Sin & Death

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Alethos

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Mar 8, 2011
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How about I show you your comments that imply that Jesus is sinful?

You really don’t want to go to Rom 6:10,11; 2 Cor 5:21 do you? I am guessing you would be prepared to even look like a fool than speak to these verses?

The Bible speaks a lot about fools we have the rich fool Luke 12:20. The unbelieving fool Psa 53:1 (strong resemblance). The self-righteous fool Prov 28:26. And the scornful fool Prov 14:9.

So far based on my questions to you and your reluctance to answer Psa 53:1 mixed with Prov 14:9???

Can you redeem yourself from foolishness by showing an understanding of Rom 6:10,11 & 2 Cor 5:21

Waiting....
 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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You really don’t want to go to Rom 6:10,11; 2 Cor 5:21 do you? I am guessing you would be prepared to even look like a fool than speak to these verses?The Bible speaks a lot about fools we have the rich fool Luke 12:20. The unbelieving fool Psa 53:1 (strong resemblance). The self-righteous fool Prov 28:26. And the scornful fool Prov 14:9.So far based on my questions to you and your reluctance to answer Psa 53:1 mixed with Prov 14:9???Can you redeem yourself from foolishness by showing an understanding of Rom 6:10,11 & 2 Cor 5:21Waiting....
My Jesus wasn't sinful. You clearly have a different savior. You have bent over backwards trying to prove Jesus was sinful.
 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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If you go over your comments you are the only one saying Jesus is sin-ful!
You wrote:

"Christian today struggle to realise that Sin had a hold of Jesus “in” his nature, whereby he inherited from Adam the sentence of death."

 

Alethos

New Member
Mar 8, 2011
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Melbourne Australia

You wrote:
"Christian today struggle to realise that Sin had a hold of Jesus “in” his nature, whereby he inherited from Adam the sentence of death."


:rolleyes: Truth is "in" his nature!!:rolleyes:

Now you have a starting point Ducky talk to me about Rom 6:9,10,11 & 2 Cor 5:21

Talk to me about those verse which frighten you.

Alethos

p.s I am preparing a study on these verses just in case you decide to keep running from truth.
 

Alethos

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Mar 8, 2011
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Melbourne Australia
Rom 6:10,11

We know Jesus had the same sinful nature as all mankind (Rom 8:3), however he never committed sin in the flesh, what we mean by that is he never did any sin of his own volition in his own body. But his flesh was still an offense to God and needed removing both from His son and from the world.

This act was done once for all or as the AV simply, "once" however the (Greek = ephapax) means literally, "once for all"!!!! Once was all that was required for all those who had gone before him and all those beyond his ascension. Jesus is the High Priest who on the Day of Atonement offered up every year two sacrifices, one for himself and one for the people he represented.

Have you heard in the Scripture where it states he made a sacrifice ONE for himself?

See Heb 7:27

This offering was both for himself and for all mankind, being there representative.

"And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Heb 10:10 also compare Heb 9:12,26).

Amazing contrast with “died to sin”!!! Jesus gained the victory over the power (devil) Sin in his resurrection, 'by the glory of the Father",

Christ now lives eternally (no prior existence) in the service of his Father "as a priest FOREVER after the order of Melchizedek" (Heb 7:21-24).

Thats right Jesus is one of Gods priests..but not God.

As a side note the term “in Christ Jesus” who is our the "head" (Col 1:18), he has now been “made” the mediator by which we live to God

"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me" (Gal 2:20; compare with Phi 1:11).

I know...He is the Son of God

Alethos

Cont....

So how do you approach One who is beyond our comprehension, who is surrounded with unapproachable light with such power and might that He considers Himself a great King, not of the world but everything in Heaven and beyond the Heavens.

"I (God) am a great King."

He forgives and has made possible through His forbearance a people who can bend the knee before His presence. When one study’s the life of His son we begin to appreciate how kindness and justice come together in His son. Every good thing has been placed in Jesus.

The teaching of “substitution” cannot declare Gods wisdom and righteousness!

Would it be right to put to death one that was not under its power?

Imagine if God put to death his son when he could not die?

If you have read this to this point – you should be able to comprehend the issues that are present...

"I (God) will allow you go free...if that man (Jesus) will die?"

What would be achieved in Jesus if he wasn’t under death dominion (Rom 6:10,22)?

That’s right... Nothing!

The great kindness and wisdom of God is darkened if Jesus didn’t suffer in the flesh, he if didn’t truly die and if he couldn’t sin nor be tempted to sin.

However, the Bible speaks of a great triumph? In fact the greatest the world has ever been witnessed too. The errorists cannot explain that victory; for they hold such deep falsehood they cannot describe the greatness of death and sin being nailed to a tree.

If you will acknowledge your sinful position and repent, and come under Jesus’ wing, I (God) will receive you back in favour and give you forgiveness. My righteousness is declared in Jesus; I have crowned Jesus with everlasting days; because Jesus loved righteousness and hated sin, and was obedient even unto death, I have crowned Jesus with eternal life. Submit and believe in Jesus and put on his name through Baptism, in doing so we confess to have no name but Jesus. Obey Jesus commandments and I will accept you for his sake, and you will be my sons and daughters.

The blood of Christ is the most precious substance in all the earth and nothing can be compared to its implied significance.

To be forgiven as we spiritually come into contact with his blood by the new covenant which is placed in his blood. To be cleansed from sin and be forgiven by God has all taken place in Christ,

Baptism into his death and resurrection allows ....If we walk in the light the blood of Christ cleanseth us from all sin".

If we chose not walk in the light, the blood of Christ has no power to cleanse and save regardless of how morally good you may think yourself to be, if you are not in the divine new covenant in the Blood of Christ you are none of His.

The Blood is in operation when faith is exercised and the reconciliation between God and us can only take place where faith is acted upon.

 

Alethos

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Mar 8, 2011
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Melbourne Australia

He chose to die for us. He didn't have to. You are dead wrong.

Ok so I have you on record saying that Jesus gain no benefit "at all" from his death.

Lets leave it there for now and wait for others to review the evidence/scriptures.

You may not understand how serious your answer is and maybe in time this will become evident.

Alethos
 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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Ok so I have you on record saying that Jesus gain no benefit "at all" from his death.

Lets leave it there for now and wait for others to review the evidence/scriptures.

You may not understand how serious your answer is and maybe in time this will become evident.
Oh I do indeed understand. That's why I dispute your accusations of Jesus being sinful. He was without blemish or spot.

1 Peter 1:18-19 (ESV)
[sup]18 [/sup]knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, [sup]19 [/sup]but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
 

Alethos

New Member
Mar 8, 2011
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Melbourne Australia

Oh I do indeed understand. That's why I dispute your accusations of Jesus being sinful. He was without blemish or spot.

1 Peter 1:18-19 (ESV)
[sup]18 [/sup]knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, [sup]19 [/sup]but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

Ducky you dont know what you are talking about "clouds without water"

Explain Rom 6:9,10,11 & 2 Cor 5:21

I have never meet a man who confesses to believe the Bible be so scared of 4 verses!

Your peers have not come to your aid, you are left abandoned in a sea of confusion and all you are left with is 4 short verses Rom 6:9,10,11 & 2 Cor 5:21.

Waiting Ducky...we must be up to at least 13 requests.

Many here will start to think...what is Ducky hidding from?

I know I am.

Alethos
 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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Ducky you dont know what you are talking about "clouds without water"

Explain Rom 6:9,10,11 & 2 Cor 5:21

I have never meet a man who confesses to believe the Bible be so scared of 4 verses!

Your peers have not come to your aid, you are left abandoned in a sea of confusion and all you are left with is 4 short verses Rom 6:9,10,11 & 2 Cor 5:21.

Waiting Ducky...we must be up to at least 13 requests.

Many here will start to think...what is Ducky hidding from?

I know I am.
Well I don't know what "hidding" means but you are again slinging personal insults because you are desperate.

 

Clarity

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Mar 30, 2011
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It seems to me that we need to be very careful when reading and parsing people's posts.

If I read you correctly and carefully Alethos, you are not saying that Jesus was a 'sinner' but that he inherited a nature capable of sinning and liable to death?

That seems to me to be an important distinction and one to carefully note.

There are verses which very clearly say Christ shared our nature (which we know only too well is certainly capable of sinning) and yet verses which are very clear that Christ never once gave into temptation. He maintained moral perfection and purity all his life. He was not a 'sinner'.

Have I got that right?
I'm tempted to withdraw to 'lurker status' once again. :)
 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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There are verses which very clearly say Christ shared our nature (which we know only too well is certainly capable of sinning) and yet verses which are very clear that Christ never once gave into temptation. He maintained moral perfection and purity all his life. He was not a 'sinner'.
Jesus shared our natures? Are we not sinners? 'Truth' has clearly said that Jesus would have died even if He hadn't been crucified, which would make Him a sinner. I have studied this heresy for MANY years. "The wages of sin is death".

 

Clarity

New Member
Mar 30, 2011
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Jesus shared our natures? Are we not sinners? 'Truth' has clearly said that Jesus would have died even if He hadn't been crucified, which would make Him a sinner. I have studied this heresy for MANY years. "The wages of sin is death".

Hi Ducky,
I respectfully submit that its not that simple. You are correct that we are sinners, but it is a logical fallacy to argue:
We are sinners + Jesus shared our nature = Jesus is also a sinner.

If I read the thread correctly, this is not the position that is being advanced.
 

Alethos

New Member
Mar 8, 2011
685
4
0
Melbourne Australia
It seems to me that we need to be very careful when reading and parsing people's posts.

If I read you correctly and carefully Alethos, you are not saying that Jesus was a 'sinner' but that he inherited a nature capable of sinning and liable to death?

That seems to me to be an important distinction and one to carefully note.

There are verses which very clearly say Christ shared our nature (which we know only too well is certainly capable of sinning) and yet verses which are very clear that Christ never once gave into temptation. He maintained moral perfection and purity all his life. He was not a 'sinner'.

Have I got that right?
I'm tempted to withdraw to 'lurker status' once again. :)

Correct. Rom 8:3 Heb 2:14,15 Rom 6:9,10,11 & 2 Cor 5:21 all suggest he shared a nature capable of sin.

Alethos
 

Duckybill

New Member
Feb 12, 2010
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Hi Ducky,
I respectfully submit that its not that simple. You are correct that we are sinners, but it is a logical fallacy to argue:
We are sinners + Jesus shared our nature = Jesus is also a sinner.
True, but 'truth's' other comments would make Jesus a sinner.
If I read the thread correctly, this is not the position that is being advanced.
I listed a few of his comments in the Romans 6:9-11 thread. They should nauseate a Christian.