Postmillenial Partial Preterism...What is it? A Victorious View of the Gospel.

Truth7t7 · Sep 9, 2021

Iconoclast said:
If you could read it with understanding you would see it says;

THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN...
He is reigning from the Heavenly Throne.
His prophecy of the temple destruction was the sign.
I have no need to convince you....I just understand what the sign is.

The "Parallel" teaching of Matthew 24:30 below

Eyes seeing Jesus and heads lifting up for their redemption, and to claim this isnt literally seen "Scary"!

Luke 21:27-28KJV
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Hidden In Him · Sep 9, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Gentry's claim that Zechariah 14:1-2 pertains to Jerusalem and the Roman destruction in 70AD is a farce in several points, as Zechariah 14:2 clearly shows "All Nations" will be gathered, depicting the future battle of Armageddon

On that one fact alone, Gentry's claims of 70AD fulfillment are in the trash can

Zechariah 14:1-2KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Greetings, 7t7. Been a while since I've seen you on. I'm not active right now, although I still check in from time to time to try and keep up to date.

About this thread, I disagree with Gentry and Barnes as well. Regarding the literal second coming, they spiritualize the sun, moon and stars where these should not be. As Peter said:

3 ...there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

The "Day of the Lord" Peter is referring to here would have to be the second coming, since he mentions the heretics saying, "Where is the promise of His coming?" and then describes the event as being accompanied by the earth's destruction. The fires which melt the firmament and its "elements" (i.e the stars) has to be taken as an effect upon the literal stars of Heaven here, otherwise the flood would have to be spiritualized as well, and Peter clearly implied it was a literal judgment upon the earth that befell the wicked.

Iconoclast said:
This post exposes you as imbecilic. Have you read any of His books?
His book on the Greatness of the Great Commission is one of the best works available.
I know you think your posts, and little tweets are equal, but you are a bit deluded with that.
Keep this kind of idiotic post on your premill, wild speculation threads.

Greetings, Iconoclast.

I was going to welcome you to the forum as well, as I enjoy a good discussion of scripture, but this post is uncalled for. Using the words "imbecilic" and "idiotic" not only break with 2 Timothy 2:25, but run a close parallel with Matthew 5:22.

Do you defend this kind of posting, or admit your emotions were getting the better of you here?

God bless,
Hidden In Him

@marks. Hello, brother. Hope you are well.
- H

Davy · Sep 9, 2021

Iconoclast said:
You cannot speak to the scriptures so you attempt a personal attack.
There are many internet Rambo's who do this.
You think this helps you hide your inability to interact with scripture.
It does not.

God's written Word is not that difficult to understand, for those who heed what Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15...

2 Tim 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
KJV

Your post #353 reveals you don't do that, but instead look for what the majority thinks.

The reality is that the majority are not often correct, so that is not something to put one's trust in. We are to put our trust in God Himself, and not men. This doesn't mean God didn't provide us with scholarly Bible tools to help our Bible study, but it does mean that we each still MUST... go directly to Him and ask Him to reveal His Word to us.

Davy · Sep 9, 2021

Iconoclast said:
It does not say he wrote to the future church.
It says he wrote to them.
Just like Revelation was written to 7 literal churches in Asia.
You claim all manner of things but prove nothing.
Repeating Zech.14 a dozen times does not change it.

Anyone that studies all... of Christ's Book of Revelation realizes that it was written for ALL CHURCHES, and not just those existing in Apostle John's day. The revelation of events leading all the way up to Christ's future 'literal' return back to this earth requires it being a Book of prophecy of end time events all the way to the final generation on earth!

But what you do, is listen to men's false leaven doctrines, even those who create a 'cult', that deny Christ's Revelation for the end of this world.

What you show is men's FALSE seminary doctrines of Full Preterism, a false belief that Bible prophecy has been completed, and that even Christ's future literal return is a myth! Those ideas are NOT related to the original Bible Christian doctrines that Christ and His Apostles taught. Those ideas you push are related to the occultist's NEW WORLD ORDER beliefs, which are followers of the devil, and are helping the devil to prepare the world to receive him instead.

It won't matter though, even for the short period coming when the orthodox Jews build their new temple in Jerusalem, as they already have the materials ready to do it. The devil coming as the pseudo-Messiah there to sit in that new temple and play Christ will not be accepted by all, even under their murders those you follow will do upon Christ's elect saints.

Ronald Nolette · Sep 9, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
"Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means"

Scripture Is Very Clear, The Church Will Be Present On Earth To Witness The Man Of Sin Revealed, You're In Denial Of Gods Words Before Your Eyes

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I agree with all this. You rpoint?

Ronald Nolette · Sep 9, 2021

Iconoclast said:
Quoting these verses does not make your wild assertions credible. Dr. Gentry has forgotten more scripture than you will ever know.
I notice you do not actually quote what he offers and show it to be false. Your offering of these verses does not begin to make your case.

To you because you do not believe in a literal translation of Scripture. Maybe he has , or maybe he hasn't. I laugh at your opinions based on foolishness and lack of knowledge.

As I only know th elittle bits posted by truth and his comments, I can only respond to those. But unless trutht7 is lying Gentry may haqve lots of knowledge, but has veered from the truth.

Ronald Nolette · Sep 9, 2021

Iconoclast said:
A yet you cannot refute anything he wrote,,,imagine that.

You are quick to set aside a gifted and trained person, and cannot answer anything he has written.
You two skip over it and make believe as if he has not answered your speculations about chips, renewed animal sacrifice and other such absurdities.

Well post something he has written on escatology and let us see. I do not follow every person who writes on eschatology. too many books too many false doctrines to sort through.

but post something I can read and let us see. Gifted and trained people can be wrong. If they are trained wrong.

Well I have not read the post where someone cited Gentry on microchips, renewed animal sacrifices as set forth in the OT prophecies of the millenial kingdom etc. so cite something I can read online and I will see what he says.

Truth7t7 · Sep 9, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
I agree with all this. You rpoint?

It was written to a preterist, is that you?

Truth7t7 · Sep 9, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
Well post something he has written on escatology and let us see. I do not follow every person who writes on eschatology. too many books too many false doctrines to sort through.

but post something I can read and let us see. Gifted and trained people can be wrong. If they are trained wrong.

Well I have not read the post where someone cited Gentry on microchips, renewed animal sacrifices as set forth in the OT prophecies of the millenial kingdom etc. so cite something I can read online and I will see what he says.

Post #263 below

Gentry Is A Hack, Yes He Falsely Teaches Zechariah 14 Was Fulfilled In 70AD, His Commentary Below

ZECHARIAH 14 IN POSTMILLENNIALISM (2)
Dispensationalism, Objections, Old Testament May 11, 2021 Comments: 2

PMW 2021-038 by Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr.

In my last article I began a two-part study on Zechariah 14. Having presented the dispensational view, I will now present a postmillennial interpretation of this famous passage.

The Siege of Jerusalem

The siege of Jerusalem described in Zechariah 14:1–2 points to the AD 70 judgment upon Jerusalem. J. Dwight Pentecost admits that the disciples who hear the Olivet Discourse would naturally apply Zechariah 14 to that event. But then, he says, such requires the confusing of God’s program for the church with that for Israel. So, he and other dispen-sationalists interpret the passage literalistically, with all the topographical and redemptive historical absurdities this creates. As they do this they totally omit any reference to the destruction of the very city and temple being rebuilt in Zechariah’s day. Yet this literal temple (the second temple) is destroyed in AD 70, as all agree.

Zechariah 14:1–2 pictures the Roman imperial forces joining the various client kings who engage the Jewish War AD 67–70. This war is conducted by an empire of “nations” (v 2), consisting not only of the Romans but the lands of Syria, Asia Minor, Palestine, Gaul, Egypt, Britain, and others. Client kings, such as Antiochus, Agrippa, Sohemus, Malchus, and Alexander, provide auxiliary forces for Rome during the Jewish War (J.W. 2:18:9; 3:4:2; 5:1:6). The consequences are disastrous: much of Israel’s population is either killed or led captive. D. A. Carson observes that never was “so high a percentage of a great city so thoroughly and painfully exterminated and enslaved as during the Fall of Jerusalem.” Yet the Lord defends those who are truly his people, insuring their escape from the besieged city (vv 3–4).

Great Tribulation: Past or Future?
(Thomas Ice v. Ken Gentry)

Debate book on the nature and timing of the great tribulation. Both sides thoroughly cover the evidence they deem necessary, then interact with each other.

See more study materials at: www.KennethGentry.com

The Lord will fight for his true people “as when he fought in the day of battle” (v 4). The Lord’s feet standing on the Mount of Olives and his fighting for his people need be no more literal than other references regarding the Lord’s fighting for Israel in the Old Testament. The language is similar to that in Joshua 10:14, 42 and 23:3, where the Lord “fought for Israel.” In Joshua these references indicate his providential favor in Israel’s victory and deliverance, not his corporeal presence. Prophecy often mentions God’s feet when his and Israel’s enemies are thwarted and are given success against all odds (Ps 18:9; Isa 60:13; Nah 1:3; Hab 3:5).

The Cleaving of Olivet

The cleaving of the Mount of Olives under him employs the common imagery of God’s conquering and restraining power in Old Testament prophecy. In Micah 1:3–4 we read that “the LORD is coming out of His place; He will come down and tread on the high places of the earth. The mountains will melt under him, and the valleys will split like wax before the fire, like waters poured down a steep place.” Even dispensationalists admit this speaks of the Old Testament subjugation of Israel under heathen nations for her sin. Mentioning the direction of the cleft “indicates the direction of their flight,” i.e., the Christians who flee Jerusalem when God judges it. They ultimately flee to all points of the compass, taking the gospel with them (cf. vv 8–9).

In the latter part of verse 5 the coming judgment upon Jerusalem, which disperses the Christians over the Roman Empire, is ultimately God’s coming in angelic judgment (“holy ones” are angels). Jerusalem’s destruction by Rome is providential destruction by “his armies” (Mt 22:7). It leads to darkness and woe upon Israel (Zec 14:6–7; cf. Ac 2:20, 22; Mt 24:29). Yet, as Jerusalem collapses and Christianity separates from her Jewish constraints, the waters of life begin flowing out into all the world (v 8; cp. Mt 24:14; Ac 1:8; 9:15). The Lord’s kingdom overflows Israel’s limited borders so that the he becomes the King of all the earth (v 9; Mt 28:18–19; Eph 1:20–21).

The subsequent topographical and liturgical references figuratively portray the ethical and spiritual changes that occur under Christ’s spir-itual administration as his worship spreads through the earth (vv 10ff). Even Jerusalem and the Jews shall be nourished by the waters of life eventually (vv 10–11; cf. Eze 47:1ff; Jn 7:38–39). The enemies of God’s people will either be vanquished (vv 12–13, 14), converted (vv 16, 20–21), or reduced to insignificance

Iconoclast · Sep 9, 2021

Hidden In Him,

Hello H.I.H.
I am going to address your post in two parts. You can believe whatever you want of course, but I recommend you view the offered material. Take the time to read the first 8 posts to see the design of the thread.

[About this thread, I disagree with Gentry and Barnes as well. Regarding the literal second coming, they spiritualize the sun, moon and stars where these should not be.]

One purpose of this thread is to address such objections...I do not think they spiritualize the Sun ,moon, and stars.
While they see them as symbols that have a literal meaning which is consistently used in scripture by God.
As Peter said:

The "Day of the Lord" Peter is referring to here would have to be the second coming, since he mentions the heretics saying, "Where is the promise of His coming?" and then describes the event as being accompanied by the earth's destruction. The fires which melt the firmament and its "elements" (i.e the stars) has to be taken as an effect upon the literal stars of Heaven here, otherwise the flood would have to be spiritualized as well, and Peter clearly implied it was a literal judgment upon the earth that befell the wicked.

If you could, respond to what you think is being described here.Mt24;
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall

the sun be darkened,

and the moon shall not give her light,

and the stars shall fall from heaven,

and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,

and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev6:
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo,

there was a great earthquake;

and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair,

and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together;

and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks,

Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

How do you understand these passages, and why?
Is it the end of time?
Why do you think it is?
Are these descriptions literal?

Hidden In Him · Sep 9, 2021

Iconoclast said:
I am going to address your post in two parts. You can believe whatever you want of course, but I recommend you view the offered material. Take the time to read the first 8 posts to see the design of the thread.

One purpose of this thread is to address such objections...I do not think they spiritualize the Sun ,moon, and stars.
While they see them as symbols that have a literal meaning which is consistently used in scripture by God.

Blessings.

I understood your argument. By spiritualizing, I simply meant interpreting them as referring to rulers rather than the literal sun, moon and stars.

I would respond to your questions, only as I said I am not really active right now so no time for going through things, but maybe we'll have some friendly discussions on theology down the road.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

Iconoclast · Sep 9, 2021

Greetings, Iconoclast.

[I was going to welcome you to the forum as well, as I enjoy a good discussion of scripture, but this post is uncalled for. Using the words "imbecilic" and "idiotic" not only break with 2 Timothy 2:25, but run a close parallel with Matthew 5:22.

Do you defend this kind of posting, or admit your emotions were getting the better of you here?]

I do not care to post like this, if it was just personal attacks against me it would not bother me as I have already had people questioning my salvation, saying I am in a false teaching cult and worse. I do not have thin skin and know there will be gracelss comments from time to time.
The comments that I find offensive and slanderous were directed to Dr,Gentry and others who hold that view.

1]Kenneth Gentry is a for profit business, his website has untold books of error for sale on "Donation"?

2]Can users obtain books free of charge, truly a sign of a biblical ministry?

website: www.KennethGentry.com.

$Real Big Smiles$

3]Ken Gentry is in the same vein of the rest of the for profit $orgs$ teachings in error

2 Peter 2:1-3KJV
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

4]You deny a future literal eternal kingdom with the literal river of life present, and you claim I'm infected with "hyper literal speculation", Big Smiles to you and Gentry's teachings in grave error!

5]Gentry is a "False Teacher" that claims Zechariah 14 took place in 70AD, heretical in my opinion

6]Gentry is a "False Teacher" in the same realm of Hal Lindsey, John Hagee, and the likes, no different!

Teaching Zechariah chapter 14 took place in 70AD?

Out to lunch is a big understatement!
7]Gentry falsely teaches partial Preterism

8] Then look at any of davy's posts.

No biblical elder should be slandered and disrespected as is going on in this thread,

Iconoclast · Sep 9, 2021

Hidden In Him said:
Blessings.

I understood your argument. By spiritualizing, I simply meant interpreting them as referring to rulers rather than the literal sun, moon and stars.

I would respond to your questions, only as I said I am not really active right now so no time for going through things, but maybe we'll have some friendly discussions on theology down the road.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

okay, no pressure...when time permits posts between 104-140 make the case for letting the bible teach us.
My concern was if the sun moon and stars are literally falling to the earth, and the heavens roll up like a scroll as in the end of the world??? why did it not burn up the earth and rip open the heavens in isa.13, and isa.34???

Iconoclast · Sep 9, 2021

Davy,

[Anyone that studies all... of Christ's Book of Revelation realizes that it was written for ALL CHURCHES, and not just those existing in Apostle John's day.] error1

Notice what John writes;4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Davy...it does not say to all the churches for all time, but to the seven named churches in Asia.

Can all churches benefit from this as part of the scriptures, yes they can, but it was not written to them.

[The revelation of events leading all the way up to Christ's future 'literal' return back to this earth requires it being a Book of prophecy of end time events all the way to the final generation on earth!]
error2

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein:
for the time is at hand.
Again...we are given time references

error3
[But what you do, is listen to men's false leaven doctrines, even those who create a 'cult', that deny Christ's Revelation for the end of this world.]
Because you do not understand what is being taught does not make it leaven
No one is creating a cult
no one denies the second coming of Christ.
Why do you bear false witness like this?

error4
[What you show is men's FALSE seminary doctrines of Full Preterism,]

No one is presenting FULL PRETERISM...show where anyone said this!

error5
[a false belief that Bible prophecy has been completed,]
No one said this, that is why it is known as PARTIAL preterism

error6
[and that even Christ's future literal return is a myth! ]
No one said this anywhere, why lie? Can you post where anyone said this

error7
[Those ideas are NOT related to the original Bible Christian doctrines that Christ and His Apostles taught. Those ideas you push are related to the occultist's NEW WORLD ORDER beliefs, which are followers of the devil, and are helping the devil to prepare the world to receive him instead.]

This is an evil minded post, false and bearing false witness. Have you ever read the 9th commandment?

[It won't matter though, even for the short period coming when the orthodox Jews build their new temple in Jerusalem, as they already have the materials ready to do it.]
Not happening

[The devil coming as the pseudo-Messiah there to sit in that new temple and play Christ will not be accepted by all, even under their murders those you follow will do upon Christ's elect saints.]
Nope, it happened already.

Hidden In Him · Sep 9, 2021

Iconoclast said:
okay, no pressure...when time permits posts between 104-140 make the case for letting the bible teach us.
My concern was if the sun moon and stars are literally falling to the earth, and the heavens roll up like a scroll as in the end of the world??? why did it not burn up the earth and rip open the heavens in isa.13, and isa.34???

Ok, one more post, LoL. Like I said, I like a good discussion, even if I'm supposed to be leaving this place alone for now.

The answer is because both Chapters pointed to the Day of the Lord at Christ's second coming, not the immediate judgment befalling Babylon in Isaiah's time. Isaiah 34 in its entirety, and Isaiah 13:2-16. The only thing in either Chapter that was prophesied against the Babylon of his time was Isaiah 13:17-22. This is because the Lord knew that the Islamic caliphate would one day fulfill the prophecies concerning the Antichrist and Armageddon, so He used the opportunity of Babylon's current judgment to forecast a far-reaching prediction concerning the Day of the Lord, seeing as how the same geographical region will once again play a part in the battle of the last days.

To be continued hopefully, and welcome again to Christianity Board.
- Hidden

Iconoclast · Sep 10, 2021

Hidden In Him,
[Ok, one more post, LoL. Like I said, I like a good discussion, even if I'm supposed to be leaving this place alone for now.]

There is always one more post, lol

[The answer is because both Chapters pointed to the Day of the Lord at Christ's second coming, not the immediate judgment befalling Babylon in Isaiah's time.]

Earlier in the thread I mentioned I did not start out with the position I am offering now. I used to offer the same ideas you and a few others have offered because when i first read the passages in Mt 24, lk21 and revelation 6 I was being told by premill teachers that this was speaking of the final day of the lord judgment.
So far I have quoted from Ken Gentry and a few others because it was their teaching that convinced me to be biblically accurate and consistent I could no longer explain away these OT. passages .
I know you are taking a break on here as you have stated , so I am just offering you food for thought that you can consider in your own reading and study.
The flood was a literal judgment, Sodom and Gomorrah was a literal judgment, they happened literally as Jesus spoke of them.Mt24
Even here in Isa.13 they are mentioned;
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

[ Isaiah 34 in its entirety, and Isaiah 13:2-16. The only thing in either Chapter that was prophesied against the Babylon of his time was Isaiah 13:17-22. This is because the Lord knew that the Islamic caliphate would one day fulfill the prophecies concerning the Antichrist and Armageddon, so He used the opportunity of Babylon's current judgment to forecast a far-reaching prediction concerning the Day of the Lord, seeing as how the same geographical region will once again play a part in the battle of the last days.]

The text does not say anything about this is like what will happen in the future, or the NT. passages do not quote and say this is that which was spoken by Isa....

Post147;The darkening of the sun and moon is common apocalyptic language for signifying the collapse of nations,
such as in Old Testament judgments on Babylon (Isa 13:1, 10, 19),
Idumea (Isa 34:3–5),
Israel (Jer 4:14, 16, 23ff; Joel 2:10–11),
and Egypt (Eze 32:2, 7–8, 11–12)

Through these events the Jews were to “see” the Son of Man in his judgment coming in terrifying cloud-glory: clouds symbolize his divine majesty by stormy destruction (Isa 19:1; cf. Ps 18:10–14; La 2:1; Eze 30:3–5).

[To be continued hopefully, and welcome again to Christianity Board.
- HiddeN]
THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE AND GREETING

Iconoclast · Sep 10, 2021

I would be willing to state that 99% of premill people have only been taught that system, and did not even consider these verses when trying to determine what this language could refer to.

One star like our sun would melt this earth if it got close.
if the heavens literally rolled up like a scroll it would be the end of the world as we know it.

That is the exact image the language is meant to convey,life as the nations knew it was going to be radically changed. it was not life as they knew it.
Jerusalem had become an apostate nation, Mt 24 describes it's day of the lord judgment.

I am not setting out directly to convert anyone to this view. I am however showing how many have historically held this as the biblically consistent position. It fell out of favor after ww1 and ww2.
We are not to use current events and newspapers to determine our eschatology.
The gospel is spreading worldwide, and will continue to do so, as the parable of the mustard seed demonstrates.

Iconoclast · Sep 10, 2021

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Ronald Nolette · Sep 10, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
It was written to a preterist, is that you?

Not me, I am what is labelled a pre-trib, premil, dispensationalist.

Ronald Nolette · Sep 10, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Post #263 below

Gentry Is A Hack, Yes He Falsely Teaches Zechariah 14 Was Fulfilled In 70AD, His Commentary Below

ZECHARIAH 14 IN POSTMILLENNIALISM (2)
Dispensationalism, Objections, Old Testament May 11, 2021 Comments: 2

PMW 2021-038 by Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr.

In my last article I began a two-part study on Zechariah 14. Having presented the dispensational view, I will now present a postmillennial interpretation of this famous passage.

The Siege of Jerusalem

The siege of Jerusalem described in Zechariah 14:1–2 points to the AD 70 judgment upon Jerusalem. J. Dwight Pentecost admits that the disciples who hear the Olivet Discourse would naturally apply Zechariah 14 to that event. But then, he says, such requires the confusing of God’s program for the church with that for Israel. So, he and other dispen-sationalists interpret the passage literalistically, with all the topographical and redemptive historical absurdities this creates. As they do this they totally omit any reference to the destruction of the very city and temple being rebuilt in Zechariah’s day. Yet this literal temple (the second temple) is destroyed in AD 70, as all agree.

Zechariah 14:1–2 pictures the Roman imperial forces joining the various client kings who engage the Jewish War AD 67–70. This war is conducted by an empire of “nations” (v 2), consisting not only of the Romans but the lands of Syria, Asia Minor, Palestine, Gaul, Egypt, Britain, and others. Client kings, such as Antiochus, Agrippa, Sohemus, Malchus, and Alexander, provide auxiliary forces for Rome during the Jewish War (J.W. 2:18:9; 3:4:2; 5:1:6). The consequences are disastrous: much of Israel’s population is either killed or led captive. D. A. Carson observes that never was “so high a percentage of a great city so thoroughly and painfully exterminated and enslaved as during the Fall of Jerusalem.” Yet the Lord defends those who are truly his people, insuring their escape from the besieged city (vv 3–4).

Great Tribulation: Past or Future?
(Thomas Ice v. Ken Gentry)

Debate book on the nature and timing of the great tribulation. Both sides thoroughly cover the evidence they deem necessary, then interact with each other.

See more study materials at: www.KennethGentry.com

The Lord will fight for his true people “as when he fought in the day of battle” (v 4). The Lord’s feet standing on the Mount of Olives and his fighting for his people need be no more literal than other references regarding the Lord’s fighting for Israel in the Old Testament. The language is similar to that in Joshua 10:14, 42 and 23:3, where the Lord “fought for Israel.” In Joshua these references indicate his providential favor in Israel’s victory and deliverance, not his corporeal presence. Prophecy often mentions God’s feet when his and Israel’s enemies are thwarted and are given success against all odds (Ps 18:9; Isa 60:13; Nah 1:3; Hab 3:5).

The Cleaving of Olivet

The cleaving of the Mount of Olives under him employs the common imagery of God’s conquering and restraining power in Old Testament prophecy. In Micah 1:3–4 we read that “the LORD is coming out of His place; He will come down and tread on the high places of the earth. The mountains will melt under him, and the valleys will split like wax before the fire, like waters poured down a steep place.” Even dispensationalists admit this speaks of the Old Testament subjugation of Israel under heathen nations for her sin. Mentioning the direction of the cleft “indicates the direction of their flight,” i.e., the Christians who flee Jerusalem when God judges it. They ultimately flee to all points of the compass, taking the gospel with them (cf. vv 8–9).

In the latter part of verse 5 the coming judgment upon Jerusalem, which disperses the Christians over the Roman Empire, is ultimately God’s coming in angelic judgment (“holy ones” are angels). Jerusalem’s destruction by Rome is providential destruction by “his armies” (Mt 22:7). It leads to darkness and woe upon Israel (Zec 14:6–7; cf. Ac 2:20, 22; Mt 24:29). Yet, as Jerusalem collapses and Christianity separates from her Jewish constraints, the waters of life begin flowing out into all the world (v 8; cp. Mt 24:14; Ac 1:8; 9:15). The Lord’s kingdom overflows Israel’s limited borders so that the he becomes the King of all the earth (v 9; Mt 28:18–19; Eph 1:20–21).

The subsequent topographical and liturgical references figuratively portray the ethical and spiritual changes that occur under Christ’s spir-itual administration as his worship spreads through the earth (vv 10ff). Even Jerusalem and the Jews shall be nourished by the waters of life eventually (vv 10–11; cf. Eze 47:1ff; Jn 7:38–39). The enemies of God’s people will either be vanquished (vv 12–13, 14), converted (vv 16, 20–21), or reduced to insignificance

His major problem is that He reinterprets Scripture when Scripture does not fit his agenda! Just like all covenant eschatologists, where preterist to the extreme amillenialist. When the passage doesn't fit His program, He just allegorizes it away to make it fit. Sorry but with teh Word of God, close enough is not good enough.

Postmillenial Partial Preterism...What is it? A Victorious View of the Gospel.

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