Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

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Kermos

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To whom did Jesus say “you did not choose Me, but I chose you"? He said them to the 12 disciples, though not for Judas Iscariot. (John 13)

Tong
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God the Grantor And God the Concealer And God the Revealer

To His disciples, Jesus says "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest [it is] in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND" (Luke 8:10 - note the relationship to Luke 8:8).
God is the Grantor for Jesus' disciples to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God.

Greatly rejoicing in the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus says "I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from [the] wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight" (Luke 10:21).

God hides things from some people, yet God reveals things to other people. The hiding and revealing exposes the reality of God's choice (elect persons, chosen persons). God concealing and revealing is well-pleasing to God!



Lord Jesus exclusively reveals Himself to whom He chooses, and this blessed revelation is to the glory of God (Isaiah 42:8).


Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)

Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)

Related post 5: Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time

Related post 6: Lord Jesus' prayer for us believers

Related post 7: Lord Jesus indicates during the supper that more than the 12 apostles were at the supper

Related post 8: John's writings for we believers in all time

Related post 9: Christ binds Christians with communion is by Christ in Christ for Christ

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
<<<Then in question 3 you claim Adam willingly performed the evil of disobedience against God's command - a thing that Adam's "will" could not "know" because Adam did nor know evil.>>>

Nope. What I said is “Adam, willingly ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in disobedience to God’s command not to eat of it.”

Apparently you need for me to explain that for you. While Adam willingly ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he did so without knowing what disobedience is evil, for he have no knowledge of good and evil. Got it?
Disobedience to God's command by man is evil.

A person willingly disobeying God is doing evil, so you have Adam "willing" to do evil (disobedience) without knowing what evil is.

In question 2 you acknowledge that Adam did not know that it was evil to violate God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge good and evil.

Then in question 3 you claim Adam willingly performed the evil of disobedience against God's command - a thing that Adam's "will" could not "know" because Adam did nor know evil.
I had ignored every false accusation in your post and will do so from now on. It is a waste of time and of no good.

<<<Disobedience to God's command by man is evil.>>>

At least you got that right.

<<<A person willingly disobeying God is doing evil, so you have Adam "willing" to do evil (disobedience) without knowing what evil is.>>>

Adam did not know good and evil yet before his fall, even while he knows that God does not want for him to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. To conclude “, so you have Adam "willing" to do evil (disobedience) without knowing what evil is.” is simply erroneous.

<<<Then in question 3 you claim Adam willingly performed the evil of disobedience against God's command - a thing that Adam's "will" could not "know" because Adam did nor know evil.>>>

Here’s the question 3:

<<<Question 3) Did Adam, not knowing good and evil, willingly do evil in violating God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge good and evil?>>>
My answer to that was, and I quote:

“Adam, willingly ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in disobedience to God’s command not to eat of it.”

I am quite sure you will want to tell me what I meant. Go ahead. But this will be my last response to that. I will ignore it. Just saying.

Tong
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Ronald Nolette

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May God bless your recovery.



I'm not finding the cause of Adam's eating of the tree which you describe in the Word of God.

God did say "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:17-19).

GOD LITERALLY STATES THE CAUSE FOR ADAM EATING OF THE TREE.



No scripture states that Adam had the ability to refuse to eat it.



You have zero scripture that accords with your thoughts there.



As this post in this thread shows, Paul compared and contrasted Adam to Jesus, and the flesh man precedes the spiritual man for every person. By default, man opposes God (Galatians 5:17). God causes man to be born of God (John 3:3-8), and God causes man to will and to work by the Power of God (Philippians 2:13).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.


Well you once again reject had a choice to eat so you believe he was compelled and had no choice but to eat. All the rest is just fluff to distract from the fact you believe Adam had no choice but HAD to eat.
 

Kermos

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Nope. Matthias nor Joseph were chosen by Jesus as He did the twelve, except Judas Iscariot.

Tong
R0475

Now, you call the Apostle Peter a liar.

The Apostle Peter said "Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection." (Acts 1:21-22)

And the passage continues with "So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias." (Acts 1:23)

Jesus' disciples specifically identified Matthias and Joseph as two men who "accompanied us all the time" - see that it is all the time they were with Jesus as described here:

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the twelve who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17.

Matthias and Joseph were also present when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes righteously obeying God) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), so Jesus also spoke these glorious words to Matthias and Joseph.

Master Jesus used the phrase "the twelve" to distinguish the 12 apostles from the larger group of disciples present in the supper room (as this scripturally rich post shows).

Therefore, your heart deceives when you wrote "Nope. Matthias nor Joseph were chosen by Jesus" about when Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) because Matthias and Joseph were in the supper room with Jesus speaking to them.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

Tong2020

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Now, you call the Apostle Peter a liar.

The Apostle Peter said "Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection." (Acts 1:21-22)

And the passage continues with "So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias." (Acts 1:23)

Jesus' disciples specifically identified Matthias and Joseph as two men who "accompanied us all the time" - see that it is all the time they were with Jesus as described here:

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the twelve who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17.

Matthias and Joseph were also present when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes righteously obeying God) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), so Jesus also spoke these glorious words to Matthias and Joseph.

Master Jesus used the phrase "the twelve" to distinguish the 12 apostles from the larger group of disciples present in the supper room (as this scripturally rich post shows).

Therefore, your heart deceives when you wrote "Nope. Matthias nor Joseph were chosen by Jesus" about when Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) because Matthias and Joseph were in the supper room with Jesus speaking to them.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
Nothing new but a seeming endless assertion repetition of past posts.

Already addressed. I will refrain from repeating what I posted that addressed this.

Tong
R4146
 

Kermos

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Nope. You do not know my heart, God knows. And I am not who you say or think I am.

Tong
R0476

Out of your communications come the treasures of your heart (Matthew 15:18).

Therefore, God has me discern your treasures then paraphrase the treasures of your heart back to you.

In your heart @Tong2020 you claim to have facility that exceeds the apostles, and this post demonstrates the wicked treasure of your heart based on your writing.

The First Nature's Illegitimate Claim - Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

People who claim to be able to choose Jesus, despite those people being confronted by the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19), with those people persisting in their claim of being able to choose Jesus thereafter, with those people claiming the Word of God applies only to the apostles, by extension those people claim to be superior to the apostles.

Peter said to Jesus, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" And Jesus said to Peter, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 16:16-17). The Apostle Peter did not do it himself for he is flesh and blood. God did it to Peter. People who claim to be able to choose Jesus by extension claim to be superior to the apostles.

Since you claim the ability to choose Jesus thus saving yourself from the wrath of God by your own power because without your choice there is no saving, then you reveal your wicked treasure that is your wickedly defiant claim glorifying yourself in your choice of Jesus.

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)

Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)

Related post 5: Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time

Related post 6: Lord Jesus' prayer for us believers

Related post 7: Lord Jesus indicates during the supper that more than the 12 apostles were at the supper

Related post 8: John's writings for we believers in all time

Related post 9: Christ binds Christians with communion is by Christ in Christ for Christ

Related post 10: God the Grantor And God the Concealer And God the Revealer

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

grumix8

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No Kermos no -_- people have freewill and it is given by choosing and God gave us thinking and know he is our creator and to do good. But still we had the power to choose.
 

Kermos

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your words are not your words you have been execsiing words you take back and forth. You say but still people choose and it is something G-d has giving.
Freewill was given to us and to choose it was Ad ecision God gave to his people in order to show he gave us A choice fo doing god or evil.

That is a whole lot of useless "word of @grumix8", which is not life.

In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).

Now, that is yet another two posts on page 45 with the "word of grumix8", and not one scripture quotation to support freewill
(just like this post shows one more similar posts on page 43 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 35 which has a predecessor this post shows two more similar posts on page 33 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 32 which has a predecessor of this post shows four more similar posts on page 28 which has a predecessor of this post showing you did the same on page 23).

That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written “do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote “nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27) – notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

Tong2020

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That is a whole lot of useless "word of @grumix8", which is not life.

In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).

Now, that is yet another two posts on page 45 with the "word of grumix8", and not one scripture quotation to support freewill
(just like this post shows one more similar posts on page 43 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 35 which has a predecessor this post shows two more similar posts on page 33 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 32 which has a predecessor of this post shows four more similar posts on page 28 which has a predecessor of this post showing you did the same on page 23).

That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written “do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote “nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27) – notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
I denounce any and all ad hominem statements that could be found therein.

I denounce any and all false accusations that could be found therein.

I denounce any and all false teachings that could be found therein.

I denounce any and all misuse of scriptures that could be found therein.

To the readers, beware. Plenty of scriptures cited does not necessarily mean to say that such a post is biblical and sound. In such cases, we will do well to do what the Bereans did in Acts 17 ~ search the Scriptures daily to find out whether what is being said in reference to cited scriptures were so.

Tong
R4155
 

n2thelight

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Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

The Word of God indicates no based upon both scriptural text and context.

The following is carefully presented proof establishing Adam was formed with intent not endowed with free will.

  1. God issued prophecy about man eating the fruit (Genesis 2:17)
    AT the time God commanded the man, Adam, not to eat of the tree
    AND the consequence of disobedience is declared - that is that death of the man would result in eating from the tree
    YET a command does not convey ability (see also God's Commands Distinguised From Man's Ability)
    BUT the language contains a prophetic construct indicating assurance of occurrence - "for in the day that you eat" - the "for" is promissory
    NOT a conditional logic construct such as "if in the day that you eat"
    IN fact, the English word "for" is translated from the Hebrew word כִּ֗י (ki)
    AND the Hebrew word כִּ֗י™ (ki) contains the meanings of these English words "that", "for", "when" (Strong's Hebrew: 3588. כִּ֗י (ki) -- that, for, when)
    THEREFORE the word "when" fits where the word "for" resides in Genesis 2:17
    THUS the phrase "when in the day that you eat" is an accurate translation for Genesis 2:17
    SO this confirms the promissory nature, the prophecy of man eating the fruit, with the word "for"/"when" in Genesis 2:17
    AND this imposes contextual certainty indicating God's foreknowledge over the matter described in Genesis 2:17
    SO there is no free will indicated for Adam
    AND the firm fact is established
    THAT God reigns in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)
  2. Attributes/Characteristics Compared And Contrasted
    1. Examining attribute as relating to the purported facility of free will in Adam
      WITH a targeted result of logical deductive reasoning leveraging compare and contrast of attributes/facilities
      SINCE Adam was made in the image according to the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26)
      THEN some persons of the creation (creatures) argue that specific facility was given to Adam
      IN particular God willpowering purported free will into man during the creation of Adam
      THEN Adam could not have used free will to perform evil against God
      BECAUSE God will not use willpower in order to perform evil against God's self (Psalm 5:4, Psalm 92:15, Deuteronomy 32:4)
      THEREFORE it follows that Man could not use free will in order to perform evil against God
      1. The logical extension of free will on this basis results in man possessing expanded facilities beyond God's facilities
      2. God is Creator; on the other hand, man is creature
      3. Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.
      4. Scripture does not include the mention of endowing Adam with free will
      5. Man's free will is a precept of man (Matthew 15:9)
    2. Adam as part of God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world
      SINCE God saw creation was very good on the 6th Day (Genesis 1:31)
      AND God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind is good (Ephesians 1:1-14,Ephesians 2:13)
      THEN a free will Adam could not have been roaming the Garden of Eden with the ability to choose to obey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17)
      SINCE the only command carrying a punishment was the prohibition upon Adam against eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      THUS a free will Adam could have disrupted God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind
      SO God could not conclude with certainty by declaring everything was good on the sixth day with a free will Adam in control roaming the Garden of Eden
      THEREFORE it follows that Adam could not be endowed with the attribute of free will
    3. The timeline of Adam knowing good and evil
      BEFORE Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      THEN Adam and Eve knew not good and evil
      AFTER Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      THEN Adam and Eve knew good and evil
      FOR the delineation is clarified when God said "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22)
      YET based on the Word of God saying "has become" recorded in Genesis 3:22
      THEN Adam did not know good and evil before eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      SO Adam did not know good and evil when God issued the command "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die!" (Genesis 2:17)
      THEREFORE at the time of eating, Adam listened and followed the last that he heard about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      WHICH Adam heard from Eve
      FOR God said "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17)
      SO Adam listened to Eve and Adam ate from the tree prior to knowing good and evil
      AND a person does good by obeying God; on the other hand, a person does evil by disobeying God
      SO free will choosing of good or choosing of evil is not the context
      AND action is the context
      SINCE good and evil are not known to Adam prior to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
      THEREFORE it follows that Adam was not endowed with the attribute of free will
    4. The attribute of "joining" - marriage
      1. Lord Jesus says a topically very profound statement of "from the beginning of creation, [God] made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together let no man separate." (Mark 10:6-9)
      2. "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to Christ and the Bride of Christ
      3. "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to marriage between "male and female" (creatures both)
      4. "God has joined together" is a clear reference by Jesus to Adam and Eve, the man and the woman
      5. God does the joining, while, on the other hand, man and woman are only the joyful recipients
      6. The facility of "joining" is not attributed to man and/or woman
      7. The facility of "joining" is attributed to God

For expanded topic coverage, please see this integral essay Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor (not a ChristianityBoard.com link),

If anyone venture a reply to this thread, I encourage diligent care for it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

May the Lord abound mercy and understanding and strength and grace in we His own for the Day approaches rapidly!

Heck of a good question , for me anyway, as I know all do not have free will ,Paul as an example .

Got to study this ,thanks for the question
 

Brakelite

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A command does not convey ability.
That's a great god you believe in. He gives commands you can't obey, he condemns you to hell for disobeying, and calls it justice.
Then if you want to obey you can't because the god you believe in says he doesn't want you to obey, he only wants your neighbor to obey. Your neighbor wants you to be saved so shares the gospel with you that you think is great, but the neighbor on the other side says waste of time because god doesn't want you to believe because the numbers for glory have already been made up and you're not one of them. Why? Well, because god hates you of course. Why does he hate you? Because you can't obey his commands. Mmmm. Great god you serve. Not.
 

Kermos

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Salvation is of God, and by God, and by grace.

Concerning this salvation, that is, salvation unto eternal,

Jesus said “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.”

Concerning coming to Jesus, Jesus said “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

And Jesus said of those who come to Him, “He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”

And Jesus said “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”

Tong
R4077

Lord Jesus says ""he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

Therefore a person "coming" to Jesus is a deed manifested as having been wrought in God, not the work of man, but wrought in God.

Lord Jesus says ""This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)

Therefore a person "believing" in Jesus is the complete and finished package work of God in a person, not a belief controlled by man, but a work of God.

None of the verses that you cite indicate that man has the ability to choose God.

None of the verses that you cite indicates that man has a free will.

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

YOU CANNOT BE A FRIEND OF JESUS (JOHN 15:15) WHILE AT THE SAME TIME CLAIMING THAT CHRIST'S WORDS OF "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME" (JOHN 15:16) DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU. THESE ARE IN THE SAME ORATORY (JOHN 15:15-16).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Salvation is of God, and by God, and by grace.

Concerning this salvation, that is, salvation unto eternal,

Jesus said “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.”

Concerning coming to Jesus, Jesus said “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

And Jesus said of those who come to Him, “He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”

And Jesus said “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”
None of the verses that you cite indicate that man has the ability to choose God.

None of the verses that you cite indicates that man has a free will.
My point was that the salvation of God is not of man nor salvation is by man nor about his free will.

Tong
R4156
 

Kermos

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Yes. As to why is that, has something to do with Adam.

Yes, people have a will. And so did Adam.

Yes, a slave’s will is bound to the slave’s master.

Question: Was Adam created a slave or a freeman?

Tong
R4085

Scripture conveys that Adam ate not willingly of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil subjecting the whole creation to futility (Romans 8:20-22).

Therefore, the kind of "will" that Adam was created with, if any kind, is irrelevant to Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Not only that, you are asking a question that is scrupulously covered earlier in this thread.

I wrote "God is Creator; on the other hand, man is creature".

In response you wrote "I do not agree with your line of reasoning there, and so then with your conclusions".

So I illuminated your position I by writing "And in your heart you do not think that God is Creator and that man is creature".

Now you deny your own writing and that is your confusion.

As is clearly evident from your own writing, you do not think that God is Creator and that man is creature - BASED ON YOUR WRITING.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Yes. As to why is that, has something to do with Adam.

Yes, people have a will. And so did Adam.

Yes, a slave’s will is bound to the slave’s master.

Question: Was Adam created a slave or a freeman?
Scripture conveys that Adam ate not willingly of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil subjecting the whole creation to futility (Romans 8:20-22).

Therefore, the kind of "will" that Adam was created with, if any kind, is irrelevant to Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Not only that, you are asking a question that is scrupulously covered earlier in this thread.

I wrote "God is Creator; on the other hand, man is creature".

In response you wrote "I do not agree with your line of reasoning there, and so then with your conclusions".

So I illuminated your position I by writing "And in your heart you do not think that God is Creator and that man is creature".

Now you deny your own writing and that is your confusion.

As is clearly evident from your own writing, you do not think that God is Creator and that man is creature - BASED ON YOUR WRITING.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.
Too many things you say there. But the very simple question to you, and that you could answer by a simple yes or no is as follows:

Was Adam created a slave or a freeman?

Tong
R4157