Our desire for Holiness comes in the presence of almighty God.

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marks

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With regeneration comes assurance of salvation
How exactly? I thought you taught against telling the reborn they were eternally secure.

I would say that yes regeneration does come with it's assurance of salvation. That assurance is the Holy Spirit inside us. He lets us know we are His.

Romans 8:15-16 KJV
15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Much love!
 

David H.

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Romans 6:3-7 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

These show justification and rebirth to be both accomplished by baptizing us into Christ, to share His death and resurrection.

We are justified being crucified with Jesus, His death becomes our death, satisfying the requirement of righteousness, and releasing us from the body of death. In Christ we are through His death both justified and reborn.

Some people think of rebirth as either a process that happens over time, or something that comes later after we are judged worthy. Both of these errors overlook the fact that we are already crucified, already justified, and already alive in Christ. Rebirth is spoken of throughout the New Testament as something that happens to us once, and is an accomplished fact afterward.

1 Peter 1:3-5 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

He "has" begetton us again.

We must never let the error of thinking that we are in a spiritual state of "lack". That we lack the ability, the resources, help from God to live godly lives.

By trusting in God's provision for us NOW, we can live godly lives NOW.

We aren't trying to become "more" Christian. We are trying to become more consistenly walking our Christianity. The message of "lack" attacks our faith, and by faith we stand in grace. Grace - God's kindness towards us in forgiving our sins and giving us His Spirit. Grace, given to us Jesus Christ.

The idea of a "process of rebirth" is trying to explain defeat, and we are not intended to live defeated. We fail, so we say, I just don'thave what it takes yet! I sure hope I can get that Second Benefit soon!! I'd sure like to stop this sin!

OK, I know, and very well, that our sanctification will be seen in God's time. I don't say that it will happen, I say, it will be seen. The simple truth is, According to Romans 6, translating literally, "the one who died is justified away from sin". Freed, rebirthed, new person, no longer from the line of Adam. We were in the First Man, who is corrupted in sin, and condemned. We died, and were raised in the Last Man, Who is the Lord of Heaven, and lives eternally. And we share His life.

In the teaching of the renewing of our minds, this is describing how we learn over time to stop thinking according to the way we used to be, and to learn to think according to who we have become in our rebirth.

We shouldn't confuse the renewing of the mind with our becoming "more" born again, or "more" baptized in the Spirit, or anything like that. The reason this is important is that we are to trust God, and to trust His Word.

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

When we read passages such as this above, if we don't think it's true, if we think we are waiting for some necessary part, this is a lack of faith that these words are in fact true. We walk by faith. If we aren't trusting, we won't be walking.

We can have a full and complete faith in Christ and in His Word, knowing that He has in FACT given us everything we need to live godly lives. If we will trust that this is true!

And in so trusting, then we are able to choose to do that.

Much love!

You have never experienced a revival in your own life and because of that you deny the existence of it. I Agree with most of what you say above, as your view is more of the Methodist view i spoke of above, And I do not doubt you are born again, But we must seek more of Christ Jesus, More of his working in us, more of the riches of His grace. We never stop being regenerated and renewed.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, (Hebrews 6:1)

What I am speaking of is "go[ing] on unto perfection".... Of God's love being perfected in us (1 John 2:5, 1 John 4:12).... To the point of the revealing of the sons of God (Romans 8:19).... This will not happen in its fulness till the latter rain....
 

marks

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You have never experienced a revival in your own life and because of that you deny the existence of it.

This is stepping over the fence. Let's get back to the Bible.

Much love!
 

marks

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We never stop being regenerated
I'd appreciate if you were to flesh this thought out with Scriptures. Not reasonings, but Scriptures.

1 Peter 1:3-5 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 1:12-13 KJV
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Our rebirth is not incomplete, that we are always "in process of being reborn". Instead, it is a completed act, He "has begotten us again", we "were born".

Much love!
 
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marks

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To the point of the revealing of the sons of God (Romans 8:19).... This will not happen in its fulness till the latter rain....

Colossians 3:4 KJV
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Romans 8:18-23 KJV
18) For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19) For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20) For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21) Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22) For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23) And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

This is not some "latter rain" thing. These promises are to all God's children, and not just a single generation of Christians.

When Jesus appears, we will appear with Him. In our resurrection our bodies are redeemed.

Let me ask you. Is there but one generation of Christians that will have sufficient of the Holy Spirit to live the Godly lives God intends for us?

Or did perhaps God make provision for ALL of His children to be able to life the godly life intended by our Creator?

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

It is to all His children.

Much love!
 

marks

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, And I do not doubt you are born again, But we must seek more of Christ Jesus, More of his working in us, more of the riches of His grace.
One thing you may benefit to keep in mind.

You invented your image of me.

I do not put myself on display for others unless there is a specific reason. In your desire to support your doctrine, you found it necessary to paint this very negative picture of me. You've never met me. We've never spoken in person. You have ZERO idea about my lifestyle, what my wife would say about me, my coworkers, I could go on. You have no window into my mind, my heart. All you know about me, really, is that I'm the guy on the forum who posts a lot in response to you, and these are the things I teach.

Where in the world would you come up with ideas about my devotional life, my commitment to Christ? Whether I "seek more of Christ Jesus" (He lives in you, you know!)? Whether I've experienced moves of the Holy Spirit, whether I serve in gifted ministry?

You should remember, You've invented your image of me!

It's not for you to doubt or affirm my salvation. Of course you will form your own opinions. And we should always, I think, be cautious of something that is "only my opinion". Some of these can lead us down some wrong roads. And to just freely post our negative opinions of others isn't the right thing to do, in my opinion.

Ephesians 4:29 KJV
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

This is a very high calling, one which we need to take very seriously. Every word is to serve grace to those who hear it.

I'm responsible to God, Who sits with me watching, that this is so in my words, here, now.

James 3:1-2 KJV
1) My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2) For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

This "masters", its along the lines of the Apprentice, and the Journeyman, and the Master, who is at the top of his craft, and who apprentices those who would learn.

Those who would take that role, be careful! For in many things we offend all!

Much love!
 

David H.

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I'd appreciate if you were to flesh this thought out with Scriptures. Not reasonings, but Scriptures.
It is in the definition of regeneration itself. It is an ongoing process of restoration to the original created order. Here is the link to Strong's for the word, Read "A" And "D" in the definition in particular.
G3824 - palingenesia - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

You make our rebirth sound incomplete, that we are always "in process of being reborn". Living life in the spiritual birth canal? Rather, He "has begotten us again", we "were born".

Correct, until the redemption of our bodies this is an ongoing process. Each of the church ages show this growth as well in the overcomers. I did that post on the mystery of iniquity, and how it has morphed throughout the church ages, so too has the body of Christ. We are born again of the Spirit, but the flesh is lagging behind and is why we groan for the redemption of our bodies as well. so we are in a continual "birthing process", and our regeneration is ongoing.

This is not some "latter rain" thing. These promises are to all God's children, and not just a single generation of Christians.

When Jesus appears, we will appear with Him. In our resurrection our bodies are redeemed.

Let me ask you. Is there but one generation of Christians that will have sufficient of the Holy Spirit to live the Godly lives God intends for us?

Or did perhaps God make provision for ALL of His children to be able to life the godly life intended by our Creator?

The final generation has the hindsight of having all the previous generations to help them overcome.... You are looking at the individual, I am speaking of the Body itself. Each individual has all they need to overcome and walk the journey of sainthiood in their generation, But the church itself (the overcomers) have amassed victories over their own creation that will overcome Satan himself in the end.

It is like the old adage of Kids complaining that they have more history to learn than there parents did in school, only in a good way. We have the benefit of those who walked before us. The latter rain is the culmination of generations of Christians who have walked the best they could with light they were given to reaching the perfection of the body, Not just each individual.

I Could/should make a whole post on this as this is a rather expansive topic to explain in a few sentences here.

Suffice it to say, many feel that the final redemption will occur when Christ comes and we are transformed and put on our immortal bodies... I do not doubt that , But what the latter rain is, is an event that precedes this that we put on Christ in His fulness as a Body in the Spiritual sense... That we are Spiritually perfected. (Hebrews 6:1, 1 John 3:3)
 

marks

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marks

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Correct, until the redemption of our bodies this is an ongoing process.
Rather, our bodies are redeemed in their resurrection.

The truth of our bodies is this:

2 Corinthians 4:16 KJV
16) For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Until this:

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 KJV
42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43) It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Romans 8:22-23 KJV
22) For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23) And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Much love!
 

David H.

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One thing you may benefit to keep in mind.

You invented your image of me.

I do not put myself on display for others unless there is a specific reason. In your desire to support your doctrine, you found it necessary to paint this very negative picture of me. You've never met me. We've never spoken in person. You have ZERO idea about my lifestyle, what my wife would say about me, my coworkers, I could go on. You have no window into my mind, my heart. All you know about me, really, is that I'm the guy on the forum who posts a lot in response to you, and these are the things I teach.

Where in the world would you come up with ideas about my devotional life, my commitment to Christ? Whether I "seek more of Christ Jesus" (He lives in you, you know!)? Whether I've experienced moves of the Holy Spirit, whether I serve in gifted ministry?

You should remember, You've invented your image of me!

It's not for you to doubt or affirm my salvation. Of course you will form your own opinions. And we should always, I think, be cautious of something that is "only my opinion". Some of these can lead us down some wrong roads. And to just freely post our negative opinions of others isn't the right thing to do, in my opinion.

Ephesians 4:29 KJV
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

This is a very high calling, one which we need to take very seriously. Every word is to serve grace to those who hear it.

I'm responsible to God, Who sits with me watching, that this is so in my words, here, now.

James 3:1-2 KJV
1) My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2) For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

This "masters", its along the lines of the Apprentice, and the Journeyman, and the Master, who is at the top of his craft, and who apprentices those who would learn.

Those who would take that role, be careful! For in many things we offend all!

We are told to test the Spirits, we are told to judge those who are in the body, we are told to edify those who are in the body. we are told reprove, rebuke and corrects those in the body as well. This is all part of fellowship. There are tares amongst the wheat in the body and they will lead you astray.

Paul writes: For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. (1 Corinthians 11:19) He also states: For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church[fn] whom you are to judge? God judges[fn] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.” (1 Corinthians 5:12-13, ESV)

My Point in making that comment is that I do not see you as an evil person among us, But one worth having fellowship with. I do not "look down" on you, but see you as a Brother. You read offense into my comment, and "looking down" on you, when there is none on this end. I Am merely sharing my journey so that it may or may not help you on your journey.
 

marks

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The final generation has the hindsight of having all the previous generations to help them overcome....
Hindsight?

We overcome by our faith in Christ.

But the church itself (the overcomers) have amassed victories over their own creation that will overcome Satan himself in the end.
Interesting point of view!

But what the latter rain is, is an event that precedes this that we put on Christ in His fulness as a Body in the Spiritual sense... T
My whole point here is to say . . . you don't have to wait for some "latter rain" second pentacost be baptized in the Spirit again, to have the fulness of Christ.

You again repeat this error that we are "incomplete in Him".

"And ye are complete in Him . . ."

What we wait for is for Christ to be fully formed in us. For the day to dawn, and the day star arise in our hearts. Conforming us to the image of Christ is a process that will span the remainder of our lives, or so it seems to me, as I read the Word. He who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus.

The church is the collection of it's members, and it's members are able to grow in the Lord, but be it to us according to our faith. Will you tell them God has given them all they need? Or will you tell them they live in spiritual lack? Waiting for that missing part?

And ye are complete in Him.

Much love!
 

marks

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We are told to test the Spirits, we are told to judge those who are in the body, we are told to edify those who are in the body. we are told reprove, rebuke and corrects those in the body as well. This is all part of fellowship. There are tares amongst the wheat in the body and they will lead you astray.

And what you've done is to deflect from your arguments by inventing some immature faithless personna which you've ascribed to me.

Without knowledge, without evidence, without benefit, completely empty. But it deflects from the discussion, so it does then give you a benefit.

Much love!
 
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