The problem with the thousand years?

Marty fox · Sep 4, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
I believe your symbolic representing of the mark and image worship is in error, as scripture strongly suggest below

Revelation 14:6-11KJV
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Your scriptures are proving my point that all who have the mark will perish.

John 3:16 for example says that anyone who believes in Jesus will be saved. It doesn’t say anyone who believes in Jesus will be saved unless they have the mark. Thus a literal mark can’t be or else scripture would contradict itself.

If God would forgive Paul who persecuted the church then wouldn’t God forgive someone who repents of receiving the mark?

Of course He would because its the nature of Gods heart. Thus the mark can’t be literal but a symbolic mark of unrepentant devotion to the beast.

Timtofly · Sep 4, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
The Souls Seen In Revelation 20:4-6 Are Waiting On The Second Coming Last Day Resurrection, And Are Not Resurrected As You Claim

Once again

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

3 Resurrections and all physical.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."

There was a physical resurrection at the Cross.

There will be a resurrection at the Second Coming.

There will not be a resurrection at the end because those on earth are not dead, but those alive on earth will still count. Unless you allow for those in sheol a resurrection to eternal life, what physical resurrection is there?

Many ignore the first resurrection at the Cross and then claim no one at the GWT are given eternal life.

So until you are going to define a physical resurrection, your accusations are rather pointless. If you combine the Second Coming with the end, then you deny a physical Second Coming. That is hard to prove with any Scripture.

What most of church history has failed to grasp is that at the Second Coming there will be no more of Adam's flesh and blood alive. That is not an excuse to totally dismiss the Millennium. The Millennium is not about the church, but about a physical resurrection. Not back to corruptible physical bodies, but the Millennium is about humans in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. For one simple reason.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

You cannot escape the second death if you live again in a sin corrupted body without consequences. That makes no sense. To escape the second death, one has to have a sin free permanent incorruptible body.

Now apply that to all in Christ who have the first resurrection. All of those removed from Abraham's bosom at the Cross. All of those who leave this physical body for the permanent one in Paradise. How do these not have bodies now?

Timtofly · Sep 4, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
A literal future mark and worship of an image, that takes place in a future great tribulation, that begins in the future revealing of Daniel's (Little Horn) Paul's (Man Of Sin) John's (The Beast) a literal individual human man a king/ruler of Jewish/Hebrew decent in Jerusalem, proclaiming to be Messiah God to the Jews

Is this mark while Satan is bound, or loosed?

Truth7t7 · Sep 4, 2021

Waiting on him said:
To be a Christian in the first century was social suicide, most likely why the church there in Jerusalem was starving.

What's the point?

You post riddles without claims being made for discussion, why?

Truth7t7 · Sep 4, 2021

Timtofly said:
Is this mark while Satan is bound, or loosed?

You have been shown several times,satan is bound from only one specific purpose, deceiving the nations to the final battle

Satan isnt bound from evil in this world presently, nor in the future, simple,clear, easy to understand

Timtofly · Sep 4, 2021

Waiting on him said:
All the kings of Israel, including the almighty King?

The point Israel is many nations. How were they any nations before 1600?

Marty fox · Sep 4, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Marty you believe and teach Matthew 24:15 below was fulfilled in the 70AD destruction by Roman armies of Jerusalem

Marty the scripture before your eyes teaches otherwise, as it's a future event unfulfilled, simple, clear, and very easy to understand

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

The bad guy below that causes Daniel's AOD seen in Matthew 24:15 will be present on earth to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End)

Scripture clearly teaches that the event is future, and didnt take place in 66-70AD in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, as Preterism claims

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation
1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signaturespecifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

The Jews living during the time of the Maccabees suffering the wrath of Antiochus Epehanies who read Daniels prophecies would disagree with you.

Jesus referred back to Daniel showing that what happened in the past would also happen in the future but this time there would be no Judas the hammer Maccabees to save them

If it’s future then how come there’s is no mention of a desecrated temple in revelation?

Waiting on him · Sep 4, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
What's the point?

You post riddles without claims being made for discussion, why?

It’s just all so cryptic, and it’s so easy to have a myopic point of view.

Truth7t7 · Sep 4, 2021

Timtofly said:
3 Resurrections and all physical.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."

There was a physical resurrection at the Cross.

There will be a resurrection at the Second Coming.

There will not be a resurrection at the end because those on earth are not dead, but those alive on earth will still count. Unless you allow for those in sheol a resurrection to eternal life, what physical resurrection is there?

Many ignore the first resurrection at the Cross and then claim no one at the GWT are given eternal life.

So until you are going to define a physical resurrection, your accusations are rather pointless. If you combine the Second Coming with the end, then you deny a physical Second Coming. That is hard to prove with any Scripture.

What most of church history has failed to grasp is that at the Second Coming there will be no more of Adam's flesh and blood alive. That is not an excuse to totally dismiss the Millennium. The Millennium is not about the church, but about a physical resurrection. Not back to corruptible physical bodies, but the Millennium is about humans in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. For one simple reason.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

You cannot escape the second death if you live again in a sin corrupted body without consequences. That makes no sense. To escape the second death, one has to have a sin free permanent incorruptible body.

Now apply that to all in Christ who have the first resurrection. All of those removed from Abraham's bosom at the Cross. All of those who leave this physical body for the permanent one in Paradise. How do these not have bodies now?

There is one time of the future resurrection of "All" that have lived, this takes place at the second coming

Waiting on him · Sep 4, 2021

Timtofly said:
The point Israel is many nations. How were they any nations before 1600?

Genesis 25:23 KJV
[23] And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Truth7t7 · Sep 4, 2021

Waiting on him said:
It’s just all so cryptic, and it’s so easy to have a myopic point of view.

Nothing cryptic about the scripture as you claim, Jesus said nothing in secret, let alone being occultic

John 18:20KJV
20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of cryptic

1: SECRET, OCCULT
2a: having or seeming to have a hidden or ambiguous meaning : MYSTERIOUS

Timtofly · Sep 4, 2021

Marty fox said:
I said that we die physically

We are already dead physically. You mean no longer in a corruptible body. Colossians 3:1-3

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."

This is a dead flesh body. It needs a resurrection more than those in Paradise, who have passed from death into life.

Do you not view going to Paradise a resurrection? Why would some have bodies and others do not? Are you saying that even permanent incorruptible bodies are not allowed in Paradise?

Waiting on him · Sep 4, 2021

Marty fox said:
The Jews living during the time of the Maccabees suffering the wrath of e/.33/333333/3ssseawAA as Antiochus Epehanies who read Daniels prophecies would disagree with you.

Jesus referred back to Daniel showing that what happened in the past would also happen in the future but this time there would be no Judas the hammer Maccabees to save them

If it’s future then how come there’s is no mention of a desecrated temple in revelation?

Truth7t7 said:
Nothing cryptic about the scripture as you claim, Jesus said nothing in secret, let alone being occultic

John 18:20KJV
20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of cryptic

1: SECRET, OCCULT
2a: having or seeming to have a hidden or ambiguous meaning : MYSTERIOUS

nothing mysterious about Scripture to you, interesting.

Waiting on him · Sep 4, 2021

cryp·tic
/ˈkriptik/
Learn to pronounce

adjective

1.
having a meaning that is mysterious or obscure.
"he found his boss's utterances too cryptic"

Timtofly · Sep 4, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Your claim is in big error, and in direct opposition to scripture seen below

Your views in theology are hard to be taken seriously, the very basics as seen presented

Hebrews 9:27KJV
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Are you in a dead physical fleshly body, or still living in a carnal body alive and enjoying sin?

I was born dead. I accepted that at an early age. I am not perfect, but alive in Christ. Already judged in the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth.

Truth7t7 · Sep 4, 2021

Marty fox said:
The Jews living during the time of the Maccabees suffering the wrath of Antiochus Epehanies who read Daniels prophecies would disagree with you.

Jesus referred back to Daniel showing that what happened in the past would also happen in the future but this time there would be no Judas the hammer Maccabees to save them

If it’s future then how come there’s is no mention of a desecrated temple in revelation?

Marty the very thing you have denounced, is what you follow, a double minded man is unstable in all his ways, James 1:8

You denounce the historical church fathers in dating the revelation in post #257, then in the same breath you look to history in the maccabeean revolt and Antiochus Epiphanies for your truth, isnt that considered a double standard?

No need to look at mans history, the bad guy is on this earth to the Consummation or (The Ultimate End) causing abomination and desolation, a future event unfulfilled, Riddlebarger and Gentry are teaching in error, just as Darby, Scofield, Lindsey, and the rest of Dispensationalism's teachers

Marty you wont receive or believe this truth before your eyes, why?

The bad guy below that causes Daniel's AOD seen in Matthew 24:15 will be present on earth to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End)

Scripture clearly teaches that the event is future, and didnt take place in 66-70AD in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, as Preterism claims

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation
1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signaturespecifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Waiting on him · Sep 4, 2021

Timtofly said:
I was born dead. I accepted that at an early age. I am not perfect, but alive in Christ. Already judged in the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth.

When do you see this foundation as being laid?

Waiting on him · Sep 4, 2021

Jeremiah 4:27-31 KJV
[27] For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. [28] For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. [29] The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein. [30] And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life. [31] For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.

Marty fox · Sep 4, 2021

Timtofly said:
We are already dead physically. You mean no longer in a corruptible body. Colossians 3:1-3

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."

This is a dead flesh body. It needs a resurrection more than those in Paradise, who have passed from death into life.

Do you not view going to Paradise a resurrection? Why would some have bodies and others do not? Are you saying that even permanent incorruptible bodies are not allowed in Paradise?

No what I said was did Jesus Jesus save us physically or spiritually with His spiritual death?

He saved us spiritually as will will never spiritually die but our bodies will physically die

Waiting on him · Sep 4, 2021

Waiting on him said:
though thou rentest thy face with painting,

Matthew 6:16 KJV
[16] Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Revelation 17:4 KJV
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

The problem with the thousand years?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads