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Truth7t7

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The affliction of souls, a time of preparation, and an indication that the work of salvation is still yet to be concluded by our Savior, ought to occupy our thoughts.
The work of salvation has yet to be concluded by Jesus Christ?

Jesus died once unto sin, he now reigns at the right hand of the father, giving eternal life to all those who receive this finished work

When the believer is saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit it's a done deal, no further conclusion in work as you suggest
 
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Truth7t7

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And one more vital observation, all the above have direct implications regarding the second coming, the millennium, judgement and execution of the sentence, the cleansing of the sanctuary (see Leviticus 16), the binding of Satan, and his later loosing. All very interesting and absorbing topics which could see this thread taking off into innumerable directions, most of which judging by all other eschatological threads on the forum, will comprise of endless theories totally unrelated to the actual subject matter.
No such thing as a Millennium on the earth found in scripture

Jesus returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)
 

Brakelite

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The work of salvation has yet to be concluded by Jesus Christ?

Jesus died once unto sin, he now reigns at the right hand of the father, giving eternal life to all those who receive this finished work

When the believer is saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit it's a done deal, no further conclusion in work as you suggest
No such thing as a Millennium on the earth found in scripture

Jesus returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)
You are a hard case. You just jump right in there doubling down on your own theory without asking for any further information regarding what I wrote. Another infallible wannabe pope.
 

Truth7t7

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You are a hard case. You just jump right in there doubling down on your own theory without asking for any further information regarding what I wrote. Another infallible wannabe pope.
No theory, no further work on the part of Jesus as you claim, when your saved and sealed it's a done deal

A Millennium on this earth is a fairy tale of man, found no place in scripture, you can name it and claim it all ya want, not found in the good book
 

Brakelite

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No theory, no further work on the part of Jesus as you claim, when your saved and sealed it's a done deal
So, according to your theological expertise there was no need for a resurrection, for the high Priest to enter into the sanctuary with the blood of the covenant... There was no need for Christ to minister as our High Priest... There was no need for Christ to minister as Mediator of the new covenant before the throne of God the Father... There was no need for a Day of Atonement because the Passover/Calvary "sealed the deal". Is that right?
 

Truth7t7

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So, according to your theological expertise there was no need for a resurrection, for the high Priest to enter into the sanctuary with the blood of the covenant... There was no need for Christ to minister as our High Priest... There was no need for Christ to minister as Mediator of the new covenant before the throne of God the Father... There was no need for a Day of Atonement because the Passover/Calvary "sealed the deal". Is that right?
Your claim below is in error

Quote Baklit Pist #40:
The affliction of souls, a time of preparation, and an indication that the work of salvation is still yet to be concluded by our Savior, ought to occupy our thoughts.
 

Brakelite

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Your claim below is in error

Quote Baklit Pist #40:
The affliction of souls, a time of preparation, and an indication that the work of salvation is still yet to be concluded by our Savior, ought to occupy our thoughts.
So when you were baptized, did you stay under the water? The lowering of a person into water at baptism is a figure of Christ's death, and your participation in that death. You claim Christ finished His work for your salvation at Calvary, so that means the resurrection wasn't necessary. Sorry, but your salvation means nothing if you're still dead and buried.
And even after the resurrection, what Christ did for you on Calvary is still meaningless unless He sanctifies you by His Spirit, and you are prepared in character and attitude for the company of angels in glory. Justification doesn't save you. It only justified you legally. But without the resurrection and Christ's high priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary, you are still dead.
 

Enoch111

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Is it a Shofar, made of a ram's horn and blown by a human that triggers God's judgment or a trumpet blown by an angel in heaven made by God?
With regard to the "last trumpet" there does seem to be a lot of confusion, and this thread is not exempt.

1. Angels will not blow ram's horns. Chances are they will blow golden trumpets made of heavenly gold.

2. There are two separate last trumpets, but the one which is called "the last trump" is also called "the trump of God". The purpose of this trumpet being blown is to summon the saints to Heaven at the Resurrection/Rapture. This trumpet is for the CULMINATION OF SALVATION.

3. There are also seven trumpet judgments in the book of Revelation. But the seventh trumpet is NOT called "the last trump" so it ought not to be confused with "the trump of God". This trumpet heralds God's wrath, and therefore it is for the CULMINATION OF DAMNATION.

It should be obvious to all that God would never allow confusion to prevail regarding the different trumpets for different purposes. This is even prefigured in the Torah, where different trumpets were blown for different reasons.
 

Truth7t7

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2. There are two separate last trumpets, but the one which is called "the last trump" is also called "the trump of God". The purpose of this trumpet being blown is to summon the saints to Heaven at the Resurrection/Rapture. This trumpet is for the CULMINATION OF SALVATION.

3. There are also seven trumpet judgments in the book of Revelation. But the seventh trumpet is NOT called "the last trump" so it ought not to be confused with "the trump of God". This trumpet heralds God's wrath, and therefore it is for the CULMINATION OF DAMNATION.

It should be obvious to all that God would never allow confusion to prevail regarding the different trumpets for different purposes. This is even prefigured in the Torah, where different trumpets were blown for different reasons.
The Trump Of God Is The Last Day Resurrection

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

NewMusic

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I understand what you’re saying here, but it’s not actually true.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Those days of the tribulation are controlled by God. It is God that shortens the time and reign of the Antichrist. The two witnesses will be given supernatural abilities by God to allow them to stand and witness for God's people.

jb

True, but those 2 prophets do their work in the first half of the last 7 years. And the Great City is not Jerusalem.

I'll need to get involved on this thread to demonstrate, oh my. It's work, and few have ears to hear.
 

jessiblue

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True, but those 2 prophets do their work in the first half of the last 7 years. And the Great City is not Jerusalem.

I'll need to get involved on this thread to demonstrate, oh my. It's work, and few have ears to hear.

Hey there, and welcome to the forum! :)

Okay, let’s do some reasoning together. My understanding: The Antichrist will set himself up in Jerusalem.

2 Thes. 2:3-4
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In the first two verses of 2 Thes. 2, we can see that "that day" Paul is talking about is the day we gather back to Christ at the sound of the last (7th) trumpet. The point Paul is making here is that there is going to be a great "apostasy" among people take place before that happens, which is when the abominable one, Satan posing as the Messiah, shall come and deceive the majority of professing Christians into believing that he is God. It is written (Mat. 24:24, Rev. 13:13) that he shall perform great wonders and miracles in the sight of men to convince people that he is who he claims to be. [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,shewing himself that he is God.

jb
 
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NewMusic

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Hey there, and welcome to the forum! :)

Okay, let’s do some reasoning together. My understanding: The Antichrist will set himself up in Jerusalem.

2 Thes. 2:3-4
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In the first two verses of 2 Thes. 2, we can see that "that day" Paul is talking about is the day we gather back to Christ at the sound of the last (7th) trumpet. The point Paul is making here is that there is going to be a great "apostasy" among our people take place before that happens, which is when the abominable one, Satan posing as the Messiah, shall come and deceive the majority of professing Christians into believing that he is God. It is written (Mat. 24:24, Rev. 13:13) that he shall perform great wonders and miracles in the sight of men to convince people that he is who he claims to be. [4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,shewing himself that he is God.

jb

Hi Jessi.

Yes, that's all true and right.

The things I made distinction about were that the 2 prophets of Revelation 11 do their work in the first 3½ years, not the latter half. What's not typically thought of or discussed as a possibility is "what if they start at some other point within the last 7 years?" I don't hold to that view, but it is a possibility. For example, the last 7 years gets underway and then those 2 start their ministry 1 or 2 years later, which would have their 1260 days ending in the middle of the last 3½ years. It's just a thought to consider. Like I said, I don't hold that view, but I examine everything, or try to. :)

The other thing is that their ministry is not in Jerusalem. You wrote that it is. I can assure you it is not.
 
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jessiblue

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True, but those 2 prophets do their work in the first half of the last 7 years. And the Great City is not Jerusalem.

More reasonings. . .

Revelation 11:7 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [abyss] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

The two witnesses' purpose for being on the earth at this time is to be a testimony against Satan, the Antichrist (Satan is the "beast out of the bottomless pit"). When their testimony is over, the Antichrist will rise up and kill both of them. We can read this in Revelation 9:1.

Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sod'-om and E'-gypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

The two witnesses' bodies will lie in the "street,” which in the Greek text reads "plateia", or"broad place" which, more then likely, is a stadium or a large hall in Jerusalem. It is then that the entire world will celebrate, and many of the prophecies throughout the Bible will occur in the next three and one half days.

The key to understand that the location of this happening is in Jerusalem is in the term, "Where also our Lord was crucified." Jerusalem was referred to as "Sodom and Egypt" in Isaiah 1:9-10 and Ezekiel 16:46, as well as many other passages.

When these two people are slaughtered in Jerusalem by the one that the world thinks is God and the people of the whole earth start their celebration because of that murder, we should know that the time of the murder started the last 84 hours, (three and a half days) before the sounding of the seventh trump and the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 11:9 "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."

jb
 

jessiblue

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7 Years Shortened to 5 Months . . .

Let's start in Daniel chapter 9

Daniel chapter 9 verse 27 And he (little horn, Satan) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; (7 years) (first 3 1/2 years the little horn will do this at the beginning of the last seven years) (one week) and in the midst of the week (3 1/2 years) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until consummation, (last 3 1/2 years) and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So we see that there are 2 3 1/2 year segments. this is the action of “the little horn” this belongs to the time of the end, and will be accompanied by the setting up of the abomination mentioned by our Lord in Matthew 24 verse 15

Matthew 24 verse 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Matthew 24 verse 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24 verse 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Now lets go to revelation chapter 9 to see what the time was shortened to . . .

Revelation 9 verse 5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months; and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Revelation 9 is the 5th trump and the time of the locust, The period of locust is five months; May – September

So we see that the 7 years was shortened to 5 months.

(2 x 3 1/2 years shortened to 2 x 2 1/2 month segments)

Revelation 11 verse 2 But the court which is without the Temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the gentiles; and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

(months = moons, of satan)

42 months = 3 1/2 years, shortened to the last 2 1/2 month segment

Revelation 11 verse 3 And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and three score days, (3 1/2 years) clothed in sackcloth.

(1260 days, solar of God) (3 1/2 years shortened to the last 2 1/2 month segments.)

Revelation 12 verse 6 And the woman fled into the wildness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

(1260 days, 3 1/2 days shortened to 2 1/2 months)

Revelation 12 verse 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

(3 1/2 years shortened to 2 1/2 months)

Satan can't bother the woman, why because she has the seal of God in her forehead, for knowledge.

Revelation 12 verse 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

(Flood of lies, this is the last 2 1/2 month segment)

Now let's go to Revelation 13 in verse 3 we see that the deadly wound was healed and all the world wondered after the beast. (last 2 1/2 month segment)

Revelation 13 verse 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

(key word continue) (3 1/2 years, last 2 1/2 month segment) (Antichrist, false prophet)

So we see in Revelation 13 that there is a beast that rises out of the sea, Political (first 2 1/2 month segment) and then there is a second beast that rises out of the earth, Religious (last 2 1/2 month segment).

jb
 

NewMusic

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More reasonings. . .

Revelation 11:7 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [abyss] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."

The two witnesses' purpose for being on the earth at this time is to be a testimony against Satan, the Antichrist (Satan is the "beast out of the bottomless pit"). When their testimony is over, the Antichrist will rise up and kill both of them. We can read this in Revelation 9:1.

Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sod'-om and E'-gypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

The two witnesses' bodies will lie in the "street,” which in the Greek text reads "plateia", or"broad place" which, more then likely, is a stadium or a large hall in Jerusalem. It is then that the entire world will celebrate, and many of the prophecies throughout the Bible will occur in the next three and one half days.

The key to understand that the location of this happening is in Jerusalem is in the term, "Where also our Lord was crucified." Jerusalem was referred to as "Sodom and Egypt" in Isaiah 1:9-10 and Ezekiel 16:46, as well as many other passages.

When these two people are slaughtered in Jerusalem by the one that the world thinks is God and the people of the whole earth start their celebration because of that murder, we should know that the time of the murder started the last 84 hours, (three and a half days) before the sounding of the seventh trump and the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 11:9 "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."

jb

You're reasoning seems sound, but it is not.

Revelation 17:18 "And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth."

Think about that
 

jessiblue

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You're reasoning seems sound, but it is not.

Revelation 17:18 "And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth."

Think about that
. . .
This "woman" is false religion.

Revelation 17:4 "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:"

The "woman" is the one world religious order that is riding on this “beast.”

The "cup" is filled "with abominations" (idolatry, unclean practices of worship). The "Mother of Babylon" is the head of all confusion, and deception.

Revelation 17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

jb
 

NewMusic

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You're mistaken for very many reasons that are shown you in the scriptures why the harlot is not a religion or ideology. Simply look at chapter 18 at her destruction and the merchants whose trade is on the sea, weep over her burning and they cry because she does not buy their cargo any longer. And that list of commodities is long.

No, it's quite definitely a physical location.

And even if yours and all the mistaken "teachers" were correct, it makes no sense for other reasons, too. If Mystery Babylon is an evil world religion, and sits on top of Satan's 7-headed beast organization, why would the beast kill her?

Jesus said that a divided kingdom cannot stand. And yet you, and all the others, think that Satan is going to kill off the harlot who is not only evil, but blood-guilty of killing saints. ??? Utter nonsense.

And you missed completely the reason I posted that verse to you. Completely. What did I even post about to you to begin with? It all has to reconcile.

I'm not going to continue on this any longer, because I'm sensing from God that I should keep my jewels secret.
 
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