Good Friday?

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Ronald Nolette

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According to Jesus, days in the land of Israel back then were when the
sun is up and nights were when the sun is down. (John 11:9-10)

His understanding of the hours of day and night agree with Gen 1:4-5,
Gen 1:14, Gen 1:16, and Gen 1:17-18 which define the hours of day and
night that God himself set in the very beginning.

Failure to keep the nighttime and daytime hours of Matt 12:40 distinctly
separate has led people to spinning some very unworkable chronologies.


BTW: If the first of Jesus' three days began at sundown, then when did the
first of his three nights begin: at dawn?
_

I think I can unfog the confusion you have.

Most of it comes from not understanding Jewish culture and how they spoke. First off when we say in Jewish counting a day starts at sunset or when the first three stars are visible in the sky- it means like Friday or Saturday. so the day of a week starts at sundown.

Also in Jewish speak, any part of a day is counted as a day so Jesus died on Friday, was buried and rose after the sun appeared in teh sky (dawn) on sunday, so that is Friday, Saturday and Sunday in Jewish reckoning!

Hope this helps.
 

farouk

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When you need the timing for the Sabbath, the Sabbath starts at sunset and ends at sunset the next day. So Friday at sunset and ends Saturday evening at sunset. Then Sunday starts Saturday evening at sunset, so Jesus rose just after the Sabbath ended.
@1stCenturyLady Yes, we sometimes forget how the Eastern mind looks at things differently...

Edward Said wrote a book called Orientalism, which challenged people in the West about how they look at the East.
 

Webers_Home

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Jesus died on Friday, was buried and rose after the sun appeared in teh sky
(dawn) on sunday, so that is Friday, Saturday and Sunday in Jewish
reckoning!

Your chronology permits only two nights; whereas Matt 12:40 requires
three.
_
 

1stCenturyLady

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@1stCenturyLady Yes, we sometimes forget how the Eastern mind looks at things differently...

Edward Said wrote a book called Orientalism, which challenged people in the West about how they look at the East.

That is why many make a doctrine of demons out of 1 John 1:8 because they are seeing it with a western mindset when the style of the whole chapter is EASTERN. From 5-10 each verse is in contrast to the one before. That is why 10 and 8 are similar but apart by one verse that applies to both, and also verse 6.

Doctrines of demons twist scriptures and doctrines of Jesus. That is why 1 John 3:5 and 9 are not believed because they contradict their beloved justifier of sin, 1 John 1:8. I've even seen this in Pentecostal denominations that were started by the holiness Methodists. But even Methodists have been corrupted and many Methodists today are leaving their denomination.
 

Webers_Home

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Friday Saturday and sunday would be spoken as on the third day or three
days and nights in Jewish culture.

When Jesus was living in the land of Israel, days were when the sun is up,
and nights were when the sun is down. (John 11:9-10)

This complies with Gen 1:4-5, Gen 1:14, Gen 1:16, and Gen 1:17-18 where
God decreed that when it's day, it's light outside and when it's night, it's
dark outside.

Now had Jesus meant for the three days of Matt 12:40 to be 24-hour
amalgams of light and dark he wouldn't have thrown three nights in there
with them. Instead, he parsed light and dark, i.e. Jesus numbered the days
and the nights separately so that even a child could get it.

Matt 11:25 . . I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because
thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed
them unto babes.
_
 

Ronald Nolette

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When Jesus was living in the land of Israel, days were when the sun is up,
and nights were when the sun is down. (John 11:9-10)

This complies with Gen 1:4-5, Gen 1:14, Gen 1:16, and Gen 1:17-18 where
God decreed that when it's day, it's light outside and when it's night, it's
dark outside.

Now had Jesus meant for the three days of Matt 12:40 to be 24-hour
amalgams of light and dark he wouldn't have thrown three nights in there
with them. Instead, he parsed light and dark, i.e. Jesus numbered the days
and the nights separately so that even a child could get it.

Matt 11:25 . . I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because
thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed
them unto babes.
_

YOu are confusing daytime with a day.

You also are neglecting to think like a first century Jew would in this. NO matter how you slice it- whether it was said three days and nights, three days, on the thrird day- it is all saying the same and in Jewish thinking all meant part of Friday through part of Sunday! Sorry if you won't accept how the people living in that day accepted it and understood it.
 

Webers_Home

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Sorry if you won't accept how the people living in that day accepted it and
understood it.
Jesus was one of the people living in that day. So I think he is qualified to
define the days and nights of his burial and resurrection better than anyone
living today in our time.

Well according to Jesus-- whom I consider an unimpeachable witness --days
were when it was light outside and nights were when it was dark. (John 11:9-10)

Surely you can find it within yourself to sympathize with my situation. As a
Christian, it's expected of me to accept Jesus' sayings rather than someone
else's.

"If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know
the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:31-32)
_
 

Ronald Nolette

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Jesus was one of the people living in that day. So I think he is qualified to
define the days and nights of his burial and resurrection better than anyone
living today in our time.

Well according to Jesus-- whom I consider an unimpeachable witness --days
were when it was light outside and nights were when it was dark. (John 11:9-10)

Surely you can find it within yourself to sympathize with my situation. As a
Christian, it's expected of me to accept Jesus' sayings rather than someone
else's.

"If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know
the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:31-32)
_

To your gentile mindset. Now try and think like a first century Jew and learn how they used euphemisms in their speech like we do in ours! Jesus is an unimpeachable source and He spoke as a jew did in the first century and used the euphemisms Jews used in the first century. You and I get confused when we see these things cuz we are gentiles in the 21st centruy reading words on a page. If we don't learn how they used words, we think with our 21st century mind.
 

Webers_Home

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Below is another example where Jesus used the terms day and night in a
manner similar to Matt 12:40 to make sure he wasn't misunderstood.

Speaking to Peter; Jesus said:

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "today-- yes, tonight --before the
rooster crows twice; you yourself will disown me three times." (Mark 14:30)

Did Peter disown Jesus while the sun was up, or while the sun was down?

Well; according to my source, the rooster's first crowing was around
midnight and the second around daybreak. Peter concluded his three denials
before the second crowing (Mark 14:66-72) so we can safely assume that
Peter's denials took place before the sun came up. In other words; when
Jesus said "night" in Mark 14:30, he meant dark.

Compare Mark 4:27, Mark 5:5, Luke 2:37, Luke 18:7, and Acts 9:24 where
day and night are again juxtaposed to indicate when the sun is up and when
the sun is down.
_
 

Desire Of All Nations

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He was in the grave for parts of three days, simple as that, if someone doesn't want to accept that, so be it.
Here's why this position makes absolutely no sense. Daniel wrote that the Messiah would die on a Wednesday:

"Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate.” -Dan. 9:27

Furthermore, the Gospel accounts shows 2 Sabbaths were observed before the resurrected Christ appeared to His followers:

"So there they laid Jesus, because of the Jews' Preparation Day, for the tomb was nearby." - Jhn 19:42

Proponents of the idea that Christ was only dead for 3 parts of a day subscribe to that position in part because they don't realize the day preceding any Sabbath is a prep day. In this particular case, it was the prep day for the first day of Unleavened Bread, which is the day after Passover:

"‘On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the LORD’s Passover. ‘And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it. " - Lev. 23:5-6

The second Sabbath is the weekly Sabbath that is mentioned in Luke:

"Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment." - Luk. 23:56

The correct sequence of events is as follows:

Passover Afternoon - Christ died and was buried before the first day of ULB feast(Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset) begins(Dan. 9:27, Matt. 27:50, Mar. 15:37, Luk. 23:46, 54, Jhn. 19:14, 30-31, 42)

Thursday - First day of ULB feast

Friday Day Period - Christ's female followers purchased spices and prepared them before the weekly Sabbath begins(Luk. 23:56)

Saturday Afternoon -Christ's followers keep the Sabbath(Luk. 23:56); Christ is resurrected at the same exact time He died

Sunday morning hrs
-Christ's female followers go to the tomb where Christ was buried to apply the prepared spices to His corpse and are informed by angels that He was already resurrected(Matt. 28:1-6, Mar. 16:1-7, Luk. 24:1-7, Jhn 20:1-7)

As Christ prophesied, He was dead for exactly 3 days, not 3 parts of a day.
To your gentile mindset. Now try and think like a first century Jew and learn how they used euphemisms in their speech like we do in ours! Jesus is an unimpeachable source and He spoke as a jew did in the first century and used the euphemisms Jews used in the first century. You and I get confused when we see these things cuz we are gentiles in the 21st centruy reading words on a page. If we don't learn how they used words, we think with our 21st century mind.
This is such an illogical argument. The Orthodox Jews still interpret any mention of a literal day as being a full 24 hr. period now just as much as they did back in Christ's day. People are familiar with Judaism is because its adherents still believe in keeping the whole 24 hr. period of a Sabbath and not just part of it. Even the most militant atheist can read Gen. 1 and know it is referring to 6 full 24 hr. periods.
 
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Webers_Home

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Dan. 9:27

There's a very strong possibility that the "week" spoken of in that prophecy is
a period of seven years instead of seven days.

Because of that possibility, I highly recommend excluding Daniel altogether and
finding some other way to sleuth the day of the week during which Jesus was
crucified and buried.
_
 
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FHII

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Friday Day Period - Christ's female followers purchased spices and prepared them before the weekly Sabbath begins(Luk. 23:56)
Desire Of All Nations:

I am happy you posted this. I made two posts and said I would follow with a third, but didn't because no one responded to my first to... Figure there was no interest. But my third post was going to focus on this point. Luke 23:56 doesn't say the purchased the spices before the Sabbath; it says they prepared them before the Sabbath.

Mark 16:1 says the purchased them after the sabbath. How can this be? They prepared them before the Sabbath but purchased them after the Sabbath. The answer is they purchased them after the High Sabbath (after 6 PM on Thursday) and prepared them before the weekly Sabbath (before 6 PM Friday). It is the only way it can be done without them breaking the law concerning the Sabbath.

Another point would be that their were Roman guards guarding the tomb. When? While they were not Jews and not bound by the Sabbath, I don't think they would've agreed to guard it during the Sabbath. And as it turns out, they weren't there when the women arrived.

Thanks for the post. I agree.
 
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Robert Gwin

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Here's why this position makes absolutely no sense. Daniel wrote that the Messiah would die on a Wednesday:

"Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate.” -Dan. 9:27

Furthermore, the Gospel accounts shows 2 Sabbaths were observed before the resurrected Christ appeared to His followers:

"So there they laid Jesus, because of the Jews' Preparation Day, for the tomb was nearby." - Jhn 19:42

Proponents of the idea that Christ was only dead for 3 parts of a day subscribe to that position in part because they don't realize the day preceding any Sabbath is a prep day. In this particular case, it was the prep day for the first day of Unleavened Bread, which is the day after Passover:

"‘On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the LORD’s Passover. ‘And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it. " - Lev. 23:5-6

The second Sabbath is the weekly Sabbath that is mentioned in Luke:

"Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment." - Luk. 23:56

The correct sequence of events is as follows:

Passover Afternoon - Christ died and was buried before the first day of ULB feast(Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset) begins(Dan. 9:27, Matt. 27:50, Mar. 15:37, Luk. 23:46, 54, Jhn. 19:14, 30-31, 42)

Thursday - First day of ULB feast

Friday Day Period - Christ's female followers purchased spices and prepared them before the weekly Sabbath begins(Luk. 23:56)

Saturday Afternoon -Christ's followers keep the Sabbath(Luk. 23:56); Christ is resurrected at the same exact time He died

Sunday morning hrs
-Christ's female followers go to the tomb where Christ was buried to apply the prepared spices to His corpse and are informed by angels that He was already resurrected(Matt. 28:1-6, Mar. 16:1-7, Luk. 24:1-7, Jhn 20:1-7)

As Christ prophesied, He was dead for exactly 3 days, not 3 parts of a day.This is such an illogical argument. The Orthodox Jews still interpret any mention of a literal day as being a full 24 hr. period now just as much as they did back in Christ's day. People are familiar with Judaism is because its adherents still believe in keeping the whole 24 hr. period of a Sabbath and not just part of it. Even the most militant atheist can read Gen. 1 and know it is referring to 6 full 24 hr. periods.

Those weeks were weeks of years sir. The Messiah being cut off in the middle of the week would be 3 and a half years, Jesus was 30 when he was anointed, and we believe his ministry lasted 3.5 years, making him 33 and a half yrs old at his execution. We believe, and historical evidence should be able to document this, that he died in the year 33 CE, on Nisan 14, which was a Friday that year. Why do we believe that it was 33? because that particular year held a great sabbath which was indicated happened when Jesus died.
 

Webers_Home

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What is it about Good Friday that attracts so many off the wall theories? Can't
we just have three times when the sun was up and three times when the sun
was down and be done with it?
_
 

rstrats

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[QUOTE="FHII



Mark 16:1 says the purchased them after the sabbath. How can this be? They prepared them before the Sabbath but purchased them after the Sabbath. The answer is they purchased them after the High Sabbath (after 6 PM on Thursday) and prepared them before the weekly Sabbath (before 6 PM Friday). It is the only way it can be done without them breaking the law concerning the Sabbath.

[/QUOTE]

Can you know for certain that it couldn't have been possible to purchase more spices right after the weekly Sabbath ended at sunset?
 

Ronald Nolette

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[QUOTE="FHII



Mark 16:1 says the purchased them after the sabbath. How can this be? They prepared them before the Sabbath but purchased them after the Sabbath. The answer is they purchased them after the High Sabbath (after 6 PM on Thursday) and prepared them before the weekly Sabbath (before 6 PM Friday). It is the only way it can be done without them breaking the law concerning the Sabbath.

Can you know for certain that it couldn't have been possible to purchase more spices right after the weekly Sabbath ended at sunset?[/QUOTE]

Withh 100% certainty? No. But given that people did not observe Sabbath and then generally go and open shop for business- it seems highly improbable.
 

FHII

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[QUOTE="FHII



Mark 16:1 says the purchased them after the sabbath. How can this be? They prepared them before the Sabbath but purchased them after the Sabbath. The answer is they purchased them after the High Sabbath (after 6 PM on Thursday) and prepared them before the weekly Sabbath (before 6 PM Friday). It is the only way it can be done without them breaking the law concerning the Sabbath.

Can you know for certain that it couldn't have been possible to purchase more spices right after the weekly Sabbath ended at sunset?[/QUOTE]
Yes. Given the information provided there is no way to buy the spices before the sabbath and prepare them after the sabbath. Matthew says the women approached the tomb while it was still the Sabbath. Thus, they couldn't buy them because it was still the sabbath. And even if they could've bought them after the Saturday Sabbath, there was no way to prepare them before it.