Women In Leadership In the Church?

Your post reminds me of what Jesus once said to Peter. Jesus told Peter to get behind him becausehe was thinking like a human not as God thinks,

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Actually Thankful,


I believe Jesus and Paul were pretty clear about describing how humans think - humans tend to lean towards safety and legalism. They do not like to apply teachings, develop doctrine or think out of the box - way to scary! Too much room for error! We also like to guard our legalistic ideas by policing those few who do apply teachings - the Pharisees policing Jesus who was "working" on the Sabbath.


[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]Demanding that women keep their place in church because the Bible says.......is playing it safe. It refuses to recognize that Paul worked with women all the time - Jesus never told women to be conformed to societal norms, either.[/color][/font]
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[font="tahoma][color="#5D5D5D"]All, I am suggesting is that playing it safe seems like the right thing to do to stop thinking like a human rather than thinking like God, but Jesus teaches us just the opposite way to operate.[/color][/font]

One must remember that what God does and mans church does dont always ( rarely ) see eye to eye. Just because the " church " ordains a preacher does not mean He is called of God, yet so many do this not understanding the predicament they put themselves in, claiming to be sent of God yet being sent by men, claiming to be preaching the truth yet only filled with mens lies. God does not need the " church". He just need willing men and women who know the price they will pay for the truth. Is it not written in the " bible".

Jer 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace. Noticeit says, " their " sheperds, noy "my " sheperds.

Eze 34:7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:8 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
Eze 34:9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

And it was not Jesus that said women couldnt be pastors, but then people put a lot of words into His mouth.

God does not look lightly on those who claim to be His and are not.

In His Love

mjrhealth said:

One must remember that what God does and mans church does dont always ( rarely ) see eye to eye. Just because the " church " ordains a preacher does not mean He is called of God, yet so many do this not understanding the predicament they put themselves in, claiming to be sent of God yet being sent by men, claiming to be preaching the truth yet only filled with mens lies. God does not need the " church". He just need willing men and women who know the price they will pay for the truth. Is it not written in the " bible".


And it was not Jesus that said women couldnt be pastors, but then people put a lot of words into His mouth.

God does not look lightly on those who claim to be His and are not.

In His Love

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I disagree with some things that you posted. First of all, I agree that not all men are good priests. But then again, what priests are good priests when all are sinners including the Apostles. God did not choose the righteous. He chooses the sinners....sometimes even the worse sinners like St. Paul who was a murderer of Christians. We, on the other hand, should know if what the priest says is from the Holy Spirit or not. So, if a priest says that it is okay for a woman to be a priest, then he is not called by God. If a woman says that she is called to be an ordained priest, she is also not called by God. We may want a woman to be a priest, but this is not about what we want. This is about what God wants.

Secondly, it was God who built the Church. And when I say "Church" I am referring to the assembly of people. "Church" was never a building as some people actually believe it to be. The Bible says that Christ built a Church and made Himself Head of that Church. The Bible also says that the Church is pillar and foundation of Truth (See 1 Timothy 3:15), and the Bible also says to obey our Church leaders (See Hebrews 13:17).

Finally, you are correct that it was not Jesus who said that women couldn't be pastors. He did not have to say it because His actions already spoke it. All the Apostles He chose were men. Christ had many disciples and there were many women among them. Mary Magdalene and the sisters of Lazarus were women who were close to Jesus, but He did not choose any of them to become an Apostle.

It was the Holy Spirit who spoke through St. Paul saying that women are not to teach in the assembly (Church) because the men are the head of the house and represent Christ, who is Head of the Church. And the Holy Spirit and Christ are one.

In Christ,
Selene

One day, all christians will reach behind God and untie His hands so that He can do something. It is hard to work when the people you love keep your hands tied.

In His Love

mjrhealth said:

One day, all christians will reach behind God and untie His hands so that He can do something. It is hard to work when the people you love keep your hands tied.

In His Love

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My brother, God's hands is never tied down. It is us who tie ourselves down. And one day, God will reach us and untie our hands. God bless.

In Christ,
Selene

If any female has a good Word to share... share it...

If what she shares is good what Paul wrote to some church back in the day doesn't cancel that out...

If it's good it's good... and I'm sure when Paul gave that advice he was telling people what he thought was right... but that doesn't mean it's always right... that's making something said by a man the commandment of God...

WOW..I learn something new on here today...I did not know that God ordained any of the disciples to preach....Darn, there goes my theory of anyone was allowed to preach the good news...must be ordained to preach in a church, did anybody tell Paul,John or any other disciple that? Sorry no offense here, but really, the word of God does not say anything about being ordained...That is man made rules, just like it is man made rules to be lawfully married you have to have a piece of paper, can't just stand before God and accept each other in God's name....

Shep said:

WOW..I learn something new on here today...I did not know that God ordained any of the disciples to preach....Darn, there goes my theory of anyone was allowed to preach the good news...must be ordained to preach in a church, did anybody tell Paul,John or any other disciple that? Sorry no offense here, but really, the word of God does not say anything about being ordained...That is man made rules, just like it is man made rules to be lawfully married you have to have a piece of paper, can't just stand before God and accept each other in God's name....

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Hello Shep,

I think you missed the point. No one here said that ONLY the Apostles were to go out and preach. Both the Apostles and the disciples were allowed to go out and preach, but NOT all the disciples were called by God to be ordained priests. There is a difference between a disciple and an Apostle. A disciple is a learner or a pupil, but an Apostle is a person sent forth by God with ORDERS from God. The word "ordained" comes from the Latin word "ordinare" which means "to order" or "to appointed." Were the Apostles appointed? Yes, they were appointed by God among His many disciples. Did they received Orders from God? Yes, they did.

Furthermore, there is such a thing as office of Bishop mentioned in the Bible (See 1 Timothy 3:1). Just because you don't see the word "ordained" in the Bible does not mean that there is no such thing as an ordained priest. All the Apostles were ordained bishops. St. Peter called himself a priest or a bishop, and he was "ordained" in the sense that he was appointed an Apostle and ordered by Christ to go out into the world to preach the Gospels. The word "Holy Trinity" also does not appear in the Bible, but do you believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is God?

If you had read all the posts, you would have known that nowhere did I ever say that ONLY the Apostles can preach. In fact, I even stated in two of my posts under this thread that a woman can preach the Word of God; however, she cannot be an "ordained priest" because it goes against Scripture.

In Christ,
Selene

Sorry but I disagree totally with that, I have read the word and Titus, Timothy, and all the rest really carefully and find no where in the Word of God where He ordained anyone....Also if going on what you have just stated, that women can't be ordained to preach the Gospel, how in the world do you know God has not called them to Preach the Gospel?...I have not missed a point, but agree with a some of the things that has been posted, I just think when someone makes such bold statements as people have to be ordained, mercy that just smacks me in the face, with Where in the Word does it even say such statements? So according to most here, it is okay to teach the gospel, but not preach by women.. and if God has called some to be Prophetess and they speak the Word of God to those so called ordained men of God.......I think God is just fine with a Women teaching His Truth as long as it is the Truth, which in MHO, most men can't do....they have to bend or twist the Truth to fit their mindsets....I think I will just have to find in the Word, where that clearly says that, God does Not want a Women to Preach His Word, for sugar..If it is not in the Word of God...It ain't truth....So I will just agree to disagree...and will just butt out, cause this only grieves my spirit and me..

Love ya'll and thanks for letting me have my say, will keep reading cause some have interesting thoughts, just don't agree..better to keep my mouth shut
Shep

Shep said:

Sorry but I disagree totally with that, I have read the word and Titus, Timothy, and all the rest really carefully and find no where in the Word of God where He ordained anyone....Also if going on what you have just stated, that women can't be ordained to preach the Gospel, how in the world do you know God has not called them to Preach the Gospel?...I have not missed a point, but agree with a some of the things that has been posted, I just think when someone makes such bold statements as people have to be ordained, mercy that just smacks me in the face, with Where in the Word does it even say such statements? So according to most here, it is okay to teach the gospel, but not preach by women.. and if God has called some to be Prophetess and they speak the Word of God to those so called ordained men of God.......I think God is just fine with a Women teaching His Truth as long as it is the Truth, which in MHO, most men can't do....they have to bend or twist the Truth to fit their mindsets....I think I will just have to find in the Word, where that clearly says that, God does Not want a Women to Preach His Word, for sugar..If it is not in the Word of God...It ain't truth....So I will just agree to disagree...and will just butt out, cause this only grieves my spirit and me..

Love ya'll and thanks for letting me have my say, will keep reading cause some have interesting thoughts, just don't agree..better to keep my mouth shut
Shep

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Hello Shep,

First you say that there is nowhere in the word of God where He ordained anyone. Then in your next sentence, you ask why women can't be ordained to preach the Gosepl. It seems to me that you understood what "ordained" means afterall. If you had read the entire thread, I already explained why women cannot be ordained priests.

In Christ,
Selene

UHCAIan said:

Women are called to ordained church work as well as preaching. God calls them to prophesy which in Greek means to proclaim and proclaim means to preach. Men and women are called to lead His people. As long as He has called them and that they are teaching Jesus Christ died, resurrected and ascended and sound doctrine then I do not see a problem!

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I agree that women can work in the Church and that they can preach and even evangelize. But they cannot be ordained priests. Women can do all the preaching they want, and God can call them to preach.....but again they cannot become priests. Why? Because they are not the head of the house.

As I pointed out to you in Scripture, the Angel Gabriel goes to the head of the household. He went to Zachariah because he was the head of the household, not Ellizabeth. The Angel Gabriel spoke to Mary ONLY when she was unmarried. AFTER she got married, the Angel Gabriel never went to Mary. He went to Joseph because Joseph is the head of the house.

Now, do you know who Satan went to speak to in the Garden of Eden? He went to Eve. Now, why do you think the devil approached Eve instead of Adam?????? Was Eve the head of the house?

The woman already can preach just like anyone else......but what else is the modern world tempting her with??? The modern world tempts the woman to take away the man's status as "head of the house." Isn't the woman satisfied with the fact that she already have the authority to preach and evangelize????? So, what more does she want? She wants to take away her husband's status as Head of the household? Didn't Jesus say not to follow the ways of the world? Our Lord tells us not to follow the ways of the world because the ways of the world is the devil's ways.

Jesus did not choose any woman to become an Apostle because a woman is not the head of God's family (Church). Nowhere in the Bible will you find a woman to be a priest or a bishop. Why? Because a man represents Christ, who is Head of the Church while a woman represents the body of Christ (the Church). Because the man represents the Head, it is ONLY the man who can become an ordain priest. And you will always find God and the good angels approaching the head of the household. Afterall, even God spoke to Abraham (the head of the household). He never approached Sarah, Abraham's wife. The Holy Spirit is in every man, woman, and child and are called to preach, but only ONE gender can become a priest.....and that would be the man, who is head of the house.

Show me where in Scripture did Christ pick a woman to become an Apostle. Show me where in Scripture do you see a woman as a priest. Did you not know that the only priestresses you find are those who were pagans. The Jews were God's chosen people and God did not allow His chosen people to have female priests. The Christians were God's chosen Church, and nowhere in the Bible do you find any female priests. Priestresses are found only in the pagan world.

In Christ,
Selene

My brother, God's hands is never tied down. It is us who tie ourselves down. And one day, God will reach us and untie our hands. God bless.

In Christ,
Selene

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Its our unbelief and religion that ties Gods hands. If we let Him have His way, and trysted Him the world would be a much nicer place.

In His Love

PS Being ordained means nothing to God its a man thing.

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The Christians were God's chosen Church, and nowhere in the Bible do you find any female priests.

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And now God is building you, as living stones, into his spiritual temple. What's more, you are God's holy priests, who offer the spiritual sacrifices that please him because of Jesus Christ. 1Peter2:5
But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are a kingdom of priests, God's holy nation, his very own possession. This is so you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.1Peter2:9

There's a vast difference between God's ekklesia and religious institutions, the clergy/laity system is part of the man-made religious institution.

Yep...

We're all a royal priesthood... my experience is people who don't want us to recognize that tend to be those who make money off being seen as the only ones rightfully deserving of receiving money by separating themselves as the priesthood... you can't tell people the truth about Christ and still make a business out of Him... or else you could say you can't serve God and money...

mjrhealth said:

Its our unbelief and religion that ties Gods hands. If we let Him have His way, and trysted Him the world would be a much nicer place.

In His Love

PS Being ordained means nothing to God its a man thing.

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My brother, since when is man's unbeliefs and religion so powerful enough to tie God's hands?

Being ordained means nothing to God? Tell that to God for appointing MEN to be His Apostles. Ordain means to appoint.

In Christ,
Selene

The first evangelists were women - and they taught men the first Christian truth. Jesus is alive!

jiggyfly said:

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And now God is building you, as living stones, into his spiritual temple. What's more, you are God's holy priests, who offer the spiritual sacrifices that please him because of Jesus Christ. 1Peter2:5
But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are a kingdom of priests, God's holy nation, his very own possession. This is so you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.1Peter2:9

There's a vast difference between God's ekklesia and religious institutions, the clergy/laity system is part of the man-made religious institution.

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And as I said, we are all called to preach and evangelize regardless of whether one is a male or a female. But show me where in the Bible did it say that Christ appointed women to become an Apostle? Show me where in the Bible do you even see a female priest? We have followed God's will because His will is to have man as head of the God's house. Those who appoint women to become head of God's house is following a foreign religion.

1 Corinthians 11:13 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

God's Church is God's family. Who is the head of every family? It is the man because the head of the woman is man. And in God's family, who is the head? It is Christ. I was never against a woman preaching or evangelizing. What I was against was a woman being a priest because God has NEVER called a woman to become a LEADER to lead His Church. The role of an "ordained priest" is the role of a leader.....a leader who leads. Search the Bible in the Old and New Testament....and show me where God called a woman to become a priest in the synagogues or in His Church. As for St. Peter's comment about everyone being a royal priesthood, that is exactly what Moses said to the Hebrews.

Exodus 19:6 And you shall be to me a priestly kingdom, and a holy nation. Those are the words thou shalt speak to the children of Israel.

As you can see, even Israel became a holy nation and a priesthood. All of Israel could preach the Torah including the women, but who were the ordained priests in Israel. It was the men.

Exodus 30:30 Thou shalt anoint Aaron and his sons, and shalt sanctify them, that they may do the office of priesthood unto me.

As anyone can see, despite the fact that God called all the men and women of Israel to become a priestly kingdom and holy nation, God only ordered Araon and his sons to the OFFICE of priesthood....that means "a priest to do ceremonies and teachings as they LEAD God's chosen family." No "daughters" were mentioned to become priests or temple leaders. So, now let's move on to the New Testament. God spoke through St. Peter saying:

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Now, today, some people think that God changed????? God actually changed? Jesus chose only MEN to become Apostles. And in the Bible, ONLY men became priests leading the Church. This does not mean that women cannot preach. It only means that women cannot become priests or leaders of the assembly. So, who are we to follow? Are we to follow the unchanging God who appointed only men to take the role of priests in His Church or are we to follow the women's liberation movement? I will follow Christ.

In Christ,
Selene

aspen said:

The first evangelists were women - and they taught men the first Christian truth. Jesus is alive!

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Exactly! Women can become preachers and evangelists, but they cannot become priests (leaders) of the Assembly. That role fell to the men.

Women were deacons in the NT. Deacons are ordained in the Catholic Church. Romans 16:1

aspen said:

Women were deacons in the NT. Deacons are ordained in the Catholic Church. [font="Verdana][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+16:1&version=NIV"]Romans 16:1[/url][/font]

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Sorry Aspen, Phebe was not an ordained deacon. The Greek words for "minister" and "servant" is the same as the Greek word for "deacon." Strong's bilbical translation used the word "office of deacon" three times in the New Testament, and Romans 16:1 is not one of them. In the Roman Catholic Church, I am a female "minister." I am actually a Minister of the Word, but my position as minister is not an ordained one.

In Christ,
Selene