What sort of assumption makes one think.......

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marks

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Don't you find it strange that the God who is portrayed wholesale in Christian circles as loving does not get rid of Satan at the outset of his rebellion and when Adam and Eve blew it tipping all their progeny into misery and death for eating one fruit.....how easily we can rationalise and arrange our thinking to see and believe the slaughter of babies to be mercy?

What has the evil one done to our heads?? ....even those who claim a God who condescends to become a creature to the point of giving his own life. There is not one pagan deity who would even imagine giving their life for the enemy!! Think about it!
I've thought about this a lot, and I sincerely think you are sincerely in error.

God will judge His creation, this is clear throughout the Bible. I don't know why you don't think He has both the right and the willingness.

Having given His life for those who were and are His enemies.

I find this to be the greatest love story every, and you seem to be missing the heart of it.

It's all wrapped up in a God Who created something - someones - who He absolutely loves! And if you fight Him over His children . . . look out!

Much love!
 

APAK

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Hi quietthinker,

I would think such a view of God is a terrible theological position, and one not supported by any good Christian or Jewish scholar.

Of course it is this terrible (and frankly insulting) view of God that leads to the penal substituion theory of the Atonement of Christ's Blood.. that the Father had to pour out His wrath on the Son...

Rather, it was Jesus' perfect obedience to the Father's will that MERITS for us eternal life.. BY His self-sacrifice redeeming the whole world!

Pax et Bonum!
Happy to see your postings again...just got back in on the site then?...I hope all is well with you and loved ones...
 
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quietthinker

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Jesus will do the killing.

Revelation 19:11-21 KJV
11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18) That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19) And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21) And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Our King is a Mighty Warrior, Who both judges and makes war.

Much love!
consider this....when Moses came off the mountain with face glowing the people freaked. Was it Moses who made them freak or was it their own inner condemnation which created the panic?
After you have answered this for yourself Mark, read the texts you have quoted above in that light.

It was the furthest thing from Moses' mind to make the people panic....in fact he was oblivious to his glowing face.
Put the blame where the blame belongs.

Who gathers together who to make war against him who sat on the horse in your texts above? Wickedness interpreted goodness as evil and threatening....it was like that with Cain and Able....it was like that in the life of Jesus .....it will be like that at the end of time.

The armies of heaven are clothed in white linen, representative of righteousness.....does righteousness slaughter?
He that sat on the horse.... whose blood is it that his robe is dipped in and why is it dipped? did he cut himself for dramatic effect or did others make him bleed?

Jesus makes war but not with carnal weapons, not with hate and killing and slaughter.....he make war using the strongest element...love. (as depicted by 'rod of iron' which was the strongest known to man at the time)

Satan is a defeated foe....and how was he defeated? by blazing guns and flashing swords...by the force of domination? no no no...Satan was outwitted when Jesus surrendered his life.....Satan was defeated by the strongest thing in the Universe.....a love unparalleled.

again I ask, reread your quoted texts from the perspective of Jesus being the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
 
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Curtis

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Jesus makes war but not with carnal weapons, not with hate and killing and slaughter.....he make war using the strongest element...love. (as depicted by 'rod of iron' which was the strongest known to man at the time)
That’s absolutely not what the Bible clearly says happens at Jesus’ second coming.

If you’re not a universalist yet, you’re well on your way to being one.

The Greek Orthodox Church has decided God has no wrath to be saved from, which is absolutely unbiblical as can be.

They’ve become universalists and you sound a lot like them.
 
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quietthinker

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We all know that after Noah's flood, all living things on the earth were destroyed including the Nephilim from Genesis 6:4. It is presumed that one of the reasons God destroyed the earth was because of this Nephilim, their offspring and also the wickedness of that generation except for eight people in Noah's family and the animals and birds in the Ark. However, in Numbers 13:33 the Nephilim reappeared and Israel is terrified of them.

What may have looked like to us indiscriminate killing post the flood is attributed to our own lack of knowledge. I once heard Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel many years ago outline a likely reason for the death and total destruction of certain peoples and tribes/groups including their children many years after the flood. Based upon what we know via Numbers 13:33 it's possible that corrupted genetics (Fallen Angels + Humans = Nephilim) were still active in certain groups of people and in God's wisdom he used the Israelites to destroy those peoples. I trust no matter what the reason it's our lack of knowledge that contributes to our questions on the matter.
God knew the flood was coming....he made provision for saving any who would enter the ark...Noah preached 120 yrs to that end.
Why would God commission a method of saving any who choose if he intended to destroy them?
 

Ferris Bueller

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Third option, ridicule someone who disagrees?

Did not God command killing the false prophet that led Israel away from God? Did not Elijah keep that command in killing the 450 prophets of Ba'al?

I see obedience to God's command. I don't see this as making some assumption that Elijah was approved by God. God Himself said to do it.

How exactly does three pages of typing change that?

Where it the contradiction? God tells His people to destroy those who are destroying His people. I don't see a contradiction.

Much love!
Reminds me of this:

"By lying to My people who would listen, you have killed those who should not have died and spared those who should not have lived." Ezekiel 13:19
 

Ferris Bueller

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Justice, administered by those who have the authority to administer it, is not murder, either.
3For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval. 4For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not carry the sword in vain. He is God’s servant, an agent of retribution to the wrongdoer." Romans 13:3-4
 

Grailhunter

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God knew the flood was coming....he made provision for saving any who would enter the ark...Noah preached 120 yrs to that end.
Why would God commission a method of saving any who choose if he intended to destroy them?

I heard a cute joke about Noah's Ark the other day.

Someone asked what did they feed the lions on the Ark? (all the carnivores)
Answer; The floating dead bodies of sinners.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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He that sat on the horse.... whose blood is it that his robe is dipped in and why is it dipped? did he cut himself for dramatic effect or did others make him bleed?
I think that's the blood of those that were tread in the winepress of God's wrath. It got on his clothing. Revelation 19:13-15
 

quietthinker

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I've thought about this a lot, and I sincerely think you are sincerely in error.

God will judge His creation, this is clear throughout the Bible. I don't know why you don't think He has both the right and the willingness.

Having given His life for those who were and are His enemies.

I find this to be the greatest love story every, and you seem to be missing the heart of it.

It's all wrapped up in a God Who created something - someones - who He absolutely loves! And if you fight Him over His children . . . look out!

Much love!
The issue/s at stake marks are the representation of God.
Do we represent him as portrayed in the life, the reality and words of Jesus or do we present him as Satan would have us represent him or more accurately, misrepresent him?
 
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marks

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The issue/s at stake marks are the representation of God.
Do we represent him as portrayed in the life, the reality and words of Jesus or do we present him as Satan would have us represent him or more accurately, misrepresent him?
Yes, and that's the issue, how we represent God. Or more to the point, are we allowing for a complete Scriptural representation? It seems you don't allow God the right to judge His creation, and I think that's a major issue.

Much love!
 

quietthinker

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Why not? It would seem to me the only sensible position given your argument.

Much love!
At the end of the day, Lucifer, his hordes including unrepentant mankind will destroy themselves....that is the trajectory. Ezekiel 28:18
 

marks

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After you have answered this for yourself Mark, read the texts you have quoted above in that light.

Revelation 19:21 KJV
21) And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

They just all throw themselves upon His sword?

That the wicked all die because Jesus is there, but He doesn't do it?

Check out Ezekiel 9 . . . start here at My house . . . slay the all who are not marked . . .

Much love!
 

quietthinker

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Yes, and that's the issue, how we represent God. Or more to the point, are we allowing for a complete Scriptural representation? It seems you don't allow God the right to judge His creation, and I think that's a major issue.

Much love!
The world was judged in Jesus.
 

quietthinker

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Revelation 19:21 KJV
21) And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

They just all throw themselves upon His sword?

That the wicked all die because Jesus is there, but He doesn't do it?

Check out Ezekiel 9 . . . start here at My house . . . slay the all who are not marked . . .

Much love!
Sword, as you know is not a reference to a blade of steel.....if it were he could have at least used a laser
 

quietthinker

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I heard a cute joke about Noah's Ark the other day.

Someone asked what did they feed the lions on the Ark? (all the carnivores)
Answer; The floating dead bodies of sinners.
I see you've sidestepped the question