Do you accept this a Biblical fact or fiction?:

keithr said:

You quote this verse and yet you don't believe it! Hear God, He says, "This is My beloved Son". Jesus is God's Son - he is not God!


Jesus did declare openly that he had come from heaven and from God, and that he was God's son:

John 6:38) For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me.
John 7:

28) Jesus therefore cried out in the temple, teaching and saying, “You both know me, and know where I am from. I have not come of myself, but he who sent me is true, whom you don’t know.
29) I know him, because I am from him, and he sent me.”​

John 8:

42) Therefore Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I came out and have come from God. For I haven’t come of myself, but he sent me.
43) Why don’t you understand my speech? Because you can’t hear my word.​

John 8:54) Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is our God.

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The fact that you don't understand relativity physics or know how to use it to apply simple logic, doesn't negate the truth.

Time and space are not separate entities.
The Father that Jesus referred to is God the eternal spirit, self existant and not a part of His creation. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God intersecting with the world and operating in time. The Son of God is the eternal spirit taking the form of man in the person of His Son. One God manifested as 3, the eternal spirit existing outside of creation, the eternal spirit manifesting in creation, the eternal spirit manifested in flesh.
God's interaction with creation necessitates taking on limitations, but the eternal spirit of the Father is without limits, present everywhere, throughout time and outside of time. We live in creation and experience time sequentially so it isn't possible for us to interact with God the Father except through His Spirit and the mediation of His Son.
It's not exactly rocket science.

keithr said:

Eh? I didn't get upset about the Holy Spirit being called good! I was just inclined not to trust the teachings of somebody who appeared to have changed the word 'Holy' to 'good' so that it would fit his theory that God is not one but is three.


I did not say that Jesus was a sinner, nor that the Holy Spirit is not good. Repent of your lies!

Repentance is a deep sorrow and regret for a past sin or wrongdoing; to say sorry to God and to ask for His forgiveness.

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And everyone who breaks the Eternal commandment of God should be sorrowful.

YHWH gave a Eternal Commandment in Genesis and Exodus and in the Gospels.

Genesis - Let US make man in Our Image, the writings of the lives of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to describe to all who seek to follow YHWH which YHWH takes us to introduce HIS NAME to us in Exodus 3: 14-15

And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel:
‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.
This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations

There is a carnal way to study God's Word and a Righteous Way.
"Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

There is a RIGHT WAY to divide the word of truth - Deut 4:1-2 Proverbs 30:5-6 Revelation 22:18-19

michaelvpardo said:

The fact that you don't understand relativity physics or know how to use it to apply simple logic, doesn't negate the truth.

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What makes you think I don't understand it? Just because space and time are part of the universe/digital simulation that we live in, that doesn't mean that Jesus has to be God!

The Father that Jesus referred to is God the eternal spirit, self existant and not a part of His creation. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God intersecting with the world and operating in time. The Son of God is the eternal spirit taking the form of man in the person of His Son.

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Eh? The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the eternal spirit, and Jesus is the eternal spirit who is the son of the eternal spirit?!!! What was that you were saying about simple logic again?! The words of the apostle Paul come to mind (2 Corinthians 11:3):

We live in creation and experience time sequentially so it isn't possible for us to interact with God the Father except through His Spirit and the mediation of His Son.
It's not exactly rocket science.

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No. Rocket science is logical and makes sense. What you're saying doesn't! The Bible is full of instances of God interacting with mankind - through angels (messengers), through men (prophets) and directly.

David in NJ said:

YHWH gave a Eternal Commandment in Genesis and Exodus and in the Gospels.

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You're like a scratched record, stuck on repeating the same corrupted sound over and over! I'm not going to waste my time going over that again (again).

... Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
There is a RIGHT WAY to divide the word of truth - Deut 4:1-2 Proverbs 30:5-6 Revelation 22:18-19

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(Deu 4:2) You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of Yahweh your God which I command you.
(Pro 30:6) Don’t you add to his words, lest he reprove you, and you be found a liar.

Well, you have added to the word of God to try and support your idea of the non-Biblical Trinity theory, and to convert God's telling us His name into a commandment and a corruption of His name. You have not rightly handled word of truth.

keithr said:

What makes you think I don't understand it? Just because space and time are part of the universe/digital simulation that we live in, that doesn't mean that Jesus has to be God!


Eh? The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the eternal spirit, and Jesus is the eternal spirit who is the son of the eternal spirit?!!! What was that you were saying about simple logic again?! The words of the apostle Paul come to mind (2 Corinthians 11:3):

But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve in his craftiness, so your minds might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.​

No. Rocket science is logical and makes sense. What you're saying doesn't! The Bible is full of instances of God interacting with mankind - through angels (messengers), through men (prophets) and directly.

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The First interaction of God with man is in Genesis when He created Adam and then Eve, placed them in the Garden and both spoke with them and walked with them in the Garden.

Who was this that walked with Adam and Eve? Was it God the Father or God the Son or God the Holy Spirit?

keithr said:

You're like a scratched record, stuck on repeating the same corrupted sound over and over! I'm not going to waste my time going over that again (again).


(Deu 4:2) You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of Yahweh your God which I command you.
(Pro 30:6) Don’t you add to his words, lest he reprove you, and you be found a liar.

Well, you have added to the word of God to try and support your idea of the non-Biblical Trinity theory, and to convert God's telling us His name into a commandment and a corruption of His name. You have not rightly handled word of truth.

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OK, let's go with that, since you love me enough to point out my lack and need of repentance - i accept.

Please show me the Scriptures in which i 'add or take away' - Thank You - this is important to me.

David in NJ said:

OK, let's go with that, since you love me enough to point out my lack and need of repentance - i accept.

Please show me the Scriptures in which i 'add or take away' - Thank You - this is important to me.

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David in post #482: And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel:
‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.
This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations
......................................
According to the actual Hebrew text:
Exodus 3:15
American Standard Version

"15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah [YHWH not ehyeh], the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."
.......................
YHWH (traditionally "Jehovah" in English, sometimes transliterated "Yahweh" or "Yehowah") does not translate to "LORD" or "Lord"! And "Lord" or "LORD" is not "this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."

For about 6000 times God has used his "Holy Name" in scripture as YHWH, and ehyeh is applied to him only this once (as an explanation of His personal name YHWH).

keithr said:

What makes you think I don't understand it? Just because space and time are part of the universe/digital simulation that we live in, that doesn't mean that Jesus has to be God!


Eh? The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the eternal spirit, and Jesus is the eternal spirit who is the son of the eternal spirit?!!! What was that you were saying about simple logic again?! The words of the apostle Paul come to mind (2 Corinthians 11:3):

But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve in his craftiness, so your minds might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.​

No. Rocket science is logical and makes sense. What you're saying doesn't! The Bible is full of instances of God interacting with mankind - through angels (messengers), through men (prophets) and directly.

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What I said makes perfect sense and the fact that you can't receive it proves that you have no interest in the truth. Would you like me to draw out the tautology in my previous statement? Perhaps you'd like to see the Boolean expression. Both confirm the TRUTH.

archy meets warty bliggens

i met a toad
the other day by the name
of warty bliggens
he was sitting under
a toadstool
feeling contented
he explained that when the cosmos
was created
that toadstool was especially
planned for his personal
shelter from sun and rain
thought out and prepared
for him

do not tell me said warty bliggens
that there is not a purpose in the universe
the thought is blasphemy

a little more conversation revealed
that warty bliggens considers himself to be
the center of the said
universe
the earth exists
to grow toadstools for him
to sit under
the sun to give him light
by day and the moon
and wheeling constellations
to make beautiful
the night for the sake of
warty bliggens

to what act of yours
do you impute
this interest on the part
of the creator
of the universe
i asked him
why is it that you
are so greatly favored

ask rather
said warty bliggens
what the universe
has done to deserve me

if i were a human being i would
not laugh
too complacently
at poor warty bliggens
for similar
absurdities
have only too often
lodged in the crinkles
of the human cerebrum

archy

keithr said:

What makes you think I don't understand it? Just because space and time are part of the universe/digital simulation that we live in, that doesn't mean that Jesus has to be God!


Eh? The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the eternal spirit, and Jesus is the eternal spirit who is the son of the eternal spirit?!!! What was that you were saying about simple logic again?! The words of the apostle Paul come to mind (2 Corinthians 11:3):

But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve in his craftiness, so your minds might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.​

No. Rocket science is logical and makes sense. What you're saying doesn't! The Bible is full of instances of God interacting with mankind - through angels (messengers), through men (prophets) and directly.

Click to expand...

Yes the Bible is full of interactions with God the Holy Spirit, the Angel of the Lord, and the Lord Yah shua the Christ who is Yah Havah in the flesh.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face,
as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle. Exodus 33:11
These verses are not mutually exclusive because Moses spoke regularly with Jesus before He was born into a body (prepared for Him.)
Moses even renamed his servant Oshea the son of nun, calling him Joshua, in order to hallow God in the person of Joshua, who would be a type of the Lord Jesus Christ.

michaelvpardo said:

Yes the Bible is full of interactions with God the Holy Spirit, the Angel of the Lord, and the Lord Yah shua the Christ who is Yah Havah in the flesh.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face,
as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle. Exodus 33:11
These verses are not mutually exclusive because Moses spoke regularly with Jesus before He was born into a body (prepared for Him.)
Moses even renamed his servant Oshea the son of nun, calling him Joshua, in order to hallow God in the person of Joshua, who would be a type of the Lord Jesus Christ.

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BINGO - can only be the Lord - the Son -

It was the Son who spoke to and walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden.

michaelvpardo said:

Yes the Bible is full of interactions with God the Holy Spirit, the Angel of the Lord, and the Lord Yah shua the Christ who is Yah Havah in the flesh.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face,
as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle. Exodus 33:11
These verses are not mutually exclusive because Moses spoke regularly with Jesus before He was born into a body (prepared for Him.)
Moses even renamed his servant Oshea the son of nun, calling him Joshua, in order to hallow God in the person of Joshua, who would be a type of the Lord Jesus Christ.

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The Word is so Glorious that He does not permit the carnal logic of man to understand - only through the Holy Spirit and bowing the knee to His Word do we find the pleasure of His Truth - Amen.

David in NJ said:

Who was this that walked with Adam and Eve? Was it God the Father or God the Son or God the Holy Spirit?

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Genesis 3 (WEB):

From what Moses wrote it seems to imply that it was Yahweh, although it may have been an angel sent by God, we can't be sure (considering Jesus said "No one has seen God at any time" - John 1:18). It certainly wasn't 'God the Son' or 'God the Holy Spirit' because there are no such persons mentioned in the Bible!

David in NJ said:

Please show me the Scriptures in which i 'add or take away' - Thank You - this is important to me.

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I was thinking of your posts on Exodus 3:14-15, the latest of which was post #424, where you wrote:

David in NJ said:

Exodus 3: 14-15
God(Elohim) said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites,
‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

THREE ELOHIM
ELOHIM Abraham - Father
ELOHIM Isaac - Son
ELOHIM Jacob - Holy Spirit

We are commanded to assemble ourselves under and in these THREE ELOHIM.
Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them,
‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob = Father Son Holy Spirit =
these Three are Echad

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Verse 15 says:

Your stating of the three elohim is not rightly handling the Scriptures. There are not three Gods, verse 15 says that Yahweh is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - Yahweh is the God of everyone! Also His name is Yahweh, not "the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob", as you've implied previously. This is confirmed by Isaiah 42:8 (WEB): “I am Yahweh. That is my name. I will not give my glory to another, nor my praise to engraved images".

Verse 16 says:

In your quotation you added "= Father Son Holy Spirit =" and "these Three are Echad". That is clearly not in that verse.

michaelvpardo said:

What I said makes perfect sense and the fact that you can't receive it proves that you have no interest in the truth. Would you like me to draw out the tautology in my previous statement? Perhaps you'd like to see the Boolean expression. Both confirm the TRUTH.

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No thank you. I'm only interested in using the Scriptures to explain and harmonise other Scriptures.

keithr said:

Genesis 3 (WEB):

8) They heard Yahweh God’s voice walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of Yahweh God among the trees of the garden.
9) Yahweh God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?”​

From what Moses wrote it seems to imply that it was Yahweh, although it may have been an angel sent by God, we can't be sure (considering Jesus said "No one has seen God at any time" - John 1:18). It certainly wasn't 'God the Son' or 'God the Holy Spirit' because there are no such persons mentioned in the Bible!

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Why could it not be the Son?

keithr said:

I was thinking of your posts on Exodus 3:14-15, the latest of which was post #424, where you wrote:


Verse 15 says:

God said moreover to Moses, “You shall tell the children of Israel this, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations.​

Your stating of the three elohim is not rightly handling the Scriptures. There are not three Gods, verse 15 says that Yahweh is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - Yahweh is the God of everyone! Also His name is Yahweh, not "the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob", as you've implied previously. This is confirmed by Isaiah 42:8 (WEB): “I am Yahweh. That is my name. I will not give my glory to another, nor my praise to engraved images".

Verse 16 says:

Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and tell them, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has appeared to me, saying, “I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt;​

In your quotation you added "= Father Son Holy Spirit =" and "these Three are Echad". That is clearly not in that verse.

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Beloved Brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,
In Genesis and Exodus, YHWH (ELOHIM, God) established Himself as Three Persons in One(Echad).
Genesis declares to us "Let Us make man in Our Image, according to Our Likeness"
Genesis focuses on these Three: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob their lives tell His Story of who He IS.
In Exodus, YHWH permanently attaches Himself to Abraham/Isaac/Jacob by declaring His NAME in these THREE.
In Deuteronomy YHWH gives to us the Shema: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our ELOHIM, the LORD is Echad!"

So i did not add to or take away from Scripture, which is FORBIDDEN.

Isaiah 43 -
“You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“and My servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may consider and believe Me
and understand that I am He.
Before Me no god was formed,
and after Me none will come. I, yes, I am the LORD,
and there is no Savior but Me.

Acts ch1 & ch4
"you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who walked with Adam & Eve in the Garden, who met with Abraham and Moses and Joshua.

It is only by Obedience to the Word and the empowerment of the Holy Spirit can we come to the Father - no other way.

David in NJ said:

Why could it not be the Son?

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It could have been Jesus. But as I wrote, there is no such person as "God the Son".

keithr said:

It could have been Jesus. But as I wrote, there is no such person as "God the Son".

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Then there is no jesus who can save you from your sins.

“You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“and My servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may consider and believe Me
and understand that I am He.
Before Me no god was formed,
and after Me none will come. I, yes, I am the LORD,
and there is no Savior but Me.

David in NJ said:

In Genesis and Exodus, YHWH (ELOHIM, God) established Himself as Three Persons in One(Echad).

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You have not provided any evidence to support that. You have merely assumed that because God mentions three men that that somehow means that God is made up of three persons - but that is not what the Scripture says, and it is totally illogical to draw that conclusion. Peter said, "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his Servant Jesus" (Acts 3:13) - there is just one God, not three, and Peter obviously didn't think Jesus was God if he called him God's servant (Peter knew Jesus was the son of God).

Genesis declares to us "Let Us make man in Our Image, according to Our Likeness"

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Which is God (Yahweh) speaking to His son Jesus, directing him on what to create next (for "God ... created all things through Jesus Christ" - Ephesians 3:9). Again it is totally illogical to deduce that God is anything other than a single living being from that, or any other, verse.

Genesis focuses on these Three: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob their lives tell His Story of who He IS.

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Genesis focuses on the creation, the flood, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph. In what way do the lives of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob tell the story of who God is?

In Exodus, YHWH permanently attaches Himself to Abraham/Isaac/Jacob by declaring His NAME in these THREE.

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Please explain what you mean by "declaring His name in these three" and how you think that implies God is three persons. God made promises to those three men, and they are the fathers of the nation of Israel. I don't see any implication that God is three persons there.

In Deuteronomy YHWH gives to us the Shema: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our ELOHIM, the LORD is Echad!"

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Definitely no implication that God is three persons there.

So i did not add to or take away from Scripture, which is FORBIDDEN.

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You quoted a verse which you had modified by taking words from other verses and inserting them, thereby making it appear that God had said something that He did not.