Why Woul a Loving God Create Such a Hateful Place?

Alethos · Apr 7, 2011

Duckybill said:
The devil or Satan is mentioned over 60 times in the NT. Learn to live with it, 'Truth'.

Ducky you may like to look at the verses for devil also.

The Greek word diabolos literally means "to throw across" or "strike through". It has the ideas of being a slanderer and a false accuser.

You might like to know that its possible to have a good satan, in fact, satan can be holy and true! But never can you have a good devil...why you ask? becuase one who falsely accusers another, can never be holy and true.

A slanderer is only worthy of death.

Matthew4:1

"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil."

Matt 4:5

"Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,"

Matt 4:8

"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;"

Matt 4:11

"Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him."

Matthew 13:39

"The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."

Matthew 25:41

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

Luke 4:2

"Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered."

"And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread."

"And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time."

"And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it."

"And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season."

Luke 8:12

"Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved."

John 6:70

"Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?"

John 8:44

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

John 13:2

"And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;"

Acts 10:38

"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."

Acts 13:10

"And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?"

Ephesians 4:27

"Neither give place to the devil."

Ephesians 6:11

"Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

1 Timothy 3:6

"Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil."

1 Timothy 3:7

"Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

1 Timothy 3:11

"Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things."

2 Timothy 2:26

"And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

2 Timothy 3:3

"Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,"

Titus 2:3

"The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;"

Hebrews 2:14

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"

James 4:7

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

1 Peter 5:8

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

1 John 3:8

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

1 John 3:10

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

Jude 1:9

"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

Revelation 2:10

"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Rev 12:9

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Revelation 12:12

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Revelation 20:2

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

Revelation 20:10

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

WhiteKnuckle · Apr 7, 2011

What exactly are we saying here?

Are we saying that there is no Satan as in, Lucifer the fallen angel, walking the earth? Are we also saying that there are no demons walking the earth?

Alethos · Apr 7, 2011

WhiteKnuckle said:
What exactly are we saying here?

Are we saying that there is no Satan as in, Lucifer the fallen angel, walking the earth? Are we also saying that there are no demons walking the earth?

7 pages of posts have been saying that Whiteknuckle. But I will not loose heart, for you never know who of all those viewing this discussion, just one may be looking for truth.

And that is of great comfort to me.

Thanks

Alethos

Duckybill · Apr 7, 2011

Truth said:
Ducky you may like to look at the verses for devil also.

The Greek word diabolos literally means "to throw across" or "strike through". It has the ideas of being a slanderer and a false accuser.

You might like to know that its possible to have a good satan, in fact, satan can be holy and true! But never can you have a good devil...why you ask? becuase one who falsely accusers another, can never be holy and true.

A slanderer is only worthy of death.

Matthew4:1

"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil."

Matt 4:5

"Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,"

Matt 4:8

"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;"

Matt 4:11

"Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him."

Matthew 13:39

"The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."

Matthew 25:41

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

Luke 4:2

"Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered."

"And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread."

"And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time."

"And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it."

"And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season."

Luke 8:12

"Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved."

John 6:70

"Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?"

John 8:44

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

John 13:2

"And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;"

Acts 10:38

"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."

Acts 13:10

"And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?"

Ephesians 4:27

"Neither give place to the devil."

Ephesians 6:11

"Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

1 Timothy 3:6

"Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil."

1 Timothy 3:7

"Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

1 Timothy 3:11

"Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things."

2 Timothy 2:26

"And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

2 Timothy 3:3

"Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,"

Titus 2:3

"The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;"

Hebrews 2:14

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"

James 4:7

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

1 Peter 5:8

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

1 John 3:8

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

1 John 3:10

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

Jude 1:9

"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

Revelation 2:10

"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Rev 12:9

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Revelation 12:12

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Revelation 20:2

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

Revelation 20:10

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Again you quote verse after verse that proves the devil exists and at work doing evil. Thanks.

WhiteKnuckle · Apr 7, 2011

Truth said:
7 pages of posts have been saying that Whiteknuckle. But I will not loose heart, for you never know who of all those viewing this discussion, just one may be looking for truth.

And that is of great comfort to me.

Thanks

Alethos

Okay,I couldn't tell if this was like the coversation on hell. It's an interesting idea, I've been looking for something new to research. At this point I'm going to disagree that Satan and his demons are not at work in this world.
I do agree that the word 'devil' is not always used meaning Satan the fallen angel. I also agree that many if not most of our temptations and what not are from ourselves or from other people, not nesissarily(sp?) demons.

Edited to add:

I do agree that the power of the devil has been destroyed by Jesus death and resurection. Those who are in Christ are delivered from Satans power.

Alethos · Apr 9, 2011

... that “through” death he might DESTROY “HIM” THAT “HAD” THE POWER OF DEATH, THAT IS THE DEVIL; Heb 2:14

... but now once in the end of the world hath he (Jesus) appeared to PUT AWAY SIN by the sacrifice of himself. Heb 9:26

to these above quotes we should also add:

....and SIN, when it is finished, BRINGETH FORTH DEATH. James 1:15

"Sin causes death, and the devil causes death.

The devil therefore was destroyed through & by the death of Jesus, and sin was destroyed by the death of Jesus.

Surely any simple minded Christian can conclude that the devil “is” bodily sin?

Jesus, by resisting the power of sin, and by giving up to the cross the body in which sin finds it source, destroyed forever the power of sin over himself.

This death to sin made it possible for Jesus who rose to immortality and achieved for himself that which is now made available to others who in like manner "endeavour" to overcome in Jesus (Rev 3:5, 12, 21 Rev 21:7. So the dominion of sin and death has already been destroyed "in principle", until the conclusion of the 1000 year reign when sin and death is swallowed up for all who live in Christ Jesus.

Alethos

ps. its as simple as 1 + 1 = ?

Duckybill · Apr 9, 2011

Truth said:
... that “through” death he might DESTROY “HIM” THAT “HAD” THE POWER OF DEATH, THAT IS THE DEVIL;

Did you just say "THE DEVIL" again? The writer of Hebrews clearly believed in the devil.

The devil therefore was destroyed through & by the death of Jesus, and sin was destroyed by the death of Jesus.

Sin was destroyed? Which world are you living in?

Surely any simple minded Christian can conclude that the devil “is” bodily sin?

Guess the writers of the NT weren't "simple minded". They mentioned the devil or Satan many times, including Jesus.

Satan loves it when we try to ignore his existence, when we do not resist him. That gives him power to walk all over us and our families.

James 4:7 (NKJV)
[sup]7 [/sup]Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

Alethos · Apr 9, 2011

Duckybill said:
Did you just say "THE DEVIL" again? The writer of Hebrews clearly believed in the devil.

Sin was destroyed? Which world are you living in?

Guess the writers of the NT weren't "simple minded". They mentioned the devil or Satan many times, including Jesus.

Satan loves it when we try to ignore his existence, when we do not resist him. That gives him power to walk all over us and our families.

James 4:7 (NKJV)
[sup]7 [/sup]Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

Was sinned destroyed for Jesus Christ?

I would hate to think your answer was no!

devil = sin and Jesus destroyed the source of sin = flesh and therefore Jesus today is Spirit, which means he can never sin! nor can he die becuase he overcame both sin and death!

Yes Ducky...very simple.

Duckybill · Apr 9, 2011

Truth said:
Was sinned destroyed for Jesus Christ?

I would hate to think your answer was no!

Sin has not been destroyed and neither has Satan.

devil = sin

Wrong again!

and Jesus destroyed the source of sin = flesh and therefore Jesus today is Spirit, which means he can never sin! nor can he die becuase he overcame both sin and death!

Yes Ducky...very simple.

Satan is quite alive. This world is filled with wickedness.

1 John 3:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Well what do you know, John did believe in the devil.

Alethos · Apr 9, 2011

Duckybill said:
Sin has not been destroyed and neither has Satan.

Wrong again!

Satan is quite alive. This world is filled with wickedness.

1 John 3:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Well what do you know, John did believe in the devil.

For the first time I agree with you Ducky, like John, I also agree there is a devil.

He is listed below which are those "children" who did not love their brothers.

Col 3:5 Mortify (kill) therefore your members (bodies) which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds (works);

Hey DUCKY (large caps so you can hear me)

WHAT IS THE "OLD MAN"?

Yes Ducky it’s the devil i.e. flesh, the works of the devil, yes ducky can you hear me from Australia? John believed also the flesh is the devil who Jesus came to destroy Heb 2:14 Jesus didn’t destroy the Old Man because Jesus never sinned!!!! But you have an OLD MAN Ducky, and he’s putrid, defiled flesh full of sins, which if you understand the atonement can have them forgiven you.

But sadly Ducky you understand very little...only child like faiy tales of demons and devils.

Alethos

Ps have you been watching too many Hollywood movies? get your mind in the Word!

Duckybill · Apr 9, 2011

Truth said:
Yes Ducky it’s the devil i.e. flesh, the works of the devil, yes ducky can you hear me from Australia? John believed also the flesh is the devil who Jesus came to destroy Heb 2:14 Jesus didn’t destroy the Old Man because Jesus never sinned!!!! But you have an OLD MAN Ducky, and he’s putrid, defiled flesh full of sins, which if you understand the atonement can have them forgiven you.

But sadly Ducky you understand very little...only child like faiy tales of demons and devils.

NO! The devil is not "flesh" nor 'the flesh'. It's clear that you believe the Bible is "faiy tales of demons and devils". I do understand.

Ps have you been watching too many Hollywood movies? get your mind in the Word!

That's what I've been quoting to you over and over, the Word. You just didn't recognize it.

1 Peter 5:8-9 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup]Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. [sup]9 [/sup]Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

Satan sends his ministers to convince us that Satan is no threat to humans.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (NKJV)
[sup]14 [/sup]And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. [sup]15 [/sup]Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Alethos · Apr 9, 2011

Duckybill said:
NO! The devil is not "flesh" nor 'the flesh'. It's clear that you believe the Bible is "faiy tales of demons and devils". I do understand.

That's what I've been quoting to you over and over, the Word. You just didn't recognize it.

1 Peter 5:8-9 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup]Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. [sup]9 [/sup]Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

Satan sends his ministers to convince us that Satan is no threat to humans.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (NKJV)
[sup]14 [/sup]And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. [sup]15 [/sup]Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

Ducky I will ask the same question again, and again, and again, but you will not answer.

How many devils have you seen (like lions) devouring people?

I am guessing none!

Did you know Gods advice to Cain?

Gen 4:7 If you (Cain) do well, will you not be accepted (Yes)? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching (Lion??) at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."

Sin is crouching at the door...interesting, God often points us to his animal kingdom when explaining sin.

I wonder why Ducky?

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil (fasle accuser) walks about like a roaring lion (metaphor= crouching???), seeking whom he may devour. [sup]9 [/sup]Resist him (the flesh), steadfast in the faith (Spirit), knowing that the same sufferings (in the flesh) are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

So your point is clear.

There are two minds.

1 Carnal - animal
2. Spiritaul - faith

They hate each other becuase God placed emnity between them from the beginning.

Gen 3:15 I (God) will put enmity (hatred) between you (Serpent) and the woman (Christ), and between your (Serpent) offspring and her (Christ) offspring; he (Jesus) shall bruise your (Serpent) head, and you (Serpent - Flesh) shall bruise his heel."

Two lineages of peoples in the earth represented by the following:

1 Those of the Fleshly carnal mind - dead
2. Those of Christ - alive

Alethos

ps. Those reading (other than Ducky) should know I contend for this truth, for your benefit, else I would be casting my pearl before swine.

Duckybill · Apr 9, 2011

Truth said:
Ducky I will ask the same question again, and again, and again, but you will not answer.

How many devils have you seen (like lions) devouring people?

I am guessing none!

It is very difficult to take you seriously. Satan is invisible unless he chooses otherwise. Have you ever seen God?

2 Corinthians 4:18 (NKJV)
[sup]18 [/sup]while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Did you know Gods advice to Cain?

Gen 4:7

If you (Cain) do well, will you not be accepted (Yes)? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching (Lion??) at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."

Sin is crouching at the door...interesting, God often points us to his animal kingdom when explaining sin.

I wonder why Ducky?

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil (fasle accuser) walks about like a roaring lion (metaphor= crouching???), seeking whom he may devour. [sup]9 [/sup]Resist him (the flesh), steadfast in the faith (Spirit), knowing that the same sufferings (in the flesh) are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

So your point is clear.

There are two minds.

1 Carnal - animal
2. Spiritaul - faith

They hate each other becuase God placed emnity between them from the beginning.

Gen 3:15 I (God) will put enmity (hatred) between you (Serpent) and the woman (Christ), and between your (Serpent) offspring and her (Christ) offspring; he (Jesus) shall bruise your (Serpent) head, and you (Serpent - Flesh) shall bruise his heel."

Two lineages of peoples in the earth represented by the following:

1 Those of the Fleshly carnal mind - dead
2. Those of Christ - alive

Alethos

ps. Those reading (other than Ducky) should know I contend for this truth, for your benefit, else I would be casting my pearl before swine.

You continue to make a mockery of God's Word. The Bible says MUCH about Satan and his workers. Satan has deceived you and is using you to deceive the gullible.

1 Timothy 4:1 (NKJV)
[sup]1 [/sup]Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

Doctrines of demons are not entitles 'doctrines of demons'.

Alethos · Apr 9, 2011

Duckybill said:
It is very difficult to take you seriously. Satan is invisible unless he chooses otherwise. Have you ever seen God?

2 Corinthians 4:18 (NKJV)
[sup]18 [/sup]while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Ducky you have misquoted (again) which is often your chosen path of interpration.

If you thought to quote the prevoius verse you will see what Paul is stating as eternal.

2 Corin 4:17 eternal weight of "glory" beyond all comparison.

And yes Ducky for now God's Glory is not seen, but at least we know its real from those things which are written. But you would have us think the devil is a Lion, or maybe a Red Dragon, or maybe my dog Marli whoi is a just quietly, a demonic being which roams (back yard) devouring whom she wills. Needless to say only the birds need fear of my dog!

You continue to believe in your "doctrines of demons" speaking like one who has departed from the true faith. I am amazed you quoted a verse which speaks against you?

So misguided.

Alethos

Duckybill · Apr 9, 2011

Truth said:
Ducky you have misquoted (again) which is often your chosen path of interpration.

Didn't misquote at all.

If you thought to quote the prevoius verse you will see what Paul is stating as eternal.

2 Corin 4:17 eternal weight of "glory" beyond all comparison.

You still don't get it. The devil is there whether you believe it or not. Just like God, He is there whether we believe it or not.

But you would have us think the devil is a Lion, or maybe a Red Dragon, or maybe my dog Marli whoi is a just quietly, a demonic being which roams (back yard) devouring whom she wills. Needless to say only the birds need fear of my dog!

Now you're just plain lying.

You continue to believe in your "doctrines of demons" speaking like one who has departed from the true faith. I am amazed you quoted a verse which speaks against you?

So misguided.

Denying that Satan is at work is calling the writers of the Bible, including Jesus, liars. How many verses would you like me to quote that mention Satan/ the devil? There are many. You are "misguided". Who should we believe? You or God? You have to resort to lying because you are offended by God's Word. God's Word exposes Satan.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Do you also deny eternal punishment in Hell?

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

Duckybill said:
Didn't misquote at all.

You still don't get it. The devil is there whether you believe it or not. Just like God, He is there whether we believe it or not.

Now you're just plain lying.

Denying that Satan is at work is calling the writers of the Bible, including Jesus, liars. How many verses would you like me to quote that mention Satan/ the devil? There are many. You are "misguided". Who should we believe? You or God? You have to resort to lying because you are offended by God's Word. God's Word exposes Satan.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Do you also deny eternal punishment in Hell?

The Devil is Sin in the Flesh

The key verse is understanding Hebrews 2:14

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil"

If the devil is a supposed fallen wicked angel then . . .

Taking on flesh and blood is a strange way to battle a powerful immortal angel.

"He took not on him the nature of angels" (v.16).

Why not? Wouldnt angel nature be stronger? Why be made of flesh and blood to destroy the devil?

Doesn't this verse say that the devil is now dead not actively out deceiving souls?

No matter how you try Ducky your understanding will never provide an answer to Heb 2:14 1 John 3:8 2 Peter 2:4

FACT: Jesus took on our human nature to overcome the devil.

FACT: Jesus destroyed him (flesh and blood) that has the power of death.

FACT : The devil has the power of death and is dead to Jesus Christ.

FACT: Equating Hebrews 2:14 with other scriptures we find that “what” Christ did in his death by destroying the devil is an analogy of the destruction of sin.

(Heb. 9:26) "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

(1 Cor. 15:3) "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"

(Isa. 53:5) "But he (Jesus) was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities (sins): the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

(1 Pet. 2:24) "Who (Jesus) his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

(1 John 3:5) "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." COMPARE (1 John 3:8) "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

FACT: Sin in the flesh is the principle! (Rom 8:3) "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

There are other scriptures showing that the devil, which has the power of death, is actually sin.

(Rom. 5:12) "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

(Rom. 5:21) "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

(Rom. 6:23) "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

(1 Cor. 15:21) "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead."

(1 Cor. 15:56) "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law."

FACT: Sin comes from within a person and can only be equated to the devil by seeing that it is man's nature or his flesh. Q. Who caused sin? A. Man.

(James 1:15) "Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." See also James 4:1

(Mark 7:15-23) "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man... (23) All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

(Jer. 17:9) "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

(Eccl. 9:3) "This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead."

You should read the book of Romans because it is largely concerned with sin, its origin, and how Christ's death can save man, yet there no mention of the devil and only once is the word satan used.

The real battle is between the flesh and spirit. Two principles which are at enmity in ourselves.

(Rom. 7:18-21) "another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind".

(Rom. 8:6-7) "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

(1 John 2:16) "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

(Gal. 5:17) "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

FACT: The Devil are Those Who Manifest Flesh

FACT: Sin, as well as the devil, are personified in the Bible.

(John 8:34) "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." i.e a devil

(Romans 5:21) "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

(Romans 6:16) "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

FACT: The serpent in Genesis becomes representative of the false accuser because "thou shalt not surely die" was the first lie in the Bible. All those who manifest flesh and sin are termed the "seed of the serpent" or "of the devil".

(Gen. 3:15) "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

The Pharisees - (Mat. 23:33) "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers (=seed of the serpent), how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

(John 8:44) "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

(1 John 3:8) "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

FACT: There are Groups of people who sin termed the devil or satan.

The Roman power - (Rev. 2:10) "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Pergamos a seat of Roman power - (Rev. 2:13) "I know thy works and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth." - not hell?

The world vs. Christ's kingdom - (Rev. 20:2) "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

Christ retrains sin in the 1000 year reign where Christs Kingdom will have dominion over the Kingdom of the world.

And what do you know the Bible speaks of such a time when sin is held captive and the Kingdom begins.

(Rev. 11:15) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever...

Amen

Alethos

Duckybill · Apr 10, 2011

Fact: The devil is on the rampage. Which world do you live in?

John 8:44 (NKJV)
[sup]44 [/sup]You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

Duckybill said:
Fact: The devil is on the rampage. Which world do you live in?

John 8:44 (NKJV)
[sup]44 [/sup]You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

A real one!

Compare Matt 3:7 Matt 23:33; 1 Jo 3:8,10

Who spoke the fist lie? serpent? vipers? an animal? Pharisees? Cain? Lamech? etc....and every other human being who chooses to speak the same mind (character i.e resource)

Yes they all were slanders of Gods Children and they all were found to be a brood of vipers. Like snakes with no ears they had not truth in them and they did not speak truth because he speaks out of his own character.

You don’t have to invent supernatural beings to see that many people including a snake can be slanders. You keep quoting verses out of context and assume to venture into the make believe when the answers are right in front of you, if only you looked.

DEVIL: "Diabolos" = false accuser, liar. The Pharisees slandered Christ as illegitimate (YES?). The serpent was a false accuser of God accusing Him of an untruth (YES) Gen 3:4. Nothing more and nothing less...the FACTS present the truth.

Surely Ducky by now you can see that I have looked for your creature and still he is nowhere in the Bible!

But together as I take you through the Scriptures of truth we shall discover many more truths together. There being no fantastical demonic being is just one of them.

Alethos.

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

Duckybill said:
Fact: The devil is on the rampage. Which world do you live in?

John 8:44 (NKJV)
[sup]44 [/sup]You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Here Ducky, Jesus employ's personification in defining the spiritual heritage of the "Jews" (John 8:22). In the beginning, the serpent spoke the first lie, "Ye shall not surely die" (Gen 3:4). This lie, believed and acted upon by Eve, brought sin and consequently death into the world. The serpent became the father of liars in the same sense that Jubal became "the father of all such as handle the harp and organ" (Gen 4:21).

According to Jesus, men can have only one of two fathers: They can be the seed of Abraham (John 8:33) but only if they do the works of Abraham (John8:39) fleshly descent is not enough. Or they can be the seed of the serpent (John 8:41,44), if they do his works that is, lying, subtlety, murder etc. In seeking to kill the true "seed of Abraham" (John 8:40), these Jews were admitting that they belonged in the other family which is carnal in mind!

Jesus concluded these men think like an animal, like serpant that had voice!

So it is with us. Merely having a "name to live", and coming into the Abrahamic covenant nominally, is not enough. We must do the works of Abraham before we can claim to be his spiritual seed, and thus sons of God and heirs of God's precious promise given through Abraham. If we profess to follow Christ, while betraying him and denying him with our actions, then we have demonstrated that the Diabolism, the "serpent", is our true father, and we will never be "free".

Alethos

Duckybill · Apr 10, 2011

Truth said:
Surely Ducky by now you can see that I have looked for your creature and still he is nowhere in the Bible!

Well Satan isn't mine. You must think Jesus was a raving lunatic. He believed Satan existed and even talked to him.

John 8:44 (NKJV)
[sup]44 [/sup]You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Truth said:
Here Ducky, Jesus employ's personification in defining the spiritual heritage of the "Jews" (John 8:22). In the beginning, the serpent spoke the first lie, "Ye shall not surely die" (Gen 3:4). This lie, believed and acted upon by Eve, brought sin and consequently death into the world. The serpent became the father of liars in the same sense that Jubal became "the father of all such as handle the harp and organ" (Gen 4:21).

According to Jesus, men can have only one of two fathers: They can be the seed of Abraham (John 8:33) but only if they do the works of Abraham (John8:39) fleshly descent is not enough. Or they can be the seed of the serpent (John 8:41,44), if they do his works that is, lying, subtlety, murder etc. In seeking to kill the true "seed of Abraham" (John 8:40), these Jews were admitting that they belonged in the other family which is carnal in mind!

Jesus concluded these men think like an animal, like serpant that had voice!

So it is with us. Merely having a "name to live", and coming into the Abrahamic covenant nominally, is not enough. We must do the works of Abraham before we can claim to be his spiritual seed, and thus sons of God and heirs of God's precious promise given through Abraham. If we profess to follow Christ, while betraying him and denying him with our actions, then we have demonstrated that the Diabolism, the "serpent", is our true father, and we will never be "free".

Alethos

Like I said before, you are making a mockery of the Bible. Jesus and the Apostles believed and taught about Satan/the devil/ the evil one, and yes demons too.

1 Timothy 5:15 (NKJV)
[sup]15 [/sup]For some have already turned aside after Satan.

Matthew 13:38-42 (NKJV)
[sup]38 [/sup]The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. [sup]39 [/sup]The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. [sup]40 [/sup]Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. [sup]41 [/sup]The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, [sup]42 [/sup]and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Why Woul a Loving God Create Such a Hateful Place?

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