Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

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stunnedbygrace

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Have you answered the question I asked?

"Did you leave him in regard to trusting him for daily life and provision, or left him in regard to holding firmly to the gospel about the forgiveness of your sin?"

Maybe I missed your answer?
Incredible! Unbelievable! :(

Before I did this comment, I waited for @Ferris Bueller to react. To be sure if there was just a misunderstanding or what. I was expecting some sort of a clarification or explanation when he said “then you are lost and there’s no hope for you. But it turns out he did not. And so, I say here in reaction “Incredible! Unbelievable!”

Tong
R4229

It’s okay. I just realized the argument was a righteousness by trust vs. holiness thing and decided it was best to drop it. God makes a place for both men.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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But it’s a strange bit of nonsense to say you only have to trust your sins are forgiven and you will live forever and everything else He said is optional as to whether you trust Him on it or not.
In regard to being born again, I agree, and I would never say such a thing. You don't get born again by trusting God for everyday issues. You get born again by trusting God for the forgiveness of your sin through Jesus Christ.
 

Ferris Bueller

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The Honorable Mr. Ferris Bueller.....He mocks those that try to learn from others .....he just can’t “ believe” that there are wise, Gifted, God -sent Teachers out there ( “gifts from God” , the Bible calls them) who can help to Rightly Divide God’s Word.....He must be unaware of the Bereans....he must think we can do what they did.....listen to many things and compare them with Scripture.....he thinks we will become brain- washed lemmings, apparently.
You know you really need to stop. My patience is wearing thin with you. I have little respect for you. You're an arrogant and overbearing loudmouth.
 

Ferris Bueller

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On line forums aren't what they used to be. All the good conversation went to other forms of social media. I won't be around here much longer. This is a joke.
 

bbyrd009

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The strongest faith of all is signified by not sinning, not by what you boast about with your mouth. The sign of strong faith is not sinning. Your doctrine says the sign of strong faith is believing that the blood allows you to purposely languish in sin.
isnt it weird, though, that Jesus had the highest praise for the Roman Centurion
On line forums aren't what they used to be. All the good conversation went to other forms of social media. I won't be around here much longer. This is a joke.
fwiw idk you much yet, but you have a ministry, and many read/agree/follow you that might never acknowledge as much, imo. Also, any reply you render is now searchable, and might come up in a search even ten years from now, or even after you are dead :)
 

Grailhunter

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Be good and do good. What is the alternative? Why fight the Bible? For those that believe in our Savior is speaking against being good and doing good actually fighting yourself? Or fighting God? Who would want us not to be good and do good? Who would teach others not to be good and do good? Whether it is in words or action the entirety of the New Testament tells us to be good and do good. Not that being good saves us, but the true believers in Christ strive to do so...that they are the light of world...to be an example to others.

What is the biblical meaning of sanctification?
1 : to set apart to a sacred purpose or to religious use : consecrate. 2 : to free from sin : purify.

To be set apart – from those around you. To follow Christ's example. God wants to save us from the stain of sin; this is known as justification. When God justifies people, He puts a “righteous” stamp on them; He takes away their “sinful” label and replaces it with a “righteous” one. He cleanses them of their sin and puts a new label on them. To justify is to change something’s label from “wrong” to “right.” This is a one-time event; once God justifies a person, the “sinful” label is thrown away forever.

God also wants to save us from the power of sin; this is sanctification. Sanctification is not a one-time event. It is something that takes place over the rest of a Christian’s life. Even though God cleanses us of our sin and takes away our “wrong” label, this does not mean that we are perfect. Sin is still present, and we still sometimes listen to it and make wrong choices. God wants us to stop listening to sin and doing what it wants us to do. God wants us to do what He tells us to do through the Bible and through His Spirit. He wants to save us from the power of sin, so that sin no longer has control over us. Sanctification is the power to say “yes” to God and “no” to sin.

2nd Timothy 2:21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.

1st Thessalonians 4: 1-8
1. As for other matters, brothers and sisters, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.3 It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, 5 not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; 6 and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. 7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 8 Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.

1st Peter 1:2 According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

2nd Peter 1:2-4 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

2nd Peter 2:20-22 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

Peter the directors cut...2nd Peter 1:3-11
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

Romans 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

1st John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

1st John 3:3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

Now I give these scriptures to those that are reading this. It is a waste to give them to the OSAS crowd because they represent the true definition of obdurate....totally resistant to the Word of God. Instead believing you can live a sinful life and still go to heaven. That sin is rewarded with heaven. That heaven will not be fit for good people and God, because it will be filled with evildoers and all manner of poor character. So read and heed, the true followers of Christ strive to be good and do good....the Bible...through and through says to be good and do good. Lies do not stand up against the Word of God.
 
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Grailhunter

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A note for the readers...
What is mostly being discussed here is the modern version of OSAS, and in a lot of ways it is tied to social morality, were anything goes and then they go to heaven. Even to the extent that you do not have to repent and ask forgiveness as they go, and no matter what they do, they go to heaven. In a lot of ways it is tied to the New Denomination I speak of. It has its roots in the 60's with the flower children, free love...love, peace, smoke pot.

This evolved and adjusted to social beliefs and norms where the sins of drugs and LGBTQ and other sexual impropriety and perversions are accepted. An attempt to redefine Christianity to social norms and morals so as to better fit in to their line of thinking and practices. This is a very new religion that has little basis on the Bible and practitioners ignore a good part of the Bible and despise it when people quote it. This group's modus operandi is to infiltrate established denominations that actually practice morals and even believe in the security of salvation. But a lot of these people that believe this, don't go to church because it is so heretical, and they know they would not be accepted.

But then there is the historical perspective. In all fairness and accuracy, the OSAS beliefs and the belief in the security of salvation goes back to the early days of the Protestant reform...1500's...and exists in several Protestant denominations. But it has a different flavor in these denominations, the theology being different. In these older denominations they believe in the security of the salvation that Christ provides but are very moral. The belief being that if you are evil or live a life of sin, that you were not saved to begin with. It is kind of a end around theology. It accomplish the same thing as be good and do good, by casting out the evildoers as unsaved persons. Still wrong but nowhere near as hurtful and dangerous. I get a kick out of seeing people getting re-baptized. And the other funny thing is I am multi-denominational, but these are the people I usually worship with, particularly the Holy Ghost churches.

The reason I bring this up is to keep things in perspective and explain I am not talking out the side of my mouth. I will not speak against this older flavor of OSAS or secure salvation. I will definitely tolerate that and stand and worship the Lord with them.
 

amadeus

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No sin originates in the new man. None.
...
What is the difference between the first man Adam who was born of God and the new man today born of God? The first man Adam failed before he ever accessed the Tree of Life.

Did not God provide the opportunity to men to do what Adam failed to do? To do it requires overcoming. The means and opportunity has been provided.

In order to access the Tree of Life what must a man do?

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

Was not the new man of us given the power to overcome as Jesus overcame so that we might partake of the Tree of Life and never die?

If we do not overcome because we continuously quench the Spirit of God in us, effectively limiting God, then we will never eat of the Tree of Life and we will suffer the second death, right?

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev 2:11

Only men born again from above may suffer the second death, because unbelievers have never lived. They do not die in this respect because in the eyes of God they have always been dead.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Only men born again from above may suffer the second death, because unbelievers have never lived. They do not die in this respect because in the eyes of God they have always been dead.

hmm…some in the second resurrection will die again. They are raised after having died a physical death and then judgement and then a second death.
 

amadeus

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I’ve also been tested with it arriving late. And it arrived with the exact amount of late fee added in, 2 weeks late.
I don't recall all of the details, but I remember the following event described by Corrie Ten Boom the Dutch lady who in WWII was placed in a Nazi concentration for harboring Jewish refugees.

After the war was over she became a world traveling minister of the gospel. She had been many places always trusting in God to supply her needs.

She had been many places but never yet to the Russia. and that would be her most expensive trip to date. So as offerings came in she deposited them into her bank account so that when the scheduled time for the trip to Russia arrived she would have all the money she needed.

Just a few days before her departure God told her very definitely to give all of her money to another ministry in the United States that needed it badly. She did so knowing that without it she would have to cancel her trip to Russia. She had been sure it was His will for her to go to Russia...

I believe it was one or two days before she was to leave a unexpected check arrived in the mail in exactly the amount required to cover her travel expenses to Russia. She made her trip.

God is still here and working His work for us and through us...He knows what we need and when!
 

Grailhunter

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2nd Timothy 2:21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.

This is one of the scriptures that support my belief in our walk with Christ as a journey and if you make being good and doing good a habit Christ will rely on you to do His work....ready for every good work. He will but those people and situations in your path to make it right. He will rely on you...because He knows what you will do....you will be a vessel for honorable use...

Make being good and doing good a habit...you will get better at it as you go along, on the journey with Christ. if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable...He will count on you....ready for every good work.

Don't pay any attention to those that tell you that you cannot be good...that you are dirty filthy rags....dung in the ditch....Consider the source that would want you to believe such things so that you would give up trying to be good and do good.

The sons and daughters that are apprentices of the Father's good work.

And also Colossians 2:6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him.

Be good and do good.
 
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