The Flesh & The Spirit

Alethos · Apr 9, 2011

The Flesh and The Spirit

It is true; sin is the cause of death. But who prompts us to sin?

Many Christians today believe it’s the work of the devil who prompts us to sin?

No Bible answer can be more powerful than what has already been quoted from James:

"Every man is tempted when he is drawn away of HIS OWN LUST, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin, and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death" (Jas. 1:14, 15).

My own experience agrees with this fundamental Bible truth; sin originates in the untrained natural inclinations of ourselves. So Paul tells us its inside of us which he calls "another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind". Paul takes us to the mind where the battle is either won of lost.

We all understand the existence of this law which works in our members (Rom 7:23), it's impulses are uncontrolled and drives us against the spiritual virtues of Gods Wisdom. The world obeys this law of sin leading to death...and it "lieth in wickedness". 1 John 5:19

Unfortunately those of this world who choose to remain of it, will have no understanding of divine truth, which God places into the minds of believers. Phil 2:5

John defines all that is in the world – (note: no devil mentioned here)

"ALL that is in the world" John defines to be "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life" (1 John 2:16).

This way of thinking only becomes apparent when the Spirit Mind is also working in us, else the natural mind cannot of itself know anything spiritual.

Just as Jesus told us...

"The words that I speak unto you", says Jesus, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:64).

Our warfare then is established inside of our nature by the introduction of another mind which is wars against; this internal battle is titled "The Flesh vs. The Spirit". Gal 5:16 Gal 5:17 Phil 3:3 The desires of the flesh and the commands of the Spirit. This is described by Paul in the following words: "The flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary the one to the other" (Gal. 5:17). "Walk in the spirit",

says he "and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh" (verse 16).

He says in another place, "Let not sin, therefore, reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof" (Rom. 6:12).

For they that are after the flesh do "mind" the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally (animal = serpent) minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal (animal) mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now, if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. . .

Therefore, Christians, we are debtors, not to the (mind of the) flesh, to live after the flesh. For if you live after the flesh you shall die: but if you through the (mind of the) Spirit do mortify (kill) the deeds (works) of the body, you shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit (mind) of God, they are the sons of God (Rom.8:5-9, 12-14).

A true Christian must kill the works of the flesh and not blame some supernatural non existent being for those lusts which origante from within.

Alethos

Luke 6:45 Matt 15:18 Jude 1:8 and so on...

Duckybill · Apr 9, 2011

Anyone else wonder why someone would be dedicated to covering up Satan's works?

Matthew 4:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan!

Was Jesus nutty?

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

Duckybill said:
Anyone else wonder why someone would be dedicated to covering up Satan's works?

Matthew 4:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan!

Was Jesus nutty?

The weight of evidence is somewhat overwhelming. The Bible speaks of such beautiful truth and once it is understood people can be freed from the doctrines of devils 1 Tim 4:1 (KJV) and move onwards fighting the good fight 1 Tim 6:12 & 2 Tim 4:7.

Alethos

Thankful 1 · Apr 10, 2011

Truth said:
The Flesh and The Spirit

It is true; sin is the cause of death. But who prompts us to sin?

Many Christians today believe it’s the work of the devil who prompts us to sin?

No Bible answer can be more powerful than what has already been quoted from James:

"Every man is tempted when he is drawn away of HIS OWN LUST, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin, and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death" (Jas. 1:14, 15).

My own experience agrees with this fundamental Bible truth; sin originates in the untrained natural inclinations of ourselves. So Paul tells us its inside of us which he calls "another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind". Paul takes us to the mind where the battle is either won of lost.

We all understand the existence of this law which works in our members (Rom 7:23), it's impulses are uncontrolled and drives us against the spiritual virtues of Gods Wisdom. The world obeys this law of sin leading to death...and it "lieth in wickedness". 1 John 5:19

Unfortunately those of this world who choose to remain of it, will have no understanding of divine truth, which God places into the minds of believers. Phil 2:5

John defines all that is in the world – (note: no devil mentioned here)

"ALL that is in the world" John defines to be "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life" (1 John 2:16).

This way of thinking only becomes apparent when the Spirit Mind is also working in us, else the natural mind cannot of itself know anything spiritual.

Just as Jesus told us...

"The words that I speak unto you", says Jesus, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:64).

Our warfare then is established inside of our nature by the introduction of another mind which is wars against; this internal battle is titled "The Flesh vs. The Spirit". Gal 5:16 Gal 5:17 Phil 3:3 The desires of the flesh and the commands of the Spirit. This is described by Paul in the following words: "The flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary the one to the other" (Gal. 5:17). "Walk in the spirit",

says he "and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh" (verse 16).

He says in another place, "Let not sin, therefore, reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof" (Rom. 6:12).

For they that are after the flesh do "mind" the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally (animal = serpent) minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal (animal) mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now, if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. . .

Therefore, Christians, we are debtors, not to the (mind of the) flesh, to live after the flesh. For if you live after the flesh you shall die: but if you through the (mind of the) Spirit do mortify (kill) the deeds (works) of the body, you shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit (mind) of God, they are the sons of God (Rom.8:5-9, 12-14).

A true Christian must kill the works of the flesh and not blame some supernatural non existent being for those lusts which origante from within.

Alethos

Luke 6:45 Matt 15:18 Jude 1:8 and so on...

Satan is outthere like a roaring lion waiting to devour the unwary.

Satan can anddoes place evil thoughts into the mind of a person. When that person takes ownership of those thoughts, and acts onthem, then he or she may be drawn away by his or her own lusts.

The Holy Spiritgives one the grace to not take ownership of those evil thoughts.

(Galatians 5:16) “Let meput it like this if you are guided by the Spirit you will be in no danger ofyielding to self-indulgence....”.

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

Thankful 1 said:
Satan is outthere like a roaring lion waiting to devour the unwary.

Satan can anddoes place evil thoughts into the mind of a person. When that person takes ownership of those thoughts, and acts onthem, then he or she may be drawn away by his or her own lusts.

The Holy Spiritgives one the grace to not take ownership of those evil thoughts.

(Galatians 5:16) “Let meput it like this if you are guided by the Spirit you will be in no danger ofyielding to self-indulgence....”.

Gal 5:16 is speaking about the flesh! which is the devil that Jesus destroyed Heb 2:14.

Yes self indulgence is a fleshly trait...many fasle doctrines have originated out of self indulgence.

The weight of evidence that Satan is not a real demonic beaing is somewhat overwhelming even more so the lack of evidence. The Bible speaks of such a beautiful truth and once it is understood, many are freed from the doctrines of devils 1 Tim 4:1 (KJV). They can release the shackles of falsehood and move forwards to fight the good fight 1 Tim 6:12 & 2 Tim 4:7 like our beloved Paul.

History proves the teaching of devils has its roots in Greek philosophy and Gnostic mysteries, which were also taken on by some leaders in the early churches. There was (and still is) something appealing about the mysterious. A number of Christians here love to speak about the mysterious devils and demons which attack people in the streets like roaring lions. They speak of great visual wars in heaven, where a red dragon battles with the arch angel Michael. Since many of the converts were of this persuasion before conversion, they would perhaps bring these strange ideas into church doctrines, other than the Truth. Another element which led to the adulteration of the Truth was the teaching of the Judaizers (Acts 15:1; Gal 5:1-3; Rev 2:9). Catholicism today is very much in the same spirit as Judaism (law & tradition based), which was expressly warned against by Paul (Gal 1:6-9; 1 Ti 1:4-7). On one occasion Paul had spoken personally to the elders of Ephesus, he told them "Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them" (Acts 20:30).

The doctrine of demonic beings is one such perversion.

Many may wonder why Alethos has chosen this "false doctrine" of many to warn Christians. Well the doctrine of devils and demons is one which removes most of our responsibility to God and Jesus Christ. It also misleads many about their true nature being flesh and blood and the source of sin. This teaching takes away from the work of Jesus Christ in him overcoming the devil through his death Heb 2:14. This false doctrine also misleads people about certain events which will take place at the time of the end. Many scriptures a misinterpreted and therefore their wisdom is lost to supernatural fairy tales, styled Gnostic mysteries.

When truth emerges amidst the confusion of angels sinning and falling and demons provoking to sin, doors open to many bible passages which have been lost for generations. Over the past 17 years I have found many of the reforming churches once believed the personification for sin and its works were attributed to devil and satan (false accuser & adversary).

“Maybe” through education and teaching and with prayer many eyes can be opened and ears unlocked to see the beginning of truth.

Alethos - 2 John 1:2

Thankful 1 · Apr 10, 2011

Truth said:
Yes self indulgence is a felshly trait...many fasle doctrines out of self indulgence.

The weight of evidence that Satan is not a real demonic beaing is somewhat overwhelming even more so the lack of evidence. The Bible speaks of such a beautiful truth and once it is understood, many are freed from the doctrines of devils 1 Tim 4:1 (KJV). They can release the shackles of falsehood and move forwards to fight the good fight 1 Tim 6:12 & 2 Tim 4:7 like our beloved Paul.

History proves the teaching of devils has its roots in Greek philosophy and Gnostic mysteries, which were also taken on by some leaders in the early churches. There was (and still is) something appealing about the mysterious. A number of Christians here love to speak about the mysterious devils and demons which attack people in the streets like roaring lions. They speak of great visual wars in heaven, where a red dragon battles with the arch angel Michael. Since many of the converts were of this persuasion before conversion, they would perhaps bring these strange ideas into church doctrines, other than the Truth. Another element which led to the adulteration of the Truth was the teaching of the Judaizers (Acts 15:1; Gal 5:1-3; Rev 2:9). Catholicism today is very much in the same spirit as Judaism (law & tradition based), which was expressly warned against by Paul (Gal 1:6-9; 1 Ti 1:4-7). On one occasion Paul had spoken personally to the elders of Ephesus, he told them "Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them" (Acts 20:30).

The doctrine of demonic beings is one such perversion.

Many may wonder why Alethos has chosen this "false doctrine" of many to warn Christians. Well the doctrine of devils and demons is one which removes most of our responsibility to God and Jesus Christ. It also misleads many about their true nature being flesh and blood and the source of sin. This teaching takes away from the work of Jesus Christ in him overcoming the devil through his death Heb 2:14. This false doctrine also misleads people about certain events which will take place at the time of the end. Many scriptures a misinterpreted and therefore their wisdom is lost to supernatural fairy tales, styled Gnostic mysteries.

When truth emerges amidst the confusion of angels sinning and falling and demons provoking to sin, doors open to many bible passages which have been lost for generations. Over the past 17 years I have found many of the reforming churches once believed the personification for sin and its works were attributed to devil and satan (false accuser & adversary).

“Maybe” through education and teaching and with prayer many eyes can be opened and ears unlocked to see the beginning of truth.

Alethos - 2 John 1:2

(1 Peter 5: 8 –9) “Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.”

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

Thankful 1

I should add Cain's problem all began with one small wrong act that Cain was very able to put right. Cain offered a sacrifice of vegetables instead of the sacrifice of an animal and then became jealous that Abel's sacrifice was favoured by God while his own sacrifice wasn't. It was here that the LORD intervened and warned Cain what would happen if he did not put his actions right. God said, 'Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at the door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.'

Like Peters advice to the brotherhood regarding fleshly impulses Peter understood all too well that "Cain's decision was to stay bitter. So Cain in trying to ease his bitterness and fix the problem, made an even bigger one by killing his brother.

Now Cain had two problems. He had offered an unacceptable sacrifice and not put it right, and had murdered his brother.

"When the LORD confronted Cain about the death of Abel, he again tried to cover it up by lying.

1. Disobeyed
2. Killed
3. Lied

Therefore all traits like these are fleshly and yes they can overtake us like a raging lion devouring Able and anyone that gets in their way..

"If Cain had just taken God's advice and put the first problem right, the rest of his sins would never have happened. Sin desires to have all of us, but we must master it. Let us not fall into the same trap as Cain and add sin to sin until it masters us"

Alethos

ps. no mention of the devil or satan during this incident?

Thankful 1 · Apr 10, 2011

Truth said:
You quote "devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour".

Do you know where Peters mind is here? Well God gave the same advice to Cain and Peter knew God's wonderful council.

God speaking...

If you (Cain) do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door (Lion). Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."

In other words if you continue to be fleshly minded sin is crouching at the door ready to attack and rob you of salvation. The flesh (Lion) desire to have you but you Thankful 1 must rule over it!

I hope you understand the lesson?

Because many did not, like Cain "And it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him"

Do you think devil made him do it?

If you do? you have been greatly deceived.

Alethos

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

Only Satan would want people not to believe he exists. The Mafia for years tried to make people believe it did not exist. What is there to fight if it does not exist?

People twist scripture to have it mean anything they wish it to mean, and Satan has people even twist the Word so as to deny that he exists. I feel sorry for those people.

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

The Devil is Sin in the Flesh

The key verse is understanding Hebrews 2:14

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil"

If the devil is a supposed fallen wicked angel then . . .

Taking on flesh and blood is a strange way to battle a powerful immortal angel.

"He took not on him the nature of angels" (v.16).

Why not? Wouldnt angel nature be stronger? Why be made of flesh and blood to destroy the devil?

Doesn't this verse say that the devil is now dead not actively out deceiving souls?

No matter how you try your understanding will never provide an answer to Heb 2:14 1 John 3:8 2 Peter 2:4

FACT: Jesus took on our human nature to overcome the devil.

FACT: Jesus destroyed him (flesh and blood) that has the power of death.

FACT : The devil has the power of death and is dead to Jesus Christ.

FACT: Equating Hebrews 2:14 with other scriptures we find that “what” Christ did in his death by destroying the devil is an analogy of the destruction of sin.

(Heb. 9:26) "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

(1 Cor. 15:3) "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"

(Isa. 53:5) "But he (Jesus) was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities (sins): the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

(1 Pet. 2:24) "Who (Jesus) his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

(1 John 3:5) "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." COMPARE (1 John 3:8) "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

FACT: Sin in the flesh is the principle! (Rom 8:3) "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

There are other scriptures showing that the devil, which has the power of death, is actually sin.

(Rom. 5:12) "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

(Rom. 5:21) "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

(Rom. 6:23) "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

(1 Cor. 15:21) "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead."

(1 Cor. 15:56) "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law."

FACT: Sin comes from within a person and can only be equated to the devil by seeing that it is man's nature or his flesh. Q. Who caused sin? A. Man.

(James 1:15) "Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." See also James 4:1

(Mark 7:15-23) "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man... (23) All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

(Jer. 17:9) "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

(Eccl. 9:3) "This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead."

You should read the book of Romans because it is largely concerned with sin, its origin, and how Christ's death can save man, yet there no mention of the devil and only once is the word satan used.

The real battle is between the flesh and spirit. Two principles which are at enmity in ourselves.

(Rom. 7:18-21) "another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind".

(Rom. 8:6-7) "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

(1 John 2:16) "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

(Gal. 5:17) "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

FACT: The Devil are Those Who Manifest Flesh

FACT: Sin, as well as the devil, are personified in the Bible.

(John 8:34) "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." i.e a devil

(Romans 5:21) "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

(Romans 6:16) "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

FACT: The serpent in Genesis becomes representative of the false accuser because "thou shalt not surely die" was the first lie in the Bible. All those who manifest flesh and sin are termed the "seed of the serpent" or "of the devil".

(Gen. 3:15) "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

The Pharisees - (Mat. 23:33) "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers (=seed of the serpent), how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

(John 8:44) "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

(1 John 3:8) "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

FACT: There are Groups of people who sin termed the devil or satan.

The Roman power - (Rev. 2:10) "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Pergamos a seat of Roman power - (Rev. 2:13) "I know thy works and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth." - not hell?

The world vs. Christ's kingdom - (Rev. 20:2) "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

Christ retrains sin in the 1000 year reign where Christs Kingdom will have dominion over the Kingdom of the world.

And what do you know the Bible speaks of such a time when sin is held captive and the Kingdom begins.

(Rev. 11:15) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever...

Amen

Alethos

Thankful 1 · Apr 10, 2011

Truth said:
The Devil is Sin in the Flesh

The key verse is understanding Hebrews 2:14

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil"

If the devil is a supposed fallen wicked angel then . . .

Taking on flesh and blood is a strange way to battle a powerful immortal angel.

"He took not on him the nature of angels" (v.16).

Why not? Wouldnt angel nature be stronger? Why be made of flesh and blood to destroy the devil?

Doesn't this verse say that the devil is now dead not actively out deceiving souls?

No matter how you try your understanding will never provide an answer to Heb 2:14 1 John 3:8 2 Peter 2:4

FACT: Jesus took on our human nature to overcome the devil.

FACT: Jesus destroyed him (flesh and blood) that has the power of death.

FACT : The devil has the power of death and is dead to Jesus Christ.

FACT: Equating Hebrews 2:14 with other scriptures we find that “what” Christ did in his death by destroying the devil is an analogy of the destruction of sin.

(Heb. 9:26) "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

(1 Cor. 15:3) "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"

(Isa. 53:5) "But he (Jesus) was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities (sins): the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

(1 Pet. 2:24) "Who (Jesus) his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

(1 John 3:5) "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." COMPARE (1 John 3:8) "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

FACT: Sin in the flesh is the principle! (Rom 8:3) "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

There are other scriptures showing that the devil, which has the power of death, is actually sin.

(Rom. 5:12) "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

(Rom. 5:21) "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

(Rom. 6:23) "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

(1 Cor. 15:21) "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead."

(1 Cor. 15:56) "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law."

FACT: Sin comes from within a person and can only be equated to the devil by seeing that it is man's nature or his flesh. Q. Who caused sin? A. Man.

(James 1:15) "Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." See also James 4:1

(Mark 7:15-23) "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man... (23) All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

(Jer. 17:9) "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

(Eccl. 9:3) "This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead."

You should read the book of Romans because it is largely concerned with sin, its origin, and how Christ's death can save man, yet there no mention of the devil and only once is the word satan used.

The real battle is between the flesh and spirit. Two principles which are at enmity in ourselves.

(Rom. 7:18-21) "another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind".

(Rom. 8:6-7) "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

(1 John 2:16) "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."

(Gal. 5:17) "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

FACT: The Devil are Those Who Manifest Flesh

FACT: Sin, as well as the devil, are personified in the Bible.

(John 8:34) "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." i.e a devil

(Romans 5:21) "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

(Romans 6:16) "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

FACT: The serpent in Genesis becomes representative of the false accuser because "thou shalt not surely die" was the first lie in the Bible. All those who manifest flesh and sin are termed the "seed of the serpent" or "of the devil".

(Gen. 3:15) "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

The Pharisees - (Mat. 23:33) "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers (=seed of the serpent), how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

(John 8:44) "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

(1 John 3:8) "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

FACT: There are Groups of people who sin termed the devil or satan.

The Roman power - (Rev. 2:10) "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Pergamos a seat of Roman power - (Rev. 2:13) "I know thy works and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth." - not hell?

The world vs. Christ's kingdom - (Rev. 20:2) "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

Christ retrains sin in the 1000 year reign where Christs Kingdom will have dominion over the Kingdom of the world.

And what do you know the Bible speaks of such a time when sin is held captive and the Kingdom begins.

(Rev. 11:15) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever...

Amen

Alethos

Only Satan would benefit from people not believing he exists. Satan will twists scripture to no ends to accomplish that end.

Jesus is Lord and God, Satan beware!

rockytopva · Apr 10, 2011

I have heard that the flesh and the devil are so akin that it is hard to discern between the two.

M = E / C2

E = Energy, motivation, warmth, love.
C2 = Faith, hope, charity

But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not - James 3:14

The flesh is a dimmed form of energy and light... However what a bad blend of the two! Especially when the warmth cools and the light gets distorted into something else. If that isn't bad enough the flesh will seek to justify its distortion by seeking its own righteousness! People in the flesh will debate with you thinking that they are justified in such a state.

These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. - 2 Peter 2:17

In which I must pray with St Augustine... "O Holy Spirit, descend plentifully into my heart. Enlighten the dark corners of this neglected dwelling and scatter there Thy cheerful beams!"

Thankful 1 · Apr 10, 2011

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

(1 Peter 5: 8 –9) “Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.”

WhiteKnuckle · Apr 10, 2011

The apostles drove out demons even after Jesus was resurected. What were they driving out?

Jesus was perfect and sinless. There was no sin found in Him. Jesus was perfect in flesh, mind and spirit. He went to the wilderness to be tempted. Who was it that told Jesus, "All this I will give you, if you bow down to me." ?

Those without Christ are considered "dead". Yet they breathe, walk, talk, see, eat, procreate, and do work.

If our battle isn't against the flesh, but against the powers and pricipalities of this world,,,,, What is the powers and pricipalities?

What about the serpent in the Garden of Eden? Who was that? Surely a mere snake/lizard would give a flip if Eve tasted the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

I just read a few things that brought to mind a different perspective.

One was on Gotquestions.org.

This one relates to the "angels who didn't keep their positions of authority and left their abode", as the angels who were the "sons of God who mated with daughters of men", at this these weren't fallen angels, but angels who left heaven to breed with women. They were cast into hell.

The others were cast down to earth, as the Angel said, "Woah to you inhabitants of the earth, for the devil has come down to you!". Satan was never said in the bible to be cast to hell, He was cast to earth.

The only mention in the NT of Satan or the Devil that leads that he is destroyed, is when Jesus died on the cross and was resurected. The power of the devil had been broken and destroyed. Leaving him powerless over believers in Jesus. Even my Strongs says the devil is Satan, and says false accuser.

Say, we do consider the flesh/man to be the devil. The Bible says the devil doesn't rest day or night, he's like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. When we lay down at night, our flesh rests and replenishes itself. Our mind rests, our spirit rests. We sleep. Even though our organs work they aren't working near as hard as they do when we're awake. Our breathing is slower and deeper, our heart rate is decreased, and most other organs are on a slower pace and are rejuvinated. So, that leaves out that explaination of the devil.

I've noticed a few things in the Bible.
Sometimes it speaks of someone as in a person being a devil, sometimes it speaks of the devil as in Satan. It's pretty clear on those points. Manythings in the Bible are written as a common conversation using words in certain places that have different meanings in the context. Such as calling someone a devil, and using devil as a way to describe Satan.

So, the definition of devil, would not only be Satan, but a false accuser, slanderer or just a down right bad character.

Kind of like this too,,, "You old dog!" "You dirty rat!" Would I be speaking of a literal dog or a literal rat? Or would it be some quality that these creatures share with the person I'm speaking of?

Seems to me we get caught up in semantics alot. So, while we're lawyering and trying to figure semantics across several different languages, it's very hard to understand.

But, if we realize the ways of human conversation, they haven't changed much in thousands of years. Only the languages. It's easy to imagine people using figurative speech much the same back then as we do today.

My conclusion is this,

Satan and his angels were cast down to earth. At another time, other angels sinned in a different manner and were chained in hell waiting Judgement. Maybe to keep the free from sinning more because some would repent, as is mention Jesus ministered to the spirits in hell and 8 of which were saved.

Satan and demons are roaming and seeking destruction.

The power of Satan has been broken by Jesus on the cross, and the keys to death and hell were taken from him. Jesus now holds the keys to death and hell. All those who are in Christ are not subject to the rulings and "powers" of the devil and his followers, be them man or spirit.

Those in Christ can't be possesed, harmed, coaxed, or influenced beyond our control or what God has allowed for His own reasons for our strengthening and testing.

Even if so, if the Devil is in chains of darkness, that doesn't mean locked up. They are in everlasting darkness, where we can explain darkness as evil as the Bible has the habit of speaking the same.

This makes sense to me. Seems that if we claimed that Satan and his angels are locked in hell and chained up in dungeons that would make the rest of the Bible contradicting and leaves much to be explained.

However, a concession that I do make is that we as humans need no devil to influence us to do evil. It's not fair to give him that much credit. Our very nature is destructive through and through. It is abundantly clear that the devil is a being of spirit and influences who he can.

timf · Apr 10, 2011

The Bible seems to think that there is a devil. He is recorded to ask phony questions to create doubt and to draw us into acting in our flesh;

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

When we rely on our own understanding, we act in the flesh and cut ourselves off from the wisdom of God. What a difference it would have made if Eve had responded that she didn't know the answer and suggest that they ask God.

Gen 3:2-3 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Satan seeks to draw us into our flesh so that we are cut off from God and vulnerable to his deceptions.

Gen 3:4-5 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Even though for now Satan is the ruler of this present age, he can only do what God allows. Satan does not have the authority to command us to march to our own destruction. He can only create an environment were we are drawn to our own destruction by our own choices. He is clever and uses his understanding of our flesh to create a world where God seems irrelevant, unscientific, and abstracted to such an extent that at best He seems old fashioned. Satan then has introduced technology to create a bubble of temporary prosperity and comfort where God seems unnecessary, he can institutionalize immorality, speed up the pace of life, and encourage people to abandon their families and form collectives and societies where they are more easily manipulated en mass (to leverage his influence).

For Christians, the example of the Pharisees and the Galatians serve to show us how we can be blinded by the flesh and drawn into religious "cul-de-sacs" by Satan and why Jesus warned us of this "leaven".

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

error

Alethos · Apr 10, 2011

WhiteKnuckle (Alethos comments in bold)

The apostles drove out demons even after Jesus was resurrected. What were they driving out?

Commonly known today as many varying illnesses. The Greek believed in bad spirits and back then they didn’t have the names for illnesses like we do today. Do you believe someone who dies of cancer or has epilepsy is demon possessed?

I doubt it!

Jesus was perfect and sinless. There was no sin found in Him. Jesus was perfect in flesh, mind and spirit. He went to the wilderness to be tempted. Who was it that told Jesus, "All this I will give you, if you bow down to me."

Jesus was tempted in all points as we are yet without sin. This means his flesh was not perfect although he perfected obeyed his Father. The flesh had within it the law of death, inherited by Adam. If Jesus lived to be an old man he would have died naturally. Howver, you may be implying his life was perfect but in no way was his flesh perfect, it was dying! And he nailed his flesh to the cross because it useless to the Father, if there was any good in flesh God would have found a way to save it. Instead God killed it and His Son along with it. (Very humbling when understood God offered his son as a living sacrifice)

Those without Christ are considered "dead". Yet they breathe, walk, talk, see, eat, procreate, and do work.

True

If our battle isn't against the flesh, but against the powers and principalities of this world,,,,, What is the powers and principalities?

Extremely wrong! 100 verses would prove this to be incorrect. Powers and principalities are the ruling bodies who think they control the world. Jesus is returning to cast down the governments of this world, it’s his final work!

What about the serpent in the Garden of Eden? Who was that? Surely a mere snake/lizard would give a flip if Eve tasted the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Was Adam a mere man? Yes

Was Eve a mere woman? Yes

Was the serpent a mere serpent? Yes

See the logic, even my 4 year old son understands this teaching!

How would God place in the garden an alternative way of thinking? A carnal animal mind is what was needed to test his children and their loyalty. READ Roman 8:1-17 and get back to me!!!

I just read a few things that brought to mind a different perspective.

One was on Gotquestions.org.

This one relates to the "angels who didn't keep their positions of authority and left their abode", as the angels who were the "sons of God who mated with daughters of men", at this these weren't fallen angels, but angels who left heaven to breed with women. They were cast into hell.

Do you believe angels can sin?

Please provide verses to support your understanding?

The others were cast down to earth, as the Angel said, "Woah to you inhabitants of the earth, for the devil has come down to you!". Satan was never said in the bible to be cast to hell, He was cast to earth.

What verse are you quoting here?

The only mention in the NT of Satan or the Devil that leads that he is destroyed, is when Jesus died on the cross and was resurected. The power of the devil had been broken and destroyed. Leaving him powerless over believers in Jesus. Even my Strongs says the devil is Satan, and says false accuser.

Yes, getting closer to the truth...the next question from Heb 2:14 is what had the power of death and what is the devil mentioned? And how did he die through the death of Jesus?

Say, we do consider the flesh/man to be the devil. The Bible says the devil doesn't rest day or night, he's like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. When we lay down at night, our flesh rests and replenishes itself. Our mind rests, our spirit rests. We sleep. Even though our organs work they aren't working near as hard as they do when we're awake. Our breathing is slower and deeper, our heart rate is decreased, and most other organs are on a slower pace and are rejuvenated. So, that leaves out that explanation of the devil.

The Flesh worldwide is practicing its lusts every day and night. Sin is constant in the Earth.

I've noticed a few things in the Bible.
Sometimes it speaks of someone as in a person being a devil, sometimes it speaks of the devil as in Satan. It's pretty clear on those points.

TRUE!

Manythings in the Bible are written as a common conversation using words in certain places that have different meanings in the context. Such as calling someone a devil, and using devil as a way to describe Satan.

TRUE!

So, the definition of devil, would not only be Satan, but a false accuser, slanderer or just a down right bad character.

TRUE!

Kind of like this too,,, "You old dog!" "You dirty rat!" Would I be speaking of a literal dog or a literal rat? Or would it be some quality that these creatures share with the person I'm speaking of?

VERY TRUE...no approach the scriptures armed with this understanding the lessons will jump off the pages.

Seems to me we get caught up in semantics alot. So, while we're lawyering and trying to figure semantics across several different languages, it's very hard to understand.

But, if we realize the ways of human conversation, they haven't changed much in thousands of years. Only the languages. It's easy to imagine people using figurative speech much the same back then as we do today.

My conclusion is this,

Satan and his angels were cast down to earth. At another time, other angels sinned in a different manner and were chained in hell waiting Judgment. Maybe to keep the free from sinning more because some would repent, as is mention Jesus ministered to the spirits in hell and 8 of which were saved.

Oh dear... you off into unfounded mysteries once again having come to the precipice and seeing afar off now you are clouded back in falsehood.

Satan and demons are roaming and seeking destruction.

If you mean flesh and its works you would be correct!

The power of Satan has been broken by Jesus on the cross,

How?

and the keys to death and hell were taken from him. Jesus now holds the keys to death and hell

Death and Hell are one in the same = GRAVE

All those who are in Christ are not subject to the rulings and "powers" of the devil and his followers, be them man or spirit.

Those in Christ can't be possessed, harmed, coaxed, or influenced beyond our control or what God has allowed for His own reasons for our strengthening and testing.

Everyone whether heathen of godly suffers from the same flesh. That’s why God can say he so loved the whole world that he gave his only begotten son...as John the Baptist said “all flesh is grass” There’s not one kind of flesh and then another.

Roman 6:23 Heb 2:14 1 John 3:8 1 Peter 1:24 Isaiah 40:6 – Isaiah 40 is the prophecy of John the Baptist preparing the way for Christ who is called the Son of Man (flesh)

Even if so, if the Devil is in chains of darkness, that doesn't mean locked up. They are in everlasting darkness, where we can explain darkness as evil as the Bible has the habit of speaking the same.

How dark it is in the grave?

This makes sense to me. Seems that if we claimed that Satan and his angels are locked in hell and chained up in dungeons that would make the rest of the Bible contradicting and leaves much to be explained.

However, a concession that I do make is that we as humans need no devil to influence us to do evil. It's not fair to give him that much credit.

You are almost there, a little more searching and testing the scriptures “proving all things” and you will see the fairy tales of demons and supernatural fallen angels is myth!

Our very nature is destructive through and through. It is abundantly clear that the devil is a being of spirit and influences who he can.

In conclusion, what I do like about your reasoning is some honest questions have been asked by yourself. However few here have closed their ears so that nothing can penetrate, they are deaf and almost blind. The same happened to the Pharisees when Jesus was teaching them...they reasoning among themselves i.e. God wasn’t involved in their thinking!

Our Father loves it when His children ask as many questions as possible, the more the merrier, I have found answers to all my questions.

I will leave you with a question.

If you desire eternal life and your hope is one of being rewarded in the Kingdom age and you believe in angels who can sin, why do you look forward to immortality with the potential to sin?

Doesn’t make sense, does it? Why would God reward you with a nature which is still capable of sinning? And Gods divine law states the wages of sin is death? Therefore angels is the sin MUST die!

Otherwise the God you worship is unjust and does not treat His children with equity. Regardless how you look at this the conclusion is always the same.

Angel cannot sin! And therefore you have no supernatural being.

Alethos

Ps God bless your searching

WhiteKnuckle · Apr 11, 2011

In our last discussion on Hell....... We noted death and SIN are to be cast into the lake of fire.

There will be no eternal chance of sinning. There will be no sin.

For the sake of argument, do we atleast agree that Satan and his followers sinned and were cast out of heaven? (where ever they are doesn't matter for this part of the discussion)

Alethos · Apr 11, 2011

WhiteKnuckle said:
In our last discussion on Hell....... We noted death and SIN are to be cast into the lake of fire.

There will be no eternal chance of sinning. There will be no sin.

For the sake of argument, do we atleast agree that Satan and his followers sinned and were cast out of heaven? (where ever they are doesn't matter for this part of the discussion)

WhiteKnuckle, are you able to read my recent post on the nature of Jesus Christ?

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13608-why-woul-a-loving-god-create-such-a-hateful-place/page__pid__107706__st__210#entry107706

Together we need to define satan. The above topic is almost exhaustive in doing so.

I would value your input.

Alethos

Duckybill · Apr 12, 2011

Truth said:
Together we need to define satan.

Try this for starters:

Revelation 12:9 (NKJV)
[sup]9 [/sup]So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

jiggyfly · Apr 12, 2011

For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against those mighty powers of darkness who rule this world, and against wicked spirits in the heavenly realms. Ephesians 6:12

The Flesh & The Spirit

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