The Rapture Of The Church

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Tama

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Kriss - those verses describe God's vengeance. He even called that day a day of vengeance. But never specified who's blood. I think it's blood of all the punishments he brought up on nations
 

Christina

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Well, Kriss the word tells us that the Blood will flow all the way up to Jesus Garment,after that battle with Jesus! I don't recall spiritual beings having blood!I believe the Church and the dead in Christ will rise first, because I still believe that we will be in the way to hinder the Anti-Christ from being able to decieve the world! Then we will be the ones riding the horses with Christ when he comes to defeat the Anti-Christ!Rev.19:12-21Notice all of this is done directly after the Marriage supper of the Lamb!II Thes.2:6-7
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.where does it say church will be raised ?I agree some of the blood is from people killed, and trampling nations.(in verse 3)but his robe is already stained crimson in verse 1 and there is many scholars who teach that his Robe is crimson from his own Crucifixion, and the blood of the Saints and the prophets that have been slain. He hasnt touched down on earth yet so not everyone has been changed yet.what does that have do to with a raptured church?The word is his sword Christ wont be chopping peoples heads offhis army is not a raptured church.He is seen coming in the clouds with his army there will be a great earthquake the dead will be raised at the sound of the seventh trump we are changed. Isa. and rev. are talking the same day the day of vengance
 

Christina

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Kriss - those verses describe God's vengeance. He even called that day a day of vengeance. But never specified who's blood. I think it's blood of all the punishments he brought up on nations
any bible scholar will tell you Isa. 63 is about the second coming the day of vengeance is the same day as spoken of in Rev. and his second coming. This isn't my personal opinion. When was the first and last time Christ comes for vengeance?Isa 63:4 For the day of vengeance [is] in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. Isa 63:5 And I looked, and [there was] none to help; and I wondered that [there was] none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. Isa 63:6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earththere is many scholars who believe/teach that his Robe is stained crimson from his own Crucifixion, and the blood of the Saints and the prophets and rightous that have been slain. And this is before the factYes when he tramples the nations he gets human blood on him also so you could be right here.
 

n2thelight

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Dec 24, 2006
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Let me ask a questionwhy are you all(rapturist) afraid of the wrath of God,if you belong to Him?My Father can and will protect His own. Another question,do you even know what the wrath of God is? Do you even know what the tribulation is? My Father told me to endure till the end not seek to run away for he who seeks to save his life will lose it Luke 9:24 "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it."Does anyone not wish to comment on my previous post With all of this past and present persecutions of Christains I find it very very hard to believe that Chritains who have not had to go through any of this,especially those of us in the United States truely believe that when it is our time,and it is coming that we should think that we will be some how spared, by way of this false doctrine of the rapture. Guess my question is why do you think you all will be spared when no one else has been? Why are you all special?Let me take the time to show what will be happening to Christains who know the truth during the tribulation,and trust me they won't be trying to fly away,they will be doing the work of the Lord,like I said,until the end. Mark 13:9 "But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake,, for a testimony against them." Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]." Can you understand whats happening here,this is during the time of the anti christ,the tribulation of satan,if you are one of the Elect,you will be broght before satan,it will be at this time that the true speaking of tongues shall happen again,because the Holy Spirit will be speaking through you. During his reign satan cannot touch God's elect Revelation 9:4 "And it was commanded them [Satan and his fallen angels] that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads." (you all will be gone,but those that know the truth will still be here) Give me a break Luke 21:18 "But there shall not an hair of your head perish." Again satan can't touch you,but people will be killed,but it will be at the hands of those who think they are working for God John 16:2 "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." satan however will kill the two witneses,against God 's orders,it is at this time that you can know when Christ will return,because it will be within the hour after the two witneses rise.Revelation 11:12 "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them." Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." Do you all even know who these seven thousand are? Let me say this,those of you who are waiting on the rapture,will be deceived,because you no not the truth,and God will allow you to believe that lie,do you no what lie?well let me tell you,that satan is Christ. These verses from thess are written to you(rapturist)and all others who no not the truth II Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness [deceit] of unrighteousness in [for] them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth," II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion [send them a working of error], that they should a lie;" Now if you go back to verse 3,Paul told you when we will gather back to Christ,and that is only after the anti christ has been revealed II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" The falling away is from the truth,and this rapture that you all are waiting for is not the truth.
 

n2thelight

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The tribulation is nothing but satan's deception,that's why Christ's number 1 warning was for you not to be,(Decieived) but sadly most of you already are. Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Now!let me show you how you will feel when Christ does returnFirst do you remember what Paul said about wanting to present you as a virgin to ChristII Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."II Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."Do you understand these two verses?Let me help you out,Christ has returned to heaven,He is our husband we are His bride,before He returns satan will come pretending to be your husband,and you will become impregnated,thats why Christ would say woe to those who are with child and give suckMark 13:17 "But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!"Jesus is the bridegroom and He has gone for a long period of time from His bride. When He returns He expects to find His bride faithful to Him. When His bride is standing with child in her womb, spiritually speaking it means that she has taken another husband. So why is it "woe to those with child, and to them that give suck?" It means that you have given yourself over to the false christ, to Satan at his arrival, and to "give suck" means that you are in the service of the enemy of our Lord.He's going to feel just like you would if you went away and came back and your wife was pregnant with anothers child.Now back to how you will feel,the shame will be so great that you are going to want to kill yourselfRevelation 6:14 "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."Revelation 6:16 "And said to the mountains and the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"Its going to be at that instant at the moment of His return,you will know that you were deceived.That rapture is simply not scriptual,period.
 

Faithful

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Isaiah 63:1-6. = Isaiah 34:5-17, Jeremiah 49:7-22; Ezekiel 25:12-14 ; Ezekiel 35:1-15 ; Amos 1:11-12 , Obad 1:1-14 , Malachi 1:2-5 ;.Isaiah 63:3.= Revelations 14:20. Rev 19:13 Rev 19:15. Isaiah 63:5.= Isaiah 59:16. References to study to help understand what the prophets are saying.Faithful:angel9:
 

Faithful

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2 Corinthians 11:2-3 (King James Version) 2.For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3.But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.Mark 13:22 (King James Version) 22.For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.Revelation 13:7-9 (King James Version)7.And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8.And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9.If any man have an ear, let him hear.John 6:35-40 (King James Version) 35.And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36.But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37.All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38.For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39.And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40.And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. Faith is to be certain of the things we do not see, so we wait patiently for the Lord to come and save us. He is able to save us to the uttermost that come unto God by him.Jesus said, Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word, that proceeds from the mouth of God. And we know the words that came from Christ were from the mouth of God.2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 (King James Version)10.And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:Jesus said, I am the way the truth and life, no one comes to the Father but by me, if you love me you will keep my commandments. The way and the truth and the life is all in Jesus.Faithful.:angel9:
 

envilleguy

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you need to know what the words mean, you are caught up in what you are talking about, rapture is a joke ,
 

Jordan

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I agree with you n2. Yes, the Lord indeed is our husband, we are indeed a bribe to Him. Like you (N2) said even I......Lots of people are already deceived... I just think alot of people hate to think godly and just do whatever what their instincts or the Devil (take a pick, to me it sounds like the same thing) tells them to do. Which is very unhealthy...No wonder some people's life is very short.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

n2thelight

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This question is taken from a debate between Dr Thomas Ice and Richard Perry.It's a question I wonder if anyone could answer as wellRichard Perry Here’s my question. Is there any Scripture or verses or passages in Scripture that place the return of Christ before either the appearing of the Antichrist, the tribulation period or the Great Tribulation? Any Scripture, nobody has been able to show me any, so far.If you would like you can go here for the whole debatehttp://www.preteristarchive.com/CriticalAr..._ice-perry.html
 

John

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concerning the rapture, I happen to like this verseJohn 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, notice, he is not only praying for his apostles, but also for all who believe, through their message If Jesus is praying for believers not to be taken out of the world, but protected in the world, I think there is a good chance we will be here until his return
 

rwt

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concerning the rapture, I happen to like this verseJohn 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, notice, he is not only praying for his apostles, but also for all who believe, through their message If Jesus is praying for believers not to be taken out of the world, but protected in the world, I think there is a good chance we will be here until his return
Exacly, I am weirdly convinced that you are right.But I'm not sure about your interpretation of... My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message.
 

jodycour

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I know this site is against rapture doctrine. I rather not use that word for it is not in the bible. However, I do believe that the bible clearly teaches "catching away" of certain people. If some want to call this a "rapture", so be it. Maybe this is because I like UFO and abduction stories, but Enoch was caught away. where? To heaven? It does not say. Likewise, so was Elijah. Phillip in Acts experienced a "horizontal rapture" as the Spirit caught him away. The bible has types of things to happen, so I believe that will happen to the "church" as well. When will this be? I cannot say here because I understand that Christians have been at odds over this and I understand that. Some do not believe there is a "rapture" at all if by that one means to fly away. However, that being said, I do believe the bible teaches that when the Lord returns that those who are alive will be transformed to their glorious bodies (in lieu of a rapture) after the resurrection occurs. How can it be otherwise? One cannot inherit the Kingdom with a flesh and blood body. In other words, I think the real issue at stake here is not whether one flies away or not, but if there is a transformation---- that's the real issue regardless of whether one flies or not.Another example of the "catching away" is that of the manchild in Revelation 12. Was that Christ? most theologians teach that, but the manchild was also symbolic of the 144,000 which is why they are sealed in an earlier chapter in Revelation but sing at the heavenly Mount Zion in a later chapter. How did they get there? In other words, I believe in several "catching aways" and don't limit my thinking to a boxed-in view applicable to only one set of people such as the church.I think I gave enough generous latitude to allow tolerance for several viewpoints. If anyone were to vehemently denounce what I stated, I think that emotions (and not biblical doctrine) are coming into play here.
I'm in agreement with tim-from-paI don't know when we will be taken but I do know that we will be taken away!I'm not afraid to be persecuted for Christ, I'm more than willing!I just believe that we are too powerful to be here for the Anti-Christ to make his presence known, why has'nt he appeared yet?Because we have power to rebuke him in the name of Jesus!I really believe that we have to be taken out of the way!
 

Christina

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I believe exactly as we are told. We will be changed caught up at the last trump and not untill him not being here yet isnt because of the strenghth of the church today it is because God has a set time, only the father in heaven knows, and that time isnt here yet just as Jesus told you.Why is it so difficult to listen to what you are being told. He has foretold you all things if you hear himl Cor. 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.The last is 7th 7 comes after 6 everytime when does Anti christ Come ? The sixth trump is this hard to figure out? 1,2,3,4,5,6,7
 

n2thelight

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The Western once-Christian societies shall fall, and with them goes the world; we are just letting you know how they shall fall, so that you can chart the signs of the times, and observe the signposts along the way, to the world's eventual enslavement under the antichrist system, which is outlined in the thirteenth chapter of Revelation. And in alerting you, it may be that perchance you can escape the worst of it. Knowing your enemy's plan goes a long way towards your survival in any battle. There is a subtle long-term program designed to draw you away from Jesus Christ and sound doctrine. And seeing it for what it is may be the edge that you need to enable you to know to what to do as we begin the final run-up to the Tribulation. If you know how your enemy plans to deceive you, you are a lot less likely to be deceived. God always wanted His people to be aware and to be knowledgeable. He also wanted them to be stand-uppers, not lay-downers. At the birth of Christianity, a religion founded upon the blood of the Messiah of God, whom the evil of this world killed and crucified, the early church fought insurmountable odds against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, and they won. Christianity, like a bright light turned on in a dark place, shed forth salvation all over this once-dark world. Many good men and women died for this faith. But now, in the end of the world, it is getting dark again; the light is dimming, not because that light is weak, but that there is none to carry it to the darkness. We have not been good stewards of the the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Many good men died that we could even breath Christ's name aloud. Many were killed, and their whole families too, for simply saying Jesus Christ, Messiah of God. In secret they huddled in home churches fearing the knock on the door, out of their lack and their children's need they gave the Apostles provision, with their very life in the balance they worshiped the Lord that they knew was true, and whom had done as much and so much more for them. Have they died in vain? Watching the nightly news or picking up a newspaper today it would seem that they have. Today, in a futile effort to appease the enemies of God, Christ, and the religion and people that bear His name¯Christianity, the end-time Christian pretends that all will be well if they just dumb down and close their eyes, keeping silent; as the forces of satan methodically dismantle God's created order, His Scripture, and His Salvation Jesus Christ. The Emperor really isn't naked, we say, there is not an elephant in the room, as it steps upon us. Christian's failure to take stands, fight for what's right, contend for the faith, speak out against wrongs and errors, and our wishy-washy attitude towards the destruction of all that we hold dear, is to be our eventual overthrow: Hos 4:6 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. KJV This cannot be stopped, the Tribulation shall befall us, for it is Holy Spirit inspired prophesy, written in the past-tense in the Bible. "...and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast...." (Rev 13:3-4). This is what the International Judaic conspirators have been working for centuries, even millennia, to bring forth; they were born for it: "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (Jude 4). But you are not fated on an individual level, you do have choices, options. Many wise Christians shall escape the slaughter of the Tribulation. They shall have something in common, they will understand what is going on around them. Didn't know that Christians were going to die during the Great Tribulation? See Scriptural Evidences That Christians Shall Die In The Great Tribulation. Thought that you were going to be Raptured out? See The Rapture Theory; What Does God's Word Say About It?. Now get sober minded, and quit listening to your destroyers when they proclaim good for you "saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace" (Jer 6:14). Jer 6:13-19 13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely. 14 They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. 15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD. 16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. 17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken. 18 Therefore hear, ye nations, and know, O congregation, what is among them. 19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. KJV Bad things are coming, but they will present a utopia to you before the bottom drops out; be ready for that. Here, allow us to illustrate the Tribulation in four steps, like this: 1 First it gets real bad......First part of Trib(One World Order) 2 Then it gets healed,utopia...... Second part of Trib(antichrist) 3 Then all hell breaks loose...... 4 Then comes the end..................Second Advent Many people will err by thinking that step 2 above, is really step 4, and become lost when step 3 happens upon them. Step 4 will not be a glorious time of rewards for these. The Rapturist (Pentecostals, Charismatics, Baptists, etc.) will have his faith shaken when he finds himself in step 1, having thought that he was to have been Raptured before these troubles; and he will be vulnerable to being deceived when step 2 comes in, for by now all his doctrine is contradicted; he will be totally bewildered when step 3 comes about. Who knows what his state shall be at step 4. This is the great danger of the Rapture teaching. The "play-Christians" (Catholics, Episcopalians, Protestant offshoots, etc. et al), never having learned sound doctrine in their respective church systems, will change sides at step 1 to join the beast (New World Order); even now this trend is beginning in most so-called Christian denominations under the guise of "tolerance" and a lukewarm and watering-down brand of new age "Christian love & compassion." They left their first love (Christ Jesus) long ago. Then at step 2 these will join antichrist, securing their continued temporary safety and comfort. In step 4 they shall hear the fateful words out of the Lord of lords and King of king's mouth "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:23). For: Jer 5:30-31 30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; 31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof? KJV Atheists, Agnostics, all uncommitteds, and all members of the other religions (which are ALL false religions) shall follow the same pattern as the play-Christians in the group above; or they shall be executed under the first beast (human rule); whoever of these that shall somehow survive the first 42 months, until antichrist arrives in the second part of the Tribulation (godly rule under a false god satan/antichrist), will bow to his (satan as false god) other-worldly powers. Like the unfaithful dog who will hunt with anyone which takes him, they shall follow, first the New World Order (the first beast), then they shall fawn at the feet of it's master (antichrist/satan). Their fate has long ago been sealed, only to be overturned by a sincere Christian conversion not likely during the Tribulation, where everything is geared towards steering converts into antichrist's new age religion of the beast. Then, for all of the unsaved world, shall be fulfilled the ominous Scripture: 2 Thess 2:1-4 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition [satan as the antichrist]; 4 Who [satan/antichrist] opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. KJV The human race universal is the victim in this crime, God is the Complainant, satan is the offender, and the International Judaic Cadre are the conspirators. Thank God, for the Christian's sake, that they can appeal directly to Him for help and protection in the name of their Savior Jesus Christ. All other religions are in a heap of trouble, satan has the mastery over them, for their gods are vain. These will easily convert to antichrist's new religion, for their own religion was false all along; what great thing is it to switch from one lie to another? So they will enjoy a time of relative peace during the Tribulation as long as they worship antichrist (satan). But Christians, they cannot worship satan, thus they shall not fare so well when worship is ordered under pain of death (unless God protects them Divinely¯which He does appear to do for two groups on two separate occasions in Revelation chapter twelve), for the Tribulation is designed specifically for them, their religion is real and it is the power of God in Christ Jesus. Satan doesn't like that. Written by Nick Goggin
 

verzanumi24

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I DO BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH MENTIONED IN l OR ll THESSALONIANS 4:13-18. JESUS CHRIST SAID THAT WE WHICH ARE ALIVE SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TO JOIN HIM IN THE CLOUDS. I KNOW HE IS COMING SOON.SPECIAL1DONNA
I hope you realize that it means that people will be eye witness of this, and will see glorified Christians rising up from the ground...in other words they will not secretly be taken away as I have heard some people say.
 
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and will see glorified Christians rising up from the ground...in other words they will not secretly be taken away as I have heard some people say.
Thats another rapture myth,nobody rises from the ground. When your body dies it returns to dirt. When you die, to go to be with God. Thats why when he returns , you return with him and are changed on that day from mortal to immortal spiritually not (bodily) physically.
 

verzanumi24

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(ÐøÞÞlégäñgèr;15490)
Thats another rapture myth,nobody rises from the ground. When your body dies it returns to dirt. When you die, to go to be with God. Thats why when he returns , you return with him and are changed on that day from mortal to immortal spiritually not (bodily) physically.
Ok, what I know from the scripture is that the dead in Christ will rise first....1Thessalonians 4:16 (KJV) 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thessalonians 4:17 (KJV) 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. To caught up together with them (those who were dead in Christ) means to rise up from the ground.and those who are alive will be changed...1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV) 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. The scriptures do not say we will be spirit, but that we will change. We will not have a spirit body, because that would not make sense, because spirit by definition is not a body. Spirits do not have a body, but we will have a body. We will have a physical immortal spiritual body. There is no where in the Bible that says we will have a spirit body....that makes as much sense as saying a solid liquid.I don't see in any of these verses saying anything about the saints returning with Jesus. What goes to God when we die is the human spirit in us. Job 32:8 (KJV) 8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. Ecclesiastes 3:21 (KJV) 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. The spirit that returns to God is not the man, but it imparts self awareness and intellect. The person dies and returns to the ground; mankind is dust and when he/she dies returns to the ground.Genesis 3:19 (KJV) 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. A human being is both spirit and body; our mind is spirit, but our body is physical. We will still be physical when we change, but this time we will have a glorified immortal body, completely and totally filled with God. We will no longer be subjected to the physical laws of nature. We will no longer be limited to being in one place at a time. We will be able to go any where we want, do anything we want, with out the need of man made devices, such as a car, plane, ship or space ship. We will have no limitations, because will at Jesus' return, be liberated from our physical bondage.Romans 8:21 (KJV) 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. libertyGreek Word: ἐλευθερίαTransliteration: eleutheriaPhonetic Pronunciation: el-yoo-ther-ee'-ah from (eleutheros); freedom (legitimate or licentious, chiefly moral or cerimonial) :- liberty. —Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary
 
Jul 17, 2007
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Ok, what I know from the scripture is that the dead in Christ will rise first....
And What do the dead do? But sleep, God doesn't care about your crappy body. It's ridiculious to believe that God would raise up, say Paul's or Peter's old Body. The Parable of the Rich Man proves this, as Eliazar is seen by the rich man on the other side of the gulf by him. The spirit is the intelligent of the soul. The things that make you who you are. Your Body is just a vessel to hold stuff. What has to decay will always perish.
To caught up together with them (those who were dead in Christ) means to rise up from the ground.
No, It doesn't. I see you even quote Bullinger! Why would you believe that?
The scriptures do not say we will be spirit, but that we will change. We will not have a spirit body, because that would not make sense, because spirit by definition is not a body. Spirits do not have a body, but we will have a body. We will have a physical immortal spiritual body. There is no where in the Bible that says we will have a spirit body....that makes as much sense as saying a solid liquid.
Theres a verse in the Bible that says every knee shall bow and every tongue confess! This means both Good, Bad and Indifferent. Everyone not just Christians. The scriptures do not say were asleep in our old dead bodies either. Well I can guarentee Adam and eve had them, before they fell and were cast out, This is what we will return to, no6t this false belief of yours. No, physical immortal spirit body any more than adam or eve had. A solid liquid has properties of ICE, very possible. I think you missed the point!
I don't see in any of these verses saying anything about the saints returning with Jesus. What goes to God when we die is the human spirit in us.
Well, who returns with Him? "Gabriel" literally means "Man of God." Our spirit is looking to return to a bunch of remorphed up dirt. The life resides in the blood!