Can you be pro-choice and still be a Christian?

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Stan B

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'He came to His own,
.. and His own received Him not.
.... But as many as received Him,
...... He gave to them authority to become the children of God,
........ to those who believe on His name,
who were born,
.. not of bloods,
.... nor of the will of the flesh,
...... nor of the will of man,
........ but were born of God.
And the Word became flesh,
.. and tabernacled among us.
.... And we beheld His glory,
...... the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,
........ full of grace and of truth.'

(John 1:11-14)

Hello there, @Wynona,

When the subject of abortion comes up, my mind always goes to the words of verse 13 in the reading above: which identifies those born from above, by the Spirit of God, ( ie., the children of God ) and those born of the flesh, by saying, 'who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God. ''

'not of bloods'
'nor of the will of the flesh,'
'nor of the will of man'


I find these factors interesting, and the predominant point is that a child is born by the, 'WILL,' of those whose union in the flesh produce it. In the case of rape, the will of the woman is denied expression, and the will of the perpetrator of that crime is not to produce offspring, but to satisfy his own lust. Also in the case of an act of mutual sexual gratification on behalf of two individuals, again the will of both is not to produce offspring, but to gratify a basic need.

The introduction of, 'The Will,' brings responsibility, and accountability to what is otherwise an action born of mindlessness and lust driven desire. How important it is to think through the implications of our actions before contemplating engaging in them. The sexual act should be the consummation of the love expressed between two individuals, who are committed to one another and in a position to provide for the resulting outcome. It should be an act of will that brings forth a child, and not mindless self-gratification.

I believe that this should be expressed as part of an open and thought provoking discussion between young people and their peers, to impress upon them the need to take responsibility and engage their 'will' and 'reason' when contemplating an action which has the potential to make or mar not only the lives of those partaking of it, but the life of the one who is born into the world as a result.

How this influences the discussion I don't know, but I felt the need to express it.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
@charity, a very intelligent well reasoned analysis!
 

Bob Estey

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Can you support pro-choice and abortion and still be a Christian?

I would say that its possible to be a Christian who is saved and be severely wrong on worldview issues. But I could be wrong.

There are a lot of Christians who don't have biblical values. Are all of them not saved?

If not, please explain. I realize the road is narrow but isn't salvation based on the belief in the salvation of Christ and His Lordship and not on having the correct worldview?

I believe abortion is a grave sin, one of the defining moral issues of our time. But I think its possible for someone to hold the wrong view but they simply haven't developed a biblical worldview and be ignorant of its importance.

What do you think?
The problem I see in the abortion issue is that there are three sides, not two. One believes all abortions should be outlawed, except when the mother's life is in danger because of the pregnancy, another believes all abortions should be legal, and a third believes abortions should be outlawed, except when the pregnancy is the result of a rape. I think one needs to sort that out before they begin discussing the issue.
 
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2ndRateMind

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Hi @2RM,

No. I do not believe in abortion: except in extreme medical circumstances; where there is risk to life for the Mother and child.

Thank you
Within the love of Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified,
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

Yes, I feel much the same way, but I might add the products of rape and incest to the list, if that was desired by the mother-to-be.

Best wishes, 2RM.
 

teamventure

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It cannot be murder, since a fetus is is not a living being as defined by Scripture, and you deny the truth of Scripture

How does scripture say in any way that a baby in the womb isn't living?
"And the baby leaped for joy in his mothers womb."
How can one leap for joy if they're not a living being?
 
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Stan B

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How does scripture say in any way that a baby in the womb isn't living?
"And the baby leaped for joy in his mothers womb."
How can one leap for joy if they're not a living being?
Actually, correct translation from the Greek is that the fetus leaped in her womb, and it does not say that it leaped for joy!

Fetuses start kicking a couple times an hour during the last couple months of pregnancy. It is simply a reflex action enabled to develop muscles before birth; and then they exit the womb kicking and screaming.

it would be logical to assume that the fetus was startled by Mary’s loud and boisterous greeting. Elizabeth had no idea Mary was coming to visit with her. No telephones or email in those days. It was a three or four day trip of 70 km from Mary’s home in Nazareth to the hill country where Elizabeth lived; indeed an arduous trip for a 13 year old girl through rough country!

Nothing here to suggest anything beyond normal fetal development in response to startling external stimulus.
 

teamventure

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Actually, correct translation from the Greek is that the fetus leaped in her womb, and it does not say that it leaped for joy!

Fetuses start kicking a couple times an hour during the last couple months of pregnancy. It is simply a reflex action enabled to develop muscles before birth; and then they exit the womb kicking and screaming.

it would be logical to assume that the fetus was startled by Mary’s loud and boisterous greeting. Elizabeth had no idea Mary was coming to visit with her. No telephones or email in those days. It was a three or four day trip of 70 km from Mary’s home in Nazareth to the hill country where Elizabeth lived; indeed an arduous trip for a 13 year old girl through rough country!

Nothing here to suggest anything beyond normal fetal development in response to startling external stimulus.

So where is your scriptural proof that an unborn baby isn't a living being?
 

teamventure

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It’s all laid out in msg #281.

Read from #281

Scripture you provided does not state that a fetus or baby isn't living, that is just your words.

God breathes life into a baby when the egg and sperm meet. It's during conception which only takes a moment.
 

Stan B

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Read from #281

Scripture you provided does not state that a fetus or baby isn't living, that is just your words.

God breathes life into a baby when the egg and sperm meet. It's during conception which only takes a moment.
A fetus does not become a living being until God breathes into it the breath/spirit of life; and a fetus cannot breathe in the womb; and as Job confirmed, he was only alive while the breath of life was in its nostrils.
 

teamventure

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A fetus does not become a living being until God breathes into it the breath/spirit of life; and a fetus cannot breathe in the womb; and as Job confirmed, he was only alive while the breath of life was in its nostrils.

Not stated in scripture.
You're just mixing parts of scripture with other things and making your own teaching.

I knit you together in your mothers womb.
How can you explain away one direct scripture?

You are in some deep deception. Best come to the light, who knows what else is in the dark for you.
 
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GodsBeloved11

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Can you support pro-choice and abortion and still be a Christian?

I would say that its possible to be a Christian who is saved and be severely wrong on worldview issues. But I could be wrong.

There are a lot of Christians who don't have biblical values. Are all of them not saved?

If not, please explain. I realize the road is narrow but isn't salvation based on the belief in the salvation of Christ and His Lordship and not on having the correct worldview?

I believe abortion is a grave sin, one of the defining moral issues of our time. But I think its possible for someone to hold the wrong view but they simply haven't developed a biblical worldview and be ignorant of its importance.

What do you think?

salvation is absolutely based on the belief that Jesus paid the price for all our sins and has redeemed us, you're right. I don't think we have to have perfect doctrine to be saved.

however I think God hate s murder, of another innocent human (ie.not talking about killing in self defense) and the majority of abortions are medically unneccessary. I do think there are exceptions to the rule maybe but God has final say.
 

GodsBeloved11

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Nominal Christians can and many do believe all is permitted, and/or support any worldly thing that is contrary to God's design, but they'll still only be nominal Christians. So, safe to say that some who say they are Christian are clearly not Christian: you will know them by their fruit.

God gave us life, and it cost God the Father the brutal death of HIS Son to give life to us. Life is a most precious gift, eternal life if you are born again, love God and love your neighbor.

Therefore, true Christians will love that newly formed in the womb human being who is made in the image of God and after HIS likeness, just as if that yet born baby was ourself.


Loving it means they won't want to kill it, so maybe they would consider giving birth and giving the child to someone or somewhere who could look after it and being it up.
 

GodsBeloved11

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I'm a little cynical on this topic. I looked up some figures not so long ago, (but pre-covid) and it seems there are around as many deaths around the world by hunger and hunger related causes as there are by abortion. It seems to me that Americans, who are the wealthiest nation on Earth, with over a million millionaires, don't want to talk about hunger deaths, only abortion deaths. As I search my all too human nature, I know I find it similarly all too easy to condemn those who sin in different ways than me. Ideally, there would be neither hunger deaths nor abortion deaths, but this moral equivalence in preventable deaths seems to have escaped America, and failing ethical explanations to the contrary, I am tempted to think that the difference is because those millionaires and wanna-be-millionaires find it cheap to condemn abortion, whereas it would be expensive to end hunger and it might even have an impact on their swollen bank balances.

Best wishes, 2RM.


I agree that not caring for the destitute and feeding the hungry when one has means to do so (e.g. Governments and individuals who have the wealth to contribute towards helping them) is probably as offensive to God as abortion is. . All human life is deserving of a chance to survive and thrive.
 

S.T. Ranger

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Can you support pro-choice and abortion and still be a Christian?

I would say that its possible to be a Christian who is saved and be severely wrong on worldview issues. But I could be wrong.

There are a lot of Christians who don't have biblical values. Are all of them not saved?

If not, please explain. I realize the road is narrow but isn't salvation based on the belief in the salvation of Christ and His Lordship and not on having the correct worldview?

I believe abortion is a grave sin, one of the defining moral issues of our time. But I think its possible for someone to hold the wrong view but they simply haven't developed a biblical worldview and be ignorant of its importance.

What do you think?

All of us are saved being basically ignorant and loaded down with baggage from our old lives. If one is saved while drinking, smoking, et cetera (we could name any particular sin or sins from our old lives), that doesn't mean immediately have a right Theological view or a right world view. This is usually accomplished over time in the process of Progressive Sanctification.

I will say that in our current time Doctrine and Practice has become a secondary issue for many. Don't we all search out the church that agrees with us? lol

We can be saved and ignorant, but we are commanded to learn of God, and when we do one of the most basic understandings is that murder is wrong. So in my opinion those who claim to have been saved for any length of time, if they are still supporting a godless worldview, should examine themselves, to see if they be in the faith or not. I think the church (not The Church), Modern Christendom, has suffered from a majority of false professions and been invaded by those who are not Christian...but merely religious. This is in large part due to the poor quality of leadership which is nothing new. This was the state when Christ arrived the first time, and it is without question that this will be the state prior to the Tribulation and His Second Coming.

Yes, one can be saved and be pro-choice, but...I do not believe the Lord will allow them to remain that way.


God bless.
 

Addy

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A debate as to whether or not it is right of choice to have an abortion...
This world is all about rights... and people will always choose to exercise whatever they desire.

Can a Christian believe it's a personal choice?? YEP... because it is... but as a Christian... I do not believe that this is biblical behaviour.

WE cannot expect non Christians to make the same choices we believe in... but then again... we
CHRISTIANS can't get on the same page about ANYTHING.