Eternal Security

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marks

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The person heard the word with joy.

Received it immediately with Joy, yes! But even so, had no root.

Matthew 13:5-6 KJV
5) Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6) And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Matthew 13:20-21 KJV
20) But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21) Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Compare to,

Matthew 13:23 KJV
23) But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

In the one, there is no root. In the other, the Word, the seed, bears fruit.

1 Peter 1:23 KJV
23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

And,

1 Peter 1:6-7 KJV
6) Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

The trial of your faith, you this is "proving", the proving of your faith . . . might be found unto praise and honor and glory.

We receive the implanted Word, which lives and remains forever, and when we are tested, we are proven.

Manufacture a steel bar, and test it to show it's hardness. Testing it will not make it harder or softer, it will only show the hardness.

Much love!
 

Truman

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Oh, don't you know, it's time to praise the LORD!
In the sanctuary of His Holy Spirit.
So set you mind on Him
And let your praise begin
And the glory of the LORD will fill this place!
Praise the LORD!!!
Glory, hallelujah, amen!!! Lol
 

kcnalp

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I knew men Against Gods Word could Not Prove WITH Gods Word that Gods Word is NOT True!

I have Zero problem with Rejecting your False claims.
I have zero problem pointing out your claims are NOT supported BY Gods Word.
I have zero problem with you identifying yourself as being vulnerable to Falling Away from God.
Your Rejection of Christ Jesus’ Offering to Become Sav-ED now and Kept Sav-ED Forever unto God....IS absolutely your Freewill option to choose or Reject ... And has Zero Effect on my Freewill choice to have Accepted Christ Jesus’ Offering to me.

Yes I rightly Judge to Reject your False Preaching Against Gods Word.
I have zero concern IF you notice your False Preaching IS being Rejected.
I find it sad you try to deflect to you being Judged instead of Supporting your position With Gods Word.
It’s not About YOU.
It is about Gods Truth!
No Scripture? I have plenty.

John 15:6 (NKJV)
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Amen Jesus!
 

marks

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It's post 398...

Here it is:

marks...
I learned early on that it's really important to read everything in context.
The verse ITSELF (Colossians 3:1-3) gives us conditions.

Colossians 3:1-3
1Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

The conditions are to KEEP SEEKING...
To SET OUR MIND on things above...
Christ must be OUR LIFE...

To not see these as conditions is to skip over some parts of the verses.

I'd also like to bring your attention to some writings of Paul just below the above...

Colossians 3:5-17
Paul gives instructions on how we are to behave, about how our new self is being renewed.
Then Paul goes on in giving instruction to wives, husbands and slaves..
and hear what Paul says in...

Colossians 3:25
For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and
that without partiality.

Doing right or doing wrong is our choice..and we will be judged by this.
OK, thank you!

To me, an exegesis is more like taking the words and phrases, and looking at the Greek meanings and grammar, and identifying how the words are being used, what they mean in their immediate context, and what that phrase itself is saying. Then collecting the phrases together into their thoughts, and determine the proper reading and meaning of the passage. Then of course I want to compare that to all the parallel passages, and everything else I can think of that might relate. On the topic of eternal security, there are hundreds, of course, and I had to spend a few years examining them.

In this case,
If we be raised with Christ, seek the things which are above, where Christ is.

ei - if // oun - then // sunEgerthEte - you were together raised with // to christo - the Christ // to ano - the above // zeteite - ye be seeking

Sunegerthete - raised together with. This is passive voice aorist tense, something that is done to you, in a simple past tense would be the most basic interpretation.

If then, that is, if the following condition is met

you were raised together with Christ, that is, the condition to be met, for the following to apply

the above be seeking, that is, what you are to do if you are qualified under this condition. Seeking is in present active, do it now, whenever "now" is, making this continuing.

Something to note, "raised together", "sun" used here as a prefix, for together, is also used in verse 4, "shall be revealed together with Him"

This is also the same construction in Galatians 2:22, I have been crucified together with Christ, literally, co-crucified with Christ, here, co-raised with Christ, to co-appear with Christ.

The above be seeking, this is a command, and will apply to whomever is the antecedant, in this case, the one who fulfills the condition just given, that is, the one who was raised with Christ.

In saying, Co-raised with Christ, As He was raised so were we. We are not being raised, a continuing act, as neither is He, and, the verb tenses agree.

To me, this is more like exegesis, to examine the text and show what is written there. We can get to what it all means later, once we've agreed on what is written.

Much love!
 
Last edited:

marks

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No Scripture? I have plenty.

John 15:6 (NKJV)
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Amen Jesus!

If anyone did not abide in the ark, they were drowned by the flood. Many were drowned in the flood, because they did not abide in the ark.

If I were to imagine Noah, a preacher of righteousness, "Come, abide in the ark with me and be safe! If you don't you will die!" But they did not abide in the ark, and were drowned.

Much love!
 

kcnalp

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If anyone did not abide in the ark, they were drowned by the flood. Many were drowned in the flood, because they did not abide in the ark.

If I were to imagine Noah, a preacher of righteousness, "Come, abide in the ark with me and be safe! If you don't you will die!" But they did not abide in the ark, and were drowned.

Much love!
What does that have to do with my comment?
 

marks

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Colossians 3:1-3
1Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

The conditions are to KEEP SEEKING...
To SET OUR MIND on things above...
Christ must be OUR LIFE...


To not see these as conditions is to skip over some parts of the verses.

Skipping ahead to verse 2, "set your mind on things above"

ta ano - the above // phroneite - be being mindful // me - not // ta epi tes ges // the upon the earth

phroneite, from phroneo, to exercise the mind, from phren, of the mind, or cognition. This appears as a present active verb, something you do, and ongoing.

the things upon the earth, earth from ges, land, the planet. As a phrase, this is more comprehensive than "cosmos", often translated "world", the "orderly arrangment", such as, love not the world, or the things in the world, for example, don't love riches, or institutions, or TV, or social circles, or like that. Here, don't be mindful of anything on this planet, instead, set yourself to be thinking about what is above.

The form of statement is Imperative, a command, and applies to whatever takes the position of the antecedant. Here, that would be the same as the previous clause, specifically, the one who was co-raised with Christ.

Much love!
 

marks

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What does that have to do with my comment?
If you don't abide in Christ, you are cast forth as a branch to be gathered and burned.

It's exactly like, if you didn't abide in the ark, you were drowned in the flood.

Saying, you must abide in Christ doesn't also somehow say that those who do not once did.

Much love!
 

GRACE ambassador

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op: Eternal Security?

or, is it actually a hoax? IF you don't work, go to church, keep believing, etc. etc.
etc. = ALL man-made Conditions Changing God's ETERNAL Salvation Into:

man-made "temporary" salvation! The Eternal question for these temporarilists,
is:

Do you feel that you Could stand Before God, and give an account TO HIM,
That ALL 12 Dozen of HIS Plain And Clear Passages About HIS Doctrine,

"are ALL false?:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

just wondering...
 

Taken

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Just one of the reasons I agree with you, rebirth is permanent. You don't undo it any more than you can stop having been born from your earthy parents.

Born from God is exactly that, born from God.

Much love!

Oh ok gotcha!
:)
 
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kcnalp

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If you don't abide in Christ, you are cast forth as a branch to be gathered and burned.

It's exactly like, if you didn't abide in the ark, you were drowned in the flood.

Saying, you must abide in Christ doesn't also somehow say that those who do not once did.

Much love!
If you don't abide in Christ that means you WERE in Christ, refuting OSAS.
 

farouk

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One could profess what one wishes to.

If someone believes for a while....he is saved.
Belief = Salvation

If he loses that belief...he is no longer saved.
No Belief = No Salvation
Never saved in the first place, else the efficacy of work of Christ would be put in doubt.
 

GodsGrace

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Received it immediately with Joy, yes! But even so, had no root.

Matthew 13:5-6 KJV
5) Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6) And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

Matthew 13:20-21 KJV
20) But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21) Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
marks, there's no difference between Matthew and Luke.
What would we be able to trust in the N.T. if there WAS a difference!

In Matthew 13:21 Jesus is explaining the parable of the sower.
Jesus explained that the seed DURETH FOR A WHILE, dureth for a while means that the belief was TEMPORARY and when affliction arises,
he falls away. Jesus also says that the word was received with JOY.

Matthew 13:20-21 NASB
20“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.


Exactly the same as your version of the N.T.
The word was received with joy....unbelievers are not joyful at the good news, but only believers.
They believed for a while - temporarily saved.
When affliction came, they fell away.

What did they fall away from?


Compare to,

Matthew 13:23 KJV
23) But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

In the one, there is no root. In the other, the Word, the seed, bears fruit.

1 Peter 1:23 KJV
23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

For Matthew 13:23, compare to this:
John 15:2a
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;

Jesus is saying that those that are born again but do NOT bear fruit, will be taken away by God Father.

As to 1 Peter 1:23....
We are not born of corruptible seed....material things we gather in this life will fade away.
The incorruptible seed is the word of God and will never fade away...we should stop focusing on this life
and focus on the life to come that will last for eternity.
[/QUOTE]



And,

1 Peter 1:6-7 KJV
6) Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

The trial of your faith, you this is "proving", the proving of your faith . . . might be found unto praise and honor and glory.

We receive the implanted Word, which lives and remains forever, and when we are tested, we are proven.

Manufacture a steel bar, and test it to show it's hardness. Testing it will not make it harder or softer, it will only show the hardness.

Much love!
you forgot that part in 1 Peter 1:6-7 that states that we must be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus.
Our faith must REMAIN strong....

Peter goes on throughout his letter to exhort us to doing good deeds and to loving one another...
 

Ferris Bueller

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Satan spawn? Interesting!

I'm curious . . . why do you think you were born from Satan?
You just don't understand the analogy of being a son, lol.
You seem to think that you and the Holy Spirit got together and had a baby, lol.
That's not what being a son of God is about.
And because you can't understand that correctly, you don't understand what it means to be a child of the devil, which you were most certainly were at one time:

"10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God" 1 John 3:10
 
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GodsGrace

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Never saved in the first place, else the efficacy of work of Christ would be put in doubt.
Farouk,
Never saved in the first place is not shown to be anywhere in the N.T.
I'd like to see some verse regarding this.

The never saved to begin with idea comes from the reformed faith...or some call it Calvinism.
This would be the P in the acronym T.U.L.I.P.

The P stands for Perseverance of the Saints.
IOW,,,those that God chooses for salvation will never lose their salvation.

However, this is not what John Calvin state.
He stated that some to taste salvation only to lose it by His (God's) hand.

If you care to read the above, please see
The Institutes of the Christian Religion
Book 3
Chapter 24
Paragraph 8

You could find it on google by typing in the above.

IOW,,,this is a calvinist teaching and not a mainline Christian teaching.
 

farouk

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Farouk,
Never saved in the first place is not shown to be anywhere in the N.T.
I'd like to see some verse regarding this.

The never saved to begin with idea comes from the reformed faith...or some call it Calvinism.
This would be the P in the acronym T.U.L.I.P.

The P stands for Perseverance of the Saints.
IOW,,,those that God chooses for salvation will never lose their salvation.

However, this is not what John Calvin state.
He stated that some to taste salvation only to lose it by His (God's) hand.

If you care to read the above, please see
The Institutes of the Christian Religion
Book 3
Chapter 24
Paragraph 8

You could find it on google by typing in the above.

IOW,,,this is a calvinist teaching and not a mainline Christian teaching.
John 3.16 is not about being saved then lost. Before one believes one is not saved, then to 'whosoever believeth in Him' salvation is assured for everlasting life; that everlasting life does not go away.

Philippians 1.6: 'He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ'.