The Rapture Of The Church

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tim_from_pa

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I know this site is against rapture doctrine. I rather not use that word for it is not in the bible. However, I do believe that the bible clearly teaches "catching away" of certain people. If some want to call this a "rapture", so be it. Maybe this is because I like UFO and abduction stories, but Enoch was caught away. where? To heaven? It does not say. Likewise, so was Elijah. Phillip in Acts experienced a "horizontal rapture" as the Spirit caught him away. The bible has types of things to happen, so I believe that will happen to the "church" as well. When will this be? I cannot say here because I understand that Christians have been at odds over this and I understand that. Some do not believe there is a "rapture" at all if by that one means to fly away. However, that being said, I do believe the bible teaches that when the Lord returns that those who are alive will be transformed to their glorious bodies (in lieu of a rapture) after the resurrection occurs. How can it be otherwise? One cannot inherit the Kingdom with a flesh and blood body. In other words, I think the real issue at stake here is not whether one flies away or not, but if there is a transformation---- that's the real issue regardless of whether one flies or not.Another example of the "catching away" is that of the manchild in Revelation 12. Was that Christ? most theologians teach that, but the manchild was also symbolic of the 144,000 which is why they are sealed in an earlier chapter in Revelation but sing at the heavenly Mount Zion in a later chapter. How did they get there? In other words, I believe in several "catching aways" and don't limit my thinking to a boxed-in view applicable to only one set of people such as the church.I think I gave enough generous latitude to allow tolerance for several viewpoints. If anyone were to vehemently denounce what I stated, I think that emotions (and not biblical doctrine) are coming into play here.
 

Christina

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We believe we are all changed caught up if you will at the last trump just as scripture says
 

n2thelight

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The earliest missionaries in Christian church history included Peter, James, John, Andrew, Phillip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, James (son of Alphaeus), Simon, Mathias (who replaced Judas) Barnabas, and Mark. These men were newly filled with the Holy Spirit and there was a new sense of commitment carried out with boldness. Paul, Timothy, and Barnabas, and others were soon added. All but John were brutally persecuted and faced torturous deaths for spreading the message of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. But it was perhaps Paul that was most instrumental in evangelizing and establishing the early Christian churches. Countless Christians throughout history have been persecuted and died as martyrs for standing on their faith in Christ and telling His story. Included are names like Steven, Ignatius, Polycarp, Joan of Arc and thousands of others. Christian persecutions still exist today in countries such as China, Zaire, and Sudan. Yet Christianity thrives because of the unwavering faith of God's servants and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Romans 5:3 "And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;" Ephesians 3:13 "Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory." II Thessalonians 1:4 "So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:" Through documented Church history, we can see the struggles of its fledgling existence. We see the numerous attempts to stop the advancement of the Church at the price of its followers. But the glory of the Church sits upon Christ Jesus. God has always had a people who recognized Him and He still has a people who continue in their faith to serve Him. Tens of thousands of North Korean Christians are in prison camps, and at least 20 were shot or beaten to death in prison in 2004. In the desert kingdom of Saudi Arabia, all citizens are required to be Muslims. A Saudi national who converts from Islam to another religion can be put to death. Even foreign nationals who are Christians living in Saudi Arabia have been arrested for practicing their faith, and the consequences are harsh. Moeller said, "If you are arrested for being a Christian in Saudi Arabia you can almost count on being tortured. It's one of the realities of that situation for Christian believers in that country. Carrying a Bible, attending a Christian meeting, or being accused of evangelism or converting Muslims can almost certainly bring you a jail sentence and torture." In Vietnam the Communist government has always persecuted Christians who worship outside state-sanctioned churches. But a new religion law that bans any religious activity deemed harmful to national unity is being used to step up the persecution. Moeller said, "This has been a year of increasing persecution in Vietnam, no question about it. Increasing pressure, even martyrdoms on the Christians in the northern parts of Vietnam as well as in many of the rural areas of South Vietnam. Local authorities are cracking down harder than ever." The persecution of Christians is the religious persecution that Christians have endured as a consequence of professing their faith, both historically and in the current era. In the two thousand years of the Christian faith, about 70 million believers have been killed for their faith, of whom 45.5 million or 65% were in the twentieth century, according to "The New Persecuted" ("I Nuovi Perseguitati").[1] The same source indicates that current persecution of Christians is most severe in Sudan. In her book, The Suffering Self, Judith Perkins discusses the subjective psychology of early Christians. In this work, Perkins argues that Christianity formed its political and social unity and achieved its institutional power around the image of the suffering self.[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians With all of this past and present persecutions of Christains I find it very very hard to believe that Chritains who have not had to go through any of this,especially those of us in the United States truely believe that when it is our time,and it is coming that we should think that we will be some how spared, by way of this false doctrine of the rapture. I think I've said all that I can on this subject,so if you all continue to believe that you are somehow worthy to escape when all other Christains throughout history and even now in the present, have not,you all will, without a doubt in my mind, be in for a rude awakining. With all that said I will leave you all with the words of Christ,and good luck in you alls escape attempt. Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
 

RND

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NO ONE certanly NOT ME says Satan Ascended into heaven HE WAS ALREADY THERE and BLOCKED from physically coming back to earth by Michael.
Do you have any scripture that can 'document' this assertion?
So that the Word/THE GOOD NEWS could be peached around the world!Stop putting words in my mouth.
As you know, I did not put words in your mouth. Your assertion that somehow Satan at one time on the earth (that is in the garden) but now being restrained by Michael in Heaven indicates that you believe that Satan has somehow gone back to Heaven.I am merely looking for clarification, not having my posts deleted because I am asking a serious question.
You go ahead and ignore Gods word for mens and keep your eye on the Pope.
Again, please don't take things personally Kriss. If what you state can be backed up logically with scripture you should have no problem backing up what you state and not attacking me.
I have told you what scripture says you can argue till you are blue in the face you can not prove me wrong because its Gods Word not mine your only argument comes from men
Then I'm certain Kriss you'll have no problem using scripture to document your rather usual claim.
You tell me how the whole world is going to follow after the Pope or any other man not just Christains Jews, muslims, athiesists ext.How is the pope going to cause a delusion so great that even the Elect would be fooled if God did not shorten the time?
Sunday sacredness.
How is the pope going to preform great miracles,and wonderous signs
Same way they do now. Clearly from the word Satan and his workers have the ability to duplicate the miricles in the Bible.
Come out of delusion stop twisting the word to meet what men have told you.
Um, I think your missing the point that anything I state is generally backed up with scripture.It's not me that is making the argument that satan, who was once in the garden on earth is now somehow magically being restrained by Michael in Heaven.I'm just looking for documentation.
I know you have better biblical sense.
Indeed. Here's hoping you use some as well.Please don't delete my posts. If the argument made can not be caked up with scripture then it is a false presumption and should be retracted. That's all I'm pointing out.
 

Christina

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Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.As you can see these two verses show Satan both in heaven with God and walking to and fro upon the earth he was free to travel back and forth. This is scripture not my word.
 

Christina

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Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.As you can see these two verses show Satan both in heaven with God and walking to and fro upon the earth he was free to travel back and forth. This is scripture not my word.
Michael is now holding him back how many times are you going to ask me for this. above he could travel back and forth now he is held if you cant get what scripture is saying I dont know what to tell you.I guess you just are not ready to see itRev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
 

HammerStone

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Do you have any scripture that can 'document' this assertion?
Revelation 12:7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.This comes after the child was born - the child that clearly is our Savior. Michael is the one restraining Satan in heaven by God's will:Jude 1:9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.As Kriss documented, he was present as long ago as Job. He has yet to be kicked out of heaven when he comes to this earth:Revelation 12:12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Same way they do now. Clearly from the word Satan and his workers have the ability to duplicate the miricles in the Bible.
I've yet to see any pope snap his fingers and create lightning...Revelation 13:13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
 

RND

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Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.As you can see these two verses show Satan both in heaven with God and walking to and fro upon the earth he was free to travel back and forth. This is scripture not my word.
As you can see these verses suggest no such thing because simply put one has to assume that 1) the term 'sons of God' refers to angels, when clearly the term means no such thing and that 2) the only place these 'sons of God' could have presented themselves was in 'Heaven.'So as you can see in order for you to make the scenario fit that Satan is free to go back and forth between Heaven and earth one has to assume the meaning of something that doesn't mean what is being said.The words used are ben #1121 for son, grandson, child, member of a group, builder of a name. No where in Dr. Strong's concordance does the word ever refer to angels. the second word is 'elohiym #430 and in it widest and most specific use refers to the supreme God.Common sense dictates that if the Bible tells us satan was cast down to earth and was in the garden, walking on the earth in Job, with Jesus in the wilderness, and working as the prince of the air in Pauls day that Satan doesn't have the ability to go back and forth from Heaven and earth. If stan was cast out where pray tell is there even one scripture that says he was let back in to Heaven.Just one.
 

HammerStone

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Actually that would be a lie RND.http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon...121&Version=kjvIf you'll take the time to read your Strong's, you'll easily see that it does indeed mean "members of the heavenly court" (10b and 10b1).I realize you're quick to try and validate your traditions, but they are not supported by the Bible. Sons of God here clearly refers to angels just as it does in Genesis 6:2. It doesn't say the sons of God and Satan. It says the sons of God of which Satan was one because he was/is an angel.
 

RND

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Revelation 12:7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.This comes after the child was born - the child that clearly is our Savior. Michael is the one restraining Satan in heaven by God's will:
Ok, then we need pure logic to surmise who then was in the Garden.The serpent was in the garden before Christ was born. So, then is the Bible mistaken? Or is it possible that John is reiterating scripture to remind us of the history of how Satan came to earth?If the Bible tells us that the devil is that old serpent and we read of a serpent in the garden then can we assume then that satan was kicked out of Heaven before the birth of Christ?
Jude 1:9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
And this happened where? Heaven or earth? Moses bones were where? Moses died in Heaven or Earth?
As Kriss documented, he was present as long ago as Job. He has yet to be kicked out of heaven when he comes to this earth:
Then who is Peter talking about walking about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour?Who was in the Garden?
Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
The devil is come down unto you as in this has already happened, not as in this is something that is going to happened in the future.
I've yet to see any pope snap his fingers and create lightning...
Ah, but you've certainly heard about Marian apparitions haven't you? Or have you forgotten about the wonderous miricles that Pharoahs magicians and sorcerers were able to produce?Maybe your forgot Christ admonition:Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.Now, if that doesn't sound like an ability to make a false holy spirit and false signs and wonders then I don't what does.
 

RND

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Actually that would be a lie RND.http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon...121&Version=kjv
Actually, if you rely on the actual book, which is what I do and not on the web page, you'll find the book is much more complete and hence honest that the web page you cited.My actual Strong'd concordance says nothing about angels when refering to the word 'ben.' So in that case Denver, I would appreciate you not calling me a liar, I use the book, not the web site for accuracy.
If you'll take the time to read your Strong's, you'll easily see that it does indeed mean "members of the heavenly court" (10b and 10b1).
This is what the web site says. However, check your actual concordance and you'll never see the word 'angel' used even once.Sounds to me if someone on the web page has and agenda.
I realize you're quick to try and validate your traditions, but they are not supported by the Bible.
Nope, just looking for clariffication and honesty.
Sons of God here clearly refers to angels just as it does in Genesis 6:2. It doesn't say the sons of God and Satan. It says the sons of God of which Satan was one because he was/is an angel.
Sorry, you have to make an illogical leap of faith to get that. 'Sons of God' always deal with those that join themselves to the Lord. One has to stretch clear meaning to get this notion to fit a strange theology about angels sexing it up with women.
 

HammerStone

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If the Bible tells us that the devil is that old serpent and we read of a serpent in the garden then can we assume then that satan was kicked out of Heaven before the birth of Christ?
Well why don't you let the Word speak on it for once:Revelation 12:5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.These verses clearly precedes the following which I have already given in this topic. Following your logic Jesus was born twice at this point...Kai is the Greek here, clearly meaning in continuation. That presents a real problem to say Satan has been strolling around on this Earth.
Then who is Peter talking about walking about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour?
Satan is obviously never really concerned with physical destruction. Let common sense dictate here. He is like a lion seeking whom he may devour. This is clearly referring to the spiritual threat of Satan.
Ah, but you've certainly heard about Marian apparitions haven't you? Or have you forgotten about the wonderous miricles that Pharoahs magicians and sorcerers were able to produce?Maybe your forgot Christ admonition:
Maybe you're skipping over that word there called many. Revelation 13 is talking about THE antichrist.Revelation 13:11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,Like I said, I missed that pope.I John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last timeThere are many antichrists, but clearly only one that snaps his fingers and make lighting come down.
 

HammerStone

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Actually, if you rely on the actual book, which is what I do and not on the web page, you'll find the book is much more complete and hence honest that the web page you cited.My actual Strong'd concordance says nothing about angels when refering to the word 'ben.' So in that case Denver, I would appreciate you not calling me a liar, I use the book, not the web site for accuracy.
You know, I expected better out of you RND. I invite anyone to open up their Strong's - new or old - and you'll read a ways but you will see it. It's there. Don't listen to this LIAR. Don't even believe me, look it up.I don't mind you agreeing, but a liar is not welcome. Maybe it's time for you to move on. I won't tolerate a liar.
 

n2thelight

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RNDhere is a study on the Sons of God,hope it helps23. "THE SONS OF GOD" IN GEN. 6:2, 4.It is only by the Divine specific act of creation that any created being can be called "a son of God". For that which is "born of the flesh is flesh". God is spirit, and that which is "born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). Hence Adam is called a "son of God" in Luke 3:38. Those "in Christ" having "the new nature" which is by the direct creation of God (2Cor. 5:17. Eph. 2:10) can be, and are called "sons of God" (John 1:13. Rom. 8:14, 15. 1John 3:1). (*1) This is why angels are called "sons of God" in every other place where the expression is used in the Old Testament. Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Ps. 29:1; 89:6. Dan. 3:25 (no art.). (*2) We have no authority or right to take the expression in Gen. 6:2, 4 in any other sense. Moreover, in Gen. 6:2 the Sept. renders it "angels". Angels are called "spirits" (Ps. 104:4. Heb. 1:7, 14), for spirits are created by God. That there was a fall of the angels is certain from Jude 6. The nature of their fall is clearly stated in the same verse. They left their own oijkhthvrion (oiketerion). This word occurs only in 2Cor. 5:2 and Jude 6, where it is used of the spiritual (or resurrection) body. The nature of their sin is stated to be "in like manner" to that of the subsequent sins of Sodom and Gomorrha, Jude 7. The time of their fall is given as having taken place "in the days of Noah" (1Pet. 3:20. 2Pet. 2:7), though there may have been a prior fall which caused the end of "the world that then was" (Gen. 1:1, 2. 2Pet. 3:6). For this sin they are "reserved unto judgment", 2Pet. 2:4, and are "in prison", 1Pet. 3:19. Their progeny, called Nephilim (translated "giants"), were monsters of iniquity; and, being superhuman in size and character, had to be destroyed (see Ap. 25). This was the one and only object of the Flood. Only Noah and his family had preserved their pedigree pure from Adam (Gen. 6:9, see note). All the rest had become "corrupt" (shachath) destroyed [as Adamites]. the only remedy was to destroy it (de facto), as it had become destroyed (de jure). (It is the same word in v. 17 as in vv. 11, 12.) See further under Ap. 25 on the Nephilim. This irruption of fallen angels was Satan's first attempt to prevent the coming of the Seed of the woman foretold in gen. 3:15. If this could be accomplished, God's Word would have failed, and his own doom would be averted. As soon as it was made known that the Seed of the woman was to come through ABRAHAM, there must have been another irruption, as recorded in Gen. 6:4, "and also after that" (i.e. after the days of Noah, more than 500 years after the first irruption). The aim of the enemy was to occupy Canaan in advance of Abraham, and so to contest its occupation by his seed. For, when Abraham entered Canaan, we read (Gen. 12:6) "the Canaanite was then (i.e. already) in the land." In the same chapter (Gen. 12:10-20) we see Satan's next attempt to interfere with Abraham's seed, and frustrate the purpose of God that it should be in "Isaac". This attempt was repeated in 20:1-18. This great conflict may be seen throughout the Bible, and it forms a great and important subject of Biblical study. In each case the human instrument had his own personal interest to serve, while Satan had his own great object in view. Hence God had, in each case, to interfere and avert the evil and the danger, of which his servants and people were wholly ignorant. The following assaults of the great Enemy stand out prominently :-- The destruction of the chosen family by famine, Gen. 50:20. The destruction of the male line in Israel, Ex. 1:10, 15, &c. Cp. Ex. 2:5. Heb. 11:23. The destruction of the whole nation in Pharaoh's pursuit, Ex. 14. After David's line was singled out (2Sam. 7), that was the next selected for assault. Satan's first assault was in the union of Jehoram and Athaliah by Jehoshaphat, notwithstanding 2Chron. 17:1. Jehoram killed off all his brothers (2Chron. 21:4). The Arabians slew all his children, except Ahaziah (2Chron. 21:17; 22:1). When Ahaziah died, Athaliah killed "all the seed royal" (2Chron. 22:10). the babe Joash alone was rescued; and, for six years, the faithfulness of Jehovah's word was at stake (2Chron. 23:3). Hezekiah was childless, when a double assault was made by the King of Assyria and the King of Terrors (Isa. 36:1; 38:1). God's faithfulness was appealed to and relied on (Ps. 136). In Captivity, Haman was used to attempt the destruction of the whole nation (Est. 3:6, 12, 13. Cp. 6:1). Joseph's fear was worked on (Matt. 1:18-20). Notwithstanding the fact that he was "a just man", and kept the Law, he did not wish to have Mary stoned to death (Deut. 24:1); hence Joseph determined to divorce her. But God intervened : "Fear not". Herod sought the young Child's life (Matt. 2). At the Temptation, "Cast Thyself down" was Satan's temptation. At Nazareth, again (Luke 4), there was another attempt to cast Him down and destroy Him. The two storms on the Lake were other attempts. At length the cross was reached, and the sepulcher closed; the watch set; and the stone sealed. But "God raised Him from the dead." And now, like another Joash, He is seated and expecting (Heb. 10:12, 13), hidden in the house of God on high; and the members of "the one body" are hidden there "in Him" (Col. 3:1-3), like another Jehoshaba; and going forth to witness of His coming, like another Jehoiada (2Chron. 23:3). The irruption of "the fallen angels" ("sons of God") was the first attempt; and was directed against the whole human race. When Abraham was called, then he and his seed were attacked. When David was enthroned, then the royal line were attacked. And when "the Seed of the woman" Himself came, then the storm burst upon Him. Appendix 23 of the companion Bible
 

Faithful

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If you'll take the time to read your Strong's, you'll easily see that it does indeed mean "members of the heavenly court" (10b and 10b1).I realize you're quick to try and validate your traditions, but they are not supported by the Bible. Sons of God here clearly refers to angels just as it does in Genesis 6:2. It doesn't say the sons of God and Satan. It says the sons of God of which Satan was one because he was/is an angel.
The word Jesus said, John 8:44 (King James Version)44.Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.Ezekiel 28:13-15 (King James Version) 13.Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14.Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.I believe Satan was and is the Father of all lies and deceit. And I believe that is was because like Adam he has free will. Satan chose to do evil knowing the difference between good and evil. But Adam did not make a choice knowing the difference between good and evil.
Genesis 3:22 (King James Version) 22.And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
It is clear everyone knew good and evil but Adam and Eve. I believe this was because God knows everything and even from the foundation of the earth, he knew what Satan would do. And mankind has a choice, to believe what God says about his Son Jesus Christ and to live in love.:angel9:
 

jodycour

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What do you think is going to happen when Satan gets kicked out of heaven to earth???? You think he is going to quitely appear in the desert someplace? I have shown you scripture time and again that Satan gets kicked to earth. God says he wants to be christ/god he always has.Do I have exact scripture saying he come in the clouds no that description is held for Christ, I have exact scripture saying there will be lightenting andSatan will be kicked out of heaven to earth. Can you picture that???If you dont believe it. then you you deny what scripture says it is what the Whole book of revelation is leading to tell you. It is what the end times are about.
Yes, Kriss,I believe that Satan will have great power to do incredible things.But the people riding on physical horses coming down with Jesus to destroy the Anti-Christ physical Army will be physical people who were raptured previously.I believe that this will be the Church and the dead in Christ that will rise in the Rapture before the Tribulation period. This is where the time of the Gentiles will end.
 

Christina

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What do you base this on Jody? Heres my thought/question Why would this be nessary? If we are All instanly changed at the seventh trump when Christ arrives as scripture says And Satan and his angels are angels. why would they have to be physical people? No one else will be physical
 

RND

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(Denver;13692)
You know, I expected better out of you RND. I invite anyone to open up their Strong's - new or old - and you'll read a ways but you will see it. It's there. Don't listen to this LIAR. Don't even believe me, look it up.
Well, it's certainly disapoointing to see you Denver revert to using name calling. But then again, only Satan makes a railing accusation against another brother.Denver, here is the verbatim from my Strong's Concordance, purchased from the Shepperd's Chappel, in 2005 and from Hendrikson Publisher's.Page 21 of the Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary:#1121 ben, bane; from 1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figureative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., [like 1, 251, etc.]);-+ afflicted, age, [Aloch-] [Ammon] [Hachmon] [Lev-]ite, [annoint-]ed one, appointed to, (+) arrow, [Assyr-] [Babylon-] [Egypt-] [Grec-]ian, one born, bough, branch, breed, + (young) bullock, + (young) calf, x came up in, child, colt, x common, x corn, daughter, x of first, = firstborn, foal, + very fruitful, = postage, x in, = kid, = lamb, (+) people, + rebel, + robber, x servant born, x soldier, son, + spark, + steward, + stranger, x surely, them of, + tumulyuous one, + valiant[-est], whelp, worthy, young (one), youth.This is the exact context for Strong's Number 1121 of son (ben) as taken directly from the book. As anyone can plainly see the inference for angel is not used, anywhere in this definition for 'son.'Fortunately, there are other sources on the internet that have properly used the exact wording of the Strong's in their use of these definitions:The HTMBible: 1121 Ben
I don't mind you agreeing, but a liar is not welcome. Maybe it's time for you to move on. I won't tolerate a liar.
I think you might be right about this. God Bless.
 

Christina

New Member
Apr 10, 2006
10,885
101
0
15
All I can say is you got a lousey concordance then because the meaning of the word is wrong in yours and even the surrounging scriptures support Strongs not you version. Thats why Strongs is preferred by most bible scholars and supported by hebrew/greek scholars
 

RND

New Member
May 30, 2007
320
4
0
62
(kriss;13737)
All I can say is you got a lousey concordance then because the meaning of the word is wrong in yours and even the surrounging scriptures support Strongs not you version. Thats why Strongs is preferred by most bible scholars and supported by hebrew/greek scholars
What you see is what I typed directly from my Strong's which was purchased from the Shepperd's Chappel in 2005.The link to the Strong's Concordance above is also seemingly accurate to the version in my Strong's.