War in heaven

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1stCenturyLady

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Revelation 12:
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

1. Of all the angels, why was it Michael who fought Satan and threw him and his angels out of heaven?
2. Did this happen before creation week? If not, when did it happen, or when will it happen?
3. Does Satan and his angels still have access to God's throne?
4. In context what is chapter 12 and 13 about? That may help answer these questions.
 

teamventure

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I just had a thread about this passage, asking how this event relates to the marriage supper. I'm interested in this.

1. It is Michael because he is the highest ranking war angel.
2. No this event is future and will happen right before the 70th week of Daniel.
3. At this point yes they have access as it says Jesus is advocating for us infront of the accuser.
4. The mark of the beast from ch.13 will be what satan impliments once he's cast down to earth.

Shalom!
 

quietthinker

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I just had a thread about this passage, asking how this event relates to the marriage supper. I'm interested in this.

1. It is Michael because he is the highest ranking war angel.
2. No this event is future and will happen right before the 70th week of Daniel.
3. At this point yes they have access as it says Jesus is advocating for us infront of the accuser.
4. The mark of the beast from ch.13 will be what satan impliments once he's cast down to earth.

Shalom!
lol
 

Curtis

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I just had a thread about this passage, asking how this event relates to the marriage supper. I'm interested in this.

1. It is Michael because he is the highest ranking war angel.
2. No this event is future and will happen right before the 70th week of Daniel.
3. At this point yes they have access as it says Jesus is advocating for us infront of the accuser.
4. The mark of the beast from ch.13 will be what satan impliments once he's cast down to earth.

Shalom!
Revelation 12 is mid trib, it’s those in Judea fleeing the son of perdition from the middle of Daniels 70th week, (found also in Matthew 24:15), and the woman flees into the desert for 42 months, 3.5 years.

Satan is cast down, possesses the man who is called the antichrist who’s been killed, brings him to life filled with satanic power, and gives the mark for 42 months, plus he has power to kill the two witnesses whom no man could kill.

IMO.

Maranatha
 
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1stCenturyLady

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Revelation 12 is mid trib, it’s those in Judea fleeing the son of perdition from the middle of Daniels 70th week, (found also in Matthew 24:15), and the woman flees into the desert for 42 months, 3.5 years.

Satan is cast down, possesses the man who is called the antichrist who’s been killed, brings him to life filled with satanic power, and gives the mark for 42 months, plus he has power to kill the two witnesses whom no man could kill.

IMO.

Maranatha
Hi Curtis

Revelation 12 is the First half, and the second half (mid) is Revelation 13 (allowed to "continue for 42 months).
 

Truth7t7

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Hi Curtis

Revelation 12 is the First half, and the second half (mid) is Revelation 13 (allowed to "continue for 42 months).
There is a future 3.5 year tribulation seen in scripture, that will start with the (Man of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist) being revealed in Jerusalem
 

Truth7t7

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Revelation 12 is mid trib, it’s those in Judea fleeing the son of perdition from the middle of Daniels 70th week, (found also in Matthew 24:15), and the woman flees into the desert for 42 months, 3.5 years.

Satan is cast down, possesses the man who is called the antichrist who’s been killed, brings him to life filled with satanic power, and gives the mark for 42 months, plus he has power to kill the two witnesses whom no man could kill.

IMO.

Maranatha
There is a future 3.5 year tribulation seen in scripture, that will start with the (Man of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist) being revealed in Jerusalem

The two Witnesses 1260 days, and the beast 42 months are "Parallel" time frames, as the two Witnesses of Revelation 11 will be present on earth with the beast
 
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1stCenturyLady

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There is a future 3.5 year tribulation seen in scripture, that will start with the (Man of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist) being revealed in Jerusalem

Yes, that is not for Jews who are then being saved, but for those in the church who have yet to overcome. See Revelation 2 and 3. They are called "the rest of her offspring" in Rev. 12, and is the first half of the GT. But then in Rev. 13, the beast continues for the second half of the 7 year tribulation for both new Jews and Gentiles already in the Church up until the beginning of the GT. Only Jews get newly saved during the GT. No new Gentiles.
 

farouk

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Revelation 12:
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

1. Of all the angels, why was it Michael who fought Satan and threw him and his angels out of heaven?
2. Did this happen before creation week? If not, when did it happen, or when will it happen?
3. Does Satan and his angels still have access to God's throne?
4. In context what is chapter 12 and 13 about? That may help answer these questions.
@1stCenturyLady Good indeed to know of the Victory of the risen Lord Jesus, made good to His people by faith.
 

Truth7t7

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Yes, that is not for Jews who are then being saved, but for those in the church who have yet to overcome. See Revelation 2 and 3. They are called "the rest of her offspring" in Rev. 12, and is the first half of the GT. But then in Rev. 13, the beast continues for the second half of the 7 year tribulation for both new Jews and Gentiles already in the Church up until the beginning of the GT. Only Jews get newly saved during the GT. No new Gentiles.
A 7 year tribulation is found no place in scripture, the 1260 days of the two witnesses Revelation 11:3 and the 42 months of the Beast Revelation 13:5 are "parallel times" not chronological, and this time is 3.5 years, that will start with the (Man of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist) being revealed in Jerusalem

Once again a 7 year tribulation is found no place in scripture
 
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1stCenturyLady

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A 7 year tribulation is found no place in scripture, the 1260 days of the two witnesses Revelation 11:3 and the 42 months of the Beast Revelation 13:5 are "parallel times" not chronological, and this time is 3.5 years, that will start with the (Man of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist) being revealed in Jerusalem

Once again a 7 year tribulation is found no place in scripture

No they are not parallel. It clearly says "CONTINUE for another 42 months." After what? The first time, times and half a time.

This was the third and last 7 year period of tribulation for the Jews. Hitler doesn't count because there was no temple involved. I also don't know how many years was against the Jews and if there were any markings of similarities.
 

farouk

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No they are not parallel. It clearly says "CONTINUE for another 42 months." After what? The first time, times and half a time.

This was the third and last 7 year period of tribulation for the Jews. Hitler doesn't count because there was no temple involved. I also don't know how many years was against the Jews and if there were any markings of similarities.
@1stCenturyLady Hitler was indeed awful but he doesn't feature in the Bible.
 

Truth7t7

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No they are not parallel. It clearly says "CONTINUE for another 42 months." After what? The first time, times and half a time.

This was the third and last 7 year period of tribulation for the Jews. Hitler doesn't count because there was no temple involved. I also don't know how many years was against the Jews and if there were any markings of similarities.
The two witnesses are given 1260 days or 3.5 years

You will closely note in verse 13 below (The Same Hour) the two Witnesses are raised to heaven the 2nd woe takes place in the great earthquake

The 3rd woe comes quickly in verse 14-15 in the 7th angel sounding (The End)

Verse 18 is the (Final Judgement)

Revelation 11:3-18KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
 

Curtis

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There is a future 3.5 year tribulation seen in scripture, that will start with the (Man of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist) being revealed in Jerusalem

The two Witnesses 1260 days, and the beast 42 months are "Parallel" time frames, as the two Witnesses of Revelation 11 will be present on earth with the beast

The two witnesses are in the first half of the tribulation - when Satan is cast down is when the great trib starts - he possesses the antichrist, gives him power to kill them, which no mere man could do, (and they tried to kill them for 3.5 years) - and when they are raised from the dead, the resurrection and mid trib rapture occurs too.

IMO, which is most likely correct.
 

Curtis

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Hi Curtis

Revelation 12 is the First half, and the second half (mid) is Revelation 13 (allowed to "continue for 42 months).

No, Israel doesn’t run and hide from the dragon for 3.5 years during the General trib, then come out of hiding just in time for the great tribulation - that makes absolutely no sense.

Rev 12:6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days. (3.5 years).

They flee into the desert when the mid trib abomination of desolation occurs, per the warnings of Jesus, and after 3.5 years of hiding, the tribulation is over, they don’t need to hide then.

Maranatha
 

1stCenturyLady

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The two witnesses are given 1260 days or 3.5 years

You will closely note in verse 13 below (The Same Hour) the two Witnesses are raised to heaven the 2nd woe takes place in the great earthquake

The 3rd woe comes quickly in verse 14-15 in the 7th angel sounding (The End)

Verse 18 is the (Final Judgement)

Revelation 11:3-18KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Yes, that particular 1260 days IS parallel with one of the halves. But is it the first half, or the second half? I believe the second half off the top of my head.