Why Woul a Loving God Create Such a Hateful Place?

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

Duckybill said:
Well Satan isn't mine. You must think Jesus was a raving lunatic. He believed Satan existed and even talked to him.

John 8:44 (NKJV)
[sup]44 [/sup]You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Like I said before, you are making a mockery of the Bible. Jesus and the Apostles believed and taught about Satan/the devil/ the evil one, and yes demons too.

1 Timothy 5:15 (NKJV)
[sup]15 [/sup]For some have already turned aside after Satan.

Matthew 13:38-42 (NKJV)
[sup]38 [/sup]The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. [sup]39 [/sup]The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. [sup]40 [/sup]Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. [sup]41 [/sup]The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, [sup]42 [/sup]and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Ducky,

Present your verses as you normally do, but please refrain from the personal remarks. We have been communicating long enough to know what each other believes. Deep down you know I dont make a mockery of the Bible. I have spent many years searching its pages and these truths are delightful when understood. I am happy for you to put up your devil verses and I have enjoyed explaining them to you and others.

Let there be no malice between us only a striving after truth.

Alethos

Facts for Heb 2:14 1 John 3:8 2 Peter 2:4

FACT: Jesus took on our human nature to overcome the devil.

FACT: Jesus destroyed him (flesh and blood) that has the power of death.

FACT : The devil had the power of death over Jesus Christ but is now dead becuase he overcame its lusts and temptations.

FACT : Many fasle teachers are keep in darkness (grave) awaiting judgement

Duckybill · Apr 10, 2011

Truth said:
Ducky,

Present your verses as you normally do, but please refrain from the personal remarks. We have been communicating long enough to know what each other believes. Deep down you know I dont make a mockery of the Bible.

I'm not the only one who has noticed what you are trying to do.

I have spent many years searching its pages and these truths are delightful when understood. I am happy for you to put up your devil verses and I have enjoyed explaining them to you and others.

Let there be no malice between us only a striving after truth.

Denying that Satan exists is Satanic doctrine. Far from "truth".

Facts for Heb 2:14 1 John 3:8 2 Peter 2:4

FACT: Jesus took on our human nature to overcome the devil.

FACT: Jesus destroyed him (flesh and blood) that has the power of death.

Very unclear. Satan is not "flesh and blood". And Jesus did not destroy him. You are VERY wrong.

FACT : The devil had the power of death over Jesus Christ but is now dead becuase he overcame its lusts and temptations.

TOTALLY ridiculous! The devil has never had power over Jesus. And he is not dead. Where do you get this stuff???

FACT : Many fasle teachers are keep in darkness (grave) awaiting judgement

You have offered ZERO proof that Satan is dead or powerless. Your opinion it totally opposite of God's Word. You ignore the MANY verses that teach us about Satan and how to overcome him.

Ephesians 6:10-11 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. [sup]11 [/sup]Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

You can deny Satan all you like but you're proving that he has deceived you.

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

Duckybill said:
I'm not the only one who has noticed what you are trying to do.

Denying that Satan exists is Satanic doctrine. Far from "truth".

Very unclear. Satan is not "flesh and blood". And Jesus did not destroy him. You are VERY wrong.

TOTALLY ridiculous! The devil has never had power over Jesus. And he is not dead. Where do you get this stuff???

Your scare mongering won’t stop me from teaching truth. Truth hurts you; I can see that....but let’s reconsider truth once more.

The completeness of the Word is wonderful!

Heb 2:14 Teaches otherwise...

[sup]14[/sup] Since the children have flesh and blood, he (Jesus) too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him (Flesh and Blood) who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— [sup]15[/sup] and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. (Not the Devil...ah but death)

ALL PEOPLES OF THE EARTH FEAR DEATH! NOT A SUPERNATURAL MONSTER!

Jesus was held in slavery and fear of death!

Heb 5:7 Teaches otherwise...

During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

Why did he pray to God Ducky?

What had the power over Jesus Christ and every person in the world. The devil has the power of death which is the flesh and blood from which many are enslaved.

FACT: The Devil holds the power of death
FACT: Jesus prayed to God to be released from its power
FACT: Jesus shared the same nature as you and I
FACT: Jesus through his death destroy the very thing which "had" power over him, that is the DEVIL = FLESH AND BLOOD.

FACT: He prayed with strong tear and supplications to God because he felt what it was like to be...

Hebrews 4:15 teaches us...

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin.

FACT: Jesus was flesh and blood and came under the same curse as all mankind.
FACT: Jesus was tempted in all ways yet did not give in to the works of the devil (Flesh and Blood)
FACT Conquering FLesh and Blood Jesus was released from the law of...

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Because he never earnt the wages because he never did the devils (fleshs) works 1 John 3:8.

This is the reason why Jesus was sent into the Earth to destroy that whcih had the power of death (Flesh and blood) which is the DEVIL!

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

Duckybill said:
TOTALLY ridiculous! The devil has never had power over Jesus. And he is not dead. Where do you get this stuff???

Can someone other than myself come in and explain to Ducky that Jesus was held under the power of death (devil).

I dont know if anyone out thier is respected by Ducky? but if you are reading this and you also can see Jesus was held under the power of death. Heb 2:14-15 Heb 5:7 Heb 4:15 Rom 6:23 1 John 3:8 and so on and so on...

But be gentle.

Alethos

Duckybill · Apr 11, 2011

Truth said:
Can someone other than myself come in and explain to Ducky that Jesus was held under the power of death (devil).

I dont know if anyone out thier is respected by Ducky? but if you are reading this and you also can see Jesus was held under the power of death. Heb 2:14-15 Heb 5:7 Heb 4:15 Rom 6:23 1 John 3:8 and so on and so on...

But be gentle.

You certainly don't believe in the same Jesus I do. My Jesus is Almighty God. He is all powerful and all knowing. Satan has never had power over Him and never will.

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings

Alethos · Apr 11, 2011

Duckybill said:
You certainly don't believe in the same Jesus I do. My Jesus is Almighty God. He is all powerful and all knowing. Satan has never had power over Him and never will.

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings

Ducky thats because your Jesus doesnt exist...harsh I know, but true.

Easy question Ducky, dont shy away from the truth, confront it head on with courage.

Q. Did death (devil) have power over Jesus while he was mortal? Heb 2:14

This is why your understanding of the devil has no basis. It was vital that Christ was tempted like us (Heb. 4:15), so that through his perfect overcoming of temptation he could gain forgiveness for us. The wrong desires which are the basis of our temptations come from within us (Mark 7:15-23), from within our human nature (James 1:13-15). It was necessary, therefore, that Christ should be of human nature so that he could experience and overcome these temptations. He must needs come under the power of death (devil) and taste death for all mankind (Heb 2:9)

Its an easy question which requires a yes or no answer.

A.____

Here are some verses to help you find the answer.

Heb 2:14-15 Heb 4:15 Rom 6:23 1 John 3:8

On a side note Ducky, You may like to cease with the exaggreratation, it implies a sense of desperation. Yes we have differences, but if we allow the Word to be our sole authority, we can learn together. People reading this will see that you are avoiding the Word, either because you are wrong (and there is nothing wrong with that...its how we learn) or you do not want the Word to change you or your beliefs (dangerous position to be in!)

Lets hope its the first as you can always admit being wrong and repent that you may know more about Gods Words.

Alethos.

Duckybill · Apr 11, 2011

Truth said:
Heb 2:14 Teaches otherwise...

[sup]14[/sup] Since the children have flesh and blood, he (Jesus) too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him (Flesh and Blood) who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— [sup]15[/sup] and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. (Not the Devil...ah but death)

ALL PEOPLES OF THE EARTH FEAR DEATH! NOT A SUPERNATURAL MONSTER!

MONSTER was YOUR word, not mine.

Jesus was held in slavery and fear of death!

Heb 5:7 Teaches otherwise...

During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

Why did he pray to God Ducky?

Jesus set aside His Godly powers because He chose to do so. Not because Satan had power over Him.

Philippians 2:5-8 (NKJV)
[sup]5 [/sup]Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, [sup]6 [/sup]who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, [sup]7 [/sup]but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. [sup]8 [/sup]And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

It was Jesus' choice, not Satan's.

What had the power over Jesus Christ and every person in the world. The devil has the power of death which is the flesh and blood from which many are enslaved.

Nothing or nobody has/had power over Jesus. Never has and never will, unless you want to say He submitted to God the Father. But certainly not Satan.

FACT: The Devil holds the power of death

You just contradicted your self.

FACT: Jesus prayed to God to be released from its power
FACT: Jesus shared the same nature as you and I

Are you saying Jesus had a sinful nature? Hmm

FACT: Jesus through his death destroy the very thing which "had" power over him, that is the DEVIL = FLESH AND BLOOD.

DEVIL ≠ FLESH

FACT: He prayed with strong tear and supplications to God because he felt what it was like to be...

Hebrews 4:15 teaches us...

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin.

Since Jesus NEVER sinned, Satan had no power over Him whatsoever.

FACT: Jesus was flesh and blood and came under the same curse as all mankind.

Jesus NEVER sinned.

FACT: Jesus was tempted in all ways yet did not give in to the works of the devil (Flesh and Blood)
FACT Conquering FLesh and Blood Jesus was released from the law of...

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Because he never earnt the wages because he never did the devils (fleshs) works 1 John 3:8.

This is the reason why Jesus was sent into the Earth to destroy that whcih had the power of death (Flesh and blood) which is the DEVIL!

Jesus delivered US from the power of death. He already had that power. Satan never had any power over Jesus. It surely sounds like you are calling Jesus a sinner.

Alethos · Apr 11, 2011

Duckybill said:
MONSTER was YOUR word, not mine.

Jesus set aside His Godly powers because He chose to do so. Not because Satan had power over Him.

Philippians 2:5-8 (NKJV)
[sup]5 [/sup]Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, [sup]6 [/sup]who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, [sup]7 [/sup]but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. [sup]8 [/sup]And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

It was Jesus' choice, not Satan's.

Nothing or nobody has/had power over Jesus. Never has and never will, unless you want to say He submitted to God the Father. But certainly not Satan.

You just contradicted your self.

Are you saying Jesus had a sinful nature? Hmm

DEVIL ≠ FLESH

Since Jesus NEVER sinned, Satan had no power over Him whatsoever.

Jesus NEVER sinned.

Jesus delivered US from the power of death. He already had that power. Satan never had any power over Jesus. It surely sounds like you are calling Jesus a sinner.

Ducky,

Answer the question and stop avoiding / confusing yourself.

Did death have power over Jesus while he was mortal?

Yes or No?

Heb 5:7

BTW Jesus from the time of baptism had Gods power, he didnt give it away. John 3:34-35 that comment is totally unfounded.

But stay on track.

Did death have it power over Jesus while he was alive?

Yes or No

Alethos

Duckybill · Apr 11, 2011

Truth said:
Ducky thats because your Jesus doesnt exist...harsh I know, but true.

Your Jesus isn't God? Mine is. He knows everything.

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings

Easy question Ducky, dont shy away from the truth, confront it head on with courage.

Q. Did death (devil) have power over Jesus while he was mortal? Heb 2:14

Absolutely not.

This is why your understanding of the devil has no basis. It was vital that Christ was tempted like us (Heb. 4:15), so that through his perfect overcoming of temptation he could gain forgiveness for us. The wrong desires which are the basis of our temptations come from within us (Mark 7:15-23), from within our human nature (James 1:13-15). It was necessary, therefore, that Christ should be of human nature so that he could experience and overcome these temptations. He must needs come under the power of death (devil) and taste death for all mankind (Heb 2:9)

He CHOSE to die for us. Satan didn't force Him. Jesus had the power to give His life and to take it back again.

John 10:17-18 (NKJV)
[sup]17 [/sup]Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. [sup]18 [/sup]No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

Its an easy question which requires a yes or no answer.

A.____

Here are some verses to help you find the answer.
1 John 3:8

Another contradiction. Is the devil dead or not? Please make up your mind.

1 John 3:8 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.

On a side note Ducky, You may like to cease with the exaggreratation, it implies a sense of desperation. Yes we have differences, but if we allow the Word to be our sole authority, we can learn together. People reading this will see that you are avoiding the Word, either because you are wrong (and there is nothing wrong with that...its how we learn) or you do not want the Word to change you or your beliefs (dangerous position to be in!)

Another fairy tale.

Lets hope its the first as you can always admit being wrong and repent that you may know more about Gods Words.

You'll have to correct Paul also.

Ephesians 6:10-11 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. [sup]11 [/sup]Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Truth said:
Ducky,

Answer the question and stop avoiding / confusing yourself.

Did death have power over Jesus while he was mortal?

Yes or No?

How many times do you want me to answer? My answer was "absolutely not".

Heb 5:7

BTW Jesus from the time of baptism had Gods power, he didnt give it away. John 3:34-35 that comment is totally unfounded.

Jesus set His Godly powers aside to become flesh. The Apostles also had the power of God. So what?

But stay on track.

Did death have it power over Jesus while he was alive?

Yes or No

Of course not. Nothing has/had power over God. Absolutely nothing.

Alethos · Apr 11, 2011

Duckybill said:
How many times do you want me to answer? My answer was "absolutely not".

So just to confirm you do not believe that while Jesus was alive (mortal) living his life out on the earth, he wasnt in your eyes, under the power of death. He wasnt flesh and blood?

Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— [sup]15[/sup] and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

"Jesus might break the power of him (devil) who holds the power of death"

But you imply as a result of Jesus actually being God :wacko: ...

Jesus didnt have mortal dieing nature like you and I. Heb 2:14
Jesus wasnt tempted in all points like you and I. Heb 4:15
Jesus didnt need to offer up prayers with strong crying because he wasnt really going to die anyway. Heb 5:7
So didnt need to suffer death for all men because you say he was God anyway. Heb 2:9

So why do the scipture provide these passages about his naturenot mentioning once he is God, but rather goes to great lenghts to prove his mortality (flesh and blood) and that death (devil) had power of him.

Its that power Heb 2:14 which he broke through his death.

But you are saying he didnt break that power whcih was over him?

Ducky, can you see how your understanding doesnt make sense?

Alethos

Duckybill · Apr 11, 2011

Truth said:
He wasnt flesh and blood?

Wrong again.

Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— [sup]15[/sup] and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

"Jesus might break the power of him (devil) who holds the power of death"

But you imply as a result of Jesus actually being God :wacko: ...

Jesus didnt have mortal dieing nature like you and I. Heb 2:14

That's right, He was sinless.

Jesus wasnt tempted in all points like you and I. Heb 4:15
Jesus didnt need to offer up prayers with strong crying because he wasnt really going to die anyway. Heb 5:7
So didnt need to suffer death for all men because you say he was God anyway. Heb 2:9

So why do the scipture provide these passages about his naturenot mentioning once he is God, but rather goes to great lenghts to prove his mortality (flesh and blood) and that death (devil) had power of him.

Jesus is indeed God. Who is "the Lord"? Jesus is the Lord God Almighty.

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings

Its that power Heb 2:14 which he broke through his death.

But you are saying he didnt break that power whcih was over him?

Ducky, can you see how your understanding doesnt make sense?

There was no power over Him. Never has been, never will be. Jesus is God.

Alethos · Apr 11, 2011

Duckybill said:
There was no power over Him. Never has been, never will be. Jesus is God.

2 Co 5:21 For he (God) hath made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him (Jesus).

Ducky, Do you know what it means?

"God made Jesus to be sin"

If you don’t just say so.

Alethos

Duckybill · Apr 11, 2011

Truth said:
2 Co 5:21 For he (God) hath made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him (Jesus).

Ducky, Do you know what it means?

"God made Jesus to be sin"

If you don’t just say so.

Since you've already stated that Jesus took on our nature (sinful) I suspect that you are again headed down that sinful trail.

Duckybill · Apr 11, 2011

Truth said:
But you imply as a result of Jesus actually being God :wacko: ...

Interesting indeed. Do you also deny the EVERLASTING FIRE?

Alethos · Apr 11, 2011

Duckybill said:
Since you've already stated that Jesus took on our nature (sinful) I suspect that you are again headed down that sinful trail.

No Ducky,

I am asking if you understand what 2 Cor 5:21 means?

We both agree Jesus is sinless, we agree that Jesus didnt sin! but have you considered this verse and how it applies to Jesus Christ?

Alethos

Duckybill · Apr 11, 2011

Truth said:
No Ducky,

I am asking if you understand what 2 Cor 5:21 means?

We both agree Jesus is sinless, we agree that Jesus didnt sin! but have you considered this verse and how it applies to Jesus Christ?

So tell us.

Alethos · Apr 11, 2011

<P>error</P>

Duckybill said:
So tell us.

2 Cor 5:21 "For he [God] hath made him [Christ] to be sin for us, who [Christ] knew no sin; so that we might be made the righteousness of God in him [Christ]."

This is a cause and effect verse...so let’s look at this in reverse and work backwards.

In our current state of flesh and blood we are not made righteous. Without Jesus Christ you are unrighteous in Gods sight.

Ducky, to this you would agree.

So “whatever” God did in Him making a Son with Mary, God in terming it ”made him sin for us” has enabled you and I to be made righteous in Jesus Christ.

We might not understand why God made him sin, but we understand the result brings many children into righteousness.

What does this mean?

'God made Christ, who knew no sin (as an individual, by his own actions) to be "sin" (through his head ie Adam Romans 5:12 the cause is sin which leads to death; however in Jesus case death was undeserved: see Gal 4:4; Rom 8:3; Heb 2:14,15). However for us we did not know righteousness (as individuals, by our own actions), might be made the "righteousness of God" (through our head who is Christ: so through faith we undeservedly receive righteousness, although God has made us righteous in His sight in making His son sin for us.

FACT: Christ had nothing to do with sin by his own actions, even as we have nothing to do with righteousness by our own actions.

But God made Christ to be identified with our "sin" (the nature we possess i.e. flesh and blood), as part of all mankind, though it was "undeserved"...so that we might be identified with his "righteousness" (by being "in him" through his death, resurrection and ascension), as part of Christ's "body", though we don't deserve such "righteousness".

Ducky, it’s important you understand that our nature is defiled in that we die. Within our flesh is a law which God has placed which determines our death.

This law of degeneration was working in the body of Jesus Christ when he walked this planet. When the Roman soldier thrust a spear into his side he actually bleed like you and I would if we were up there. You will recall I said “If Jesus lived to an old man, eventually, like you and I, he would have gone to the grave” Why? Because God made a mortal son “born of a woman” “made to be sin for us”.

"Sin then is synonymous for human nature, the flesh is invariably regarded as unclean. Hence why Jesus was tempted in all points like you and I.

'How can he (Jesus) be clean who is born of a woman?' Answer – He cannot! (Job 25:4) 'Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one' (Job 14:4). 'What is man that he should be clean? And he which is born of a woman that he should be righteous? Behold, God putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens (rulers) are not clean in his sight. How much more abominable and filthy is man, who drinketh iniquity (sin) like water?' (Job 15:14-16) This view of sin in the flesh enlightens us to to understand Jesus’ true nature. The apostle says, 'God made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin' (2Co 5:21); and this he explains in another place by saying, that 'He sent his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh' (Rom 8:3) in the offering of his body once (Heb 10:10,12,14).

Sin could never have been condemned in the body of Jesus, if it had not existed there! For God’s righteousness to be upheld and for every aspect of His requirements for mankind to be reconciled, God required his own son to overcome our natures impulses and also destroy the power which was not only over Jesus, but also over us here today.

In other words GOd's Righteouness had to be proven right! And the only way God would allow us to be redeemed is if one conquered its hold over mankind. Jesus on the cross did exactly that...he destroyed that which had the power of death i.e the devil.

His body (of flesh) was as unclean as the bodies of those for whom he died for; for he was born of a woman, and 'not one' can bring a clean body out of a defiled body; for 'that', says Jesus himself, 'which is born of the flesh is flesh' (John 3:6)"

Jesus was born of flesh – Jesus was born out of a sinful woman (Mary) although she is one of the most magnificent faithful woman she was a sinner and required the righteous covering of her son to save her.

So Christ was made sin in partaking of the same nature (Heb 2:14) in which sin reigns and in which sin is produced.

To put this another way Ducky, Jesus was made 'sin' in enduring the consequences of sin, sin not his own, for he did not sin, but sin which has left its effects upon the whole race of mankind in bringing all under subjection to death. You need to recognise how horrible in God's sight sin is, then we see how the effects of sin are focused as it were in His own obedient Son.

Ducky “Behold the Lamb of God, that taketh away the SIN of the world” BUT “made a curse for us', Gal 3:13"

Alethos

ps I hope these verses make more sense? Heb 2: 14-15 Heb 4:15 Heb 5:7 Heb 2:9

Duckybill · Apr 12, 2011

Truth said:
FACT: Christ had nothing to do with sin by his own actions, even as we have nothing to do with righteousness by our own actions.

What???

1 John 3:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Ducky, it’s important you understand that our nature is defiled in that we die. Within our flesh is a law which God has placed which determines our death.

That's not why Jesus died. He did not take on our nature.

This law of degeneration was working in the body of Jesus Christ when he walked this planet. When the Roman soldier thrust a spear into his side he actually bleed like you and I would if we were up there. You will recall I said “If Jesus lived to an old man, eventually, like you and I, he would have gone to the grave” Why? Because God made a mortal son “born of a woman” “made to be sin for us”.

Again, you insinuate that Jesus was a sinner.

Romans 6:23 (NKJV)
[sup]23 [/sup]For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Adam would not have died if he had not sinned.

"Sin then is synonymous for human nature, the flesh is invariably regarded as unclean. Hence why Jesus was tempted in all points like you and I.

Again you insinuate that Jesus was a sinner.

'How can he (Jesus) be clean who is born of a woman?' Answer – He cannot! (Job 25:4) 'Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one' (Job 14:4). 'What is man that he should be clean? And he which is born of a woman that he should be righteous? Behold, God putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens (rulers) are not clean in his sight. How much more abominable and filthy is man, who drinketh iniquity (sin) like water?' (Job 15:14-16) This view of sin in the flesh enlightens us to to understand Jesus’ true nature. The apostle says, 'God made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin' (2Co 5:21); and this he explains in another place by saying, that 'He sent his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh' (Rom 8:3) in the offering of his body once (Heb 10:10,12,14).

You are deceived. Jesus 'being made sin' didn't make Him a sinner. You are speaking blasphemy.

Sin could never have been condemned in the body of Jesus, if it had not existed there! For God’s righteousness to be upheld and for every aspect of His requirements for mankind to be reconciled, God required his own son to overcome our natures impulses and also destroy the power which was not only over Jesus, but also over us here today.

And again ...

In other words GOd's Righteouness had to be proven right! And the only way God would allow us to be redeemed is if one conquered its hold over mankind. Jesus on the cross did exactly that...he destroyed that which had the power of death i.e the devil.

What a Satanic fairy tale.

His body (of flesh) was as unclean as the bodies of those for whom he died for; for he was born of a woman, and 'not one' can bring a clean body out of a defiled body; for 'that', says Jesus himself, 'which is born of the flesh is flesh' (John 3:6)"

Blasphemy!

Jesus was born of flesh – Jesus was born out of a sinful woman (Mary) although she is one of the most magnificent faithful woman she was a sinner and required the righteous covering of her son to save her.

So Christ was made sin in partaking of the same nature (Heb 2:14) in which sin reigns and in which sin is produced.

To put this another way Ducky, Jesus was made 'sin' in enduring the consequences of sin, sin not his own, for he did not sin, but sin which has left its effects upon the whole race of mankind in bringing all under subjection to death. You need to recognise how horrible in God's sight sin is, then we see how the effects of sin are focused as it were in His own obedient Son.

Ducky “Behold the Lamb of God, that taketh away the SIN of the world” BUT “made a curse for us', Gal 3:13"

Alethos

ps I hope these verses make more sense? Heb 2: 14-15 Heb 4:15 Heb 5:7 Heb 2:9

You're saying Jesus didn't sin but He was a sinner. Get thee behind me Satan in Jesus' Name.

jiggyfly · Apr 12, 2011

This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for He faced all of the same temptations we do, yet He did not sin. Heb.4:15
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[font="'trebuchet ms"]He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. 1Pet.1:19
[/font]

Alethos · Apr 12, 2011

Duckybill said:
What???

1 John 3:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

That's not why Jesus died. He did not take on our nature.

Again, you insinuate that Jesus was a sinner.

Romans 6:23 (NKJV)
[sup]23 [/sup]For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. [/size]Adam would not have died if he had not sinned.

Again you insinuate that Jesus was a sinner.

You are deceived. Jesus 'being made sin' didn't make Him a sinner. You are speaking blasphemy.

And again ...

What a Satanic fairy tale.

Blasphemy!

You're saying Jesus didn't sin but He was a sinner. Get thee behind me Satan in Jesus' Name.

[/size]

Ducky your response was predictable.

Its only fair that having provided you with an interpration of 2 Cor 5:21 supported by relevant Scriptures, that you now provide us with your understanding.

"For he [God] hath made him [Christ] to be sin for us, who [Christ] knew no sin; so that we might be made the righteousness of God in him [Christ]."

I must say, I am looking forward to your response.

Alethos

jiggyfly said:
This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for He faced all of the same temptations we do, yet He did not sin. Heb.4:15

He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. 1Pet.1:19

Jigglyfly.

How did Jesus understand our weakness?

How was he able to face all our temptations?

And how do you reconcile your above answers with 2 Cor 5:21?

I look forward to your answers also.

Alethos

Why Woul a Loving God Create Such a Hateful Place?

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