No Hell, No Devil = Christian Socialism

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veteran

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This argument over the meaning of "everlasting" in Scripture to try and exclude Christ's and His Apostle's warnings about everlasting destruction is an example of the form of Socialist religion Skousen remarked from one of the Soviet Communist strategic points against the West. The Communists propose social religion be stressed, instead of Revealed Religion from The Bible.

NT examples like Matt.18:8, or Matt.25:41, or Matt.25:46, or 2 Thess.1:9, or Rom.16:26, and many others, all use the Greek word 'aionios' which literally means everlasting, for ever. Here's its usage in Romans 16...

Rom 16:25-26
25 Now to Him That is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
(KJV)

Someone try to tell me that word there in Rom.16:26 doesn't mean "everlasting" as written.


We don't need the silly confusion of socialist doctrines applied to that Greek word 'aionios' which means everlasting in English.

The whole idea about everlasting destruction is about death, hell, Satan, and the wicked being destroyed, gone forever, no more. That's the meaning in the Psalms also. And it's simple.

And Christ used the valley of Hinnom as a symbolic metaphor FOR the future "lake of fire" event of destruction that is to occur at the end of His thousand years future reign. Per Rev.20:14, the abode called "hell" (Greek haides) goes INTO THAT LAKE OF FIRE, teaching us that hell, haides, hades, or whatever one wants to call it, is a REAL place in the heavenly dimension for the wicked dead.

The idea that when our flesh dies our spirit is also in the ground with it is a materialist notion which disregards The Word of God, Eccl.12:5-7 for one, 1 Cor.5 for another, and 1 Cor.15 for yet another, and also Luke 9:28-31 (remember, Moses died).
 

aspen

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I guess you guys like to argue......there is no other reason to engage in conversation with Truth, unless you plan to agree with him.

I guess you guys like to argue......there is no other reason to engage in conversation with Truth, unless you plan to agree with him.
 

Alethos

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I guess you guys like to argue......there is no other reason to engage in conversation with Truth, unless you plan to agree with him.

I guess you guys like to argue......there is no other reason to engage in conversation with Truth, unless you plan to agree with him.

Aspen, Ducky & Veteran,

Clearly many of you are becoming despondent.

It has been clearly established you cannot prove from the Bible a satan in Genesis...we can prove sin and death, but no satan!

Therefore I am open for you to explain the destruction of the devil from the Apocalypse?

How is the devil or satan destroyed, other than Heb 2:14 :)

Alethos



This argument over the meaning of "everlasting" in Scripture to try and exclude Christ's and His Apostle's warnings about everlasting destruction is an example of the form of Socialist religion Skousen remarked from one of the Soviet Communist strategic points against the West. The Communists propose social religion be stressed, instead of Revealed Religion from The Bible.

NT examples like Matt.18:8, or Matt.25:41, or Matt.25:46, or 2 Thess.1:9, or Rom.16:26, and many others, all use the Greek word 'aionios' which literally means everlasting, for ever. Here's its usage in Romans 16...

Rom 16:25-26
25 Now to Him That is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
(KJV)

Someone try to tell me that word there in Rom.16:26 doesn't mean "everlasting" as written.


We don't need the silly confusion of socialist doctrines applied to that Greek word 'aionios' which means everlasting in English.

The whole idea about everlasting destruction is about death, hell, Satan, and the wicked being destroyed, gone forever, no more. That's the meaning in the Psalms also. And it's simple.

And Christ used the valley of Hinnom as a symbolic metaphor FOR (everlasting death) the future "lake of fire" event of destruction that is to occur at the end of His thousand years future reign. Per Rev.20:14, the abode called "hell" (Greek haides) goes INTO THAT LAKE OF FIRE, teaching us that hell, haides, hades, or whatever one wants to call it, is a REAL place in the heavenly dimension for the wicked dead.

The idea that when our flesh dies our spirit is also in the ground with it is a materialist notion which disregards The Word of God, Eccl.12:5-7 for one, 1 Cor.5 for another, and 1 Cor.15 for yet another, and also Luke 9:28-31 (remember, Moses died).

(Alethos added red text for truth)

Veteran, I have no trouble at all with the word everlasting, to mean everlasting! However, regarding the above we can address many of these assumptions later, for now I would like you to explain how, when, where the make believe supernatural monster is destroyed?

No doubt we are going to the Revelation.Alethos
 

Duckybill

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Clearly many of you are becoming despondent.

Clearly? Why must you keep making this stuff up?

It has been clearly established you cannot prove from the Bible a satan in Genesis...we can prove sin and death, but no satan!

On the contrary, it was clearly proven over and over. You denying it doesn't prove anything.

Therefore I am open for you to explain the destruction of the devil from the Apocalypse?


How is the devil or satan destroyed, other than Heb 2:14


The devil will NEVER be "destroyed". He will be in agony in the eternal fire forever, as will his children.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 

aspen

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So we should shut up and let the deceiver do his work?


Oh sorry Ducky,

I didn't realize that you were stopping him........I thought you were engaging him; allowing him to continue spewing his false doctrine.......my mistake.
 

Alethos

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The devil will NEVER be "destroyed". He will be in agony in the eternal fire forever, as will his children.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Putting to one side your usual guff can you provide more detail about the devil burning in eternal fire? Just explain to me your understanding of the events, what takes place who is involved and how this being is bound etc. Aspen can join in too :)

thanks

Alethos
 

Duckybill

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Oh sorry Ducky,

I didn't realize that you were stopping him........I thought you were engaging him; allowing him to continue spewing his false doctrine.......my mistake.
If you choose to be silent then that's between you and God. If I choose to point out Satan's attacks on God's Word why do you criticize?

 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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If you choose to be silent then that's between you and God. If I choose to point out Satan's attacks on God's Word why do you criticize?


You are providing excellent verses....I admit it, but I also see the futility. Truth is playing off all of our posts. He is so obviously wrong that people can see it clearly, why continue to give him a voice?


 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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Putting to one side your usual guff can you provide more detail about the devil burning in eternal fire?

Please quote my "guff". Your beef is with God's Word.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


You are providing excellent verses....I admit it, but I also see the futility. Truth is playing off all of our posts. He is so obviously wrong that people can see it clearly, why continue to give him a voice?
Personally I believe it is great spiritual exercise discussing and debating about God's Word. It also helps me to understand exactly why and what I believe.

 

Alethos

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You are providing excellent verses....I admit it, but I also see the futility. Truth is playing off all of our posts. He is so obviously wrong that people can see it clearly, why continue to give him a voice?

Yes Heb 4:12 applies here...I contend to teach (Jude 1:3) and defend against error, one must expose it for exactly that "error". My Master often used the Pharisees to teach his disciples in the same way, so Aspen you are "strangely" right...as Jesus taught, they continued to reason among themselves (Luke 5:21; John 12:19) just as you both are doing here now, but others who have ears to hear or eyes to see, they look, heard and believed and because of their belief were "saved".

I stated my intentions from the very beginning and said to Ducky numerous times, that I would engage his fasle teachings for the sake of truth being revealed.

Alethos - 2 Tim 4:2

 

Duckybill

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I stated my intentions from the very beginning and said to Ducky numerous times, that I would engage his fasle teachings for the sake of truth being revealed.
You have perverted and twisted nearly every Scripture and Bible doctrine that has been discussed here. Perhaps that's why you avoid answering direct, simple questions.
 

Alethos

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You have perverted and twisted nearly every Scripture and Bible doctrine that has been discussed here. Perhaps that's why you avoid answering direct, simple questions.

And I have endured many accusations (fiery darts) and provided studies in the Holy Scriptures, comparing scripture with scripture, and not once have I introduced fairy tales of Hollywood monsters and Gnostic fantasies.

All your questions were answered and some.

Alethos

ps Heb 2:14 has stood the test of time.

 

Duckybill

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And I have endured many accusations (fiery darts) and provided studies in the Holy Scriptures, comparing scripture with scripture, and not once have I introduced fairy tales of Hollywood monsters and Gnostic fantasies.
Fiery darts? You mean the fiery darts of "the devil", "the wicked one"?

Ephesians 6:10-16 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. [sup]11 [/sup]Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [sup]12 [/sup]For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. [sup]13 [/sup]Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. [sup]14 [/sup]Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, [sup]15 [/sup]and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; [sup]16 [/sup]above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.

Your denial of the devil is refuted, again and again ...

All your questions were answered and some.

I must have missed your answer. If this isn't the Lord Jesus then who is it?

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings

ps Heb 2:14 has stood the test of time.

As has this:

1 Peter 5:8-9 (NKJV)
[sup]8 [/sup]Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. [sup]9 [/sup]Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

 

Alethos

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I must have missed your answer. If this isn't the Lord Jesus then who is it?

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings


Would someone out there care to explain to Ducky the use of the word Lord?

Anyone?

Alethos
 

Duckybill

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Would someone out there care to explain to Ducky the use of the word Lord?

Anyone?
Would someone explain to Alethos that he 'ducked' the question again and again ... Let's try again.

"I must have missed your answer. If this isn't the Lord Jesus then who is it?

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings"


Was the question too difficult? Let's try this. This must be Jesus, God or both. So then, tell us which Alethos.

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings


Would someone out there care to explain to Ducky the use of the word Lord?

Anyone?
There is only ONE "The Lord" Alethos.

 

aspen

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pure insanity. But if it is profitable for you, Ducky - I will not stand in your way. People think I am nuts for talking with Mormon missionaries, too - btw, their theology is certainly wrong, but at least they do not mutilate scripture as badly as Truth.....honestly, I have never seen his equal. Even Mormon's level of arrogance pales in comparison - and they believe they are gods-in-waiting!
 

Alethos

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Aspen, your comments echoes Acts 28:22 don’t you think?

But I do take comfort in the knowledge of Pauls example in Acts 28:23 where Paul forcefully set forth the gospel of the Kingdom in all his letters: ie Col 1:13; 4:11; Heb 12:28; 1Co 4:20; 6:9; 2Th 1:5; 2Ti 4:18.

In the Masters Service.
 

Duckybill

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People think I am nuts for talking with Mormon missionaries, too - btw, their theology is certainly wrong, but at least they do not mutilate scripture as badly as Truth.....honestly, I have never seen his equal. Even Mormon's level of arrogance pales in comparison - and they believe they are gods-in-waiting!
I would very much like to see a thread on Mormon doctrines. I think I know some of what they believe but clarification would be nice.