A Hypothetical Situation for Jehovah Witnesses

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Ronald David Bruno

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"A Heavenly Scenario"

What if you die, and the angels gather you to heaven, welcome you, and you begin see others you have known who have passed away; you feel peace and joy like never before and all is well? Jesus comes and greets you and you _ like never before _ are compelled to bow your knee and worship Him. You feel a sense of awe in His presence, His glory and love permeates your whole being. He lifts you up and gives you a hug and welcomes you. He asks if you had any special unresolved questions, stuff you've been curious about all your life and so you go down the list. You are shocked with His answers, because some of the doctrines you thought you believed were not true. You did believe in Jesus, that He died for your sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures - so that alone saved you. But so many other things were off. He comforts you, says it's okay. Jesus shows you millions and millions of souls up there, probably billions - you can't count them. He doesn't have to say anything, because that reality disproves the misinterpretation that there was only room for 144k. You realize, wow, they taught me wrong about that one too. What else? He reviews your life and your works. In your mind, you feel you have been a good servant, spreading the gospel door to door, hundreds and thousands of Watchtower tracts handed out - and so you are confident, it was all fruitful. Although after 40 years of your efforts, you have never evangelized any one to your congregation, you have never seen evidence of the fruit. They justifjed your works and told you that, "Narrow is the gate and few find it". Maybe you just thought they ended up in some other Kingdom Hall - that must be it? It wasn't really necessary to know. What if there were many, you might just get puffed up with pride? You fervently planted seeds all that time and hoped God would grow them, but never saw the fruit. You ask, "So Lord, how many people got saved through my contribution? I realize that God does the converting, but I would like to know and hear, "Well done, good and faithful servant?" He tells you, "Those who read my Word were led elsewhere on a path to righteousness that I have prepared. So whenever you spread my Word, it penetrated the individual, lied dormant and later was brought to their remembrance, so in essence all things worked together for good for those who love Me and were called to My purpose. Your heart was willing, but your doctrines were not. Don't worry, the WORD is powerful and the work of the Holy Spirit does not go out void. The seeds you planted just grew in a Spirit filled Church."
As you discuss your life with Him, you realize that you did not live life in the full as you could have. That your organization controlled your way of life, your thinking and restricted and separated you from the entire Body of Christ, brothers and sisters that you could have developed relationships with. You feel guilty for listening to many years of false accusations, criticisms and bearing false witness against the entire Body of Christ - and reveled in it. As they pointed their holy fingers, you felt a sense of pride and justification that your Organization was better than any - even as far as thinking that all of Christianity outside of your walls was of the Devil. How shocking a revelation to discover the opposite! You also found that the Lord does not frown on feasts, celebrations for any reason as long as you honored and thanked God for all your blessings and of course as long as it was good, loving and peaceful.
You feel like you were lied to. You were, but not enough to keep you from salvation.
But that is all in the past now, you are in Heaven, Jesus wipes away your tears of guilt and all is good.
So now this is it, you have a final request of the Lord. You ask Him, "Can I see Jehovah?" He looks at you and says, "There is no one in Heaven that goes by that name! It was made up by man, constructed by adding vowels to the tetragrammaton. Some came up with Yaweh. That is not correct either. Many have used these names in reference to Me ... I have been called many names. I prefer Lord, God, Savior, Jesus, Joshua.
My Father is the one whom you have an inaccurate reference to. He is to be addressed as Father as I do. I was the one who spoke to Moses and to all the prophets. I AM THE CREATOR. And so when I said to Moses, "Tell them 'I am' sent you", that was an introduction to who I am that was further defined in My New Covenant ... "I am the way, the truth and the life; I am the Good Shepherd; I am the Doorway, I am the Light, I am the Bread of Life, I am the Resurrection ... understand?
 
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Curtis

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"A Heavenly Scenario"

What if you die, and the angels gather you to heaven, welcome you, and you begin see others you have known who have passed away; you feel peace and joy like never before and all is well? Jesus comes and greets you and you _ like never before _ are compelled to bow your knee and worship Him. You feel a sense of awe in His presence, His glory and love permeates your whole being. He lifts you up and gives you a hug and welcomes you. He asks if you had any special unresolved questions, stuff you've been curious about all your life and so you go down the list. You are shocked with His answers, because some of the doctrines you thought you believed were not true. You did believe in Jesus, that He died for your sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures - so that alone saved you. But so many other things were off. He comforts you, says it's okay. Jesus shows you millions and millions of souls up there, probably billions - you can't count them. He doesn't have to say anything, because that reality disproves the misinterpretation that there was only room for 144k. You realize, wow, they taught me wrong about that one too. What else? He reviews your life and your works. In your mind, you feel you have been a good servant, spreading the gospel door to door, hundreds and thousands of Watchtower tracts handed out - and so you are confident, it was all fruitful. Although after 40 years of your efforts, you have never evangelized any one to your congregation, you have never seen evidence of the fruit. They justifjed your works and told you that, "Narrow is the gate and few find it". Maybe you just thought they ended up in some other Kingdom Hall - that must be it? It wasn't really necessary to know. What if there were many, you might just get puffed up with pride? You fervently planted seeds all that time and hoped God would grow them, but never saw the fruit. You ask, "So Lord, how many people got saved through my contribution? I realize that God does the converting, but I would like to know and hear, "Well done, good and faithful servant?" He tells you, "Those who read my Word were led elsewhere on a path to righteousness that I have prepared. So whenever you spread my Word, it penetrated the individual, lied dormant and later was brought to their remembrance, so in essence all things worked together for good for those who love Me and were called to My purpose. Your heart was willing, but your doctrines were not. Don't worry, the WORD is powerful and the work of the Holy Spirit does not go out void. The seeds you planted just grew in a Spirit filled Church."
As you discuss your life with Him, you realize that you did not live life in the full as you could have. That your organization controlled your way of life, your thinking and restricted and separated you from the entire Body of Christ, brothers and sisters that you could have developed relationships with. You feel guilty for listening to many years of false accusations, criticisms and bearing false witness against the entire Body of Christ - and reveled in it. As they pointed their holy fingers, you felt a sense of pride and justification that your Organization was better than any - even as far as thinking that all of Christianity outside of your walls was of the Devil. How shocking a revelation to discover the opposite! You also found that the Lord does not frown on feasts, celebrations for any reason as long as you honored and thanked God for all your blessings and of course as long as it was good, loving and peaceful.
You feel like you were lied to. You were, but not enough to keep you from salvation.
But that is all in the past now, you are in Heaven, Jesus wipes away your tears of guilt and all is good.
So now this is it, you have a final request of the Lord. You ask Him, "Can I see Jehovah?" He looks at you and says, "There is no one in Heaven that goes by that name! It was made up by man, constructed by adding vowels to the tetragrammaton. Some came up with Yaweh. That is not correct either. Many have used these names in reference to Me ... I have been called many names. I prefer Lord, God, Savior, Jesus, Joshua.
My Father is the one whom you have an inaccurate reference to. He is to be addressed as Father as I do. I was the one who spoke to Moses and to all the prophets. I AM THE CREATOR. And so when I said to Moses, "Tell them 'I am' sent you", that was an introduction to who I am that was further defined in My New Covenant ... "I am the way, the truth and the life; I am the Good Shepherd; I am the Doorway, I am the Light, I am the Bread of Life, I am the Resurrection ... understand?

So where does the claim come from that Yahweh is the wrong version of YHWH?
 

Aunty Jane

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"A Heavenly Scenario"

What if you die, and the angels gather you to heaven, welcome you, and you begin see others you have known who have passed away; you feel peace and joy like never before and all is well? Jesus comes and greets you and you _ like never before _ are compelled to bow your knee and worship Him. You feel a sense of awe in His presence, His glory and love permeates your whole being. He lifts you up and gives you a hug and welcomes you. He asks if you had any special unresolved questions, stuff you've been curious about all your life and so you go down the list. You are shocked with His answers, because some of the doctrines you thought you believed were not true. You did believe in Jesus, that He died for your sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures - so that alone saved you. But so many other things were off. He comforts you, says it's okay. Jesus shows you millions and millions of souls up there, probably billions - you can't count them. He doesn't have to say anything, because that reality disproves the misinterpretation that there was only room for 144k. You realize, wow, they taught me wrong about that one too. What else? He reviews your life and your works. In your mind, you feel you have been a good servant, spreading the gospel door to door, hundreds and thousands of Watchtower tracts handed out - and so you are confident, it was all fruitful. Although after 40 years of your efforts, you have never evangelized any one to your congregation, you have never seen evidence of the fruit. They justifjed your works and told you that, "Narrow is the gate and few find it". Maybe you just thought they ended up in some other Kingdom Hall - that must be it? It wasn't really necessary to know. What if there were many, you might just get puffed up with pride? You fervently planted seeds all that time and hoped God would grow them, but never saw the fruit. You ask, "So Lord, how many people got saved through my contribution? I realize that God does the converting, but I would like to know and hear, "Well done, good and faithful servant?" He tells you, "Those who read my Word were led elsewhere on a path to righteousness that I have prepared. So whenever you spread my Word, it penetrated the individual, lied dormant and later was brought to their remembrance, so in essence all things worked together for good for those who love Me and were called to My purpose. Your heart was willing, but your doctrines were not. Don't worry, the WORD is powerful and the work of the Holy Spirit does not go out void. The seeds you planted just grew in a Spirit filled Church."
As you discuss your life with Him, you realize that you did not live life in the full as you could have. That your organization controlled your way of life, your thinking and restricted and separated you from the entire Body of Christ, brothers and sisters that you could have developed relationships with. You feel guilty for listening to many years of false accusations, criticisms and bearing false witness against the entire Body of Christ - and reveled in it. As they pointed their holy fingers, you felt a sense of pride and justification that your Organization was better than any - even as far as thinking that all of Christianity outside of your walls was of the Devil. How shocking a revelation to discover the opposite! You also found that the Lord does not frown on feasts, celebrations for any reason as long as you honored and thanked God for all your blessings and of course as long as it was good, loving and peaceful.
You feel like you were lied to. You were, but not enough to keep you from salvation.
But that is all in the past now, you are in Heaven, Jesus wipes away your tears of guilt and all is good.
So now this is it, you have a final request of the Lord. You ask Him, "Can I see Jehovah?" He looks at you and says, "There is no one in Heaven that goes by that name! It was made up by man, constructed by adding vowels to the tetragrammaton. Some came up with Yaweh. That is not correct either. Many have used these names in reference to Me ... I have been called many names. I prefer Lord, God, Savior, Jesus, Joshua.
My Father is the one whom you have an inaccurate reference to. He is to be addressed as Father as I do. I was the one who spoke to Moses and to all the prophets. I AM THE CREATOR. And so when I said to Moses, "Tell them 'I am' sent you", that was an introduction to who I am that was further defined in My New Covenant ... "I am the way, the truth and the life; I am the Good Shepherd; I am the Doorway, I am the Light, I am the Bread of Life, I am the Resurrection ... understand?
Wow...if ever you decide to write biblical fiction, you certainly have the imagination for it....
happy0195.gif

Where do you get this stuff....?
 

Enoch111

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You did believe in Jesus, that He died for your sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures - so that alone saved you.
However, if someone does not believe that it was God as Man who died on the cross for their sins, then that does not save anyone. Since the JWs do not believe that Jesus is God, your hypothetical scenario has too many holes in it.

The name "Jesus" in Hebrew is YAHSHUA (modified to Yeshua). That name means GOD IS OUR SALVATION and applies specifically to Jesus of Nazareth. Both Mary and Joseph were commanded to give this name to the child born in Bethlehem, "whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting". So anyone who denies that Jesus is God does not enter Heaven.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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I hold a special place in my heart for JW's, family members whom I love. Writing has been a passion of mine. Wrote a book once - it did'nt do well. That's okay, I loved doing it since I was unemployed at the time.
All in all, I think God is more merciful than we pretend to be. Judge not lest you be judged.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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However, if someone does not believe that it was God as Man who died on the cross for their sins, then that does not save anyone. Since the JWs do not believe that Jesus is God, your hypothetical scenario has too many holes in it.

The name "Jesus" in Hebrew is YAHSHUA (modified to Yeshua). That name means GOD IS OUR SALVATION and applies specifically to Jesus of Nazareth. Both Mary and Joseph were commanded to give this name to the child born in Bethlehem, "whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting". So anyone who denies that Jesus is God does not enter Heaven.
So I guess when Judgment Day comes, the JW's will thank God that you won't being sitting in the jury section, holding up a sign, "let them burn"!
 

Reggie Belafonte

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So I guess when Judgment Day comes, the JW's will thank God that you won't being sitting in the jury section, holding up a sign, "let them burn"!
I don't think that Enoch111 or anyone will be doing any such, it's the will of God that matters, one abides or you don't. it's not up to us at all, God will do that. we are condemning anyone in that regard, No ! God holds them cards. or do we make up our own rules like the JW do and start claiming who the gods are they support ?
Number one the human god ! as to what they claim that god would not do X,Y and Z because the JW claiming is worldly and delusional. fact is the Bible says that you reap what you sow, Sodom found that out !

So if you go up against God, you will always fail in fact, just as the Jews failed every time they turned their backs to God in fact. in the end they were vomited out of the Land. but some clown will claim god would never do that etc etc well no you are with God or you are against God and they who do not respect God will fail every time, not to mention induce living hell on earth because they are deluded fools or wolfs. it's the god of their own ego that they only seek.
They would not know Jesus Christ if they fell over him, just as all of them Jews who did not know him, because they were not worthy of him.
 

Truman

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If J.W.s want to believe that Jesus is an angel, then, by all means, knock yourselves out!
I know better, but I also know better than to bang my head against the wall!
 
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Curtis

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Fortunately for those who deny the divinity of Jesus, the required salvation criteria is belief Jesus is the Son of God, and no scripture demands the belief that Jesus is God to be saved.

And the word LORD in Romans 10 is kurios, not theos.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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I don't think that Enoch111 or anyone will be doing any such, it's the will of God that matters, one abides or you don't. it's not up to us at all, God will do that. we are condemning anyone in that regard, No ! God holds them cards. or do we make up our own rules like the JW do and start claiming who the gods are they support ?
Number one the human god ! as to what they claim that god would not do X,Y and Z because the JW claiming is worldly and delusional. fact is the Bible says that you reap what you sow, Sodom found that out !

So if you go up against God, you will always fail in fact, just as the Jews failed every time they turned their backs to God in fact. in the end they were vomited out of the Land. but some clown will claim god would never do that etc etc well no you are with God or you are against God and they who do not respect God will fail every time, not to mention induce living hell on earth because they are deluded fools or wolfs. it's the god of their own ego that they only seek.
They would not know Jesus Christ if they fell over him, just as all of them Jews who did not know him, because they were not worthy of him.
I was using figurative language to describe the apathy, lack of mercy and judgmental condition of his heart. Of course God alone is the ultimate Judge.
But it sounds like you are holding up one of those signs too?
 

Ronald David Bruno

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So where does the claim come from that Yahweh is the wrong version of YHWH?
Oops, missed that question. I believe Jesus has many names. I think YHWH is more of a causative description of Who He is more than a name. In Ex. 3:14,,God spoke to Moses and said tell the I AM sent you. It was an introduction to all the I am's in the book of John. It was replaced with LORD 5400 times because they not sure of how to pronounce it. I call Him Jesus and our Father, Father. Isn't YHWH typically followed by the word God. The YHWH God.,it is descriptive. The Creator God, the Way, The Truth, The Life, the Breadnif Life,,the Doorway, The Good Shepherd, The Ressurection, the Alpha and Omega, the LIGHT of men, etc. The easence of God is in YHWH, it is not just like any other name.

"
(This word could be the origin of a form of a Hebrew verb that means “He is”. This is how Exodus 3:14 is interpreted, when Yahweh calls Himself by the name “I Am”, which is clearly intended as an interpretation of the meaning of the name. I have called my book about the history of ideas in the Old Testament “God is a verb” (Gud är ett verb), which expresses both of the aspects we have seen here: that the God of the Old Testament is presented as a God of action who works in history, and that His name could even be a verb – meaning “He is”).
Text: Ola Wikander and Bodil Malmström
 

Ronald David Bruno

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I have nothing to do with this other than tell you and anyone else that it is God who makes the rules.
Well it sounds like you have a say in the rules.
QUOTE="Enoch111, post: 1122288, member: 7853"]So anyone who denies that Jesus is God does not enter Heaven.[/QUOTE]
I believe that Jesus is God however, "the gospel" is to believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose on the third day. It is the good news, that we are forgiven, that he paid the penalty. He did say that He did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped by man ....and people still don't. Therefore I don't think He demands that prerequisite.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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Well it sounds like you have a say in the rules.
QUOTE="Enoch111, post: 1122288, member: 7853"]So anyone who denies that Jesus is God does not enter Heaven.
I believe that Jesus is God however, "the gospel" is to believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose on the third day. It is the good news, that we are forgiven, that he paid the penalty. He did say that He did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped by man ....and people still don't. Therefore I don't think He demands that prerequisite.[/QUOTE]
No it you who are making the rules in fact, we just obey.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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They would not know Jesus Christ if they fell over him, just as all of them Jews who did not know him, because they were not worthy of him.
The Jews were blinded for our sake. God will open their eyes soon too. (Rom. 11 confirms this).
As far as the rules, Jesus said believe in Him and you will be saved. Actually, those who call out His name will be saved. That in itself is a demonstration of some faith. Another passage says, "you and your houshold will be saved".
Acts 16:31
So what does that mean, if an unbeliever or even a non-trinitarian lives in your house ( a son, daughter, wife), they will be saved too?
That passage always perplexed me.
A person's faith in a houshold can have such an effect on everyone. The words of God are often spoken and shared. Their family experiences a changed life, joy and love that spills over onto all in the household. It's odd, because we often have unbelievers or loved ones of different faiths in our own household. There is often friction, arguments, we are unequally yoked and they apparently resist and remain in disbelief. So what's going on inside that we don't know about? Did those scriptures we shared penetrate? Are those seeds kept in the back of their minds to sprout at another time, when God will save them? I don't know. Your child could have exhibited rebelliousness and resistance all through his teen years and suddenly he gets into a car accident and in his final moments as his consciousness is fading, he remembers God's words that you gave him so many times. Within moments he feels godly sorrow, realizes his sinful life and reaches out and asks Jesus for forgiveness ( like the man next to Jesus on the cross did) in his last breath, then dies. "You and your household ..." that's a loving and merciful God, full of grace.
We do not know what God is doing in someone's life and should not be so judgmental and condemning.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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The Jews were blinded for our sake. God will open their eyes soon too. (Rom. 11 confirms this).
As far as the rules, Jesus said believe in Him and you will be saved. Actually, those who call out His name will be saved. That in itself is a demonstration of some faith. Another passage says, "you and your houshold will be saved".
Acts 16:31
So what does that mean, if an unbeliever or even a non-trinitarian lives in your house ( a son, daughter, wife), they will be saved too?
That passage always perplexed me.
A person's faith in a houshold can have such an effect on everyone. The words of God are often spoken and shared. Their family experiences a changed life, joy and love that spills over onto all in the household. It's odd, because we often have unbelievers or loved ones of different faiths in our own household. There is often friction, arguments, we are unequally yoked and they apparently resist and remain in disbelief. So what's going on inside that we don't know about? Did those scriptures we shared penetrate? Are those seeds kept in the back of their minds to sprout at another time, when God will save them? I don't know. Your child could have exhibited rebelliousness and resistance all through his teen years and suddenly he gets into a car accident and in his final moments as his consciousness is fading, he remembers God's words that you gave him so many times. Within moments he feels godly sorrow, realizes his sinful life and reaches out and asks Jesus for forgiveness ( like the man next to Jesus on the cross did) in his last breath, then dies. "You and your household ..." that's a loving and merciful God, full of grace.
We do not know what God is doing in someone's life and should not be so judgmental and condemning.
Now do you remember that the Jews who followed Jesus did not truly know that he was Jesus Christ until he went to Heaven in fact.
Now Nathaniel was a true Israelite ! Jesus said so in fact ? and more as well as to what he would see ! now remember their is a difference between one being only Jews and they who are worthy of being an Israelite in fact and that all of Jesus true disciples were worthy of God ? that means that they were worthy of being Israelites, they have real faith in Holy Moses in fact and that's why they had faith in Jesus ? because they were worthy of Holy Moses ! the other Jews and so called Jews did not truly have faith in Holy Moses. they had faith in man:rolleyes: and that's why they are blinded as is anyone in fact Jew or other wise they are all blinded. it's because they don't care for such a thing, as their direction is in man. and that's clear to me ? it took many years to understand that ? then the penny dropped and I understood that the fact is that they just don't give a rats truly, regardless of being Jews or not. you see in in family's one will be open to such things about God and another is not and all were brought up the same.
Now when I looked into such and just found that the ones who reject Jesus Christ have a hard heart, they can be people that I do like but they do have a hard heart and that's not nice to see them like that, it's painful ! to them and others.

It about calling on his name ? there is much more to this than what you are playing with that carnal type of dribble.
One calls on his name because you have faith in him and to give you strength.

Your household is the ones in Christ Jesus in fact.

A Trinitarian ? their is no such thing. some people may not have a handle on the Trinity, due to deceptions as to what they may think that it is.
From a carnal point of view one can not understand the Trinity truly.
No one is a Trinitarian as there is only one God, there are not 3 gods ? but 3 different aspects in one.
Not to mention remember as to the Hebrews they do hold 3 is a special number in God etc as do other numbers for reasons.

One has to be saved to go to Heaven, one has to be born again to enter into the Kingdom of God. the Souls who have good faith in Jesus Christ do not go to Hell. They who reject Jesus Christ are going to Hell.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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Now do you remember that the Jews who followed Jesus did not truly know that he was Jesus Christ until he went to Heaven in fact.
Now Nathaniel was a true Israelite ! Jesus said so in fact ? and more as well as to what he would see ! now remember their is a difference between one being only Jews and they who are worthy of being an Israelite in fact and that all of Jesus true disciples were worthy of God ? that means that they were worthy of being Israelites, they have real faith in Holy Moses in fact and that's why they had faith in Jesus ? because they were worthy of Holy Moses ! the other Jews and so called Jews did not truly have faith in Holy Moses. they had faith in man:rolleyes: and that's why they are blinded as is anyone in fact Jew or other wise they are all blinded. it's because they don't care for such a thing, as their direction is in man. and that's clear to me ? it took many years to understand that ? then the penny dropped and I understood that the fact is that they just don't give a rats truly, regardless of being Jews or not. you see in in family's one will be open to such things about God and another is not and all were brought up the same.
Now when I looked into such and just found that the ones who reject Jesus Christ have a hard heart, they can be people that I do like but they do have a hard heart and that's not nice to see them like that, it's painful ! to them and others.

It about calling on his name ? there is much more to this than what you are playing with that carnal type of dribble.
One calls on his name because you have faith in him and to give you strength.

Your household is the ones in Christ Jesus in fact.

A Trinitarian ? their is no such thing. some people may not have a handle on the Trinity, due to deceptions as to what they may think that it is.
From a carnal point of view one can not understand the Trinity truly.
No one is a Trinitarian as there is only one God, there are not 3 gods ? but 3 different aspects in one.
Not to mention remember as to the Hebrews they do hold 3 is a special number in God etc as do other numbers for reasons.

One has to be saved to go to Heaven, one has to be born again to enter into the Kingdom of God. the Souls who have good faith in Jesus Christ do not go to Hell. They who reject Jesus Christ are going to Hell.
None of us are worthy. Just because the Israelites were in the bloodline did'nt make them worthy either. They failed over and over again. God sent nations to conquer them and enslave them.
Probably 1/3 of the Jews believed in Jesus. They saw His miracles. Some of the Pharisees and Sanhedrin did as well - Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimethia. There were mixed reactions. Jesus said and did things purposely to harden their hearts. He knew exactly what to say so that they would think He balsphemed God by saying, "Before Abraham was, I Am." He put himself equal with His Father. He turned over the tables in the Temple and He even condemned them to the Gehenna. He was gaining popularity and they were looking like powerless fools with the people losing respect for them and so their hearts became hardened. They had to get rid of Him to keep their positions. Study Romans 11. You will see that the chapter differentiates the Church and the Jews. God is not done with them yet. He will lift their veils of blindness during the GT -not all Jews but a remnant, Israek will be saved.