WE NEED TO BE BORN AGAIN.

@Pearl Indeed, the New Birth in John chapter 3 is such a central and pivotal truth.

Pearl said:

In our bibles we are being told by Paul that IF you are a Christian, there is NO POSSIBILITY AT ALL that there is any condemnation from God towards you. Ever. No condemnation. We are also being told that we are the children of God – and that this relationship with God is based, not on FEAR, but upon LOVE. Also, we are being told that God is FOR us – and that because of that, nothing and no one can stand against us. And finally, we are being told that there is NOTHING WHATSOEVER that can come between us and the love of God in Christ Jesus. We are also told that we do not have to EARN our Salvation by works but that it is a FREE gift, and that we are accepted by God because of our FAITH.

ü Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-2

ü In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 1 John:17-19

ü If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31

ü For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-19

ü For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9


These assurances are describing, not only God’s attitude towards us, but they are describing our RELATIONSHIP with Him through Christ. We could list many other verses. But these four strike at the heart and core of so many of the problems we have in our Christian walk.

All true but there is a big IF in there. Terms and conditions still apply in God's Kingdom. And not everyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian. Not all church goers are Christians. Not all clergy, including bishops and priests, are born again Christians. Not everyone who was Christened/’baptised’ as a baby is a born again Christian. Not everybody who has a title in front of their name is a Christian. Not everybody who was brought up by Christian parents is a Christian. This is something I was taught by the lovely Spirit filled C of E vicar who led me to Christ over thirty years ago. I thought I was a Christian but I wasn’t. You have to make your own choice.

Some of these and other similar truths were listed in the front of a little booklet called 'Journey Into Life' which I read and responded to all those years ago. It is still true today. There is only one way to be a Christian and that is to repent, seek forgiveness die to self and turn your life over to Jesus, ask him to come into your heart - because if Jesus isn’t in your HEART whatever you do is just empty religion.

You need to be born again.

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and who does the rebirthing?

Two points in the OP - There is no condemnation for us and we must be born again! Both are correct - but do both get misunderstood?

A criminal get condemned!!!

If you believe in Him then you are not condemned!! Yet you are reproved!! And you are disciplined!!

Rev 3:19 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

Being reproved ad disciplined does not mean you are condemned!! Yet it often does have the effect of convicting us of our sins!!

I have sin many a Christian confuse conviction of their sins or even correction to mean they are "condemned"!!

Indeed, some seem to conclude that since they can not be condemned then they do not have sin anymore. Yet all unrighteousness is sin, and we don't alway do the right thing - if for no other reason than we don't always listen to the Lord. Now believers are counted or reckon as righteous - but being reckon or counted at righteous by God is not the same thing as actually being righteous. Indeed it is that being counted as righteous even though we are not righteous that means we are not condemned/convicted or our sins. We are instead counted as sons and daughters and as such are not treated as criminals but as kids in need of teaching are correction. We need teaching and correction even if it sometimes convicts us of our sins - which doesn't always feel so good!


Now concerning being born again - Jesus said that if we are born again we hear the sound of the wind (the Holy Spirit & Kingdom of God)!! And He also mentioned that we testify to things (hearing the sound of the wind), but those not born again do not accept our testimony!

Jn 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jn 3:8 “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Jn 3 :11 “Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

Jn 3:12 “If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

The fact is that if we are born again/of the Spirit - then we start hearing and seeing with our spiritual eyes and ears. If hearing and seeing with our spiritual eyes and ears then we have the testimonies that come from hearing and seeing with our spiritual eyes and ears. Yet so often when I even tell "Christians" about hearing and seeing with my spiritual eyes and ears I am met with disbelief. Certainly, the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit around and there is indeed both good and evil available and we need to choose good. It is not always so easy to discern good from evil but if and since we are told to choose "good" then we must have some ability to discern good from evil - that is we have that ability if we can hear and see with our spiritual eyes and ears.

So what have we seen and heard? We might not see the exact same thing, but if born again we do hear the sound of the wind and do testify about "what we have seen"!! Yet where are the testimonies?

Pearl said:

God does through the Holy Spirit. I thought you would have known that.

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I do my dear. Even the qualities you have listed below are evidence that a rebirth is in process and has taken place.

Pearl said:

There is only one way to be a Christian and that is to repent, seek forgiveness die to self and turn your life over to Jesus, ask him to come into your heart

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Pearl said:

You need to be born again.

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Correct. The Lord Jesus Christ made this an absolute imperative when speaking to Nicodemus (and through that to the human race). No one can either enter or see the Kingdom of God without the New Birth, which is supernatural. Therefore we are "born again", "born from above", "born of the Spirit", and "born of God". And that is how people become "children of God", by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and repenting.

Pearl said:

In our bibles we are being told by Paul that IF you are a Christian, there is NO POSSIBILITY AT ALL that there is any condemnation from God towards you. Ever.

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Sorry, but that’s wrong, right off the bat.

Romans 8 is clearly conditional, saying there’s no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, but after THE SPIRIT.

And goes on to say if we walk after the flesh we will die, meaning die spiritually, as per Ephesians 2:1, being dead in sins.

Believers are also told that the blood of Christ continuing to cleanse us from sin is conditional on our continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, in 1 John 1:7, where the Greek shows it’s a continuing process

Shalom Aleichem

Pearl said:

In our bibles we are being told by Paul that IF you are a Christian, there is NO POSSIBILITY AT ALL that there is any condemnation from God towards you. Ever. No condemnation. We are also being told that we are the children of God – and that this relationship with God is based, not on FEAR, but upon LOVE.

Click to expand...

Curtis said:

Sorry, but that’s wrong, right off the bat.

Romans 8 is clearly conditional, saying there’s no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, but after THE SPIRIT.

And goes on to say if we walk after the flesh we will die, meaning die spiritually, as per Ephesians 2:1, being dead in sins.

Believers are also told that the blood of Christ continuing to cleanse us from sin is conditional on our continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, in 1 John 1:7, where the Greek shows it’s a continuing process

Shalom Aleichem

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Pearl has it right!!! However, who is really a Christian? Pearl seems to say it is those born again, and that sound right but it's still vague as to who is a Christian. Who is born again?

It is those who believe in Jesus Christ, but even that can be vague! So there is a bit more in the Bible. Like, His sheep hear His voice. So do we hear from Him? Now hearing from Him does not mean that you always hear from Him, and we are not saved by great works. Yet if we do hear from Him we can tell people things He has told us!

Jn 3:8 “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Jn 3:11 “Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

So again, who is really a Christian? Those who hears the words of God - of course. So do we hear Him???

The first words I heard from Him, my Lord, were "Read Your Bible". I heard that clearly, very clearly, and it came with power. Yet He was not the Bible, but rather those who wrote the Bible had heard from Him.

Jn 10 :5,6 “When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. “A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”

Now just because we will not follow 'a stranger' does not mean we don't still have sin! It just means that we won't follow. The devil is tricky and sometimes it takes a moment to realize that it is not His voice. Also, we get busy and we tend to wonder away, so like sheep we have to be collected and rounded up. That doesn't mean the Shepard/Jesus is going to loose us, it just means we are not to smart and don't pay attention like we should!!

Jn 10:29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

That reads "NO ONE" AS IN "NO ONE"!! Or perhaps a person could write "NO POSSIBILITY AT ALL" that they could be snatched!! And since they are His sheep, there is indeed "No condemnation" in Jesus Christ. There is however learning, directing, teaching, discipline, reproof, and so on!! If you do something wrong, you might very well feel a conviction that you did something wrong the next time you listen to Him!! If you didn't know you were doing something wrong, He might correct you in such a way where you don't feel that conviction. On the other hand if you knew you were doing it wrong you might also get punished, like a Father might punish a child to bring correction! Yet that correction is not condemnation - but correction. You don't put your children in hell forever. That is for those who will not seek the Lord and listen to Him.

So there might be "Christians" who do not hear His voice but pretend obedience - which is to say they pretend to know Jesus Christ and pretend to do things in His name even thought they don't hear His voice!!

Is 30:10 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen To the instruction of the LORD;

Ps 81:15 “Those who hate the LORD would pretend obedience to Him, And their time of punishment would be forever.

That is condemnation from God - that there punishment would be forever - and note that they are pretending obedience to Him. They don't actually hear from Him. And what is amazing is that they often pretend the never do anything wrong and pretend they don't have sin.

1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.


Now there is a misreading that I have seen that can be a problem. People think that being in the light means they can't sin! But light makes things easy to see , like your sin!

So it was the Paul the born again Christian wrote:

Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Rom 7: 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

Rom 7:21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

Now Saul that Pharisees who did not know the voice of the Lord was heading to put the early believers in prison and was blind as to the fact that what he was doing was very wrong!! Saul the Pharisee was in the dark, but Paul the Christian who wrote so much of the Bible and was in the light understood that evil was present in him. That is what it means to be in the light - that you can see that we battle with those dark spiritual forces of this world and that the battle is in us. The person who thought he did every thing right is the Pharisee (the religious person who is not in the light) where as the true Christian who is in the light realizes that He has a battle in himself. That realization cause the true Christian to seek the Lord Jesus Christ over and over and over during everyday that is called "Today" because that person is in the light! And as mentioned, they have testimonies, even from "Today", about what they heard in the wind/Holy Spirit!!

That is to say the the Lord, if you know Him and believe in Him, talks to you everyday called "Today"!! You will hear His voice "Today" because He is your Lord and His sheep hear His voice. Not just His, but you will hear from Him because He never leaves you not forsakes you. Because you are still a person, you act like a person. Maybe you don't want to talk to Him today, but you will hear from Him. His mercy is new everyday, so He will be there in the morning when you get up. He will work on you different times during the day!! That is what He does - He works on you. He teaches you. He encourages you. He often tells you He loves you, but sometimes He gets on to you. And you know what else? You should! He tells you that you will spend eternity with Him. Even if you get mad at Him, which because we are people and like Paul often find we do the very things we don't want to do ( like getting mad at Him when petty little things don't go our way) He still faithfully comes back and talks to you. He even get you doing things you would not want to do.

Yeah - Pearl is right about it being a relationship!!! I just wonder why we can't be honest about that relationship? Are we just saying and pretending we have a relationship with Him? I hope not - because "their time of punishment would be forever."

Karl Peters said:

Pearl has it right!!! However, who is really a Christian? Pearl seems to say it is those born again, and that sound right but it's still vague as to who is a Christian. Who is born again?

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No, pearl has it wrong, since OSAS is bogus, and Paul wrote dozens of verses warning to not be deceived about that very thing.

OSAS is that deception Paul warned the brethren against.


She started off quoting only part of Romans 8.


But in fact, Romans 8 - refutes OSAS when exegeted in context.


Romans 8:1- starts off with the fact that there’s no condemnation for those IN Christ Jesus.


But Verse 4 makes clear that having no condemnation and being IN Christ, is conditional on NOT walking after the flesh, but after the spirit.


The fact that having no condemnation in verse 1 is dependent on not walking after the flesh, but after the spirit in verse 4, is so evident that the KJV translators added verse 4 to the end of verse 1, to make the passage more understandable:


Rom 8:1- There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

That’s a conditional statement, as having no condemnation is dependent on not walking after the flesh - meaning carnal and sinful works of the flesh - but walking in the spirit, meaning living spiritually and not worldly.



Romans 8- then goes on to explain the consequences of death if we let our flesh win the conflict between our Spirit and flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


Rom 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is DEATH, but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 - So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


In Galatians 5, Paul lists the works of the flesh, which DEFINES what is meant in Romans 8- about walking after the flesh, instead of after the spirit, and warns that committing those sins of the flesh will keep believers out of heaven:


Gal 5:16 - This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

(Above, is the definition of Romans 8:4 of what it means to walk NOT after the FLESH - avoiding lust of the flesh).


Gal 5:17 - For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

(This shows there is a conflict between our flesh and spirit as believers, and we must choose which one we follow: the flesh or the spirit)


Gal 5:18 - But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 - Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 - Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 - Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told you in time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
(Will not make it into heaven).

Romans 8- is therefore clear that having no condemnation is conditional on living righteously as a believer and walking spiritually and not sinfully, after the flesh, and that if we choose to walk after the flesh instead of after the spirit we will die SPIRITUALLY and will not enter the kingdom of heaven.


Romans 8- explains the consequences of death if we let the flesh win the conflict between our Spirit and flesh:


Rom 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is DEATH, but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 - So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Romans 8:6, above, is talking about spiritual death - not physical death - as proven by the Galatians 5 text just given, and confirmed by the story of the prodigal son, who died spiritually while he was out in the world sinning:


In the prodigal son story, the father represents God, the son represents believers.


He’s already a son when the story starts.


He leaves the father to live in sin


When he returns to the father in repentance, the father says: this is my son WHO WAS DEAD, but is now alive AGAIN, he WAS LOST, but now IS FOUND.


Luke 15:32- It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother *was dead*, and is *alive again*; and *was lost*, and *is found*.


He obviously wasn’t dead physically and resurrected.


How then was he dead?


He was dead in his sins.


Ephesians 2:1 - And you hath he quickened,who WERE DEAD in *trespasses and sins*


Thus the son was alive, left his Father to live a sinful life, became DEAD in his sins, then returned in repentance, and became alive AGAIN.


Therefore Romans 8- instead of proving unconditional eternal security, has a warning to the brethren not to live carnally, after the flesh, or they will die spiritually, as the prodigal Son did.


And Verse 8:7 of Romans warns us that believers having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


So does James:


James 4:4- Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


The fact is that the correct exegesis of Romans 8- refutes, and does not teach, OSAS!

Curtis said:

No, pearl has it wrong, since OSAS is bogus, and Paul wrote dozens of verses warning to not be deceived about that very thing.

OSAS is that deception Paul warned the brethren against.


She started off quoting only part of Romans 8.


But in fact, Romans 8 - refutes OSAS when exegeted in context.


Romans 8:1- starts off with the fact that there’s no condemnation for those IN Christ Jesus.


But Verse 4 makes clear that having no condemnation and being IN Christ, is conditional on NOT walking after the flesh, but after the spirit.


The fact that having no condemnation in verse 1 is dependent on not walking after the flesh, but after the spirit in verse 4, is so evident that the KJV translators added verse 4 to the end of verse 1, to make the passage more understandable:


Rom 8:1- There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

That’s a conditional statement, as having no condemnation is dependent on not walking after the flesh - meaning carnal and sinful works of the flesh - but walking in the spirit, meaning living spiritually and not worldly.



Romans 8- then goes on to explain the consequences of death if we let our flesh win the conflict between our Spirit and flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


Rom 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is DEATH, but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 - So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


In Galatians 5, Paul lists the works of the flesh, which DEFINES what is meant in Romans 8- about walking after the flesh, instead of after the spirit, and warns that committing those sins of the flesh will keep believers out of heaven:


Gal 5:16 - This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 - For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 - But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 - Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 - Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 - Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told you in time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
(Will not make it into heaven).

Romans 8- is therefore clear that having no condemnation is conditional on living righteously as a believer and walking spiritually and not sinfully, after the flesh, and that if we choose to walk after the flesh instead of after the spirit we will die SPIRITUALLY and will not enter the kingdom of heaven.


Romans 8- explains the consequences of death if we let the flesh win the conflict between our Spirit and flesh:


Rom 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is DEATH, but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 - So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Romans 8:6, above, is talking about spiritual death - not physical death - as proven by the Galatians 5 text just given, and confirmed by the story of the prodigal son, who died spiritually while he was out in the world sinning:


In the prodigal son story, the father represents God, the son represents believers.


He’s already a son when the story starts.


He leaves the father to live in sin


When he returns to the father in repentance, the father says: this is my son WHO WAS DEAD, but is now alive AGAIN, he WAS LOST, but now IS FOUND.


Luke 15:32- It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother *was dead*, and is *alive again*; and *was lost*, and *is found*.


He obviously wasn’t dead physically and resurrected.


How then was he dead?


He was dead in his sins.


Ephesians 2:1 - And you hath he quickened,who WERE DEAD in *trespasses and sins*


Thus the son was alive, left his Father to live a sinful life, became DEAD in his sins, then returned in repentance, and became alive AGAIN.


Therefore Romans 8- instead of proving unconditional eternal security, has a warning to the brethren not to live carnally, after the flesh, or they will die spiritually, as the prodigal Son did.


And Verse 8:7 of Romans warns us that believers having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


So does James:


James 4:4- Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


The fact is that the correct exegesis of Romans 8- refutes, and does not teach, OSAS!

Click to expand...

Pearl wrote about Christians - seemingly meaning the real Christians who are in fact following the Holy Spirit - which excludes all the verses you quote above!!

Now Paul was writing to many "Christians" who are not in fact following the Holy Spirt!!!

To be sure, there is nothing new under the Sun, so many so called "Christians" don't actually seek the Lord and listen to Him, just like many Jews did not seek the Lord and listen to Him either.

So I wind up writing to many "Christians" because many don't listen to Him.

Mat 3:15 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. “In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
‘YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;
YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES,
OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'

Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

Jn 10:5 “A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”

So there were those Israelites/Jews back then, thought they were consider a people put aside to God, who did not listen, period. And there are Christians today who do not listen either. To them it was said "while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand." and things like that. Yet there are others of whom is was said, "A stranger they simply will not follow".

Both those verses have to be true!!!

You can not use one verse to invalidate another verse!! Try taking what you read to the Lord and listen to Him, so that it will make sense to you!

Do you still not understand that His disciples (those He personally taught) were going to heaven except one which was predetermined (Judas) That does not mean His disciples always did everything right. Did they not all fall away at the time of the cross? They all did fall away. Peter even denied Him 3 times, but He was not going to lose a one of those given to Him!! If for no other reason than the fact that the Father gave them to Him and nobody can stop that! I already gave you a verse about that, but did we just throw that away, again as if one verse might nullify another verse.

So again - seek the Lord and listen and learn from Him. He will explain it all to you to where all the Scriptures go together!

Taken said:

WE NEED TO BE BORN AGAIN.
^ OP

To "receive" the "offering" of the New Covenant...
Amen...a person needs be made Born Again.

Glory to God,
Taken

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Can one be made reborn by himself through Jesus?

Pearl said:

These assurances are describing, not only God’s attitude towards us, but they are describing our RELATIONSHIP with Him through Christ. We could list many other verses. But these four strike at the heart and core of so many of the problems we have in our Christian walk.

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Yes, I think that's it, our relationship. If we've been reborn, we're born from God, His kids, He knows us. Like Jesus said, this is eternal life, to know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You sent.

I think this sums up God's attitude towards us, "I did all this to have a relationship with you!"

Great post!

Much love!

Are we making this way too hard??

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

If we decide to open up to Jesus Christ He sends His Holy Spirit and comes into us! So we are then a new creature in that He dwells in us!

Ps 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable; I will utter dark sayings of old,

So He opened His mouth in a parable/saying "“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Ok - the Pharisee, named Nicodemus didn't understand and it seems that others also don't understand. Why was that? Was it because he had not opened up to Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit? So Jesus gave a very simple explanation:

Jn 3:5,6 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Do we still not understand? I don't think Nicodemus did, and wasn't that because he never actually opened up to hearing God?

People - God is spirit so the kingdom of God is spiritual! Then to hook up with the kingdom of God you need access to the Spirit of God, which you have if you only open up to Him!

Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

The Pharisee, named Nicodemus didn't understand because He had never opened up to the Lord to listen to what He had to say. So the Holy Spirit had never come into him, so he was just a man operating according to his own fleshy understanding of religion as opposed to someone who knew the Lord personally! He didn't have the Holy Spirit dwelling in him, so he didn't know what that was like. He was not born again, meaning that he was not a creature who besides having all that flesh also had the Holy Spirit in him.

It is a simple remedy!! Jesus Christ is just standing there knocking with His voice. Today, if anyone does not understand this simply know that Jesus Christ wants to talk back and forth with you personally!! He wants that soooo much that He is just standing there waiting for you to actually open up to Him!!

You too can talk to God!!

But know that His ways are not your ways. You can ask Him for the winning numbers to the lottery but don't think Him so stupid as to just give them to you. That might wreck you. Then again, I don't know. Perhaps He will give them to you. Perhaps you need to be wrecked and it might be a good way to do it. He is smart like that. So come to Him and reason with Him, just be prepared to be wrong all the time when you do. It's good for you to be wrong. You will learn a lot from that - like what He means by being born again. You will hear the wind/Holy Spirit, but where it comes from or where it is going you will not know.

JohnPaul said:

Can one be made reborn by himself through Jesus?

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Born again by the washing of renewal and regeneration by the Holy Spirit, which happens when we receive Jesus, John 1:12, by asking Him to come into our heart, Revelation 3:20, where He then dwells, Ephesians 3:17, asking Him to forgive our sins, Acts 3:19, confessing your faith in your heart that God raised the Lord Jesus from the dead, and calling on the name of the Lord, Romans 10:8-13.

The prayer that puts it all together: Lord Jesus, I believe you died for our sins and rose from the dead - I ask you to come into my heart, forgive my sins, save my soul, and make me a new creature.

Thereafter we are expected and required to live righteously, repent when we sin and are convicted that we have sinned, and walk in the light as He is in the light, and walk after the spirit.

How we are to live as Christians is explained to us:

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which isin you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.


Luk 9:23 And he said to themall, If any manwill come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.



2Co 7:1 Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.


1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,

1Pe 1:15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,

1Pe 1:16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”



Eph 4:17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds.

Eph 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.

Eph 4:19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.

Eph 4:20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!—

Eph 4:21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus,

Eph 4:22 to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires,

Eph 4:23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds,

Eph 4:24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.


Eph 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

Eph 5:3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.

Eph 5:4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.

Eph 5:5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Eph 5:7 Therefore do not become partakers with them.


Heb 12:14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

Heb 12:15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

Heb 12:16 that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal.

Heb 12:17 For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.


2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,


2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that you look for such things, be diligent that you may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.


Note: without spot, and blameless…] The words are nearly identical with the description of Christ as “a lamb without blemish and without spot” in 1Pe 1:19, and James 1:27 confirms we are to be like Jesus, without spot.



Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, andto keep himself unspotted from the world.


2Pe 3:17 And so, dear friends, since you already know these things, continually be on your guard not to be carried away by the deception of lawless people. Otherwise, you may fall from your secure position.

2Pe 3:18 Instead, continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Messiah. Glory belongs to him both now and on that eternal day! Amen.

marks said:

Yes, I think that's it, our relationship. If we've been reborn, we're born from God, His kids, He knows us. Like Jesus said, this is eternal life, to know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You sent.

I think this sums up God's attitude towards us, "I did all this to have a relationship with you!"

Great post!

Much love!

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Yes I meant without a Church or some Pastor or Priest or congregation.

I have read the Bible myself and have done it on my own without mans interference.

JohnPaul said:

Yes I meant without a Church or some Pastor or Priest or congregation.

I have read the Bible myself and have done it on my own without mans interference.

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@JohnPaul The end of 1 Peter indeed says that the believer has been 'begotten...by the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever'.