I'm appealing to all of you,

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NewMusic

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Other than having faith in Christ, that our spirits our safe, that we have eternal life, what are you worried about?

I'm not worried about anything.

The fact that you don't care about people that are going to be desperately in need, is definitely indicative of something.

And your arrogance and boasting in your flesh, is also indicative of something.

And that you want your death to be quick and fast, is also indicative of something.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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I'm not worried about anything.

The fact that you don't care about people that are going to be desperately in need, is definitely indicative of something.

And your arrogance and boasting in your flesh, is also indicative of something.

And that you want your death to be quick and fast, is also indicative of something.
That you hate organized Churches and advise people to leave their Church and follow you and be your disciple is Anti-Christian!
>>> God calls us to Church and you call us away. IT'S EVIL, a con ... "beware of wolves dressed in sheeps clothing"!
That is indicative of something!

Churches throughout history, both Catholic and Protestant and Non- Denominational have cared for people. They are blessings from God. They bear fruit. They serve the needs of their folks. They need money to care for people, missions, food, spreading the Gospel, so thy ask for tithes and good will offerings. When people are in need they go the the Church to receive help, love. They often have a storehouse of food, spiritual counsel, prayers and much learning on many levels, kids through adulthood. The congregants love eachother as family. They get to know eachother closely - you can't really do that on line. My Pastor was great, a former Pharmacist turned preacher, very knowledgable and educated. Organized Churches ususally require at least a Masters degree in Christian theology of which there are many. A Church needs somone up there who knows what they are talking about, a leader of the flock. Not all Pastors are good, so seek and you will find.

Your attitude towards church is suspect. If someone disagrees with you, you label them immature or insult them as you did above. Nobody is boasting, I am just secure in my faith.
 
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NewMusic

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That you hate organized Churches and advise people to leave their Church and follow you and be your disciple is Anti-Christian!
>>> God calls us to Church and you call us away. IT'S EVIL, a con ... "beware of wolves dressed in sheeps clothing"!
That is indicative of something!

Churches throughout history, both Catholic and Protestant and Non- Denominational have cared for people. They are blessings from God. They bear fruit. They serve the needs of their folks. They need money to care for people, missions, food, spreading the Gospel, so thy ask for tithes and good will offerings. When people are in need they go the the Church to receive help, love. They often have a storehouse of food, spiritual counsel, prayers and much learning on many levels, kids through adulthood. The congregants love eachother as family. They get to know eachother closely - you can't really do that on line. My Pastor was great, a former Pharmacist turned preacher, very knowledgable and educated. Organized Churches ususally require at least a Masters degree in Christian theology of which there are many. A Church needs somone up there who knows what they are talking about, a leader of the flock. Not all Pastors are good, so seek and you will find.

Your attitude towards church is suspect. If someone disagrees with you, you label them immature or insult them as you did above. Nobody is boasting, I am just secure in my faith.

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

You started by lashing out at me, saying miserable things, that I'm trying to start a faction, etc. when I never heard of you before until your post came against me, accusing me of ugly things. If you can find fault with something I have written then post the scripture that supports your man-made religious assemblies, by all means, do so. You will spend an eternity looking in the New Testament for such a thing because it does not exist.

What passes for church is actually leavened bread. Jesus prophesied it would happen after His resurrection, and it has. And the whole lump is leavened. That's what people participate in, leavened bread. And God's words through me is to make people wake up. But you like your leavened bread. Leavened bread is big, it's fluffy, it tastes better to the flesh, it's evil.

Ask yourselves, "Why is it that we only meet once a week? Why are we told tithing is a law for the church? Why do we go into debt for land, building, salaries, and all that goes along with that? Why is it we cannot have genuine fellowship where we all participate, and talk interactively with one another? Why is it that "one guy" who makes many claims about himself, is so idolized like the whole meeting revolves around him?, Why do we reject people in need because they are not tithing members in good standing?" and a zillion other things.

I know, you're happy with how things are. Nobody wants the new when the old is good enough, mentality.

I posted this a couple days ago, and it bears repeating:

Substituting the gospel of Grace with a man-made system, with rules and laws,..... has this judgment on it:


Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people."
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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You started by lashing out at me, saying miserable things, that I'm trying to start a faction,
No, I asked what you were so worried about. Apparently you don't have a Church or people to congregate with and comfort one another so you feel like summoning any and all online listeners to formulate a plan to somehow escape the GT. You can't escape it. It's going to happen, people will die, you and I or we will get raptured, which ever comes first. Some may endure through all of it. But my point was that our bodies and current lives will be persecuted and can be taken, BUT NOT OUR SPIRITS. OUR SPIRITUAL LIVES ARE SECURE.

If you can find fault with something I have written then post the scripture that supports your man-made religious assemblies
GOD ORDAINS PASTORS, PRIESTS AND CALLS HIS SHEEP TO COME AND HEAR HIS WORD.
"How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:14

"And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near." Heb. 10:24, 25





What passes for church is actually leavened bread.

And the whole lump is leavened. That's what people participate in, leavened bread.
"For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” Matt. 18:20

"For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body,
though many, are one body, so it is with Christ." 1 Cor. 12:12

"And he is the head of the body, the church... " Col. 1:18

"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ," Eph. 4:11, 12

"So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory." 1 Peter 5:1-4

"Saying, 'I will tell of your name to my brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.'” Heb. 2:12


"Why is it that we only meet once a week? Why are we told tithing is a law for the church?
My church was a Mega-Church. You could get lost among 3000, so we divided up into 100 Mini-churches that would meet during the week, to fellowship, pray, sing, discuss the sermon, get to know one another closely. Tithe was not repeated in the NT, however, we would call it a good will offering. Helping people costs money, missions cost money, the property costs. People that work for the church can't put a full time work week in for nothing.

Why do we go into debt for land, building, salaries, and all that goes along with that? Why is it we cannot have genuine fellowship where we all participate, and talk interactively with one another?
You can meet in private homes if you want, that's congregating. But in small numbers, less is done.

Why is it that "one guy" who makes many claims about himself, is so idolized like the whole meeting revolves around him?,
We all need and have humble Pastors. Mine never drew attention to himself - "It's all about Christ he would say!" There are popular preachers with powerful messages and influences. The Disciples were, I don't think they drew attention to themselves. They had humility. I think famous ones who are humble don't pat themselves on the back, they let others praise them. And many times you will hear, don't praise me, I am a servant, praise God.

Why do we reject people in need because they are not tithing members in good standing?" and a zillion other things.
Whatever church you are referring to sounds like they show favoritism. Listen, there in no perfect church. Christ's Letters to the Seven Churches in the first century proves that. Only two were faithful and the rest needed to be rebuked and needed to repent because of sin and false doctrine. No different than today.

Substituting the gospel of Grace with a man-made system, with rules and laws,..... has this judgment on it:
I agree!
 
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farouk

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I'm sorry to say I can't read, in entirety, your full posts.

I would like to ask you this:
Did Jesus intend to build a church in stone?

When He gave the Apostles the great commission in Matthew 28, what did He mean to do?

Thanks.
@GodsGrace Great passage there at the end of Matthew 28: Father, Son and Holy Spirit working together for the blessing of sinners by the Gospel through faith in Christ..
 

GodsGrace

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@GodsGrace Great passage there at the end of Matthew 28: Father, Son and Holy Spirit working together for the blessing of sinners by the Gospel through faith in Christ..
Oops. I forgot to reply to the other poster re this.

How could a church exist without a place to meet?
We are the Church....but a church (the bldg) is also needed to keep people of a like mind together.

What do you think?
 

farouk

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Oops. I forgot to reply to the other poster re this.

How could a church exist without a place to meet?
We are the Church....but a church (the bldg) is also needed to keep people of a like mind together.

What do you think?
It's really the idea of gathering as believers in the Lord's precious name, rather than strictly a particular building, that really counts. It was already so in Malachi 3.16. I love the hymn:

"Jesu, where'er Thy people meet,
There they behold the mercy seat;
To them that seek Thee, Thou art found,
And every place is hallowed ground." :)
 

Pythagorean12

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Hi Cristo Rei. Yeah, I think Beethoven was the master of masters when it came to music composition. If you take a music appreciation class (you don't have to, you can discover what I'm about to write on your own), you see that Beethoven bridged the gap between the Classical (enlightenment, intellectual age) and the Romantic period (feel good). He was between Bach and Mozart who were before him, and Chopin who came after him. While listening to Beethoven (not all of his stuff was great, mind you) you can hear the intellect in his music as well as the feel good. A combination of both periods. :)

I did not know it at the time it happened, but I was sitting at my mom's piano in February, 1981 (Billy Joel had caused me to find a new interest and love in piano a few years earlier) but I was sitting there doodling on some songs I had been struggling to teach myself by Billy Joel (painstakingly, one note and chord at at time, struggling to read the sheet music I had bought), when this thought came over me: "Write my own music? Where did that come from?" And so I did. I sat there and tried to compose something and a month later I had finished my first composition. This went on for 3 more months (I was working on my 4th composition) when the girl I was two-timing my main girlfriend with, told me she was not going to see me anymore, for I was bad for her morality. That evening, we spent 3 hours in my car talking about Jesus and how one gets saved, and she had gotten her bible from her house and was reading stuff to me. I got saved that night, and then I realized that the Holy Spirit had come over me 4 months earlier, and that the music He was giving me was for His purpose. 4 months earlier the Spirit was upon me, but not in me.

When one analyzes the music I have been granted by God, it truly is a new style. To describe it does not do it justice, but it's a combination of Classical, Jazz and Rock, all in one. It does not follow the format of verse, verse, chorus, verse. It's like going on a musical adventure.

= = = = = = =

Answering your question above: Saints is the term the bible uses for His people. If I recall correctly, its idiom means "soldier?" or loosely "people of the Lord". Catholics really distorted its meaning. It has nothing to do with what that organization thinks of it. Saints are the Christians. In Old Testament times it was the Jews who were faithful to Him.

So if nothing else, I'm germinating the field with my original post to get people thinking things they should be thinking. That's the least side. The plentiful side, would be if over the months and years, we who have found good dialogue with one another, could try and rendezvous and take it from there.

Let's take a not too hypothetical example: If Christians living in California are not allowed to leave California by order of their communist governor (they are deemed to owe the state of California money for having been given the privilege of having enjoyed their wonderful sunshine and weather that only their state provides, so the people cannot take their savings, businesses, and possessions out of the state). And if anybody attempts to leave, prison time.

How would we help them?

Or how about the 500 conservatives in torture and prison in Washington D.C. right now, who went to the Trump rally on January 6 and are now considered "Insurrectionists" and being treated worse than you can imagine, being in isolated prison cells, not getting clean drinking water, only allowed out of their cells for 1 hour a day, cold, miserable, filthy, not able to shower every day, and I know one woman already tried to commit suicide.

Not aware of the D.C. story? Try this:

Jan 6 protesters/trespassers/rioters held in solitary, no bail, some without charges

This is already happening.

What do you think is next?

We know from the scriptures that the saints are going to be imprisoned, tortured, delivered up to death, beheaded. And we need to stand with Christ regardless. Give testimony.

But by all means, try to flee and help others escape the horrors.
Not much today here save for a minor thing or two and that are naturally and only a personal opinion.

I don't believe anointed prophets worry nor complain they're not being received.

Jesus told his disciples he taught in parables for a reason. That not all understand.
If that was the case for the teachings of God, from God made flesh, today's prophet or teacher should expect no more nor less.

To the so called Jan.6th riot in D.C, those arrested, incarcerated, without bail, or charges, were all being made subject to what is called the USPatriot Act, an acronym, and that which was signed into law by Obama, the NDAA, The National Defense Authorization Act.

Each action has to be passed and renewed by Congress periodically.

This normally is where I would say, to change this write your representatives.
After the 2020 election example, it's pretty clear that won't make a difference.
 
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GodsGrace

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It's really the idea of gathering as believers in the Lord's precious name, rather than strictly a particular building, that really counts. It was already so in Malachi 3.16. I love the hymn:

"Jesu, where'er Thy people meet,
There they behold the mercy seat;
To them that seek Thee, Thou art found,
And every place is hallowed ground." :)
Yes, I like that too.

What I'm getting at, however, is that without a place to meet, I don't know how Christianity could have survived all these years - let alone the persecutions at the beginning and also later.

I think it's necessary to have some kind of institution we could look to and a place where we could meet.
By institution, I mean a body that can run these stone churches.

We need the spiritual and we also need the physical.
Especially kids....they need something they could SEE with their eyes.
 

farouk

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Yes, I like that too.

What I'm getting at, however, is that without a place to meet, I don't know how Christianity could have survived all these years - let alone the persecutions at the beginning and also later.

I think it's necessary to have some kind of institution we could look to and a place where we could meet.
By institution, I mean a body that can run these stone churches.

We need the spiritual and we also need the physical.
Especially kids....they need something they could SEE with their eyes.
Hi @GodsGrace In the end it's the doctrine and truth held by those who have been saved by God's grace and who have a desire to practise the activities of Acts 2.42, continuing steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayers - as led of the Spirit of God out of love for Christ and His Gospel, "Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory" (1 Peter 1.18). :)


"5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;

9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal."

(2 Corinthians 4.5-18)
 

Brakelite

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Ask yourselves, "Why is it that we only meet once a week? Why are we told tithing is a law for the church? Why do we go into debt for land, building, salaries, and all that goes along with that? Why is it we cannot have genuine fellowship where we all participate, and talk interactively with one another? Why is it that "one guy" who makes many claims about himself, is so idolized like the whole meeting revolves around him?, Why do we reject people in need because they are not tithing members in good standing?" and a zillion other things.
There are many churches to which none of the above apply. Including mine. Anything else you think our churches are doing with which you disagree?
 

NewMusic

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There are many churches to which none of the above apply. Including mine. Anything else you think our churches are doing with which you disagree?

If the shoe fits, wear it.

Why post an argumentative statement if your position is that you agree with the sins listed in the paragraph and the things that go against the gospel of grace? Makes no sense.
 

NewMusic

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Yes, I like that too.

What I'm getting at, however, is that without a place to meet, I don't know how Christianity could have survived all these years - let alone the persecutions at the beginning and also later.

I think it's necessary to have some kind of institution we could look to and a place where we could meet.
By institution, I mean a body that can run these stone churches.

We need the spiritual and we also need the physical.
Especially kids....they need something they could SEE with their eyes.

Your question as to where the saints should meet is provided you in the New Testament. They met in homes. They met wherever the Holy Spirit was with them. Wherever 2 or 3 met together. It's not an appointed place. It's wherever spiritual brethren can meet, which is expedient. The saints' homes fits the bill nicely, but there's nothing wrong with meeting in the woods or at a Denny's. I will not elaborate on what is common sense.

The truth is not agreeable at all with charlatans and deceived believers. They love their comfort. They love being identified with the world, and esteemed by the world. Institutions with all the same types of protocols that go along with man-made corporations. And so you have it. But you do not have God.

God will not anoint flesh. He is particular NOT ONLY about the details, but also about the manner in which the details unfold.

Like the wind. Is it coming, or going? So it is with those who are born of the Spirit. Remember John 3:8?

Institutional, organized religion, led by men, is the camp. It's the "inside the gates." So for those who have ears to hear (so far, almost none do) there's this one, too, which I forgot to post:

Heb 13:10 We have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat.
Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp.
Heb 13:12 So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood.
Heb 13:13 Therefore let us go forth to him outside the camp, and bear the abuse He endured.

Hello? :)
 
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Brakelite

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If the shoe fits, wear it.

Why post an argumentative statement if your position is that you agree with the sins listed in the paragraph and the things that go against the gospel of grace? Makes no sense.
Argumentative? Throughout this thread you have listed what you perceive as faults and have generally attributed them to every church, suggesting denominations and/it churches are all guilty of "all the above". I'm simply testifying that in my personal experience that such is not the case.
 
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Taken

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I'm appealing to all of you,
OP ^

@ NewMusic ~
Regardless of what "public forum" you elect to join, or what "title" or "name", individuals, strangers on that forum, elect to be "called"...
It is the "same" with all strangers, to be aware you do not know them simply because you greeted eachother.

Nothing new, Divisions are expressly what Jesus caused when He came to earth.
Not only Divisions between "men of the world" and "men in the world"....
But also Dividsion between "men of the world"...divided from "men of the world" and
Divisions between "men in the world"...divided from "men in the world".

God DIVIDED people in the OT.
Ex 8
[
23] And I will put a division between my people and thy people: to morrow shall this sign be.

Jesus reiterated a DIVISION in the NT, between beliefs of Jews and Jews, and beliefs of Gentiles and Gentiles.

Luke 12:
[
51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
John.7
[43] So there was a division among the people because of him.

Believing Jews are divided.
Unbelieving Jews are divided.
Believing Gentiles are divided.
Unbelieving Gentiles are divided.

Further...Jesus Expressly revealed, a Division of people, Unto Himself, Of men OF the World, Transformed BY, THROUGH, OF the Lords Works of CONVERSION, wholly, (body, soul, spirit), that once and forever are Separated FROM all men "OF" the World.

However...They are NOT YET, manifested, Separated FROM all men "IN" the World.

Before quick judgement. Not every individual "separated FROM "of" the world"... are at the same Distance or Maturity in their journey. They are NOT prepared for an overload of "MEAT".

It is not secret, modern teaching, via, schools, parents, skim World history, American history...which disadvantages the student, to recognize the day to day repetative negative history unfolding before their eyes.
And the same applies to Gospel Truths, which are world wide consistently being oppressed, silenced, undermined with exalting philosophies, toys, gadgets, propaganda and freebie scraps, to tickle their ears and be thrilled with the scraps.

There ARE people ON this forum who ARE wearing the same "title", YET are Divided. Observe, You will know them by their fruits.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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GRACE ambassador

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Not every individual "separated FROM "of" the world"... are at the same Distance or Maturity in their journey. They are NOT prepared for an overload of "MEAT".
Amen, Precious friend! How MANY babes In CHRIST Today, are floundering in all
the Confusion of UNsound doctrines, and CHOCKING "on The MEAT," being "FORCE-fed to them WAY TOO SOON! :(
 
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Taken

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Amen, Precious friend! How MANY babes In CHRIST Today, are floundering in all
the Confusion of UNsound doctrines, and CHOCKING "on The MEAT," being "FORCE-fed to them WAY TOO SOON! :(

And the horrid teaching of communism and telling the kids to hide the materials from their parents. :eek: