Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Kermos · Oct 1, 2021

An unsaved person contains a righteous element within the heart which enables the unsaved person to choose Jesus unto being saved from the wrath of God according to free-willian philosophy.

"I did not come to call the righteous" (Mark 2:17) says Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28).

Free-willians dictate that unconverted man is righteous enough, even good enough, to choose God, but God "did not come to call the righteous" (Mark 2:17), so free-willians are not called according to their own philosophy.

"If you then, being evil" (Matthew 7:11), says Lord Jesus, to the Apostles.

Free-willians dictate that unconverted man is righteous enough, even good enough, to choose God, but God said to His Apostles, you "being evil" (Matthew 7:11), so free-willians are good enough to choose Jesus, according to their own philosophy, while the Apostles could not choose Jesus since Jesus says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16).

"No one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18) says Lord Jesus.

Free-willians dictate that unconverted man is righteous enough, even good enough, to choose God, but the Word of God says "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), so free-willians exalt themselves into being a god, even in their unconverted flesh state before they choose Jesus, according to their own philosophy.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3) says Lord Jesus.
Free-willians dictate that unconverted man is righteous enough, even good enough, to choose King Jesus, but the Son of God says that unconverted man "cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3), so free-willians, who cannot even perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God, fail to choose King Jesus (they cannot choose that which they do not perceive) according to their own philosophy.

Free-willians preach that Adam had a free-will, but no free-will is written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Abaxvahl · Oct 1, 2021

Kermos said:
You convey that a convert has a "free will" to choose to love Jesus, that is a convert autonomously "wills" choosing to do a good work apart from God, yet the Apostle Paul wrote that a convert's will and convert's work is the work of God inside of converts with "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

A convert cannot choose to love Jesus because the Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Never said this, but you can continue attacking fabrications created by your own impure words.

Kermos · Oct 1, 2021

Abaxvahl said:
Never said this, but you can continue attacking fabrications created by your own impure words.

You can lie to claim you didn't, but the proof is in your writings as evidenced in this recent post series that God had me make to you (starting with post #974).

Since you so rudely edited out some points, here is a valid point:

It is evident from your writings that you claim "personal agency" to do good works such as (1) you choosing to love others and (2) you choosing to love the Lord.

The Apostle Paul wrote that person's will and person's work is the work of God in persons with "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

You fabricate the opposite of the Apostle Paul.

YOU ARE THE ONE THAT CLAIMED "PERSONAL AGENCY", AS DEMONSTRATED IN THE AFOREMENTIONED POST SERIES.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Abaxvahl · Oct 1, 2021

Kermos said:
You can lie to claim you didn't, but the proof is in your writings as evidenced in this recent post series that God had me make to you (starting with post #974).

Since you so rudely edited out some points

What did I edit out? You simply are incapable of reading clearly and misunderstood my points because of your ignorance of various terms and definitions that I was using, or the order of theology I laid out. I could lay it out again for you but your inability to comprehend basic English would once again overtake your mind and cause you to misinterpret what I said, and then claim that I am doing evil. It would be beneath my dignity to expound these things to you.

"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

I'll follow the command of the Lord Jesus Christ in this matter.

Kermos · Oct 1, 2021

Abaxvahl said:
What did I edit out?

I literally copied and pasted a snippet of that which you edited out, and you blindly ask me what you edited out.

Abaxvahl said:
You simply are incapable of reading clearly and misunderstood my points because of your ignorance of various terms and definitions that I was using, or the order of theology I laid out. I could lay it out again for you but your inability to comprehend basic English would once again overtake your mind and cause you to misinterpret what I said, and then claim that I am doing evil. It would be beneath my dignity to expound these things to you.

You claim to have free-will ability to do commands of Jesus and choose to love Jesus, and the proof is in your writings as evidenced in this recent post series that God had me make to you (starting with post #974).

Lord Jesus says "You shall love the Lord your God" (Matthew 22:37), so there is a command of Jesus.

You write you don't then you write you do. See that you are profoundly confused, yet "God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Abaxvahl said:
"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

The Word of God (recorded in Matthew 7:6) is precisely the reason I do not tell you that God loves you.

Abaxvahl said:
I'll follow the command of the Lord Jesus Christ in this matter.

You persist in preaching the "fruit of Abaxvahl" (your free-will, your "personal agency") ability to choose to do what Jesus says right there in your post, even after the Truth (John 14:6) has been proclaimed to you. Here is the Truth.

"Fruit of the Spirit", including love (Galatians 5:22), in converts is the blessedly glorious act of God, but you self-willedly steal God's "fruit of the Spirit" to glorify yourself in your "fruit of Abaxvahl" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your impure free-willian philosophy has man choosing Jesus at some level which places you in rejection of the Word of God which is an eternally destructive place to be (John 12:48) apart from receiving the pure Word of God (John 15:5, 1 Peter 2:2).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God (John 20:28), did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

BARNEY BRIGHT · Oct 1, 2021

Kermos said:
Lord Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Jesus says I AM, and He did not say "I was created".

So, one week before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM ring true.

And, two weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM resound true.

And, three weeks before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM are true.

And, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created Jesus' words of I AM trumpet true.

No matter how many weeks going back in time before Abraham was born Jesus' words of I AM remain absolutely true; therefore, Jesus declares Himself God with reference to I AM (Exodus 3:14).

Going back in time, Jesus is always I AM, never created, He is always I AM.

Going back in time, anytime in all eternity because Jesus says "before Abraham" with no exceptions, Jesus Being.

Going back in time, Jesus Being.

Jesus is I AM, that is God, so His words ring true for you that "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24).

This post ties with the prior post God had me make to you about "I"/"Ego" and "am"/"eimi" in both Exodus 3:14 and John 8:58.

The Apostle Thomas testified that Lord Jesus Christ is God when he said "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

Again, Lord Jesus is I AM (John 8:58, Exodus 3:14), that is God (John 20:28), so His words ring true for you that "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

First of all, I have continued to say that I'm going to always believe Jesus Christ. I've always known what Thomas said at John 20:28 but unlike you and others who reason as you do, I don't believe that Thomas was saying Jesus was God when he said, "my lord and my God," why? Because before Jesus met with Thomas after Jesus resurrection, at John 20:17, Jesus told Mary Magdalene, to Go to his Apostles and tell them that he was going to his Father and their Father and to his God and their God. So when Thomas said at John 20:28, "my lord and my God" Thomas knew that the Father and God of Jesus was the God of creation and his Father and God.

As for the Greek expression, "egoimi" is concerned, this expression "egoimi just by itself without any introductory material ahead of it, does mean, "I AM" but this isn't how the expression egoimi is grammatically structured in John 8:58. This expression egoimi does have introductory material ahead of it so it should be translated differently. The king James Bible at the scriptures John 20:24,28 translate the expression egoimi as, "I am he" why it doesn't translate it that way at John 8:58 I don't understand since they all are grammatically structured the same.

We must remember, also, that when Jesus spoke to those Jews, he spoke to them in the Hebrew of his day, not in Greek. So how Jesus said John 8:58 to the Jews is therefore presented to us in the modern translations by Hebrew scholars who translated the Greek into the Bible Hebrew, as follows: Dr. Franz Delitzsch: “Before Abraham was, I have been.” Isaac Salkinson and David Ginsburg: “I have been when there had as yet been no Abraham.” In both of these Hebrew translations the translators use for the expression “I have been” two Hebrew words, both a pronoun and a verb, namely, aní hayíthi; they do not use the one hebrew word, "Ehyéh" which is the Hebrew word used at Exodus 3:14.
So they do not make out that at John 8:58 Jesus was trying to imitate Jehovah God and give us the impression that he himself was Jehovah, the I AM.

Also when writing John 8:58, the apostle was not quoting from the Greek Septuagint Version of the scriptures. If you compare the greek scripture at John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14 in the Greek Septuagint, you will find that the Septuagint reading of Exodus 3:14 does not use the expression "Egó eimí" standing alone but instead the expression you find in the Septuagint is "egoimi ho On" for God’s name, when God says to Moses: “I AM ho On hath sent me unto you.” This expression ho Ōn, means “The Being,” or, “The One who is.” This fact is clearly presented to us in Bagster’s translation of the Greek Septuagint, at Exodus 3:14, which reads: “And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING [ho Ōn]; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING [ho Ōn] has sent me to you.” According to Charles Thomson’s translation of the Greek Septuagint, Exodus 3:14 reads: “God spoke to Moses saying, I am The I Am [ho Ōn]. Moreover he said, Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel, The I Am [ho Ōn] hath sent me to you.” Thus this comparison of the two Greek texts, that of the Septuagint and that of John 8:58, removes all basis for trinitarians to argue that Jesus, in John 8:58, was trying to fit Exodus 3:14 to himself, as if he was Jehovah God.

Ronald Nolette · Oct 1, 2021

Kermos said:
Jesus and the Apostles traveled by various forms of travel (Matthew 12:1, John 12:14), so a person traveling by car is a form of travel therefore it's scriptural.

Sometimes I listen to the voice of my wife and do what shew asks. does that mean I had no choice in the matter and there was no compulsion in the matter?

Kermos said:
Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

there is but you efuse because you do not see the word there. You see Adam listened to His wife and refuse to go further. Did he act at the sound of her voice? How did he act.

God gave Adam the right to name th eanimals and He did. He had free will to name them whatever He wished.

God gave Adam and Eve a choice to eat or not eatr the tree of knowledge. that shows free will. But you cannot accept it for some reason. I wonder what real agenda is hiding behind your pucker lips over this. It is more than the mere fact that a word is not there so He was not compelled to eat nor did he have free will to eat or not eat.

Have the last word, this conversation has gone on too far.

Abaxvahl · Oct 1, 2021

Kermos said:
I literally copied and pasted a snippet of that which you edited out, and you blindly ask me what you edited out.

You claim to have free-will ability to do commands of Jesus and choose to love Jesus

I do not claim that I have the ability to choose to love Jesus, and I edited out your content because it is worthless and not worth reading the lies of the father of lies. You misinterpreted my writings like you misinterpret the Scriptures. If you could read and instead of being obstinate about your interpretations of my writing and instead asked questions honestly you'd know, but clearly God did not make you do that so that He might manifest the varieties of worthlessness in the world to me. Then God made me condemn it so that His glory may be manifested, for it says in His Word which you do not know:

Let the faithful exult in glory;
let them sing for joy on their beds.
Let the extolling of God be in their throat,
and a double-edged sword in their hand,
to execute vengeance on the nations
and punishment on the peoples,
to bind their kings with chains
and their nobles with fetters of iron,
to execute on them the judgment that is decreed.
This will be honor for all his faithful ones;
Praise Yah.

May God be praised for giving me this. God bless.

Kermos · Oct 1, 2021

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
First of all, I have continued to say that I'm going to always believe Jesus Christ. I've always known what Thomas said at John 20:28 but unlike you and others who reason as you do, I don't believe that Thomas was saying Jesus was God when he said, "my lord and my God," why? Because before Jesus met with Thomas after Jesus resurrection, at John 20:17, Jesus told Mary Magdalene, to Go to his Apostles and tell them that he was going to his Father and their Father and to his God and their God. So when Thomas said at John 20:28, "my lord and my God" Thomas knew that the Father and God of Jesus was the God of creation and his Father and God.

As for the Greek expression, "egoimi" is concerned, this expression "egoimi just by itself without any introductory material ahead of it, does mean, "I AM" but this isn't how the expression egoimi is grammatically structured in John 8:58. This expression egoimi does have introductory material ahead of it so it should be translated differently. The king James Bible at the scriptures John 20:24,28 translate the expression egoimi as, "I am he" why it doesn't translate it that way at John 8:58 I don't understand since they all are grammatically structured the same.

We must remember, also, that when Jesus spoke to those Jews, he spoke to them in the Hebrew of his day, not in Greek. So how Jesus said John 8:58 to the Jews is therefore presented to us in the modern translations by Hebrew scholars who translated the Greek into the Bible Hebrew, as follows: Dr. Franz Delitzsch: “Before Abraham was, I have been.” Isaac Salkinson and David Ginsburg: “I have been when there had as yet been no Abraham.” In both of these Hebrew translations the translators use for the expression “I have been” two Hebrew words, both a pronoun and a verb, namely, aní hayíthi; they do not use the one hebrew word, "Ehyéh" which is the Hebrew word used at Exodus 3:14.
So they do not make out that at John 8:58 Jesus was trying to imitate Jehovah God and give us the impression that he himself was Jehovah, the I AM.

Also when writing John 8:58, the apostle was not quoting from the Greek Septuagint Version of the scriptures. If you compare the greek scripture at John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14 in the Greek Septuagint, you will find that the Septuagint reading of Exodus 3:14 does not use the expression "Egó eimí" standing alone but instead the expression you find in the Septuagint is "egoimi ho On" for God’s name, when God says to Moses: “I AM ho On hath sent me unto you.” This expression ho Ōn, means “The Being,” or, “The One who is.” This fact is clearly presented to us in Bagster’s translation of the Greek Septuagint, at Exodus 3:14, which reads: “And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING [ho Ōn]; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING [ho Ōn] has sent me to you.” According to Charles Thomson’s translation of the Greek Septuagint, Exodus 3:14 reads: “God spoke to Moses saying, I am The I Am [ho Ōn]. Moreover he said, Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel, The I Am [ho Ōn] hath sent me to you.” Thus this comparison of the two Greek texts, that of the Septuagint and that of John 8:58, removes all basis for trinitarians to argue that Jesus, in John 8:58, was trying to fit Exodus 3:14 to himself, as if he was Jehovah God.

You do not believe Jesus Christ because He says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

So, this means one week before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

And this means two years before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

Furthermore, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

No matter how far back in time before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" remain absolutely true; therefore, Jesus Christ declares Himself God with reference to "I AM the Being" (Exodus 3:14).

Going back in time, Jesus is always "I AM" never created, He is always "I AM".

In the Septuagint's Exodus 3:14, "ego eimi" exists in the Word of God.

Nonetheless, you do not believe Jesus Christ because at some point in the past you claim that Jesus Christ was not, but, on the other hand, Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so Jesus Christ exists always prior to Abraham's birth.

BARNEY BRIGHT · Oct 1, 2021

Kermos said:
You do not believe Jesus Christ because He says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

So, this means one week before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

And this means two years before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

Furthermore, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

No matter how far back in time before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" remain absolutely true; therefore, Jesus Christ declares Himself God with reference to "I AM the Being" (Exodus 3:14).

Going back in time, Jesus is always "I AM" never created, He is always "I AM".

In the Septuagint's Exodus 3:14, "ego eimi" exists in the Word of God.

Nonetheless, you do not believe Jesus Christ because at some point in the past you claim that Jesus Christ was not, but, on the other hand, Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so Jesus Christ exists always prior to Abraham's birth.

You have no clue what you're talking about no matter how convince you believe you do know what you're talking about. Jesus said at John 20:17 after his resurrection that he has a Father and God who is his apostles and disciples Father and God. You want to disbelieve Jesus when he says that, that's your choice.

Kermos · Oct 1, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
Sometimes I listen to the voice of my wife and do what shew asks. does that mean I had no choice in the matter and there was no compulsion in the matter?

I am not talking about whether you have a choice to listen to your wife.

I am talking about the Word of God LITERALLY declaring the CAUSE of Adam eating of the tree forbidden as food being that Adam LISTENED to the voice of his wife (Genesis 3:17).

Ronald Nolette said:
there is

It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

The Word of God says "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17).

You convey your heart's treasure of "because you chose to listen to the voice of your wife, and have free-willingly eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'"" (Ronald Nolette's word).

You repeatedly and wickedly add "free-willingly" and/or "chose" and/or "compelled" and/or "obey" to Genesis 3:17.

"Free-willingly" is not in Genesis 3:17.

"Chose" is not in Genesis 3:17.

"Compelled" is not in Genesis 3:17.

"Obey" is not in Genesis 3:17.

Ronald Nolette, your adding to His word proves who you are.

Ronald Nolette said:
but you efuse because you do not see the word there.

You adulterate the Word of God then you self-willedly (2 Peter 2:9-10) declare your resultant "word of Ronald Nolette" as pure yet the "word of Ronald Nolette" is impure; on the other hand, the exclusive Word of God is pure (1 Peter 2:2).

Ronald Nolette said:
You see Adam listened to His wife and refuse to go further.

I have no intention of participating in your folly of destruction, that is, your adding to the Word of God.

Ronald Nolette said:
Did he act at the sound of her voice? How did he act.

The scripture does not say that Adam acted at the sound of his wife's voice.

Genesis 3:17 is quoted above.

Adam's action is recorded in Genesis 3:6 as "and he ate".

Genesis 3:6 does not contain "free-willingly" nor "chose" nor "compelled" nor "obey".

Ronald Nolette said:
God gave Adam the right to name th eanimals and He did. He had free will to name them whatever He wished.

It is NOT written "and God placed one of the four footed creatures in front of Adam and God asked 'what name do you free-will choose for this creature cat, dog, or deer?'".

It is written "Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him" (Genesis 2:19-20).

Behold, Genesis 2:19-20 does not contain "free-will" nor "choose" nor "compelled" nor "obey".

Adam gave (assigned) names to the animals and the birds per the record in Genesis 2:19-20. The name that occurred to Adam is the name that Adam assigned to the creatures.

Not "choose" as per your heart's thoughts, but truly "gave" per scripture.

So, there is more of you wickedly adding to scripture.

Ronald Nolette said:
God gave Adam and Eve a choice to eat or not eatr the tree of knowledge. that shows free will.

Based on your writing there, the "word of Ronald Nolette" preaches "and the LORD God inquired of the man, asking 'Will you please choose to eat of the trees in the garden, and please will you choose whether to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die'"

See the pure Word of God "and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying 'Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying'" (Genesis 2:16-17).

See, Genesis 2:16-17 does not contain "free-will" nor "choose" nor "compelled" nor "obey".

See, Genesis 2:16-17 does not contain a question, so your "God gave Adam and Eve a choice to eat or not eatr the tree of knowledge" is the precepts of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

See, Genesis 2:16-17 does contain a command of God!

Ronald Nolette said:
But you cannot accept it for some reason.

Unsaved persons cannot help but to adulterate the Word of God into the Idol of their lust.

Ronald Nolette said:
I wonder what real agenda is

I tell you, the agenda is that some may be saved (1 Corinthians 10:33).

Ronald Nolette said:
hiding behind your pucker lips over this. It is more than the mere fact that a word is not there so He was not compelled to eat nor did he have free will to eat or not eat.

The Apostle Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree forbidden as food subjecting creation to futility for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" ... "until now" (Romans 8:20-22), as this post in this thread shows.

You convey your heart's treasure of "the creation was subjected to futility free willingly" (Ronald Nolette's contrivance).

You preach the opposite of Paul.

When you preach your heart's treasure, you do not receive the Truth.

I proclaim the same as the Apostle Paul.

Ronald Nolette said:
Have the last word, this conversation has gone on too far.

Jesus is the pure Word of God (John 1:14, 1 Peter 2:2).

When you inject your word into the Word of God, you self-willedly produce impure word (2 Peter 2:9-10).

@Ronald Nolette your unholy thoughts are exposed.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Oct 1, 2021

Abaxvahl said:
I do not claim that I have the ability to choose to love Jesus, and I edited out your content because it is worthless and not worth reading the lies of the father of lies. You misinterpreted my writings like you misinterpret the Scriptures. If you could read and instead of being obstinate about your interpretations of my writing and instead asked questions honestly you'd know, but clearly God did not make you do that so that He might manifest the varieties of worthlessness in the world to me. Then God made me condemn it so that His glory may be manifested, for it says in His Word which you do not know:

Let the faithful exult in glory;
let them sing for joy on their beds.
Let the extolling of God be in their throat,
and a double-edged sword in their hand,
to execute vengeance on the nations
and punishment on the peoples,
to bind their kings with chains
and their nobles with fetters of iron,
to execute on them the judgment that is decreed.
This will be honor for all his faithful ones;
Praise Yah.

May God be praised for giving me this. God bless.

You write you don't then you write you do. See that you are profoundly confused, yet "God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

You claim to have free-will ability to choose to love Jesus, and the proof is in your writings as evidenced in this recent post series that God had me make to you (starting with post #974).

You claim Adam was imparted free-will, but the Word of God does not declare that Adam was imparted free-will; therefore, you add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

This shows who you are.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Oct 1, 2021

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
You have no clue what you're talking about no matter how convince you believe you do know what you're talking about. Jesus said at John 20:17 after his resurrection that he has a Father and God who is his apostles and disciples Father and God. You want to disbelieve Jesus when he says that, that's your choice.

Jesus Christ is truly man (Luke 1:26-33), and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28).

In Lord Jesus Christ's capacity as truly man, as the Son of Man, He says "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God" (John 20:17).

The King speaks thus for He is the example to us born of God (John 13:15), so we of the Assembly of God call God Father, and we proclaim that Jesus Christ says "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30).

The preacher of the doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1) preaches that Jesus Christ is not God as the Apostle Thomas testified when he said "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

God reveals the Truth (John 14:6) to me, and I proclaim the Truth to you.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Oct 1, 2021

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
You have no clue what you're talking about no matter how convince you believe you do know what you're talking about. Jesus said at John 20:17 after his resurrection that he has a Father and God who is his apostles and disciples Father and God. You want to disbelieve Jesus when he says that, that's your choice.

With all that being said to you in the previous post that God had me make to you, I want to focus on the fact that, despite your protests, you do not believe Jesus Christ because He says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

So, this means one week before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

And this means two years before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

Furthermore, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

No matter how far back in time before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" remain absolutely true; therefore, Jesus Christ declares Himself God with reference to "I AM the Being" (Exodus 3:14).

Going back in time, Jesus is always "I AM" never created, He is always "I AM".

In the Septuagint's Exodus 3:14, "ego eimi" exists in the Word of God.

Nonetheless, you do not believe Jesus Christ because at some point in the past you claim that Jesus Christ was not, but, on the other hand, Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so Jesus Christ exists always prior to Abraham's birth.

YOUR THEOLOGICAL IDOL IS DEAD FOR YOUR NEWS IS NO GOOD NEWS AT ALL (GALATIANS 1:7).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Ronald Nolette · Oct 2, 2021

Kermos said:
I am not talking about whether you have a choice to listen to your wife.

I am talking about the Word of God LITERALLY declaring the CAUSE of Adam eating of the tree forbidden as food being that Adam LISTENED to the voice of his wife (Genesis 3:17).

It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

The Word of God says "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17).

You convey your heart's treasure of "because you chose to listen to the voice of your wife, and have free-willingly eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'"" (Ronald Nolette's word).

You repeatedly and wickedly add "free-willingly" and/or "chose" and/or "compelled" and/or "obey" to Genesis 3:17.

"Free-willingly" is not in Genesis 3:17.

"Chose" is not in Genesis 3:17.

"Compelled" is not in Genesis 3:17.

"Obey" is not in Genesis 3:17.

Ronald Nolette, your adding to His word proves who you are.

You adulterate the Word of God then you self-willedly (2 Peter 2:9-10) declare your resultant "word of Ronald Nolette" as pure yet the "word of Ronald Nolette" is impure; on the other hand, the exclusive Word of God is pure (1 Peter 2:2).

I have no intention of participating in your folly of destruction, that is, your adding to the Word of God.

The scripture does not say that Adam acted at the sound of his wife's voice.

Genesis 3:17 is quoted above.

Adam's action is recorded in Genesis 3:6 as "and he ate".

Genesis 3:6 does not contain "free-willingly" nor "chose" nor "compelled" nor "obey".

It is NOT written "and God placed one of the four footed creatures in front of Adam and God asked 'what name do you free-will choose for this creature cat, dog, or deer?'".

It is written "Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him" (Genesis 2:19-20).

Behold, Genesis 2:19-20 does not contain "free-will" nor "choose" nor "compelled" nor "obey".

Adam gave (assigned) names to the animals and the birds per the record in Genesis 2:19-20. The name that occurred to Adam is the name that Adam assigned to the creatures.

Not "choose" as per your heart's thoughts, but truly "gave" per scripture.

So, there is more of you wickedly adding to scripture.

Based on your writing there, the "word of Ronald Nolette" preaches "and the LORD God inquired of the man, asking 'Will you please choose to eat of the trees in the garden, and please will you choose whether to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die'"

See the pure Word of God "and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying 'Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying'" (Genesis 2:16-17).

See, Genesis 2:16-17 does not contain "free-will" nor "choose" nor "compelled" nor "obey".

See, Genesis 2:16-17 does not contain a question, so your "God gave Adam and Eve a choice to eat or not eatr the tree of knowledge" is the precepts of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

See, Genesis 2:16-17 does contain a command of God!

Unsaved persons cannot help but to adulterate the Word of God into the Idol of their lust.

I tell you, the agenda is that some may be saved (1 Corinthians 10:33).

The Apostle Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree forbidden as food subjecting creation to futility for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" ... "until now" (Romans 8:20-22), as this post in this thread shows.

You convey your heart's treasure of "the creation was subjected to futility free willingly" (Ronald Nolette's contrivance).

You preach the opposite of Paul.

When you preach your heart's treasure, you do not receive the Truth.

I proclaim the same as the Apostle Paul.

Jesus is the pure Word of God (John 1:14, 1 Peter 2:2).

When you inject your word into the Word of God, you self-willedly produce impure word (2 Peter 2:9-10).

@Ronald Nolette your unholy thoughts are exposed.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Thus endeth this foolishness.

But you did add to Scriptuire youreself in writing about Paul in Romans 8:22. Unless you can prove that Adam subjected all of creation ot hope:

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

YOu added to teh word of God and we now know who you are. Two can play that chhildish game.

grumix8 · Oct 2, 2021

Freewill was given since dawn of time and man had freewill that's why it made msitake just like you Kermos. Learn from your mistakes and find God's way not your own.

BARNEY BRIGHT · Oct 3, 2021

Kermos said:
With all that being said to you in the previous post that God had me make to you, I want to focus on the fact that, despite your protests, you do not believe Jesus Christ because He says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

So, this means one week before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

And this means two years before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

Furthermore, the minute prior to the minute any of all the angels were created, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" are true.

No matter how far back in time before Abraham was born, Jesus Christ's words of "I AM" remain absolutely true; therefore, Jesus Christ declares Himself God with reference to "I AM the Being" (Exodus 3:14).

Going back in time, Jesus is always "I AM" never created, He is always "I AM".

In the Septuagint's Exodus 3:14, "ego eimi" exists in the Word of God.

Nonetheless, you do not believe Jesus Christ because at some point in the past you claim that Jesus Christ was not, but, on the other hand, Jesus Christ says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so Jesus Christ exists always prior to Abraham's birth.

YOUR THEOLOGICAL IDOL IS DEAD FOR YOUR NEWS IS NO GOOD NEWS AT ALL (GALATIANS 1:7).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

I know you believe that you're speaking the truth and that you believe God told you to tell me these things, but not only do I not agree with you in what you believe to be the truth but also I don't believe it was God who told you to tell me these things.

I also told you that there are Jews who are christians that have their hebrew Bibles which are in the Hebrew language and when it comes to the scriptures at John 8:58 they use two Hebrew words, "ani hayithi" which when translated into english mean, "I have been," they don't use the one hebrew word, "Ehyeh" which is the Hebrew word used at Exodus 3:14 which translated into english means "I AM." So they do not make out that at John 8:58 Jesus was trying to imitate Jehovah God and give us the impression that he himself was YHWH God.

As I said when John wrote his gospel he didn't quote the Septuagint Greek translation, which as you know is a Greek translation of the old testament. So when John was inspired to write John 8:58 he didn't quote the scripture of Exodus 3:14, if he had, he would have wrote the phrase that was there at Exodus 3:14 which is, "ego eimi oh On." Instead John used the Greek word "ego eimi" and if John had used this Greek word, "ego eimi" does not have any introductory material ahead of it then yes "ego eimi" should be translated as, "I AM" but at John 8:58 the Greek word "ego eimi" does have introductory material ahead of it so the more accurate translation of "ego eimi" in this grammatical setting is, "I am he" or "I have been" depending on the context.

I have always said that the Only Begotten Son of God existed before the angels or anything else which was created, but I also understand that at Revelation 3:14 it says that the Only Begotten Son of God is the beginning of creation. So he had a beginning at some point. The True God, he has no beginning.

As for whether or not Adam had free will, the scriptures show we do. For Adam to be created in God's image and likeness he would have to have free will, otherwise Adam wouldn't be in God's image or likeness. Adam, therefore mankind, because of their love for the true God, could/can choose to intelligently praise YHWH God for his wonderful qualities and support YHWH God sovereignty.
So Adam, therefore mankind, has the capacity to choose what they are going to do or how they're going to act in different situations that come along in their life.

Tong2020 · Oct 3, 2021

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
I know you believe that you're speaking the truth and that you believe God told you to tell me these things, but not only do I not agree with you in what you believe to be the truth but also I don't believe it was God who told you to tell me these things.

I also told you that there are Jews who are christians that have their hebrew Bibles which are in the Hebrew language and when it comes to the scriptures at John 8:58 they use two Hebrew words, "ani hayithi" which when translated into english mean, "I have been," they don't use the one hebrew word, "Ehyeh" which is the Hebrew word used at Exodus 3:14 which translated into english means "I AM." So they do not make out that at John 8:58 Jesus was trying to imitate Jehovah God and give us the impression that he himself was YHWH God.

As I said when John wrote his gospel he didn't quote the Septuagint Greek translation, which as you know is a Greek translation of the old testament. So when John was inspired to write John 8:58 he didn't quote the scripture of Exodus 3:14, if he had, he would have wrote the phrase that was there at Exodus 3:14 which is, "ego eimi oh On." Instead John used the Greek word "ego eimi" and if John had used this Greek word, "ego eimi" does not have any introductory material ahead of it then yes "ego eimi" should be translated as, "I AM" but at John 8:58 the Greek word "ego eimi" does have introductory material ahead of it so the more accurate translation of "ego eimi" in this grammatical setting is, "I am he" or "I have been" depending on the context.

I have always said that the Only Begotten Son of God existed before the angels or anything else which was created, but I also understand that at Revelation 3:14 it says that the Only Begotten Son of God is the beginning of creation. So he had a beginning at some point. The True God, he has no beginning.

I will refrain from getting into that here in this thread.

But let me just say this. The indisputable point in that passage is that Jesus Christ preexistent before Abraham.

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
As for whether or not Adam had free will, the scriptures show we do. For Adam to be created in God's image and likeness he would have to have free will, otherwise Adam wouldn't be in God's image or likeness. Adam, therefore mankind, because of their love for the true God, could/can choose to intelligently praise YHWH God for his wonderful qualities and support YHWH God sovereignty.
So Adam, therefore mankind, has the capacity to choose what they are going to do or how they're going to act in different situations that come along in their life.

<<<As for whether or not Adam had free will, the scriptures show we do.>>>

Agree.

<<<For Adam to be created in God's image and likeness he would have to have free will, otherwise Adam wouldn't be in God's image or likeness.>>>

Not necessarily. That line of reasoning is problematic with regards Adam created without having knowledge of good and evil.

Tong
R4471

BARNEY BRIGHT · Oct 4, 2021

Tong2020 said:
I will refrain from getting into that here in this thread.

But let me just say this. The indisputable point in that passage is that Jesus Christ preexistent before Abraham.

<<<As for whether or not Adam had free will, the scriptures show we do.>>>

Agree.

<<<For Adam to be created in God's image and likeness he would have to have free will, otherwise Adam wouldn't be in God's image or likeness.>>>

Not necessarily. That line of reasoning is problematic with regards Adam created without having knowledge of good and evil.

Tong
R4471

I believe Adam knew it was wrong to disobey God when God commanded him, to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. When the Angel who became Satan used a serpent said to Eve that they would be like God's, knowing good and evil, it suggests something more than just helpful knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. Like I said Adam knew it was wrong to disobey God. It's also reasonable to believe that Adam knew death was a bad thing. The Bible never says that Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong. In fact, Genesis 3:2–3 is clear that they did understand the difference between right and wrong; Eve knew God had instructed her and Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit (cf. Genesis 2:16–17). To take the name of the forbidden tree, “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Genesis 2:9), to mean that Adam and Eve had no understanding of good and evil is a misunderstanding. In the Bible, the word knowledge often means “experience," so while it is true that, prior to the fall, Adam and Eve had no experience of evil, they did understand the concept of good and evil perfectly well, or they would not have known what obedience to God’s instructions meant.
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil basically represents Gods right to decide what is in the best interests of mankind(good) and what isn't in the best interests of mankind(bad). So to know “good and evil” as Jehovah and his only-begotten Son know it would seem to mean to know good and evil for yourself, that is, you make the decision of what is good and what is evil, you judge what is right and what is wrong. Adam and Eve were no longer theocratic, they no longer looked to God as the Universal Sovereign over all creatures, they no longer accepted him as the one to determine right and wrong. They were going to determine for themselves what they were going to do on the earth, and not let God be the Supreme Arbiter.

Tong2020 · Oct 4, 2021

BARNEY BRIGHT said:
I believe Adam knew it was wrong to disobey God when God commanded him, to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. When the Angel who became Satan used a serpent said to Eve that they would be like God's, knowing good and evil, it suggests something more than just helpful knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. Like I said Adam knew it was wrong to disobey God. It's also reasonable to believe that Adam knew death was a bad thing. The Bible never says that Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong. In fact, Genesis 3:2–3 is clear that they did understand the difference between right and wrong; Eve knew God had instructed her and Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit (cf. Genesis 2:16–17). To take the name of the forbidden tree, “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Genesis 2:9), to mean that Adam and Eve had no understanding of good and evil is a misunderstanding. In the Bible, the word knowledge often means “experience," so while it is true that, prior to the fall, Adam and Eve had no experience of evil, they did understand the concept of good and evil perfectly well, or they would not have known what obedience to God’s instructions meant.
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil basically represents Gods right to decide what is in the best interests of mankind(good) and what isn't in the best interests of mankind(bad). So to know “good and evil” as Jehovah and his only-begotten Son know it would seem to mean to know good and evil for yourself, that is, you make the decision of what is good and what is evil, you judge what is right and what is wrong. Adam and Eve were no longer theocratic, they no longer looked to God as the Universal Sovereign over all creatures, they no longer accepted him as the one to determine right and wrong. They were going to determine for themselves what they were going to do on the earth, and not let God be the Supreme Arbiter.

A lot of personal opinion and conjecture there.

<<<To take the name of the forbidden tree, “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” (Genesis 2:9), to mean that Adam and Eve had no understanding of good and evil is a misunderstanding.>>>

Gen.3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Tong
R4485

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads