten Son our Savior

Click to expand...

There are Two Resurrections = One for the Just and the Second for the Unjust.

If there were not Two Resurrections then there would be no need for Jesus to clearly define the FIRST Resurrection. i call this a No-Brainer.

The dead being given UP as referred to in Revelation 20:13 is the second resurrection.
IMPORTANT - They are not resurrected into Immortal Bodies as the FIRST. Clearly they are distinguished from each other just as our Lord said.
So there is a FIRST Giving Up and a Second Giving Up.
Semantics is for people who want to argue.
God's Word is for His Children who love TRUTH - Amen

David in NJ said:

Satan is a spirit so you have an error.

Click to expand...

That’s why the binding has to be spiritual and not physical how else would you explain it?

Marty fox said:

That’s why the binding has to be spiritual and not physical how else would you explain it?

Click to expand...

Dear Brother, Satan has not yet been bound. He will be when the Lord Returns.
Please rest your head on Scripture. Throw all religious teaching out the window and never look back.
The quicker you do this the quicker the Comforter will help you. God loves you.

The Scripture cannot lie.

Marty fox said:

That’s why the binding has to be spiritual and not physical how else would you explain it?

Click to expand...

i believe in binding and loosing - but no one can bind satan until the time set forth by the Father.

David in NJ said:

Martyfox and Tuth7t7 are bound in their minds unable to SEE and submit unto God.
They worship false doctrine even when you show CLEAR scripture refuting their error.
Religion is satan's apple pie with vanilla ice cream and whipped cream on top.
They cannot resist it.

Click to expand...

I don't think @Marty fox is "religious" in that sense though, but I agree with what you say about those who are religious in that sense.

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

Jesus stated the temple would be destroyed because they rejected Him. Josephus wasn't a Christian, so he had a different idea about the reason.

.. and your argument has nothing to do with the price of eggs (i.e the fact that there was an overspreading of abomination taking place in the temple, as Daniel 9:27 prophesied).

Click to expand...

Except Christ was not present on earth in 70AD, so no fulfillment of Daniel 9:27. Just what Jesus said 40 years prior, to "get out of Jerusalem". They did that in 66AD.

Now Daniel 9:26

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

The Jews revolted, and brought the Romans to Jerusalem twice. Once in 66, and then again in 70.

The Prince will return soon to take care of Daniel 9:27.

David in NJ said:

There are Two Resurrections = One for the Just and the Second for the Unjust.

If there were not Two Resurrections then there would be no need for Jesus to clearly define the FIRST Resurrection. i call this a No-Brainer.

The dead being given UP as referred to in Revelation 20:13 is the second resurrection.
IMPORTANT - They are not resurrected into Immortal Bodies as the FIRST. Clearly they are distinguished from each other just as our Lord said.
So there is a FIRST Giving Up and a Second Giving Up.
Semantics is for people who want to argue.
God's Word is for His Children who love TRUTH - Amen

Click to expand...

Huh. I was about to argue over semantics and you decided I may not. But in the process of proving myself right I proved myself wrong, because I was going to argue semantics anyway, so I began like this..

Well sometimes semantics are important, but not important enough to argue about. I will stick to what I said. Revelation 20:13 does not say the sea gave up the living. It says it gave up the dead, and the living ("resurrected") are not judged, the dead are judged. The word "resurrection" does not come up again after Revelation 20:

.. then I realized that sure, the word "resurrection" does not come up again after Revelation 20:6...

.. but verse 5 says, ""the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

So I'm glad I was arguing over semantics.

David in NJ said:

i believe in binding and loosing - but no one can bind satan until the time set forth by the Father.

Click to expand...

That's been my contention with the whole "binding of Satan" thing that became so popular in the Charismatic churches at one stage.

Timtofly said:

Except Christ was not present on earth in 70AD, so no fulfillment of Daniel 9:27. Just what Jesus said 40 years prior, to "get out of Jerusalem". They did that in 66AD.

Now Daniel 9:26

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

The Jews revolted, and brought the Romans to Jerusalem twice. Once in 66, and then again in 70.

The Prince will return soon to take care of Daniel 9:27.

Click to expand...

After March comes April.
After Saturday comes Sunday.
After your 21st birthday you were living in the 22nd year of your life.

In verse 26 is says, "And after sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself. And the people of the ruler who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And the end of it shall be with the flood, and ruins are determined, until the end shall be war."

The fact that it was said that the ruler who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary means that this can be taken to mean 40 years later, or (if you really want to go crazy), 2,000 years later.

But the fact that it says the Messiah would be cut off after the (seven plus) sixty-two weeks means that you have to willfully ignore the fact that the 70th week is the week in which the Messiah was cut off.

The Jews of the first century understood this. Many Rabbis even today understand this, though they believe it means the Messiah is 2,000 years late.

It was because of their rejection of Christ and the overspreading of abominations that the temple was destroyed. To deny this is to deny Jesus' own words not only in the Olivet Discourse, but also to the Pharisees:

Matthew 23
38 Behold, your house is left to you desolate.
39 For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on until you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."

So you can go crazy and cut 'n paste Daniel 9:27 (Christians are good at going crazy with the scriptures). But you either don't go crazy and place the destruction of the temple where it belongs (A.D 70), or you go crazy and cut it out from the first century and shove it like a square peg into the round hole of seven-year tribulationism.

I can't say "the choice is yours" because scripture does not actually give you the liberty of going crazy with any scripture.