Will some Christians be left in the rapture

Truth7t7 said:

The saints being overcome in Revelation 13:7 is the (Two Witnesses) a parallel teaching seen in Revelation 11:7

Same Event In Parallel Teachings Below

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations

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I agree.

@Truth7t7

Revelation 11: The Two Witnesses
11 And after three days and a half, a spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet. And great fear fell on those seeing them.
12 And they heard a great voice from Heaven saying to them, Come up here. And they went up to Heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them.

1 Thessalonians 4: All the saints who are Christ's at His coming
15 For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The above verses tell us that the saints will be persecuted for 42 months by the same beast that kills the two witnesses once they have finished their testimony (Revelation 13:7 and Revelation 11:7).

Daniel 12
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was on the waters of the river, when he held up his right and his left hand to Heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half. And when they have made an end of scattering the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Revelation 10
5 And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the earth lifted his hand to the heaven,
6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created the heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there should no longer be time.
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he will begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets.

The 42 months have been completed by the time the angel says, "There should no longer be time", because the 7th trumpet is about to sound.

Hello Truth7t7,

Out of friendliness desire to share with you more on my view, you may disagree with it and that is fine. Thank you again for your time and consideration.


The only ones to me who are eternally tortured and done away with to me is Satan and His Army of Demons and the Beast and False Prophet.

If anyone who has their ‘part in the lake of fire’ to me that fire is the Eternal God which is a consuming fire according to scripture.

To me that would be as though someone came through the Gate in accept Jesus as their Lord by confessing so in the heavenly realm though they had already been judged before after death on earth. If that person had faith or not.

Am a Christian. God can not do evil. God is good. God is not a giver of bad things but of Good.

If you believe in eternal torment which is for over half of the population of the World, when they pass away and die from this world. Over half of the people died God predestined to send to Hell to be tortured forever and ever along with Satan and His demons being with them in the lake of fire that to me would be a wrong view.

Though many people believe it; but that doesn’t mean everything a person has heard, seen or been taught that way is correct. One needs to take in all the contents and context of scripture itself, praying and asking God to help you to understand.

There are those who try to make everything literal also for themselves without taking consideration of context itself, so there is also that problem to when it comes to looking, the Bible scriptures.

You are also using scripture from Revelation 14, I was reading in Ezekiel about Gog. Eze. 38-39 was an interesting lesson about Gog and what would happen.

Also it has been made know to me that The Roman Emperor Nero was the man who was known as the beast. People would worship his statue day and night, even to the point where I believe Nero claims that He is the Son of God or that He is in Fact god to the people who were deceived though they also had a choice to not follow after Nero but death would ensue, and all shall worship Him back in his day.

So could you imagine the tortuous experience many Christians when through during the Last days. People where slaughtered and killed on the streets in that time especially if they were Christians.

If there are no dispensations then that would mean there is no difference between the old and new covenant

MatthewG said:

Hello Truth7t7,

Out of friendliness desire to share with you more on my view, you may disagree with it and that is fine. Thank you again for your time and consideration.


The only ones to me who are eternally tortured and done away with to me is Satan and His Army of Demons and the Beast and False Prophet.

If anyone who has their ‘part in the lake of fire’ to me that fire is the Eternal God which is a consuming fire according to scripture.

To me that would be as though someone came through the Gate in accept Jesus as their Lord by confessing so in the heavenly realm though they had already been judged before after death on earth. If that person had faith or not.

Am a Christian. God can not do evil. God is good. God is not a giver of bad things but of Good.

If you believe in eternal torment which is for over half of the population of the World, when they pass away and die from this world. Over half of the people died God predestined to send to Hell to be tortured forever and ever along with Satan and His demons being with them in the lake of fire that to me would be a wrong view.

Though many people believe it; but that doesn’t mean everything a person has heard, seen or been taught that way is correct. One needs to take in all the contents and context of scripture itself, praying and asking God to help you to understand.

There are those who try to make everything literal also for themselves without taking consideration of context itself, so there is also that problem to when it comes to looking, the Bible scriptures.

You are also using scripture from Revelation 14, I was reading in Ezekiel about Gog. Eze. 38-39 was an interesting lesson about Gog and what would happen.

Also it has been made know to me that The Roman Emperor Nero was the man who was known as the beast. People would worship his statue day and night, even to the point where I believe Nero claims that He is the Son of God or that He is in Fact god to the people who were deceived though they also had a choice to not follow after Nero but death would ensue, and all shall worship Him back in his day.

So could you imagine the tortuous experience many Christians when through during the Last days. People where slaughtered and killed on the streets in that time especially if they were Christians.

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We are told it will go better in the end for sodom than for some others. So annihilation in the lake of fire for men who do not have eternal life in them begins to look like it isn’t the worst possible outcome, doesn’t it? Gnashing of teeth, yes, of course, but the mercy then of it being over once hell is cast to the fire. But it never says outer darkness is cast into the fire. But we do know the demons were so terrified to be cast there that they begged to be cast into the bodies of pigs rather than go there. Might outer darkness forever be worse than annihilation? And yet, how would one live forever unless they have eternal life….? Men are not born with eternal life in them, are they? It does appear that satan has eternal life, but men?

I think…some think outer darkness is the lake of fire. But they do not seem like the same place to me. But there is wailing and gnashing in both places. But does the wailing continue forever in one place and mercifully end in the other? And if sodoms fate on that day will be better than for some others…

friend of said:

If there are no dispensations then that would mean there is no difference between the old and new covenant

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Exactly!

stunnedbygrace said:

It does appear that satan has eternal life, but men?

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I think maybe it was the Targum of Jonathan, I'm not certain at this point, I read the idea that,

Isaiah 66:24 KJV
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

. . . this worm that shall not die, that was what remained of a man whom God had destroyed in hell.

Psalms 22:6 KJV
But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Much love!

GRACE ambassador said:

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

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Great post!

Much love!

Curtis said:

God divorced Israel for adultery in Jeremiah 3:8 and half the virgins wee shut out of the wedding supper in Matthew 25.

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God wed Israel, divorced Israel, and has promised to re-wed Israel.

So I ask people, Who is the bride?

Much love!

Truth7t7 said:

The catching up is post tribulation at the second coming, on the last day final judgement

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completely pre-trib.

MatthewG said:

You may even get questioned about why do you think you should come into Heaven?

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Why would that be? Who would be the one to be questioning you? And what would you be asked?

Aren't we simply passing through the veil to see the One one the other side Who we already know on this side?

I have no concerns over death because the "You" Whom I know now, I know He is waiting for me just the other side. I know Him, and He knows me.

Much love!

Truth7t7 said:

for the believers it's instantly to be in the presence if the Lord

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Are you saying here the judgment of believers happens "instantly"? Do you have a passage in mind? I've been interested in the judgment of God's children. Maybe I should start a thread. Would you come?

Much love!

stunnedbygrace said:

We are told it will go better in the end for sodom than for some others. So annihilation in the lake of fire for men who do not have eternal life in them begins to look like it isn’t the worst possible outcome, doesn’t it? Gnashing of teeth, yes, of course, but the mercy then of it being over once hell is cast to the fire. But it never says outer darkness is cast into the fire. But we do know the demons were so terrified to be cast there that they begged to be cast into the bodies of pigs rather than go there. Might outer darkness forever be worse than annihilation? And yet, how would one live forever unless they have eternal life….? Men are not born with eternal life in them, are they? It does appear that satan has eternal life, but men?

I think…some think outer darkness is the lake of fire. But they do not seem like the same place to me. But there is wailing and gnashing in both places. But does the wailing continue forever in one place and mercifully end in the other? And if sodoms fate on that day will be better than for some others…

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Hello to you, whoever may be reading.

Please consider,

Hell and images of Satan and devils, and ghost chasing was part of my life growing up. So, when it comes to the topic of what was posted in post number 82. That is something that is a real taught thing and especially if it is taught by people who may become extreme in their views on that particular view which talks about Damnation, Condemnation, Eternal (Age-Long) Punishment (though I believe those done away with are : Satan, His Demons, Death Physical(death was overcame) (Spiritual death was overcame - that is why people who believe in Jesus Christ are born back spiritually alive), so Jesus had victory over these things including Sin, and She'ol or Hades or Hell people call it. They are three related. Only Hell is sometimes actually referred to as Ghenna in some cases talking about a Mountain that was always on fire, and was pretty much a trash heap and also where bodies were burned and turned to ashes because of how hot the mountain got I believe.

Though some hold this age old tradition of hell fire pit, forever and ever most of all sinister things occur in this place where people are tortured forever and ever day and night all the time never ceasing.

Have any of you ever heard of any of these things?

Do like how you place outer darkness in there as well, because to me I much rather people who pass away here who did not make the choice to have faith, to have somewhere they can stay even if it is from the light of God.

Now if possible it would be great to also go out there to Help those who are out there in the darkness in the next life with God and Jesus Christ being with us, as our light to guide our feet to reach who many need to hear about Salvation.

That is my hope, that is something dear to my heart. Regardless if people believe it could ever be real or not that doesn't matter because to me God is good, and if He is a good God He doesn't force anyone to do anything, and people make their own choice, and are responsible each for their own individual lives which makes it more of a heavier weight to hold analyzing our own freedom with such responsibility towards God who is far more incomprehensive than anyone can truly understand. God is good, and God is love.

Thank you for your comment, with love in Christ,
Matthew G

marks said:

God wed Israel, divorced Israel, and has promised to re-wed Israel.

So I ask people, Who is the bride?

Much love!

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And God punished Israel very severely - they’ve gone through literal holocaust and severe tribulation, over many centuries- let alone a mere half of a seven year tribulation.

teamventure said:

Thank you friend. That is very encouraging

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We will never be disappointed by just trusting Him amid every turmoil.

marks said:

completely pre-trib.

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Jesus said the abomination of desolation precedes His coming.

I believe Him.

Maranatha

marks said:

Are you saying here the judgment of believers happens "instantly"? Do you have a passage in mind? I've been interested in the judgment of God's children. Maybe I should start a thread. Would you come?

Much love!

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The parable of the rich man and Lazarus Luke 16:19-31 clearly shows that immediately upon death Lazarus was comforted and the rich man was tormented in hell, yes this clearly shows a pre-judgement prior to the final judgement seen in Revelation 20:11-15 when death and hell are cast into the lake of fire

MatthewG said:

Hello Truth7t7,

Out of friendliness desire to share with you more on my view, you may disagree with it and that is fine. Thank you again for your time and consideration.


The only ones to me who are eternally tortured and done away with to me is Satan and His Army of Demons and the Beast and False Prophet.

If anyone who has their ‘part in the lake of fire’ to me that fire is the Eternal God which is a consuming fire according to scripture.

To me that would be as though someone came through the Gate in accept Jesus as their Lord by confessing so in the heavenly realm though they had already been judged before after death on earth. If that person had faith or not.

Am a Christian. God can not do evil. God is good. God is not a giver of bad things but of Good.

If you believe in eternal torment which is for over half of the population of the World, when they pass away and die from this world. Over half of the people died God predestined to send to Hell to be tortured forever and ever along with Satan and His demons being with them in the lake of fire that to me would be a wrong view.

Though many people believe it; but that doesn’t mean everything a person has heard, seen or been taught that way is correct. One needs to take in all the contents and context of scripture itself, praying and asking God to help you to understand.

There are those who try to make everything literal also for themselves without taking consideration of context itself, so there is also that problem to when it comes to looking, the Bible scriptures.

You are also using scripture from Revelation 14, I was reading in Ezekiel about Gog. Eze. 38-39 was an interesting lesson about Gog and what would happen.

Also it has been made know to me that The Roman Emperor Nero was the man who was known as the beast. People would worship his statue day and night, even to the point where I believe Nero claims that He is the Son of God or that He is in Fact god to the people who were deceived though they also had a choice to not follow after Nero but death would ensue, and all shall worship Him back in his day.

So could you imagine the tortuous experience many Christians when through during the Last days. People where slaughtered and killed on the streets in that time especially if they were Christians.

Click to expand...

You teach (Nero) was the beast of Revelation, it appears you follow Preterism

You deny future literal eternal torment of the wicked hell/lake of fire

Once again, are you 7th day Adventist or Jehovah's Witness?