When was the last time....

aspen said:

Hey there everyone,

I have noticed a board full of strong opinions. Indeed, everyone who posts here regularly, appears convinced that their opinion is not opinion, at all, but a clear understanding of the teachings of scripture or the church. So, I am wondering, when was the last time you changed your opinion based on reading the strong opinion of someone's post on this board? How often has it happened? I think it is an important question to ask, because if you have never changed your understanding of scripture (opinion on scripture) chances are that no one has changed theirs either. If this is the case, we are all simply talking to ourselves - an example of the blind leading the blind, perhaps?

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I haven't been here very long, not even long enough to know others beliefs. However, I did change many of my position about four years ago after reading and conversing with several individuals on another board and after an extensive study of the Ante-Nicene church writers.

aspen said:

Hey there everyone,

I have noticed a board full of strong opinions. Indeed, everyone who posts here regularly, appears convinced that their opinion is not opinion, at all, but a clear understanding of the teachings of scripture or the church. So, I am wondering, when was the last time you changed your opinion based on reading the strong opinion of someone's post on this board? How often has it happened? I think it is an important question to ask, because if you have never changed your understanding of scripture (opinion on scripture) chances are that no one has changed theirs either. If this is the case, we are all simply talking to ourselves - an example of the blind leading the blind, perhaps?

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Like Butch, I too have not been on this site long enough, but I have changed my opinion of things that I thought was true in the past. I believe that if you truly can say that you have never changed your opinion on anything then you have not really learned anything. You are just parroting what you have been taught and then refuse to really listen to anyone or anything that disagrees with your standpoint. And because I have changed my position of things in the past, I try very hard not to ever tell someone that they are flat our wrong, even if they disagree with my standpoint on things.. because who knows, I might change my opinion on things again. I think the hight of arrogance and pride, is when Christians start making comments like, "well you can believe that if you want, but I will believe the truth." or "This is not my personal interpretation, this is the truth". Which is to imply that anyone who dares to disagree with them is by definition wrong. This personal stance is nothing more than plan hubris. Of course, this is just my personal opinion.

Joshua David

Personally I have learned what other people believe, and that has given me an understanding of which group of people it is, that is least likely to goto Jesus and be taught the truth.



What I have been taught by God over the last thirty some years has been,been made clearer to me by reading posts on the forums.



My job is not to convince people about what God wants, but only to give a word. If people are just jarred enough to say, maybe I am not so right after all, they will go to Jesus to make sure.

aspen said:

Interesting - well, that is good news!

I have been thinking about my own question and, although I have been influenced by several people here - they have all been people that I already agree with on some level. The people with strong opinions that differ from mine, especially those who use sarcasm and name-calling as a regular part of their witness - their words seem to go in one ear and out the other. In fact, sarcasm makes me want to argue, every time I see it.

Honestly, this worries me because it would seem that instead of learning, most people on message boards are simply bunkering down in their own beliefs! Believing that they are holding fast to the truth.....

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Yes, that's been my experience also. It's hard sometimes to not reply when someone is sarcastic or uses name calling. However, I try to keep in mind that I represent Christ and He's watching even if nobody else worries about it. I also realize as you mentioned that no one is going to listen to you if you are sarcastic and call people names. I try to keep an open mind and listen to everyone's argument, receive what they say and compare it to Scripture. I was forced to search the Scriptures several years ago. After attending Baptist churches for many years, our church split and a friend and I began attending a Presbyterian church. After a while it became quite clear that they were teaching me things that were the opposite things the Baptist church was teaching me. I realized that they couldn't both be correct. That began my odyssey to find the truth. That lead me to several individuals who were fluent in Greek and Hebrew. Their understanding of the original languages was a major benefit to me. That alone with my study of the Early church has been invaluable.

I guess we should all take an example from Saul, a pharisee , well regarded by his peers for all his head knowledge, knew the scriptures well, loved by the pharisees for his determination to believe and keep them and live by them, ended up murdering Christians, yet the pharisees, his peers loved him. Then he met Christ, not in a book, not in a church, just out there somewhere, a revelation, and experience, then Paul counted all his knowledge all that he knew as worthless, just wanted to know Christ, and yet Christians disregard Christ like saul, and fill there heads with knowledge. and yet never going to Christ so He can give them revelation, to many, knowing scripture is more important then knowing Christ, it has to be the other way round.

in HisLove

Butch5 said:

Yes, that's been my experience also. It's hard sometimes to not reply when someone is sarcastic or uses name calling. However, I try to keep in mind that I represent Christ and He's watching even if nobody else worries about it. I also realize as you mentioned that no one is going to listen to you if you are sarcastic and call people names. I try to keep an open mind and listen to everyone's argument, receive what they say and compare it to Scripture. I was forced to search the Scriptures several years ago. After attending Baptist churches for many years, our church split and a friend and I began attending a Presbyterian church. After a while it became quite clear that they were teaching me things that were the opposite things the Baptist church was teaching me. I realized that they couldn't both be correct. That began my odyssey to find the truth. That lead me to several individuals who were fluent in Greek and Hebrew. Their understanding of the original languages was a major benefit to me. That alone with my study of the Early church has been invaluable.

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A closed mind is like a closed parachute. I like what you say here "I try to keep an open mind and listen to everyone's argument, receive what they say and compare it to Scripture."

justaname said:

A closed mind is like a closed parachute. I like what you say here "I try to keep an open mind and listen to everyone's argument, receive what they say and compare it to Scripture."

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That has been a tremendous asset. Since I began doing that I have learned much. As I said I was forced to look at the Scriptures when I was faced with opposing teachings. The funny thing is some of what both churches were teaching was not in Bible. Since I didn't know what was true I basically took everything I believed and laid it on the table. Little by little I held it all up to Scripture, what stood up to Scripture I kept what didn't I tossed. I didn't worry about favorite or pet doctrines; I didn't try to protect any doctrines. I was searching for the truth and as such I had to be brutally honest, in the end I probably changed close to 80% of what I had believed. Several very popular modern doctrines were tossed because I could fine no evidence of them in Scripture. Likewise, after studying the Ante-Nicene church I found that they believed several things that are not taught in the church today. It has lead me to see that what we call Christianity today is very different from what the Apostles taught. Some of the things they believed were hard for me to accept but again, I was being brutally honest. If I claim to be seeking the truth then I must accept that truth whether it agrees with what I believe or not. For instance, they Ante-Nicene church (The church prior to 325 AD) was non-resistant. They would not use violence period. Now, I was always pro war, pro death penalty, and pro-self defense. So, this was a surprise to me, but when I looked at the evidence for their case I couldn’t refute it. They had a sound case and strong Biblical support. So, I was faced with a decision, ignore it or accept it. If I really was seeking the truth as I claimed then I only had one choice, and that is what I did. I accepted it. I struggled in the beginning but the more it looked into the issue the stronger their case became. There were popular doctrines that I was forced to abandon also, I abandoned OSAS, the heavenly destiny, the state church, conformity to the world and more. It was a radical change, but it came from seeking the truth.

I don't know if my opinion has changed on any particular matter. Some of my views have changed, and I don't have any examples right now. I'm always open to the fact that I might be wrong.

I haven't really been here long enough to say one way or the other about anyone's opinions changing my mind, exactly, but I do know that over the years, I listen closely to what people say and I HAVE changed my opinions in the past. I know I'm not perfect, and I know that I don't understand the Bible to its full extent, so the best thing I know to do is state my opinion about something, and if someone corrects me (in a civil way! I don't particularly like to listen to people who are sarcastic, put my opinion down, or think they're honestly better than I am. Who wants to listen to that, even if they ARE right...know what I mean? :\ ), I'm fine with that. I'm one of God's children, so learning His word is my utmost priority in life. And when I listen to people, I always try to make sure that what I'm hearing is Biblically accurate...if something doesn't make sense to me, I try to find Biblical verses stating whether or not what was said was true or not. Anyhow, that's my look on things. Always listen, but don't always assume what you're hearing is correct; always find out for yourself, whether you think they're right or not. ^^

Proverbs 1:5 - Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance...

calbhach said:

I haven't really been here long enough to say one way or the other about anyone's opinions changing my mind, exactly, but I do know that over the years, I listen closely to what people say and I HAVE changed my opinions in the past. I know I'm not perfect, and I know that I don't understand the Bible to its full extent, so the best thing I know to do is state my opinion about something, and if someone corrects me (in a civil way! I don't particularly like to listen to people who are sarcastic, put my opinion down, or think they're honestly better than I am. Who wants to listen to that, even if they ARE right...know what I mean? :\ ), I'm fine with that. I'm one of God's children, so learning His word is my utmost priority in life. And when I listen to people, I always try to make sure that what I'm hearing is Biblically accurate...if something doesn't make sense to me, I try to find Biblical verses stating whether or not what was said was true or not. Anyhow, that's my look on things. Always listen, but don't always assume what you're hearing is correct; always find out for yourself, whether you think they're right or not. ^^

Proverbs 1:5 - Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance...

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Calbhach,

If you can maintain that humble attitude, then I think you stand head and shoulders above all those 'bible scholars' who think that they know everything.

Joshua David

Opinions have been altered on:

- The Rapture
- Tithing
- Gifts of the Holy Spirit
- Some End-Of-Time events

There are a number of topics that have made me stop and re-evaluate, but when I researched - both the materials I had and the materials suggested to me - in many cases my opinion remained the same (with some tweaking).

That isn't because I am "always right." It is because I actually ensure that what I believe is true before I put heartfelt faith in it.

If I knew everything I would need to come to a board like this.

Foreigner said:

Opinions have been altered on:

- The Rapture
- Tithing
- Gifts of the Holy Spirit
- Some End-Of-Time events

There are a number of topics that have made me stop and re-evaluate, but when I researched - both the materials I had and the materials suggested to me - in many cases my opinion remained the same (with some tweaking).

That isn't because I am "always right." It is because I actually ensure that what I believe is true before I put heartfelt faith in it.

If I knew everything I would need to come to a board like this.

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As a Christian my 'faith', first and foremost rests upon the person of Jesus Christ.

Ideology comes and goes, but Christ remains the same.

None of the subjects you mentioned are core principles of the Christian faith. In fact a couple of them are controversial subjects among Christians and are held in contempt by those without Christ.

The rapture - A wholly misused and misunderstood idea system, which is neither scriptural nor coherent in sound teaching.
Tithing - An ideology which is pushed a lot by church leaders, but which is not mentioned in the N.T. at all.
Gifts of the Holy Spirit - The manifestation and work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer is linked to sanctification, which many Christians deny. They prefer the lordship of the self and the leadership of charismatic humans rather than the lordship and leadership of Almighty God. In many churchs the Holy Spirit isn't mentioned at all and when He is, His ministry is linked to the lunatic fringe. It is NOT considered to be a core concept of most churches.
End Time Events - These ideas are also linked to the lunatic fringe, mostly because many individuals have taken it upon themselves to publish works which are little more than fear mongering.

Many main line churches today do not accept the doctrines of;
- the resurrection of the body
- the second coming of Christ
- the rapture, the tribulation and the millenium (as the reign of Christ upon the earth)
- final judgment
- the outpouring and gifts of the Holy Spirit (sanctification)
- personal committment to and an experience of (salvation) in the name of Jesus Christ as a primary condition for becoming Christian
- hell and satan as a real place and person

This is not to say that I agree with any of this. My purpose here is to add to discussion about modern church heresy (ie: Rob Bell) and to define core values of the faith.

Sorry rjp but I great your post with a collective yawn.

Foreigner said:

If I knew everything I would need to come to a board like this.

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Then why are you posting erroneous information?

*yawn*