OSAS Question

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Taken

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I'm sorry to hear that. I suspect you know very little about the power of the "keys to the kingdom of heaven" talked about in Matthew 16, especially 18 and 19.

Why did Jesus go all the way to the river Jordan to find John to baptize him? Because John was the only person on earth at the time that had the authority to baptize, besides Jesus. So when I say that nobody will be saved unless the keys of the kingdom of heaven are being used by the man doing the ordinances, I mean it. So study up on "the keys of the kingdom of heaven". Christ holds them and has given them to men to grow his church and save people.

The "key" is he who has Knowledge of the Scripture and preaches in the same truths as Jesus taught.
It is the Lord Himself who does the Baptizing of the Holy Spirit, whether or not a cleric is present.
 

Addy

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OHHHHHHHHHH... I get it now.... OSAS argument with a Catholic slant. No wonder I found the comments so appalling.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Read this scripture:
John 15:2
King James Version

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

It says: Every branch "IN" me, (not "with" me) that beareth not fruit he (God) taketh away ( usually "taketh away" means taken away and burnt.

Like I say: not a good outlook for people (branches) that are OSAS believers. They better be willing to beareth fruit or be taken away. A lot of OSAS people believe this strongly because they do not want to be engaged in bringing people to Jesus, it is outside their comfort box. I'm sure there are many ways to produce fruit, like being a good mother or father to your children bringing them up in righteousness in the Lord Jesus, etc.
So missionary work is not the only way to beareth fruit. Hope they find a way.
Actually if we look in the greek. The word takes away here should actually read lifts up. Or picks up. Its a term used widely in vineyards, where a branch is on the ground and drowned out. You lift it or pick it up so that it starts to bear fruit.

So it should read that he lifts up branches that have no fruit. So they can bear fruit. And the ones that produce fruit. He “prunes” (again a better term” so that it produced fruit.

Jesus is using terms everyone knows about to try to explain a spiritual truth.
 

MatthewG

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Do not believe that OSAS is true.

Because that would go against all the scriptures pertaining to people who were in the faith and walked away.

Can a great problem come in your life that can get you to start questioning God? Sure it can; can you choose to walk away or continue holding on to the Lord Jesus Christ? You most certainly can.

To tell a person that is impossible is a lie because if you are created int he image of God.

You were given a mind/will/emotion/free will choice... what is your choice?

What do you decide to do with that choice today?
 

Addy

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Do not believe that OSAS is true.

Because that would go against all the scriptures pertaining to people who were in the faith and walked away.
Then you don't have much good news to share then... God does not LOSE or ABANDON His children...
Far too much of Christianity has become a STRIVING DO GOOD and BE GOOD club...
I choose to BELIEVE in the GOODNESS... and FAITHFULNESS of ALMIGHTY GOD.
 
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Gregory

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Myself, it's one of the silliest things I've ever heard...really? Lol
Then why did Jesus give Peter the "keys to the kingdom of heaven", or do you know of such things?

Do you understand that whatever Peter and the apostles loosed, heaven loosed. Whatever Peter and the apostles bound, heaven bound. What does that mean to you? Let me tell what it means to me. If Peter forgave a man of his sins (loosed him of his sins) heaven said OK, since Peter was the man that did it, we recognize him as authorized to do such things on earth, and heaven would then forgive that man of his sins.

That is the binding and loosing powers of the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" talked about in Matthew 16:18-19. Most of this goes right over most Christians.
 

Gregory

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Then you don't have much good news to share then... God does not LOSE or ABANDON His children...
Far too much of Christianity has become a STRIVING DO GOOD and BE GOOD club...
I choose to BELIEVE in the GOODNESS... and FAITHFULNESS of ALMIGHTY GOD.
You talk like striving to do good is an evil design against Jesus. Do you really not strive to do good? I'll bet you do, and if not, I bet you are not a real Christian because if you follow after Christ you are always striving to do good, just read a little scripture and you will see.
 

Gregory

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Then you don't have much good news to share then... God does not LOSE or ABANDON His children...
Far too much of Christianity has become a STRIVING DO GOOD and BE GOOD club...
I choose to BELIEVE in the GOODNESS... and FAITHFULNESS of ALMIGHTY GOD.
God will not abandon his children, but his children have the agency to abandon him, and they do regardless if they said once in their life that they believe in Jesus.
 

Truman

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Then why did Jesus give Peter the "keys to the kingdom of heaven", or do you know of such things?

Do you understand that whatever Peter and the apostles loosed, heaven loosed. Whatever Peter and the apostles bound, heaven bound. What does that mean to you? Let me tell what it means to me. If Peter forgave a man of his sins (loosed him of his sins) heaven said OK, since Peter was the man that did it, we recognize him as authorized to do such things on earth, and heaven would then forgive that man of his sins.

That is the binding and loosing powers of the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" talked about in Matthew 16:18-19. Most of this goes right over most Christians.
I am on the road to my home in the New Jerusalem. - One day in 1973, someone read John 3:16 to me. I saw somewhere else. I saw a hand, holding a sword, thrust through a curtain and plunge the sword deep into my belly. I believed it. The guy led me in a sinner's prayer.
It was years before I went to church again. I have never stopped believing, even when I tried to. I lived anything but a saint's life. In '94, I inadvertently walked into what some call a revival and in the Spirit, met my heavenly Father and was shown His great love for me.
In '04, I had a bad reaction to a medication and for a short while, died. I went and saw Jesus in the New Jerusalem.
Peter, he was some dolt fisherman, much like me! I'm impressed with who he knew! Jesus saves!
As I said, "I am on the road...to my home...in the New Jerusalem."
 

Eternally Grateful

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Do not believe that OSAS is true.

Because that would go against all the scriptures pertaining to people who were in the faith and walked away.

Can a great problem come in your life that can get you to start questioning God? Sure it can; can you choose to walk away or continue holding on to the Lord Jesus Christ? You most certainly can.

To tell a person that is impossible is a lie because if you are created int he image of God.

You were given a mind/will/emotion/free will choice... what is your choice?

What do you decide to do with that choice today?
So we should believe in conditional life not eternal life?

The scripture says those who were of us and walked away and now are against christ. We’re never of us.

That odes not negate OSAS. It supports the fact that those truly of God may lose faith and walk away as prodigal children. But they will never stop believing.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Then why did Jesus give Peter the "keys to the kingdom of heaven", or do you know of such things?

Do you understand that whatever Peter and the apostles loosed, heaven loosed. Whatever Peter and the apostles bound, heaven bound. What does that mean to you? Let me tell what it means to me. If Peter forgave a man of his sins (loosed him of his sins) heaven said OK, since Peter was the man that did it, we recognize him as authorized to do such things on earth, and heaven would then forgive that man of his sins.

That is the binding and loosing powers of the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" talked about in Matthew 16:18-19. Most of this goes right over most Christians.
They Keys were the gospel

They could give that gospel to whoever they wanted. God also told them if they go and are not recieved, to wipe the dust off their feet. In essence binding the truth from these people.
 

Eternally Grateful

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You talk like striving to do good is an evil design against Jesus. Do you really not strive to do good? I'll bet you do, and if not, I bet you are not a real Christian because if you follow after Christ you are always striving to do good, just read a little scripture and you will see.
No
Just striving to do good in order to try to earn your salvation.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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God will not abandon his children, but his children have the agency to abandon him, and they do regardless if they said once in their life that they believe in Jesus.
As God told the prophet. Where can you go that I am not there?

We can’t walk away from God. God is everywhere.

He also said he would never lose nor forsake anyone.. No matter what
 

Gregory

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:rolleyes:
No the Saved are NOT "taken away"...
Of course the Saved are NOT "taken away". It is those that think they are Saved that do not bring fruit for the Kingdom of God that are taken away, per the scripture, not me.

BTW, a man IN Christ IS WITH Chirst!
Who says that a man IN Christ IS WITH Christ? Are you making something up here to get around the scripture? IN and WITH are 2 different words that express different conditions, IOW they are not synonyms of each other. So it would be difficult for a man to be both IN and WITH Christ. Similar but not the same. Again, I think you try to use words to twist the scripture to get away from OSAS people being taken away if they do not produce fruit.

What NONSENSE. I know of noone who IS OSAS, who (believes THEY will be taken away...and burned!!!)
Of course not. OSAS people believe they can do anything, good or bad and they will still be saved. They are just wrong.

IF you are SAVED (your comment IS a fruit ... and I highly doubt YOUR Fruit, of Speaking Lies about OSAS men, GLORIFES God, and that that fruit SHALL BE BURNED! )...
If I speak lies it should not matter, according to you. I have confessed Jesus is my savior, I am in his hands, and he will not abandon me, right?
If I speak the truth though, OSAS people better learn how to repent and stay on the right path.

Why not Speak about How many times the Lord had to SAVE YOU, over and over and over again...
According to you a OSAS person can do anything they wish and still be saved. If this is the way the Lord works, then I as well as you were saved once and that is all that is needed. Everyone sins in one way or another, but according to you, the Lord does not see it after they are saved and takes them into his kingdom anyway. No problems here.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Of course the Saved are NOT "taken away". It is those that think they are Saved that do not bring fruit for the Kingdom of God that are taken away, per the scripture, not me.


Who says that a man IN Christ IS WITH Christ? Are you making something up here to get around the scripture? IN and WITH are 2 different words that express different conditions, IOW they are not synonyms of each other. So it would be difficult for a man to be both IN and WITH Christ. Similar but not the same. Again, I think you try to use words to twist the scripture to get away from OSAS people being taken away if they do not produce fruit.


Of course not. OSAS people believe they can do anything, good or bad and they will still be saved. They are just wrong.


If I speak lies it should not matter, according to you. I have confessed Jesus is my savior, I am in his hands, and he will not abandon me, right?
If I speak the truth though, OSAS people better learn how to repent and stay on the right path.


According to you a OSAS person can do anything they wish and still be saved. If this is the way the Lord works, then I as well as you were saved once and that is all that is needed. Everyone sins in one way or another, but according to you, the Lord does not see it after they are saved and takes them into his kingdom anyway. No problems here.
Whats worse is nosas thinks they are righteous enough to be saved. They have failed to repent at all.

OSAS does not think they can do anything, in reality, They know they already failed and there is nothign they can do.
 

Gregory

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No
Just striving to do good in order to try to earn your salvation.
Who said anything about earning your salvation. Was Jesus trying to earn his salvation as he strived to do good every day? Why do you douse water on striving to do good, by tying earning your salvation to it? It is code words for not having to strive to do good. You too, I bet are striving to do good as the scripture tell us we should be about our Father's business. His business is to save people into his kingdom. Your good works glorifies your Father with is in heaven, right? So you are going to impugn the idea of good works? I would not, per the scriptures.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Who said anything about earning your salvation. Was Jesus trying to earn his salvation as he strived to do good every day? Why do you douse water on striving to do good, by tying earning your salvation to it? It is code words for not having to strive to do good. You too, I bet are striving to do good as the scripture tell us we should be about our Father's business. His business is to save people into his kingdom. Your good works glorifies your Father with is in heaven, right? So you are going to impugn the idea of good works? I would not, per the scriptures.

I just stated a fact my friend

No one is complaining bout doing good.

They are complaining about those saying we must do good or we will not be saved. Ie, earning your salvation
 

Gregory

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Whats worse is nosas thinks they are righteous enough to be saved. They have failed to repent at all.

OSAS does not think they can do anything, in reality, They know they already failed and there is nothign they can do.
Believe me, this is not the attitude that our God wants his children to have. It seems feeble and weak.

We should be born again, enlightened, dynamic Christians that are about our Fathers business of bringing souls into the Kingdom of heaven.
For as the scripture says:
Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

This is the type or model Christian, not a down in the mouth, can do nothing kind of Christian. Wake up and do something good, it will make you feel good.