This Lie Went Down Smoothly

Wynona · Nov 23, 2021

Here is a link to this brief article called, "Three Free Sins"

Here is it's conclusion.

"So not only does the Christian get three free sins…Christians get unlimited free sins! (Free to us because they are all forgiven…but not free to God.) And I don’t know a better way to get people thinking about God’s unbelievable love and grace than by granting them what he has already granted. The gift one receives along with “free sins” is the gift of an unbelievable, amazing and surprising faithfulness.

It’s how I became a spiritual giant! You can too."

I counted on a popular theologian to do my thinking for me. I mean, he has a doctorate and is a seminary professor. He has fancy systematic theology: reformed Calvinism. People listen to this guy.

But he is so so wrong. We don't get unlimited free sins. This is a perfect example of the movement towards worshipping Grace instead of God.

Grace is not "unlimited free sins."

I mean, has the esteemed author not read Romans 6:15-16?

But it's no wonder I didn't produce any spiritual fruit for that season. I was being taught that grace was an all encompassing unconditional means of saving me as if I had no agency in the process. I was being taught unlimited free sins, and not that sin was slavery and that every sin must go.

I thought a little sin here and there was inevitable and so the best I could do was manage it.

Not put it off or put it to death. Just manage.

But I didn't just sin a little. I sinned greatly.

Until I read the Scriptures for myself.

I was so shocked at how Scripture talks of obedience being the evidence of true salvation. I began to truly fear for my salvation because I didn't see Galatians 5 fruit in my life.

But then I got a promise from God in the form of Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 18:21
KJV

21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

I was wicked but I didn't have to die for it. I could start obeying God that day and be saved.

You can definitely have assurance that you are saved. It's called, " When I look at the Scriptures, does my life line up??"

If the answer is yes, then you have real assurance.

I accepted the lie because it sounded good. It went down smoothly because it tickled my ears.

But God knows when I began to read the Scripture, my whole theology fell apart and I had to really examine myself for the first time.

amadeus · Nov 23, 2021

@Wynona Yes, the following highlighted phrase is still true:

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6:23

Someone is always willing to come through with the different definitions of what sin is or is not as if that would clear the pathway to God for them no matter how badly or how often they stumble or fall down in their walk toward God.

Where is the power of God in a man? What is impossible for the Holy Spirit in a man? For this reason, the Apostle Paul warns us not to quench the Spirit. Rather let us always yield to the Spirit.

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

MatthewG · Nov 23, 2021

Some scripture to take into consideration is Romans 6:1-13.

Listen closely. The flesh itself will sin, some how some way. It doesn’t matter. However considering we are to walk in newness of life. The sin nature of our flesh - or you could say the flesh does dark things. Should start to diminish however because of this flesh it doesn’t completely dissipate away.

To make this clearer for you, in Mark Chapter 7, I believe you can find a list of what Jesus says resides within a persons heart. Which are evil thoughts from ones heart: that can be fornications, theft, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting, and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness.

There are scripture in Romans 13 that can be found that talk about casting off the darkness and putting on Christ, there are scripture that talks about being humble, gentle, kind, mercy, forgiveness, meekness, in the scripture as well.

There are two types of Christians; to be fair.

Babes in Christ. They make messes and they are allowed to… they are young…

Mature Son or Daughter of God.

Be encouraged to seek these things out in your Bible and be of good cheer, praise God that the old former man or woman has been crucified with Christ, buried and raised again with new life just as he was risen from the dead.

You to have a new inner creation that is spiritual; that you build up in this life as you walk putting God first, loving him and seeking heavenly things. It’s a difficult and hard road but God is with you. The Holy Spirit is given and placed into your heart, and you also have the Spirit of Christ with-in you too. And it goes for all people who are Christians who have faith in the death, burial, and resurrection.

Remember though their are two types of Christians.

Babes - Young new born Christians they make messes and they are allowed to…

Mature - Older mature meat eating Christians who love their brothers and sisters and just desire to help with guiding them along to the truth.

God bless you and all and enjoy your thanksgivings if you have that and let’s be thankful to God every day for life.

Take care all of you,
Matthew G.

Enoch111 · Nov 23, 2021

Wynona said:
"So not only does the Christian get three free sins…Christians get unlimited free sins!

This is plain stupidity. So how come you did not simply ignore this nonsense?

Wynona · Nov 23, 2021

Enoch111 said:
This is plain stupidity. So how come you did not simply ignore this nonsense?

Because I wasn't in the Scriptures for myself.

amadeus · Nov 23, 2021

Wynona said:
Because I wasn't in the Scriptures for myself.

Lots of us have been there. I certainly was. Lots of others are, I believe, still there. They may even regularly and faithfully fill the pews of church buildings without ever having read or studied their Bibles.

Lambano · Nov 23, 2021

I see this same argument going on and on in multiple threads. The “you can't sin all you want” argument is just a straw man. I’ve read Dr. Brown's Three Free Sins. Despite the provocative title, it’s biblically sound. Get the book. I highly recommend it.

[Edit] It may be part of God's process that to really understand this teaching deep down in the heart, a new Christian has to put in the sustained moral effort, fail epically, and break things so badly they can't be fixed. This would be a personal reflection of the narrative of God's people as seen in Paul's writings.

Winona, I’ve followed Key Life ministries for thirty years, participated on their forums for twelve, and supported them financially. The ministry is biblically sound (though I would disagree with their Calvinist orientation). It’s about the Christian freedom we really have when we trust Christ’s work on the cross on our behalf, when we really trust God’s love and forgiveness of our sins.

Really, really trusting God to love and forgive you changes you. In the long run, you might sin less and love Jesus and love other people more. You might develop a sense of humor. Who knows, you might even get better.

But the point is (to quote the author), even if you never get better, God will still love you. And I testify that He does. And I'll tell it and think it and speak it and breathe it.

Wynona · Nov 24, 2021

Lambano said:
I see this same argument going on and on in multiple threads. The “you can't sin all you want” argument is just a straw man. I’ve read Dr. Brown's Three Free Sins. Despite the provocative title, it’s biblically sound. Get the book. I highly recommend it.

[Edit] It may be part of God's process that to really understand this teaching deep down in the heart, a new Christian has to put in the sustained moral effort, fail epically, and break things so badly they can't be fixed. This would be a personal reflection of the narrative of God's people as seen in Paul's writings.

Winona, I’ve followed Key Life ministries for thirty years, participated on their forums for twelve, and supported them financially. The ministry is biblically sound (though I would disagree with their Calvinist orientation). It’s about the Christian freedom we really have when we trust Christ’s work on the cross on our behalf, when we really trust God’s love and forgiveness of our sins.

Really, really trusting God to love and forgive you changes you. In the long run, you might sin less and love Jesus and love other people more. You might develop a sense of humor. Who knows, you might even get better. But the point is (to quote the author), even if you never get better, God will still love you. And I testify that He does. And I'll tell it and think it and speak it and breathe it.

One of my problems with Dr. Brown's ministry is that those who follow it end up quoting him more than Scripture.

Also, how do you know I don't have a sense of humor or believe in God's love and forgiveness?

Christian freedom is not the freedom to sin. Scripture states that sin is bondage.

The teaching of "unlimited free sins" did not lead me to freedom but bondage. Scripture lead me to freedom.

My sin created shame and distance from God. Now, ironically, I have more confidence and assurance before God because I've seen myself grow actual spiritual fruit since learning to obey and push sin out of my life.

The blessing is in obedience. There is no such thing as Christian freedom to sin because sin is bondage.

The Word of God is way better at causing real assurance of salvation than "unlimited free sins" will ever be.

My life was in chaos and since reading Scripture for myself, there is order and peace and blessing.

For me, the proof is in the results.

Dr. Brown knows how to make you feel good. He sounds really, really good. But he is not the Word of God.

farouk · Nov 24, 2021

Wynona said:
One of my problems with Dr. Brown's ministry is that those who follow it end up quoting him more than Scripture.

Also, how do you know I don't have a sense of humor or believe in God's love and forgiveness?

Christian freedom is not the freedom to sin. Scripture states that sin is bondage.

The teaching of "unlimited free sins" did not lead me to freedom but bondage. Scripture lead me to freedom.

My sin created shame and distance from God. Now, ironically, I have more confidence and assurance before God because I've seen myself grow actual spiritual fruit since learning to obey and push sin out of my life.

The blessing is in obedience. There is no such thing as Christian freedom to sin because sin is bondage.

The Word of God is way better at causing real assurance of salvation than "unlimited free sins" will ever be.

My life was in chaos and since reading Scripture for myself, there is order and peace and blessing.

For me, the proof is in the results.

Dr. Brown knows how to make you feel good. He sounds really, really good. But he is not the Word of God.

@Wynona In any case, I don't think I had heard of this Dr. Brown...

Wynona · Nov 24, 2021

farouk said:
@Wynona In any case, I don't think I had heard of this Dr. Brown...

Interestingly enough, I heard one of his sound clips on the Christian radio station I listen to just yesterday.

He has a deep booming, resonating voice. But I don't consider his ministry biblically sound.

I used to gobble up his words. They eased my guilty conscious. But I listened to him instead of God's Word and my walk with God ultimately suffered for it.

farouk · Nov 24, 2021

Wynona said:
Interestingly enough, I heard one of his sound clips on the Christian radio station I listen to just yesterday.

He has a deep booming, resonating voice. But I don't consider his ministry biblically sound.

I used to gobble up his words. They eased my guilty conscious. But I listened to him instead of God's Word and my walk with God ultimately suffered for it.

@Wynona A bit like what Justine says on the video in the other thread, right? about not letting commentary, etc., replace the personal reading of Scripture itself...

Wynona · Nov 24, 2021

farouk said:
@Wynona A bit like what Justine says on the video in the other thread, right? about not letting commentary, etc., replace the personal reading of Scripture itself...

Yes.

It's almost as if, because I used to not be in the Scriptures and failed so miserably, God has given me this huge burden for Christians to read Scripture for themselves.

farouk · Nov 24, 2021

Wynona said:
Yes.

It's almost as if, because I used to not be in the Scriptures and failed so miserably, God has given me this huge burden for Christians to read Scripture for themselves.

@Wynona

John-17-17-KJV-Sanctify-them-through-thy-truth-thy-word-is-I43017017-L02.jpg

scripture - images dot com

kjvbibledaily dot com

Taken · Nov 24, 2021

I believe SIN is Disbelief IN the:
Lord God Almighty.

I believe an Individual who Disbelieves IN the: Lord God Almighty;
IS: Against the Lord God Almighty.
IS: Without the Lord God Almighty.

I believe SIN is Only Forgiven;
BY: the Lord God Almighty.

• (A) I believe Tribesmen (today all called Jews), WHO continue their Belief IN Almighty God, until their Bodily Death “Shall Be Saved.”

• (B) I believe Gentile’s WHO believe IN Almighty God AND Jesus and continue their Belief until their Bodily Death “Shall Be Saved”.

I believe “either” (A or B) can still commit “sins”...(Jews still under the Law)...or Gentile’s (considering, falling for cunning false preaching/teaching). And be Forgiven their sins...still maintaining Belief.

I believe those ^ ^ Who Remain in Belief ...Will be Raised Up, in Glory After Christ’s millennial reign.

• I believe ANY man, Jew or Gentile, WHO has become “Converted IN Christ”, IS Forgiven All Sin, IS Saved, IS Freed From Sin, IS Freed From the Consequences of Sin, IS Kept Freed From Sin (by Gods Indwelt Power),
And can Sin, “No more”. And Shall be Risen Up and occupy Christ Millennial Kingdom.

Glory to God,
Taken

Lambano · Nov 25, 2021

Wynona said:
Christian freedom is not the freedom to sin. Scripture states that sin is bondage.

The teaching of "unlimited free sins" did not lead me to freedom but bondage. Scripture lead me to freedom.

My sin created shame and distance from God. Now, ironically, I have more confidence and assurance before God because I've seen myself grow actual spiritual fruit since learning to obey and push sin out of my life.

The blessing is in obedience. There is no such thing as Christian freedom to sin because sin is bondage.

The Word of God is way better at causing real assurance of salvation than "unlimited free sins" will ever be.

My life was in chaos and since reading Scripture for myself, there is order and peace and blessing.

For me, the proof is in the results.

Dr. Brown knows how to make you feel good. He sounds really, really good. But he is not the Word of God.

Funny how our life experiences cause us to come to completely opposite conclusions. I found obedience derived from trust in God’s love and forgiveness, not the other way around. Different personalities respond affirmatively to different teachings, or should I say, teachings which emphasize different parts of the Bible. Such is life, I guess. But I have to respect your life experiences, @Wynona, because you’ve already earned my personal respect.

Lambano · Nov 25, 2021

@Wynona, I also think your distrust of personality cults is absolutely legitimate, especially in the religious realm. And if I wanted to open that sack of snakes, I would apply that distrust to certain other realms too.

JohnPaul · Nov 25, 2021

Enoch111 said:
This is plain stupidity. So how come you did not simply ignore this nonsense?

One does not know unless he or she reads for themselves, Sister Wynona did not know until she read the scriptures for herself, I'm taking.

It's easy for someone to be preached to or read something and believe it, until they seek out the truth for themselves and pick up the Bible and start reading it.

JohnPaul · Nov 25, 2021

amadeus said:
Lots of us have been there. I certainly was. Lots of others are, I believe, still there. They may even regularly and faithfully fill the pews of church buildings without ever having read or studied their Bibles.

Agreed Amadeus, that's how I was when I attended the Roman Catholic Church, yes I learned about God Almighty and Jesus Christ, but wasn't taught the Bible in Church or Catechism, I learned when I picked up the Good book by myself given to me by a Jehovah Witness brother I worked with back in 1989-1990, it's hard for me to remember the year, he gave me a King James Bible, as he just wanted me to start reading and not convert me, and when I started reading on my own, I learned things never taught in Church or Catechism.

I give credit to the RCC, as they were the ones who taught me about God the father and his only begotten son our Savior Jesus Christ. And I also give credit to my Jehovah's Witness brother who gave me that push to read the Bible on my own. I would like to know where this brother is today and thank him, but the company I worked for closed back in 1996 and I never kept in touch with him.

Enoch111 · Nov 25, 2021

JohnPaul said:
One does not know unless he or she reads for themselves

Since Christ died for our sins, how could anyone turn around and talk about "free sins" for Christians? It is patently absurd.

JohnPaul · Nov 25, 2021

Enoch111 said:
Since Christ died for our sins, how could anyone turn around and talk about "free sins" for Christians? It is patently absurd.

I agree Enoch it is totally absurd to even be taught such a thing, but it's easy to be misled unless one happens to pick up the Bible on their own and read.

Jim Jones is a great example and how he led so many to commit mass suicide and made his followers to believe he was God, and fornicated with both men and women, and so many loved him and believed him, he started off on the right foot but became corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

This Lie Went Down Smoothly

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