Living in Sin or just roommates who love each other?

Ferris Bueller said:

I see no one has 'heard' a word I've said here.
It's good for me to know this.
I needed to know if this was the case or not.

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I have read everything you posted....always do.
I have explained this in detail.
Whether it is the scenario you set up or if they are married by union, biblically no sin, no appearance of sin or wrong or irresponsibility or inconsideration.
The only real problem is people that have been lied to all these years, by people that lie in an attempt to control others because of their own personal beliefs that are merely personnel opinions or beliefs based on lies or misinformation, with no regard to truths in the Bible.
Beliefs, Truths, Facts.....Personnel beliefs can override scriptural facts, or even common sense, some based on incorrect assumptions that are not occurring in the time period or the Bible. Christian beliefs should be based on Truths and facts, what is the alternative? Have you not learnt anything from the mistakes of the Catholic Church who had a great desire to control others due to their own beliefs or initiatives. Generating doctrines of lies that had no biblical support.
That is the funny about fundamentalism....to have a religion based on the Bible....first you have to understand the Bible. Why do you think there are 30,000 plus denominations....people formulating beliefs that did not understand the Bible or the time period.
Truth is always best and truth now a days is something you have to work for, because it is buried under the dirt of lies and misconceptions and assumptions.
I am a firm believer of "hair triggers" but when it comes to condemning people or rejecting people from the faith, I believe in the duel trigger system. I consider carefully who and what I condemn because that is what Christ and the Apostles taught. Condemning people from a made up religion can lead to all sorts of sins.

Ferris Bueller said:

In our culture of celebrated drunkenness.....neither.
That's just stupid to bring that into the church.
Keep that in your own home, and any where out of your home where people don't know you're a Christian.

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It is the same old thing....beliefs based on misinformation. Christ drank, and drank with the sinners. Some of His parables included the Vineyards, the Resurrection came to be symbolized by the apparent death of the vines and the rebirth. The early house churches were conducted around a meal that included the Bread and Wine ritual. Paul talked about this. Drinking wine and making merry and singing hymns....it is good to know something about history. Why did you think Christ's mother was so concerned that they ran out of wine, and why Christ agreed to change the water into fine wine? Do you think He sinned or made others sin? In his travels, why do you think Paul recommended to Timothy to drink a little wine. It was a drinking culture, it did not matter if it was Jewish, Christian, or Romans or Christ or Roman soldiers...they drank. Why do think that in that era there was no such thing as a grape press...all winepresses.... bare feet made for good wine.

That is why I am so against man-made sins because they give people more ammo to condemn people of sins, where there was no sin to begin with. A minefield of real sins and fake sins where people can step on a real sin while trying to avoid fake sins. Sins caused by man-made sins. Man-made sins that were manufactured not from the Bible, put personal desires to control or provide self edification.

Look at me, I don't do this or don't do that. A religion of don't doers, where your "rightness" is based on what you don't do rather than a focus on Good Deeds.

Look at me! I am better than Christ because I do not drink! Blasphemy!

TEXBOW said:

Many apply today's abuses of wine as reason enough for it to be sinful. Because Satan corrupts something it then becomes a sin for mankind. I see no issue with wine. I do see that drunkenness is a sin. Some would have you think that drinking a glass of wine is sending you straight to hell.

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Biblical drunkenness based on a drinking culture's definition of drunk. And drunkenness Transends alcohol into drugs. Stoners!

TEXBOW said:

Paul did give instructions concerning leadership in the Church 1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money,

Notice Paul does not say no wine.

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There is no if ands or buts....it was a drinking culture. The Jews and Greco-Romans drank wine for a few reasons. Health being one. Centuries of wine drinking had proven somethings. Historically we know that regions that drank wine tended to be more healthy. What could be in an antient well? Bird dropping, insects, swimming reptiles, dead reptiles....each well had it own unique flora and traveling from wells to wells and drinking from them could give you some stomach issues. Which was probably why Paul told Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach.

Viticulture and the grape harvests were big. If ya like grape juice, the time to drink it, was right out of the winepress. Grape juice did not keep....no refrigeration....grape juice actually rots....that is why if you seal it, it ferments....the grape skins themselves and the feet provide what was needed for natural fermentation. Lower alcohol content for a couple of reasons. Most of the time they drank wine like Kool-Aid...mixing it with water.

When Christianity started to build churches....Constantine era....vineyards were usually built on the property.

Grailhunter said:

The only real problem is people that have been lied to all these years, by people that lie in an attempt to control others because of their own personal beliefs that are merely personnel opinions or beliefs based on lies or misinformation, with no regard to truths in the Bible.

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The OP said they were not having sex. And that they don't want to get married. But you keep harping on this matter of what constitutes marriage, lol. I keep pointing out that they sin in regard to Romans 14. But everybody rejects Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8. I have never known a Christian to accept Paul's teachings in those chapters when it comes up for discussion.

But, for your sake we'll assume they are having sex and have decided that sex, in and of itself, constitutes marriage.
I don't harp on it, but this is what I point out to people who want to act in a quasi-Christian kind of way and so they play the game that the sex they are having outside of marriage equals marriage...


Jesus recognizes the difference between this woman 'having a man' and 'being married to a man'. You can see that Jesus is saying having a man does not automatically constitute being married to that man. The lies and misinformation you speak of in your post stem from the ignorance of scripture, not personal opinions and beliefs. But like I say, I don't harp on it because it's usually people who want to have some consideration of Christian morals, but aren't Christians themselves, that play the 'sex is being married' game, and so it doesn't matter anyway what they do or don't do. None of my kids have married their significant others. I consider them married, not in a God-approved kind of way, but in regard to the commitment they have to one another. They aren't Christians so it doesn't matter.

Grailhunter said:

That is the funny about fundamentalism....to have a religion based on the Bible....first you have to understand the Bible. Why do you think there are 30,000 plus denominations.

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Because there's always that one scripture they did not know about, or have chosen to not acknowledge. And that ignorance causes them to go off into their own theology. That's why, lol.

Grailhunter said:

It is the same old thing....beliefs based on misinformation. Christ drank, and drank with the sinners. Some of His parables included the Vineyards, the Resurrection came to be symbolized by the apparent death of the vines and the rebirth. The early house churches were conducted around a meal that included the Bread and Wine ritual. Paul talked about this. Drinking wine and making merry and singing hymns....it is good to know something about history. Why did you think Christ's mother was so concerned that they ran out of wine, and why Christ agreed to change the water into fine wine? Do you think He sinned or made others sin? In his travels, why do you think Paul recommended to Timothy to drink a little wine. It was a drinking culture, it did not matter if it was Jewish, Christian, or Romans or Christ or Roman soldiers...they drank. Why do think that in that era there was no such thing as a grape press...all winepresses.... bare feet made for good wine.

That is why I am so against man-made sins because they give people more ammo to condemn people of sins, where there was no sin to begin with. A minefield of real sins and fake sins where people can step on a real sin while trying to avoid fake sins. Sins caused by man-made sins. Man-made sins that were manufactured not from the Bible, put personal desires to control or provide self edification.

Look at me, I don't do this or don't do that. A religion of don't doers, where your "rightness" is based on what you don't do rather than a focus on Good Deeds.

Look at me! I am better than Christ because I do not drink! Blasphemy!

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Why did you assume I said drinking is a sin? I said keep it out of the church!
Are you familiar with 1 Corinthians 8 (and 1 Corinthians 10:14-22)?
Paul knows that false idols/gods are nothing, and so eating meat sacrificed to a false god is not in and of itself a sin. Yet he tells the church to not do it. According to you he has created a man made sin and is condemning people of sin that is not sin. That definitely is an example of lies and misinformation, but lies and misinformation caused by a lack of Biblical knowledge, not a suppression of it as you are suggesting happens.

The sin is causing a weaker brother to stumble by what you know you can rightfully do. But like I say, no Christian that I know of thinks they have to not sin that way.

Angelina said:

Brother, there is a marked difference between two people having a sexual relationship which constitutes a marriage and those who obstain from sexual intimacy and the difference is here. Genesis 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Proverbs 18:22 ESV / 61 helpful votes
He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord.

1 Corinthians 7:1-40 ESV
“It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. ...

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives [seek the highest good for her and surround her with a caring, unselfish love], just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,


Hebrews 13: 4 Marriage is to be held in honor among all [that is, regarded as something of great value], and the marriage bed undefiled [by immorality or by any sexual sin]; for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

and it goes on....

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I'm the one that has to keep reminding grail that the two people in the OP aren't having sex, lol. And so that's not where the issue of sinning lies.
So what is it exactly that you think I'm wrong about? If that's what you're trying to get at.

Angelina said:

two people having a sexual relationship which constitutes a marriage

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Maybe it constitutes marriage, maybe it doesn't.
Jesus didn't think having a partner automatically equated to them being your husband or wife.

TEXBOW said:

Is it what is in a person's "mind" that is causing them to stumble or is it what someone is actually doing?

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In the OP, it's what the couple is doing that is creating what's in the other person's mind.
And what the couple is doing is not in the matter of having sex. (They're not doing that. You said that yourself.)
The thing the couple is doing that is wrong is letting what they consider good (and it is, they aren't having sex) to be spoken of as evil (Romans 14:16).

Angelina said:

The key element here is "One Flesh" to two become "one flesh" Where do you think the word marriage come from?????

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Then why is the man that the woman is with not her husband in John 4:16-18?
Most Christians claim that he is her husband by virtue of simply being with her.

Can you see from this too, that, Biblically, sex does not automatically make you married?


And yet so many people insist it's not Biblical that you be married because sex automatically marries you.