Think about it: "No man can buy or sell"

FluffyYellowDuck said:

Do you think so? I am under the impression we're not even past Rev 7 and I think the warnings in the Bible are for the left behind given a second chance.

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I think we have a long ways to go yet. People get mad at me when I say most people alive today will not live to see the Lord's return, but I say it anyway.

As for the left behind, that would take getting into a ton of prophecy. All I will say is that there is every indication from scripture that the church will need to have her armor on until the Lord returns.

4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day... since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of deliverance as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath, but to receive deliverance through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:4-9)

This passage means that until the day the Lord returns we will have to remain ready to fight and if necessary die for our faith. This will hold true even if the pre-tribulation rapture theory were correct (which it isn't), because persecution will precede the arrival of the Antichrist anyway, not just begin when he gets here. Persecution is likely to increase across the planet in the next few years again, because the powers that be are back in charge of the US military, and instead of resisting it will likely empower it behind the scenes. One way or another, expect persecution to increase eventually, and expect the church to have to stand and fight, not get delivered out before they have to. We have a long way to go, but things won't be getting better from here; they will very likely be getting worse, barring some unforeseen prayer campaign that God spare us from what is now coming.

FYD, one of the end times shriekers may come in here and start hollering you’re deluded by the devil. We just laugh at them. They’re very sure of themselves. Lol.

FluffyYellowDuck said:

See I've considered something sort of like that, however, Rev 7 is all Christians with the Lord already before those things come to pass.

After this, we see the trumpets and the other things.

The end is the in Heaven, judgment, New Jerusalem, all of that stuff.

Which hasn't happened yet, we are all here, so I believe it is literal.

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Consider this fluffy; if one insists on ones paradigm and that paradigm is actually in error, God will not force ones understanding....it will remain in error.
Example; the religious in Jesus day didn't see Jesus as the Messiah because their paradigm didn't allow it. There is no reason for that principle to be different today.

One verse talks about all those who love His coming.
Another tells men not to wish for that day, it will be awful.

They are separate things and times being spoken of. You have to be able to divide scripture.
I always ask, hmmm…are there any clues if this verse is talking about pre gathering together, post gathering together, premillenium, during millennium, or after millennium?

quietthinker said:

Consider this fluffy; if one insists on ones paradigm and that paradigm is actually in error, God will not force ones understanding....it will remain in error.

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I think God teaches His children. I don't think He gave us birth so that we can remain babies.

Much love!

FluffyYellowDuck said:

I want to mention too, because I think it is so important, read the end paragraph of Rev 6, and then go into Rev 7 and read through.

It is a sudden "Here is God's wrath" and then nothing in between that and Heaven.

Absolutely nothing, but it is written in a way as if you can see the instant flash of change through sudden abrupt change of events, as if the change is instantaneous.

Like a flash and then we're okay. But the rest of the book flows with great detail and clear movement.

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As if the change is instantaneous, like in the twinkling of an eye?

In rev, it shows two reapings. One doesn’t really give detail, but the second one sounds terrifying.
I think the first is our gathering, righteous removed, and the second is where the wicked are removed.

Until I came to that, I was always asking, well which is it? Are the righteous removed or are the wicked removed?? Because one verse says wicked and another says righteous!!

Dividing scripture.

Another dividing of scripture is knowing which verses are speaking of righteousness and which verses are speaking of holiness.

otherwise, you will be confused and terrified asking why God struck Ananias and Sephira dead and why He killed Uzzah.

stunnedbygrace said:

In rev, it shows two reapings. One doesn’t really give detail, but the second one sounds terrifying.
I think the first is our gathering, righteous removed, and the second is where the wicked are removed.

Until I came to that, I was always asking, well which is it? Are the righteous removed or are the wicked removed?? Because one says wicked and another says righteous!!

Dividing scripture.

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Paying attention to little details like that is a real advantage!

Much love!

marks said:

Paying attention to little details like that is a real advantage!

Much love!

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Our biggest clue about dividing scripture came from our Lord when He stood and read from Isaiah!

If any verse confuses or scares me or makes me think I do not understand anything, I always go back to dividing.

Okay fair enough, @FluffyYellowDuck it leaves me out of the ability to be in the fold of this type of belief and should focus on other things.

There are many scriptures that would suggest the calling of all these things was for them then.

Like said; I’ll have to focus on other things. All is know for the most part is there is this here.

Hebrews 10:15-25;1 Corinthians 15:1-11; Romans 1:1-17.

The power of God to Salvation is the Gospel of Christ his death, burial, and resurrection, and I believe Jesus had the victory over death, hell, Satan, and sin. It’s great news to me, and Jesus’s death is accredited to all people even those you do not believe.

All will be raised again and judged according to what God sees in their hearts.

Many will say on that day they never sinned, or that they believed Jesus was a good man, good teacher, many will say that they did this and that for the Lord… (being placed outside the kingdom according to revelation 22) when you all get there.

The key is to me personally, it’s all about Jesus and everything he had done. (Especially being resurrected).

You all take care, cause I can’t be part of these conversations unfortunately until the day I get revelation completely down. I don’t believe one should take everything literally but in between literal and figurative.

With love,
Matthew G.

stunnedbygrace said:

If any verse confuses or scares me or makes me think I do not understand anything, I always go back to dividing.

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I think of Paul writing, "rightly dividing the Word of God", the word there means, make a straight cut, and Paul was a tent maker. I know if you want the tent to be square, all the pieces have to be right.

Much love!

stunnedbygrace said:

Another dividing of scripture is knowing which verses are speaking of righteousness and which verses are speaking of holiness.

otherwise, you will be confused and terrified asking why God struck Ananias and Sephira dead and why He killed Uzzah.

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I'd like to discuss this with you sometime if you're interested.

I find a great deal of overlap in these concepts, righteousness and holiness, and I'm interested in your thoughts.

Much love!

bbyrd009 said:

what if that spider thought you were roommates, and his job was keeping the place mite-free lol

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@marks what is righteousness and holiness mean to you?