The Beast Nature

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Duckybill

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John 8:28 (ESV)

[sup]28 [/sup]So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me.
 

Duckybill

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'Truth', if you still deny that Jesus is the Son of Man you are stone blinded by Satan.

John 9:35-38 (ESV)

[sup]35 [/sup]Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” [sup]36 [/sup]He answered, “And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?” [sup]37 [/sup]Jesus said to him, “You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you.” [sup]38 [/sup]He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
 

Alethos

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John 8:28 (ESV)

[sup]28 [/sup]So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me.

Yes Jesus had no authority in the Flesh (of his own)..in fact you will note Jesus had no knowledge, at all, until His Father taught him.

How can Jesus be God and have no knowledge?

Now quote the first appearence of "Son of Man"....Number 23

Alethos
 

Duckybill

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Yes Jesus had no authority in the Flesh..in fact you will Jesus had no knowledge at all until His Father taught him.

How can Jesus be God but have no knowledge?
Philippians 2:7-8 (ESV)
[sup]7 [/sup]but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. [sup]8 [/sup]And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


After His resurrection:

John 21:17 (ESV)
[sup]17 [/sup]He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.”

Now quote the first appearence of "Son of Man"

Totally irrelevant! You are trying to change the subject. Jesus is clearly the Son of Man in the NT.

John 6:53-54 (ESV)
[sup]53 [/sup]So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. [sup]54 [/sup]Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

You obviously know nothing about this subject.
 

Alethos

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Philippians 2:7-8 (ESV)
[sup]7 [/sup]but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. [sup]8 [/sup]And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


After His resurrection:

John 21:17 (ESV)
[sup]17 [/sup]He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.”

Totally irrelevant! You are trying to change the subject. Jesus is clearly the Son of Man in the NT.

John 6:53-54 (ESV)
[sup]53 [/sup]So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. [sup]54 [/sup]Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

You obviously know nothing about this subject.


Yes he is the Son of Man who was promised from the beginning.

But Son of Man in Numbers please.

Waiting...
 

Duckybill

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Yes he is the Son of Man who was promised from the beginning.

But Son of Man in Numbers please.

Waiting...
You clearly implied that this wasn't Jesus:

John 3:13 (NKJV)
[sup]13 [/sup]No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Stop changing the subject. You are wrong so admit it. It is Jesus.

 

Alethos

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Are you are willing to do some Bible Study together?

Try and find the very first occurrence of the phrase "son of man"
in the Bible, and post it. In the AV we have 193 occurrences of this phrase. But lets have a look together at the first one and see what it reveals.

In answering your question which is valid I am willing to look at all 193 with you.

Alethos

My offer still stands Ducky.
 

Alethos

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Num 23:19 God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

God -- The word "God" is El, expressive of God in the fullness of His power. He has the strength and ability to carry out His purpose, which man has not! See 1 Sam. 15:29; Mal. 3:6; Rom. 11:29; James 1:17. God had Jesus as the centre of His creation. He would have a Son, born of a woman and therefore man!...But God is not Jesus who is the very "Son of Man" the one who would be made man that he might overcome all that is in man! John 2:25 Jesus knew!!!! by experience and that iss why God can never be man, I say again, He can never be man, nor the Son of Man.

"Neither the son of man, that He should repent" We find the Hebrew word here for "repent" can signify to change one's mind. See ESV ! Gen. 6:6. God can, and has, changed His declared purpose when His people have not conformed to His will; but He is not limited, as flesh is, to be compelled to change His mind because of lack of power or ability to perform His purpose.

This verse reveal the singleness of mind in he Father unlike His future son who would need to contend with the carnal mind and its lusts. (Rom 8) God is not man nor can He ever be, he is well beyond flesh and blood and not even the whole earth can contain Him. God cannot lie, He cannot be tempted, He is totally in control of all things both in Heaven and Earth and in the Heavens He is 'always" obeyed by His angelic host.

His servant by grace

Alethos
 

Duckybill

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Num 23:19
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

God hadn't yet came in the flesh. Now He has.
God -- The word "God" is El, expressive of God in the fullness of His power. He has the strength and ability to carry out His purpose, which man has not! See 1 Sam. 15:29; Mal. 3:6; Rom. 11:29; James 1:17. God had Jesus as the centre of His creation. He would have a Son, born of a woman and therefore man!...But God is not Jesus who is the very "Son of Man" the one who would be made man that he might overcome all that is in man! John 2:25 Jesus knew!!!! by experience and that iss why God can never be man, I say again, He can never be man, nor the Son of Man.

"Neither the son of man, that He should repent" We find the Hebrew word here for "repent" can signify to change one's mind. See ESV ! Gen. 6:6. God can, and has, changed His declared purpose when His people have not conformed to His will; but He is not limited, as flesh is, to be compelled to change His mind because of lack of power or ability to perform His purpose.

This verse reveal the singleness of mind in he Father unlike His future son who would need to contend with the carnal mind and its lusts. (Rom 8) God is not man nor can He ever be, he is well beyond flesh and blood and not even the whole earth can contain Him. God cannot lie, He cannot be tempted, He is totally in control of all things both in Heaven and Earth and in the Heavens He is 'always" obeyed by His angelic host.

Jesus/God:

Isaiah 40:3 (ESV)
[sup]3 [/sup]A voice cries: “In the wilderness prepare the way of the Lord; make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Matthew 3:1-3 (ESV)
[sup]1 [/sup]In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, [sup]2 [/sup]“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” [sup]3 [/sup]For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah when he said, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord; make his paths straight.’ ”



My offer still stands Ducky.
Who's stopping you from typing???

 

Alethos

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Num 23:19 God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

God -- The word "God" is El, expressive of God in the fullness of His power. He has the strength and ability to carry out His purpose, which man has not! See 1 Sam. 15:29; Mal. 3:6; Rom. 11:29; James 1:17. God had Jesus as the centre of His creation. He would have a Son, born of a woman and therefore man!...But God is not Jesus who is the very "Son of Man" the one who would be made man that he might overcome all that is in man! John 2:25 Jesus knew!!!! by experience and that is why God can never be man, I say again, He can never be man, nor the Son of Man.

"Neither the son of man, that He should repent" We find the Hebrew word here for "repent" can signify to change one's mind. See ESV ! Gen. 6:6. God can, and has, changed His declared purpose when His people have not conformed to His will; but He is not limited, as flesh is, to be compelled to change His mind because of lack of power or ability to perform His purpose.

This verse reveal the singleness of mind in he Father unlike His future son who would need to contend with the carnal mind and its lusts. (Rom 8) God is not man nor can He ever be, he is well beyond flesh and blood and not even the whole earth can contain Him. God cannot lie, He cannot be tempted, He is totally in control of all things both in Heaven and Earth and in the Heavens He is 'always" obeyed by His angelic host.

His servant by grace

Alethos

God is not a man - if only you understood El.
 

Alethos

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Matthew 1:23 (ESV)
[sup]23 [/sup]“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).


Ducky,

Did you know 2 Cor 5:19 that at the end of Matthews gospel Jesus revealed the exact same lesson from which he had learnt of His father. teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I (Jesus) am with you always, to the end of the age." Mat 28:20

This was Jesus' encouragement to his disciples, just as His Father had provided him the same comfort; so now that God has given him a name which is now above every name Phil 2:9 Christ's is presence is perpetually with his believers (cp Mat 18:20; Act 18:9,10).

Eph 1:20 Which he (God) wrought in Christ, when he (God) raised him (Jesus) from the dead, and set him (Jesus) at his (God's) own right hand in the heavenly places, Eph 1:21
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Ducky where does Jesus now sit?

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son (Jesus), whom he (God) hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he (Jesus) made the worlds; Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his (God) glory, and the express image of his (God's) person, and upholding all things by the word of his (God's) power, when he (Jesus) had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty (God) on high;

A remarkable piece of scripture as it shows that God spoke through prophets of old and in like manner through HIs son. The whole idea of being given a name and sitting down had not taken place previously! To think this would make a mockery of his achievement and victory over sin.

BY HIS SON Ps 2:7, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father," and 2 Sa 7:14, "I will be his father, and he will be my son."

How could God speak of a future son if he was already in Heaven :blink: make no sense whatsoever.

I will be (future tense with a beginning)

today I have become (future tense with a beginning!)


Alethos
Num 23:19





 

Duckybill

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Eph 1:20 Which he (God) wrought in Christ, when he (God) raised him (Jesus) from the dead,
and set him (Jesus) at his (God's) own right hand in the heavenly places, Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:


John 10:17-18 (ESV)
[sup]17 [/sup]For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. [sup]18 [/sup]No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again.


Ducky where does Jesus now sit?


Genesis 1:26 (ESV)
[sup]26 [/sup]Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.



Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son (Jesus), whom he (God) hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he (Jesus) made the worlds; Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his (God) glory, and the express image of his (God's) person, and upholding all things by the word of his (God's) power, when he (Jesus) had by himself purged our sins,
sat down on the right hand of the Majesty (God) on high;


Hebrews 1:8-9 (ESV)
[sup]8 [/sup]But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. [sup]9 [/sup]You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” [sup]10 [/sup]And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;


A remarkable piece of scripture as it shows that God spoke through prophets of old and in like manner through HIs son. The whole idea of being given a name and sitting down had not taken place previously! To think this would make a mockery of his achievement and victory over sin.


John 5:18 (ESV)
[sup]18 [/sup]This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.


BY HIS SON Ps 2:7, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father," and 2 Sa 7:14, "I will be his father, and he will be my son."


Psalm 2:7 (ESV)
[sup]7 [/sup]I will tell of the decree: The Lord said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.


How could God speak of a future son if he was already in Heaven make no sense whatsoever.
I will be (future tense with a beginning)

today I have become (future tense with a beginning!)


John 17:5 (ESV)
[sup]5 [/sup]And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Num 23:19

That was before He became a man. Notice that I have answered everyone of your comments. Why don't you try it for a change?

John 1 (ESV)
[sup]1 [/sup]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [sup]2 [/sup]He was in the beginning with God. [sup]3 [/sup]All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. [sup]4 [/sup]In him was life, and the life was the light of men. [sup]5 [/sup]The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. [sup]6 [/sup]There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. [sup]7 [/sup]He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. [sup]8 [/sup]He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. [sup]9 [/sup]The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. [sup]10 [/sup]He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. [sup]11 [/sup]He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. [sup]12 [/sup]But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, [sup]13 [/sup]who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. [sup]14 [/sup]And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
 

Alethos

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[/b][/size]

John 10:17-18 (ESV)
[sup]17 [/sup]For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. [sup]18 [/sup]No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again.

[/size]

I can see you put a lot more work in this reply than usual, well done!

Firstly, who raised up Jesus Christ and who gave him the authority to both lay it down and have it raised.

God raised up Christ because while he was in total death only the Father could raise him, as the Scripture state it was not possible that death should hold him:
Acts 2:23,24,32; 3:15; 5:30; 10:39,40; 1 Co 15:15.

For Jesus to truely die, that is to absolutly cease to exist in total nothingness as do all men and woman who return to the dust. Jesus had to also taste death - for he was sent to over the devil that power of death i.e sin Heb 2:14...

Who raised up Jesus?

Heb 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts 2:24
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Act 13:34 And as concerning that he (God) raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Acts 2:32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Authority?

Means "Exousia", Mat 7:29; 21:23; Luke 7:8; John 5:27. A right bestowed by a higher power (God) . "I am authorized..." Cp John 5:19,30.

Sorry Ducky, everything about Jesus finds it source in the Almighty God, One True God beside whom there is none other.

Alethos

 

Duckybill

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John 1 The Word was with God.... The Word was God... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us ...

Whether you believe it or not.
 

Alethos

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John 1 The Word was with God.... The Word was God... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us ...

Whether you believe it or not.

In other words "I believe God raised up Jesus" but I prefer not to acknowledge this truth (openly) as I would rather continue to push my error, because I do not want to lose face (pride) nor not change my error for truth as revealed in the Bible (pride).

Either way Ducky you are left with pride.

The alternative would be "maybe my understanding of John 1 is not quite complete and how can I broaden my understanding and thereby grow in truth"?

You cannot Ducky while you're grasping so tightly onto pride (error).

Alethos

 

Duckybill

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In other words "I believe God raised up Jesus" but I prefer not to acknowledge this truth (openly) as I would rather continue to push my error, because I do not want to lose face (pride) nor not change my error for truth as revealed in the Bible (pride).

Either way Ducky you are left with pride.

The alternative would be "maybe my understanding of John 1 is not quite complete and how can I broaden my understanding and thereby grow in truth"?

You cannot Ducky while you're grasping so tightly onto pride (error).

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (ESV)
[sup]14 [/sup]And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. [sup]15 [/sup]So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.



 

Alethos

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Ducky, I would continue to deal with your other quotes, however you have revealed openly your belief that the Father did not raise the Son from the dead.

Let us know when you are prepared recant this error.

Alethos

I can see you put a lot more work in this reply than usual, well done!

Firstly, who raised up Jesus Christ and who gave him the authority to both lay it down and have it raised.

God raised up Christ because while he was in total death only the Father could raise him, as the Scripture state it was not possible that death should hold him:
Acts 2:23,24,32; 3:15; 5:30; 10:39,40; 1 Co 15:15.

For Jesus to truely die, that is to absolutly cease to exist in total nothingness as do all men and woman who return to the dust. Jesus had to also taste death - for he was sent to over the devil that power of death i.e sin Heb 2:14...

Who raised up Jesus?

Heb 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts 2:24
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Act 13:34 And as concerning that he (God) raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Acts 2:32
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Authority?

Means "Exousia", Mat 7:29; 21:23; Luke 7:8; John 5:27. A right bestowed by a higher power (God) . "I am authorized..." Cp John 5:19,30.

Sorry Ducky, everything about Jesus finds it source in the Almighty God, One True God beside whom there is none other.

Alethos
 

Duckybill

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Ducky, I would continue to deal with your other quotes, however you have revealed openly your belief that the Father did not raise the Son from the dead.

Let us know when you are prepared recant this error.
John 10:17-18 (NKJV)
[sup]17 [/sup]Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. [sup]18 [/sup]No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."