"Milk" is Doctrine, "Meat" is.....?

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David H.

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As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 1 Peter 2:2

Milk are the basic doctrines of Salvation that all believers know. This milk causes division as we see in the church today and throughout history, and this was and still is what God designed into the church so as to get them to move from milk to meat.

Few understand what the meat of the Word is or means. The writer of Hebrews equates the meat with the "word of righteousness" (Hebrews 5:12-13)

The Word of Righteousness lays aside the divisions in the church (Which again are God ordained that we should learn to digest the meat of the Word), Which in turn will lead to the church being of one accord.

This process is outlined In Ephesians 4:11-16 Speaking of the "being tossed to and fro by the wind of doctrine" that so many in the Body of Christ experience especially on forums such as this when two sides are presented with strong arguments for and against them.

Again, these divisions are not a "Bad thing", but rather a part of our maturation.... they being God ordained. The Problem is many never grow beyond this milk of doctrine and the continual carnality that perpetuates these divisions, as the writer of Hebrews in the above verses complained about, and Paul complained about in 1 Corinthians 3:1-4.

What does the Meat of the Word mean to you and how does one begin to digest that meat?
Is there a certain realization or experience that moves us from Milk to meat? A condition in mankind that is prone to division that must be overcome? If so explain.

I Leave this open ended in order to show how there are various ways that we reach this point, and I Hope to get a range of answers here which we can then begin to see a commonality to them all.
 
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marks

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In my opinion, the meat is moving on from belieiving and salvation to working out that salvation.

In other words, Milk is the gospel, Meat is sanctification and walking with God.

Absolutely! We really don't have to wonder about what this means, we have the Scriptures!

:)

Hebrews 5:12-14 KJV
12) For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13) For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14) But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

When we use what we learn - "by reason of use", it exercises our senses to tell the difference between good and evil, and we become meat eaters. As we do the part we know, we become more able to know what's right and wrong, and become skilful in the word of righteousness.

Much love!
 
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Hidden In Him

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Few understand what the meat of the Word is or means. The writer of Hebrews equates the meat with the "word of righteousness" (Hebrews 5:12-13)

Greetings, David.

I agree with you that the "word of righteousness" (i.e. the teaching on righteousness) is the meat of the word here, although I think it involves more than simply walking in peace and avoiding divisions. I think the expression "meat of the word" relates specifically to those parts of Christian teaching that are the "toughest" to swallow, and by that I mean the teachings on enduring afflictions, trials, sufferings and persecution for Christ's sake, to reign together with Him in eternity (2 Timothy 2:10-12).

It is summarized more clearly in Chapter 10:

32 But recall the former days in which, after you were enlightened, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: 33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and afflictions, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; 34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: 37 “For yet a little while, and He who is coming will come and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith. But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.” 39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:32-39)

As for the context of Hebrews 5, in previous Chapters the writer is comparing the New Testament saints "sojourn" to Heaven with the Israelites sojourn to the promised land, (i.e. the "rest" of God he is referring to in both these instances). Thus, he starts off Chapter 4 as follows:

1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them (the unbelieving Jews), but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said, “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.” 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disbelief, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said, “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” (Hebrews 4:1-7)

Why did the Israelites harden their hearts and not enter in? Because they feared for their lives, knowing giants were in the land. Thus, the teaching here was simple: New Testament believers, if they would enter into the TRUE promised land which the holy land only typified, needed to believe God and NOT fear for their lives as the faithless Israelites did, but if necessary endure afflictions and persecution for His name's sake. God was angry with the cowardice and faithlessness exhibited by the Israelites who would not enter in, and therefore swore in His wrath that they would not, even after they witnessed His power in manifestation. Thus, the writer was saying that we must not fall away in similar fear of what the enemy might do to us (more specifically to our flesh). This is why he will go on to say in Chapter 6:

1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. (Hebrews 6:1-8)

Thus, living out the gospel involves not just baptisms or laying on of hands to receive anointings and outpourings (the "milk" of Christian teaching). It must also involve teachings on enduring persecution and affliction in preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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marks

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I think the expression "meat of the word" relates specifically to those parts of Christian teaching that are the "toughest" to swallow, and by that I mean the teachings on enduring afflictions, trials, sufferings and persecution for Christ's sake, to reign together with Him in eternity (2 Timothy 2:10-12).
I would add to this overcoming the more difficult aspects of the flesh, and learning to identify what actually is fleshy and what is Spirit.

Being willing to honestly allow the Scriptures to reveal us to ourselves, we'll come to know ourselves better through the eyes of Scripture.

I think this really applies across our lives. As we are willing to take the next step, God let's us see the one after that.

Much love!
 
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Hidden In Him

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I would add to this overcoming the more difficult aspects of the flesh.


In a sense, yes, because enduring afflictions is only part of the overarching term "the crucifixion of the flesh." Fastings, for instance, are simply another form of enduring sufferings for the Lord's sake.
 

marks

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1 Peter 2:1-3 KJV
1) Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2) As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3) If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

If we are like verse 1, therein is division. The works of the flesh.

In growing by "the sincere milk of the word", we mature into unity, growing in "the faith and knowledge of the Son of God".

Much love!
 
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marks

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The Problem is many never grow beyond this milk of doctrine and the continual carnality that perpetuates these divisions,
What would you say contributes the most to these divisions? What I mean is, what do you think it is that people actually do towards creating division?

Much love!
 
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amadeus

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Has the movement from milk to meat begun when the principle doctrines are in place and the journey toward the perfection is in progress?

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again

[1] the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of
[2] faith toward God, Of the
[3] doctrine of baptisms, and of
[4] laying on of hands, and of
[5] resurrection of the dead, and of
[6] eternal judgment.

And this will we do, if God permit." Heb 6:1-3
 

Hidden In Him

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1 Peter 2:1-3 KJV
1) Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2) As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3) If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

If we are like verse 1, therein is division. The works of the flesh.

In growing by "the sincere milk of the word", we mature into unity, growing in "the faith and knowledge of the Son of God".

Much love!

Yes. And it's interesting to note that having "tasted of the Lord" is mentioned in both books as having to do with receiving the milk of the word:

1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection... 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:1-6)

1. Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings 2. as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, 3. if so be you have tasted that the Lord is gracious. (1 Peter 2:1-3)

The other passage that mentions milk is in 1st Corinthians 3, and it again takes going through the context to fully explain it, but the meaning is largely the same there as well.
 

Hidden In Him

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Has the movement from milk to meat begun when the principle doctrines are in place and the journey toward the perfection is in progress?

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again

[1] the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of
[2] faith toward God, Of the
[3] doctrine of baptisms, and of
[4] laying on of hands, and of
[5] resurrection of the dead, and of
[6] eternal judgment.

And this will we do, if God permit." Heb 6:1-3


I sometimes wonder if the modern church, especially in the West, receives much spiritual meat these days, my brother. It seems like many churches nowadays don't give as much attention to the persecuted church and focus instead on teaching "the blessed life," even though James said the rich man is the one who endures trails and sufferings (James 1:12).

I think several decades of prosperity teaching has had its effect, and the mentality among many Christians now has switched back to the common (but mistaken) Old Testament mindset: That the man who is "blessed" is the one who has things good in this life, rather than in the one to come.
 

marks

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Yes. And it's interesting to note that having "tasted of the Lord" is mentioned in both books as having to do with receiving the milk of the word:

1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection... 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:1-6)

1. Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings 2. as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, 3. if so be you have tasted that the Lord is gracious. (1 Peter 2:1-3)

The other passage that mentions milk is in 1st Corinthians 3, and it again takes going through the context to fully explain it, but the meaning is largely the same there as well.
This is all making me think of the upward call in Christ.

:)

Much love!
 
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marks

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That the man who is "blessed" is the one who has things good in this life, rather than the one to come.
Or that the real richness, the true blessedness, is the life lived experiencing God communing in the heart.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Has the movement from milk to meat begun when the principle doctrines are in place and the journey toward the perfection is in progress?

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again

[1] the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of
[2] faith toward God, Of the
[3] doctrine of baptisms, and of
[4] laying on of hands, and of
[5] resurrection of the dead, and of
[6] eternal judgment.

And this will we do, if God permit." Heb 6:1-3
Absent this list are the doctrines of enduring, and serving, and giving. All the one-anothering.

Much love!
 

amadeus

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I sometimes wonder if the modern church, especially in the West, receives much spiritual meat these days, my brother. It seems like many churches nowadays don't give as much attention to the persecuted church and focus instead on teaching "the blessed life," even though James said the rich man is the one who endures trails and sufferings (James 1:12).

I think several decades of prosperity teaching has had its effect, and the mentality among many Christians now has switched back to the common (but mistaken) Old Testament mindset: That the man who is "blessed" is the one who has things good in this life, rather than in the one to come.
In the groups where I attended for many years up until 2018, many of the ministers and other members have lengthy studies in place covering the principle doctrines I separated with numbers. From there can we move or be moved toward perfection? Can we become overcomers as Jesus was an overcomer? What happens to anyone who does not so overcome?
 

amadeus

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Absent this list are the doctrines of enduring, and serving, and giving. All the one-anothering.

Much love!
Moving on toward perfection means eliminating those things which when followed lead us to sin... Jesus never sinned, but being tempted he had these same attractions to sin that we did.

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world" I John 2:16

Jesus overcame them:

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

And we...?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

And the rewards of overcomers?

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev 2:11

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Rev 2:17

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:" Rev 2:26

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Rev 3:5

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." Rev 3:12

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Rev 3:21
 
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amadeus

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How do we overcome?

Much love!

"Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." Rom 12:21

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible" Marl 10:27

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:37-38

Still not there? Still need help to accomplish it?

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" Matt 7:7-11

And then again of the rewards:

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." Rev 21:7
 
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marks

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And then again of the rewards:

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." Rev 21:7

1 Jon 5:4 "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

Much love!
 
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David H.

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Greetings, David.

I agree with you that the "word of righteousness" (i.e. the teaching on righteousness) is the meat of the word here, although I think it involves more than simply walking in peace and avoiding divisions. I think the expression "meat of the word" relates specifically to those parts of Christian teaching that are the "toughest" to swallow, and by that I mean the teachings on enduring afflictions, trials, sufferings and persecution for Christ's sake, to reign together with Him in eternity (2 Timothy 2:10-12).

It is summarized more clearly in Chapter 10:

32 But recall the former days in which, after you were enlightened, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: 33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and afflictions, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; 34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: 37 “For yet a little while, and He who is coming will come and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith. But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.” 39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:32-39)

As for the context of Hebrews 5, in previous Chapters the writer is comparing the New Testament saints "sojourn" to Heaven with the Israelites sojourn to the promised land, (i.e. the "rest" of God he is referring to in both these instances). Thus, he starts off Chapter 4 as follows:

1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them (the unbelieving Jews), but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said, “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.” 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disbelief, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said, “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” (Hebrews 4:1-7)

Why did the Israelites harden their hearts and not enter in? Because they feared for their lives, knowing giants were in the land. Thus, the teaching here was simple: New Testament believers, if they would enter into the TRUE promised land which the holy land only typified, needed to believe God and NOT fear for their lives as the faithless Israelites did, but if necessary endure afflictions and persecution for His name's sake. God was angry with the cowardice and faithlessness exhibited by the Israelites who would not enter in, and therefore swore in His wrath that they would not, even after they witnessed His power in manifestation. Thus, the writer was saying that we must not fall away in similar fear of what the enemy might do to us (more specifically to our flesh). This is why he will go on to say in Chapter 6:

1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. (Hebrews 6:1-8)

Thus, living out the gospel involves not just baptisms or laying on of hands to receive anointings and outpourings (the "milk" of Christian teaching). It must also involve teachings on enduring persecution and affliction in preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

My experience on this is that the persecutions and afflictions are the means by which God teaches us to digest the meat of the Word.... For me the meat of doctrine are those refinements in us that enable us to produce the fruit of the Spirit, some thirty fold, some sixty fold and dome a hundred fold (Mark 4:20).... The Word of Righteousness is the transformation of our fallen self into a new creation which is fruitful because it has put to death the selfishness and pride and anger and animosity that causes mankind to act based on these carnal fallen elements in us, thus the righteousness of God imputed upon us as a forgiving element becomes a transforming element that flows through us.

For me personally, I Have always viewed the Love of God this way, that we are a vessel into which he pours his love and eventually his love begins to overflow this vessel and spread to others around us.... The same is true of His Imputed righteousness, once we allow him to fill us and totally rely on His righteousness it flows through us to others, instead of fighting for our own carnal self righteousness.

What this means is that carnal nature must be allowed to reach its breaking point (Brokenness) Before he can begin to fill us with His righteousness. Every effort we make of our own will and strength to be righteous is fruitless until then. Persecution and afflictions are the means by which he leads us to this Brokenness.

Thanks for the response.

What would you say contributes the most to these divisions? What I mean is, what do you think it is that people actually do towards creating division?

Ultimately, division is caused by self righteousness..... "My doctrine is right, yours is wrong" Mindset. or a more appropriate term would be doctrinal self righteousness. although sound doctrine is essential to the Christian life, it means nothing until it blossoms in the believer in deeds of righteousness which are not our works but the works of God through us. To Help explain this break down this verse and understand the Minutia of what Paul is saying here:

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10)
 
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