Kriss,We can see spirit beings, only through the power of God of course, but it is possible. When Jesus was being tempted by satan in the wilderness, he showed Jesus all the kingdoms of this world. How could that be possible if we could not see spiritual beings?
The Rapture Of The Church
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(kriss;12195)
Satan did rebell in the pre-Adamic age, in the garden and Satan is still rebellining I also agree he will take the form man when he enters as Antichrist
Satan entered people in flesh before. Satan entered Judas....Luke 22:3 KJVThen entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Satan did rebell in the pre-Adamic age, in the garden and Satan is still rebellining I also agree he will take the form man when he enters as Antichrist
Satan entered people in flesh before. Satan entered Judas....Luke 22:3 KJVThen entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
That is true Tama...but that isn't the literal physical man/angel that entered Judas. It was the spirit of the antiChrist (Satan) that entered Judas. Satan is physically held by Michael...as there is war in Heaven! (Revelation 12:7)Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
I believe that there is a War in Heaven, and Satan is the General that is in charge of his Armies of Demons, Micheal isn't holding him back because if he were he would'nt be able to do any thing.Remember in Daniel, Micheal said, that he was hindered from delivering the message to him because of the Battle that was going on!
(jodycour;12284)
I believe that there is a War in Heaven, and Satan is the General that is in charge of his Armies of Demons, Micheal isn't holding him back because if he were he would'nt be able to do any thing.Remember in Daniel, Micheal said, that he was hindered from delivering the message to him because of the Battle that was going on!
Yes, it took Micheal 3 weeks to deliver message to Daniel.. But what about the passge in Bible Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. ( I think this is the present time)Revelation 20:2 (Whole Chapter) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison(and this is the 1000 year in the future)
I believe that there is a War in Heaven, and Satan is the General that is in charge of his Armies of Demons, Micheal isn't holding him back because if he were he would'nt be able to do any thing.Remember in Daniel, Micheal said, that he was hindered from delivering the message to him because of the Battle that was going on!
Yes, it took Micheal 3 weeks to deliver message to Daniel.. But what about the passge in Bible Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. ( I think this is the present time)Revelation 20:2 (Whole Chapter) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison(and this is the 1000 year in the future)
Daniel was before Christ and Satan was free to come and goSatan is held by Michael physically Now, currentley Untill he gets kicked out of heaven down to earth. Satan has only been held by Michael since the crusifiction and he was conquered by Christ on the cross his spirit roams free but not him.Till the end times when he comes claiming to be christ returned (antichrist)
(kriss;12304)
Daniel was before Christ and Satan was free to come and goSatan is held by Michael physically Now, currentley Untill he gets kicked out of heaven down to earth. Satan has only been held by Michael since the crusifiction and he was conquered by Christ on the cross his spirit roams free but not him.Till the end times when he comes claiming to be christ returned (antichrist)
Scripture?JesusReigns
Daniel was before Christ and Satan was free to come and goSatan is held by Michael physically Now, currentley Untill he gets kicked out of heaven down to earth. Satan has only been held by Michael since the crusifiction and he was conquered by Christ on the cross his spirit roams free but not him.Till the end times when he comes claiming to be christ returned (antichrist)
Scripture?JesusReigns
(Faithful1;12405)
JesusReigns,May I ask your denonmination?thank you
Faithful - JesusReigns is a PRETERIST.There is a thread called 'warning Preterist false doctrine' Kriss explained everything this doctrine teaches and you can learn more about it. Faithful - what is your denomination? Just out of the curiosity. (actually I wanted to know because of your reply on another theread) Thanks
JesusReigns,May I ask your denonmination?thank you
Faithful - JesusReigns is a PRETERIST.There is a thread called 'warning Preterist false doctrine' Kriss explained everything this doctrine teaches and you can learn more about it. Faithful - what is your denomination? Just out of the curiosity. (actually I wanted to know because of your reply on another theread) Thanks
In Rev.20:2Satan is bound for a Thousand years during the Millenial Reign.Where is scripture to back up this theory that Michael is holding Lucifer since Jesus came?
(jodycour;12452)
In Rev.20:2Satan is bound for a Thousand years during the Millenial Reign.Where is scripture to back up this theory that Michael is holding Lucifer since Jesus came?
Yep, I agree with JodyCour. I don't understand that either. Bible says he (Satan) is wondering around looking to speal, kill and destroy...Then it will be bound and held captive for the 'Millenial Reign'. This is why Millenial Reign will be a 'paradise', because Satan will be bound.
In Rev.20:2Satan is bound for a Thousand years during the Millenial Reign.Where is scripture to back up this theory that Michael is holding Lucifer since Jesus came?
Yep, I agree with JodyCour. I don't understand that either. Bible says he (Satan) is wondering around looking to speal, kill and destroy...Then it will be bound and held captive for the 'Millenial Reign'. This is why Millenial Reign will be a 'paradise', because Satan will be bound.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Thaught this was about the rapture............This millenium is confusing everything, and what i dont understand is why Peter---yes in 2pet 3 - treats it as though it doesnt exist.He completely overlooks it, and his eyes are on the great white throne. They are looking for the day when the lord comes, which will bring them to the place where righteousness dwells;
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
A quick look at Rev 20 and 21; (Which is after the Millenium............
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." 5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true." 6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
This would appear to put the 2nd coming after the millenium if right...Which would mean that we are in the millenium now.I guess we can believe we have already been blessed with no fear of death, or the 2nd death, we have the guarentee of the Spirit; we are considered to have already passed on from death to life;
20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ[8][I.e. the Messiah] all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
still thinking about this one lol
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
A quick look at Rev 20 and 21; (Which is after the Millenium............
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." 5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true." 6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
This would appear to put the 2nd coming after the millenium if right...Which would mean that we are in the millenium now.I guess we can believe we have already been blessed with no fear of death, or the 2nd death, we have the guarentee of the Spirit; we are considered to have already passed on from death to life;
20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ[8][I.e. the Messiah] all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
still thinking about this one lol
I don't believe that God is going to pour out His wrath upon His children!I do believe that it is possible that we will see the birth pangs that Jesus talked about, actually I believe that We are seeing some of those things now, but I believe that we will be taken out before the Anti-Christ comes on the scene, in power.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
I don't believe that God is going to pour out His wrath upon His children!
The wrath is not for us, but for those who reject the salvation being offered.Tribulation is a different matter---If they persecuted Jesus they will persecute you.
but I believe that we will be taken out before the Anti-Christ comes on the scene, in power.
1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy[4][Or falling away from the faith] comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,Looks like Paul is teaching us that we will not be gathered to the Lord until the man of sin is revealed.In 2thess 1, Paul says that on the day he comes to punish those who rejected the truth, we believers will find relief and we will marvel at him---on the same day.
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.
The wrath is not for us, but for those who reject the salvation being offered.Tribulation is a different matter---If they persecuted Jesus they will persecute you.
but I believe that we will be taken out before the Anti-Christ comes on the scene, in power.
1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy[4][Or falling away from the faith] comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,Looks like Paul is teaching us that we will not be gathered to the Lord until the man of sin is revealed.In 2thess 1, Paul says that on the day he comes to punish those who rejected the truth, we believers will find relief and we will marvel at him---on the same day.
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.
Just as God protected Daniel in the firey furnace he will protect his own and wont be flying anybody away to do so .Have faith God doesnt need to rapture anyone away to protect them you simply need to read his word to know what is coming you wont be fooled and God will protect and reward you for that. The man of lawlessness(antichrist) comes first you are not changed untill the last trump. in fact when you think about it the pre-trib rapture goes against everything God ever taught us. To remove all believers from the world would leave no hope for those left here no one to preach the way. Jesus Christ.It seems to me only the weak of faith need to believe in a pre-trib rapture.Those that dont believe God can and will protect them just as he did Daniel.Put on your spiritual Armour listen to what God tells you and have enough faith to believe it and stop listening to men looking for the easy way outta here it anit gonna happen God says so.1 Corinthians 15:52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
When the believers are taken away, that's when the 2 Prophets, and the 144,000 will teach and preach about salvation.That's why the scriptures teach us that the time of the Gentiles will come to an end.God will return to focus on the Jews again.
(jodycour;13299)
When the believers are taken away,
Read your Bible....They 'believers' are never taken, only the wicked are taken.Mathew 24:37-39 - Days of Noah. Wicked taken, the remnant of God (Noah and his family) left behind.Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.The Rapture is Not a SecretYou can also watch Revelation’s Rapture for more truth about the Rapture.
When the believers are taken away,
Read your Bible....They 'believers' are never taken, only the wicked are taken.Mathew 24:37-39 - Days of Noah. Wicked taken, the remnant of God (Noah and his family) left behind.Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.The Rapture is Not a SecretYou can also watch Revelation’s Rapture for more truth about the Rapture.
jodycour
When the believers are taken away, that's when the 2 Prophets, and the 144,000 will teach and preach about salvation.That's why the scriptures teach us that the time of the Gentiles will come to an end.God will return to focus on the Jews again.
Why do you and most people insist on seperating the Jews and the GentilesIn order to satisfy the view of a Pre-Tribulation rapture it is necessary to seperate Israel and the Church (and therefore Jews and Christians) regardless of a common belief in Christ. Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Until you stop seperating the two,you will be confusedThey (Israel) are mentioned in the New Testament though, for example, the book of James is written to them, written to us: "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." {James 1:1}. And again: "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." {1 Pet 1:1-2}It is made very clear in the book of Revelation that there will be believers still on the Earth throughout the Great Tribulation. These are believers in the redeeming work of Jesus Christ on the cross and His resurrection from the dead. These believers are referred to as servants of our God (Revelation 7:3), saints (Revelation 13:7, Revelation 13:10, Revelation 14:12), the remnant (Revelation 12:17), and overcomers (Revelation 2:7, Revelation 2:11, Revelation 2:17, Revelation 2:26, Revelation 17:14, Revelation 21:7), yet for some reason in the Pre-trib view these faithful have missed the rapture and were "left behind" to endure the worst time ever experienced on Earth. How could that be?
When the believers are taken away, that's when the 2 Prophets, and the 144,000 will teach and preach about salvation.That's why the scriptures teach us that the time of the Gentiles will come to an end.God will return to focus on the Jews again.
Why do you and most people insist on seperating the Jews and the GentilesIn order to satisfy the view of a Pre-Tribulation rapture it is necessary to seperate Israel and the Church (and therefore Jews and Christians) regardless of a common belief in Christ. Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Until you stop seperating the two,you will be confusedThey (Israel) are mentioned in the New Testament though, for example, the book of James is written to them, written to us: "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." {James 1:1}. And again: "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." {1 Pet 1:1-2}It is made very clear in the book of Revelation that there will be believers still on the Earth throughout the Great Tribulation. These are believers in the redeeming work of Jesus Christ on the cross and His resurrection from the dead. These believers are referred to as servants of our God (Revelation 7:3), saints (Revelation 13:7, Revelation 13:10, Revelation 14:12), the remnant (Revelation 12:17), and overcomers (Revelation 2:7, Revelation 2:11, Revelation 2:17, Revelation 2:26, Revelation 17:14, Revelation 21:7), yet for some reason in the Pre-trib view these faithful have missed the rapture and were "left behind" to endure the worst time ever experienced on Earth. How could that be?
Jeff
This millenium is confusing everything, and what i dont understand is why Peter---yes in 2pet 3 - treats it as though it doesnt exist.He completely overlooks it, and his eyes are on the great white throne. They are looking for the day when the lord comes, which will bring them to the place where righteousness dwells;
You are getting the Day of the Lord and the Day of God mixed up.they are seperate eventsThe Day of the Lord is before the Millennium and the Day of God is after
This millenium is confusing everything, and what i dont understand is why Peter---yes in 2pet 3 - treats it as though it doesnt exist.He completely overlooks it, and his eyes are on the great white throne. They are looking for the day when the lord comes, which will bring them to the place where righteousness dwells;
You are getting the Day of the Lord and the Day of God mixed up.they are seperate eventsThe Day of the Lord is before the Millennium and the Day of God is after
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