Eternal Security

GodsGrace · Nov 17, 2021

Taken said:
You can abandon believing...UNLESS you have Become Converted...according to Gods WAY....which IS Specifically BY the mans Exercising His FREEWILL Of confessing True HEARTFUL Belief.
Once a man by his own freewill confesses his True Heartful Belief....
By Gods Works that mans BODY becomes Spiritually dead...crucified with Christ!
His spirit becomes Born Again via Gods Seed....

Clearly Scripture teaches this is a permanent ACT of the man....clearly Scripture teaches To BE Sure of your choice. Your yes is yes, your no is no.
There is no “changing your mind”
The decision For a yes Confession WAS never by a Confession OF your Mind....Gods WAY of Confession is precisely of a man Hearts Thoughts.

Immediately After a man MAKES a Heartful Confession...
The man becomes Bodily dead, man given a new heart, man given Gods Seed, Gods Seed Births man a new spirit....and you think man can UNDO those Works of God?
Nothing in Scripture teaches such a thing.
Perhaps God can UNDO those things?
Impossible...because that would MAKE God a liar.

Could you post some verses please?

Where does scripture state it is a permanent act?

I do agree that we believe with the heart....
but we can also come to disbelieve...for instance when tribulation comes along,
Jesus stated belief can be lost in Luke 8:13.
Jesus stated this again in Luke 15:24

I tend to pay attention when Jesus talks.

BTW, let your yes be yes and your no be no has nothing to do with the topic of salvation.

amadeus · Nov 17, 2021

Truman said:
Natural branches are being grafted back in...praise God!

Amen!

GodsGrace · Nov 17, 2021

Taken said:
False.

Well of course NOT!
I never said a man could not lose Belief.
Specifically A Converted SavED man Can NOT lose Belief!

No. The Word Of God Does NOT Agree with what You Said “For Me”.
So? I do not Agree with what you said “for me”.

Oh,,,I had already replied to your post....

So, can you please exegete for us the following verse?
Matthew 5:37
“But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes ‘ or ‘No, no’ anything beyond these is of evil."
Thanks.

As for losing belief, my friend, it is YOU that does not agree with either Jesus or Paul...

Luke 8:13
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

Jesus said they believe for a while....
In time of temptation they fall away...

Luke 15:24
24for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.

Jesus said they celebrated because the son had come to life AGAIN.

And, of course, Paul agreed with his teacher and God...
Here's just one verse....I could list many.

Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

marks · Nov 17, 2021

amigo de christo said:
I think its high time again to just praise and thank the glorious LORD .

Oh, don't you know, it's time to praise the LORD!
In the sanctuary of His Holy Spirit.
So set you mind on Him
And let your praise begin
And the glory of the LORD will fill this place!
Praise the LORD!!!

GodsGrace · Nov 17, 2021

marks said:
Can you stop believing? I don't think so, but I also think that's the wrong question.

Imagine . . . you are watching a race that was run yesterday. You already know the results. True Blood came in first. And there you watch, on the screen, True Blood is coming around the first lap, and someone asks you, What if True Blood stumbles? Can't he stumble? What if he tires? Can't that happen? You already know . . . True Blood is going to finish this race, and will win it.

If the jockey doesn't ride him right he's not going to win. If True Blood gets distracted he won't win.

If you were raised with Christ . . . you shall appear with Him in glory.

You already know the result. Christ in you - the faith-filled expectation of glory.

Much love!

God knows all....
He knows that one can come to believe and then lose that belief....
(Much like your horse race).

The N.T. is full of verses to support the above.
Again marks, one verse does not a doctrine make.

Guess you can't post a different one....

GodsGrace · Nov 17, 2021

farouk said:
@GodsGrace The fact that someone professes for a while does not mean that s/he was ever a true believer...

One could profess what one wishes to.

If someone believes for a while....he is saved.
Belief = Salvation

If he loses that belief...he is no longer saved.
No Belief = No Salvation

marks · Nov 17, 2021

GodsGrace said:
God knows all....
He knows that one can come to believe and then lose that belief....
(Much like your horse race).

I agree with you, He does know, and that knowledge shows in the statements made. Belief by itself doesn't save. Demons believe, they are not saved. But our God Who knows the outcome for everyone's life, has said, if you've been raised with Jesus, you shall also appear with Him.

Much love!

marks · Nov 17, 2021

GodsGrace said:
Again marks, one verse does not a doctrine make.

No verse is rendered false by the true understanding of another verse. If you think this verse doesn't say what the English translations all say it does, let's look at that.

So far, no one has made given that as a response, only, that I shouldn't take it that way, because these other verses sound like something different.

And it's not the only one, but I do like it for it's simplicity. Again, no true understand of Scripture is going to make a part of it false.

Much love!

Ferris Bueller · Nov 17, 2021

marks said:
You cannot change your parentage. You just cannot!

I used to be a child of the devil.
Weren't you?

GodsGrace · Nov 17, 2021

marks said:
What work exactly is this you have in mind that we are to do?

Do you mean to exert our willpower over our fleshy weaknesses? To control our behavior by our determination to do this, and not do that?

Much love!

No...
By work I, and others that speak of work, mean ANYTHING we do to promote the Kingdom of God on this earth.

It might be a specific work which God might or might not have planned for us.
If this is so then the measure of faith we receive, Romans 12:3, will be for this reason.

Or, it can be anything at all.
For some it could be taking care of a family...
For some it could mean doing their job honestly...
Maybe it's just smiling at a cashier that's a little upset...

Anything that we do that is good can be considered a good deed and will be welcomed by God in His Kingdom.

Jesus taught that we are to change now.

Galatians 6:9
Hebrews 10:24
Titus 2:7-8
7in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified,
8sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.

GodsGrace · Nov 17, 2021

marks said:
I agree with you, He does know, and that knowledge shows in the statements made. Belief by itself doesn't save. Demons believe, they are not saved. But our God Who knows the outcome for everyone's life, has said, if you've been raised with Jesus, you shall also appear with Him.

Much love!

How do you think demons believe?

Do they believe in Jesus as in...Jesus is the demon's Lord?
Do they have saving belief?

Demons believe but are not saved shows a misunderstanding of the word BELIEVE as is used in the N.T.
Your argument is moot.

marks · Nov 17, 2021

GodsGrace said:
Where does scripture state it is a permanent act?

When He says that if you've been raised with Him . . . you shall appear with Him in glory. This tells us God's act of resurrection in our lives will see us all the way through.

Same as saying that the Holy Spirit is God's seal of ownership on us . . . unto the day of salvation. It will go the distance. Kept by the power of God through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed. Not received. Revealed. Its already been received.

Much love!

GodsGrace · Nov 17, 2021

marks said:
No verse is rendered false by the true understanding of another verse. If you think this verse doesn't say what the English translations all say it does, let's look at that.

So far, no one has made given that as a response, only, that I shouldn't take it that way, because these other verses sound like something different.

And it's not the only one, but I do like it for it's simplicity. Again, no true understand of Scripture is going to make a part of it false.

Much love!

marks...
I exegeted the verse for you a few posts back.

Sometimes we read verses but do not take them in context because we love what they SEEM to say.
Do you wish to go over this verse that you so love again?

marks · Nov 17, 2021

GodsGrace said:
Demons believe but are not saved shows a misunderstanding of the word BELIEVE as is used in the N.T.

Yes, that is my point, demons believe and are not saved, witness their several times telling Jesus they knew Who He is, but they remained demons, not born again.

And so you can "receive the word immediately with joy", you can believe, and in a time of testing fall away, because the word had no root. Demons believe and are not born again, and humans who believe, but are not born again, are tested, and fail the test, and fall away.

Peter tells us that the testing proves the genuiness of faith in those who are reborn. Not just believing, but born again. Those who are born again are proven true, and those who have been raised with Christ shall also appear with Him.

Much love!

marks · Nov 17, 2021

GodsGrace said:
marks...
I exegeted the verse for you a few posts back.

Sometimes we read verses but do not take them in context because we love what they SEEM to say.
Do you wish to go over this verse that you so love again?

I love them all, you know, whether you think so or not, you truly do not know me. You have no idea the place Scripture takes in my life.

Anyway, I think I missed that one, I'll take a look.

Much love!

GodsGrace · Nov 17, 2021

marks said:
When He says that if you've been raised with Him . . . you shall appear with Him in glory. This tells us God's act of resurrection in our lives will see us all the way through.

Same as saying that the Holy Spirit is God's seal of ownership on us . . . unto the day of salvation. It will go the distance. Kept by the power of God through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed. Not received. Revealed. Its already been received.

Much love!

I dislike debating this with you because you are NOT one of those that state they can live as they want to and still be saved.
You, OTOH, are a follower of Jesus but just happen to believe in OSAS.

If we have been raised with Jesus we will also appear with Him.
God will see us all the way through.
IF, we hold fast until the end.
Hebrews 3:14
14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Paul stated the above because he knew we could fall away.
He was worried HE might fall away....
1 Corinthians 9:27
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

GodsGrace · Nov 17, 2021

marks said:
Yes, that is my point, demons believe and are not saved, witness their several times telling Jesus they knew Who He is, but they remained demons, not born again.

And so you can "receive the word immediately with joy", you can believe, and in a time of testing fall away, because the word had no root. Demons believe and are not born again, and humans who believe, but are not born again, are tested, and fail the test, and fall away.

Peter tells us that the testing proves the genuiness of faith in those who are reborn. Not just believing, but born again. Those who are born again are proven true, and those who have been raised with Christ shall also appear with Him.

Much love!

The word had no root.

But Jesus said the person in Luke 8 believed.
The person heard the word with joy.

Demons are not joyful at hearing the word.
They do not believe the same way we do when we hear the gospel and come to believe in God.

The "demon debate" just won't cut it.

I hope you know what the word BELIEVE means in the Koine Greek in which the N.T. was written...

marks · Nov 17, 2021

GodsGrace said:
marks...
I exegeted the verse for you a few posts back.

Sometimes we read verses but do not take them in context because we love what they SEEM to say.
Do you wish to go over this verse that you so love again?

Can you tell me which post? I'm not seeing an exegesis of the passage.

Much love!

marks · Nov 17, 2021

GodsGrace said:
Do you wish to go over this verse that you so love again?

Yes, absolutely!

Much love!

GodsGrace · Nov 17, 2021

marks said:
Can you tell me which post? I'm not seeing an exegesis of the passage.

Much love!

It's post 398...

Here it is:

marks...
I learned early on that it's really important to read everything in context.
The verse ITSELF (Colossians 3:1-3) gives us conditions.

Colossians 3:1-3
1Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

The conditions are to KEEP SEEKING...
To SET OUR MIND on things above...
Christ must be OUR LIFE...

To not see these as conditions is to skip over some parts of the verses.

I'd also like to bring your attention to some writings of Paul just below the above...

Colossians 3:5-17
Paul gives instructions on how we are to behave, about how our new self is being renewed.
Then Paul goes on in giving instruction to wives, husbands and slaves..
and hear what Paul says in...

Colossians 3:25
For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and
that without partiality.

Doing right or doing wrong is our choice..and we will be judged by this.

Eternal Security

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