Living in Sin or just roommates who love each other?

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Curtis

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Maybe it constitutes marriage, maybe it doesn't.
Jesus didn't think having a partner automatically equated to them being your husband or wife.
In scripture the act of intercourse constitutes a marriage, which is why scripture says sex with a prostitute joins them in marriage.

1Co 6:16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” <—— refers to Genesis 2:24 and Ephesians 5:31:

Genesis 2:24 (ESV)

24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Ephesians 5:31 (ESV)

31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”

Secular law recognizes that by the fact that a marriage isn’t binding or legal until consummated, and lack of consummating results in annulment of the marriage, as if it never occurred.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Do we get married to have sex, or do we have sex to get married?
Joseph did not think you have sex to get married. He married, then they had sex.

I think it's obvious that Christians are being influenced by the world to have sex before marriage, thinking that constitutes marriage, and so it's okay, because of lack of Biblical knowledge.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Secular law recognizes that fact by common law marriage - living together constitutes a marriage - and by the fact that a marriage isn’t binding or legal until consummated, and lack of consummating results in annulment of the marriage, as if it never occurred.
Marriage without sex is not a legal marriage. That's obvious.
The world can think what it wants. But as we can see, Biblically, for the Christian sex without marriage is not a legal marriage.

You can argue all day long how you marry someone after you've had sex with them (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). That's a cultural thing. But it's clear that sex is only allowed for Christians within the confines of getting married, whatever it is that 'getting married' means in one's culture.
 

Angelina

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Then why is the man the woman is with not her husband in John 4:16-18?
Most Christians claim that he is her husband by virtue of simply being with her.

Jesus says that the man she is now with, is not her husband.
and the man you are now living with is not your husband.
If the 5 husbands she had were her husbands, as Jesus has testified....how can they be so, by virtue????
 

Angelina

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Sex consumates marriage. 23And the man said: “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for out of man she was taken.” 24For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.…

Men and women in the OT did not have sex outside of being married...Their union constituted a commitment. A young woman or virgin lived with her parents until a suitable marriage partner was found for her. I will see if I can find more information but if you have read deuteronomy you can clearly see what God's thoughts are on marriage and unfaithfulness in marriage.
 

Curtis

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Then why is the man that the woman is with not her husband in John 4:16-18?
Most Christians claim that he is her husband by virtue of simply being with her.

Can you see from this too, that, Biblically, sex does not automatically make you married?

"28If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29he shall pay her father fifty shekels c of silver. He must marry the young woman" Deuteronomy 22:28-29

And yet so many people insist it's not Biblical that you be married because sex automatically marries you.
Sex makes you married in Gods eyes, but the world wants a piece of paper as proof, legally and otherwise.

Try to inherit an estate by saying you slept with the deceased, for instance.
 

Ferris Bueller

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In scripture the act of intercourse constitutes a marriage
No, as I've pointed out, Mary and Joseph (Matthew 1:18-19), Deuteronomy 22:28-29, and the woman at the well (John 4:16-18) all dispel the belief that simply having sex makes you married to that person.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Sex makes you married in Gods eyes, but the world wants a piece of paper as proof, legally and otherwise.
No, sex does not make you married in God's eyes. It requires you to marry. And the piece of paper is simply our particular culture's way of doing that. In ancient Israel, for example, 'getting married' meant paying the bride's price.
 
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Curtis

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Marriage without sex is not a legal marriage. That's obvious.
The world can think what it wants. But as we can see, Biblically, for the Christian sex without marriage is not a legal marriage.

You can argue all day long how you marry someone after you've had sex with them (Deuteronomy 22:28-29). That's a cultural thing. But it's clear that sex is only allowed for Christians within the confines of getting married, whatever it is that 'getting married' means in one's culture.
As Pat Robertson said, biblically in Gods eyes you don’t need a piece of paper. Adam and Eve had no marriage license - a couple can pledge their love to each other and that’s what marriage is - man made it an institution with licenses and special ceremonies.
 

Ferris Bueller

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As Pat Robertson said, biblically in Gods eyes you don’t need a piece of paper. Adam and Eve had no marriage license - a couple can pledge their love to each other and that’s what marriage is - man made it an institution with licenses and special ceremonies.
This ignores the fact that God required the man who slept with an unpledged woman TO GET MARRIED.
 

Angelina

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Yes it does....

1 Corinthians 6:15-17
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! 16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

Mark 10:7-9
7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
 
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Ferris Bueller

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if you have read deuteronomy you can clearly see what God's thoughts are on marriage
Yes. He says to GET MARRIED if you have sex - Deuteronomy 22:28-29.
But we say, having sex IS getting married.

And I think it's obvious we say that because we want to avoid making a commitment. For deep inside of us we know that if you don't 'get married' it leaves the door open for us to leave the relationship. 'Sex is getting married' is how we justify not making an actual marital commitment to another person.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Yes it does....

1 Corinthians 6:15-17
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! 16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

Mark 10:7-9
7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
And so if you don't marry the prostitute? Then what?
 

Angelina

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Yes. He says to GET MARRIED if you have sex - Deuteronomy 22:28-29.
But we say, having sex IS getting married.

And I think it's obvious we say that because we want to avoid making a commitment. For deep inside of us we know that if you don't 'get married' it leaves the door open for us to leave the relationship. 'Sex is getting married' is how we justify not making an actual marital commitment to another person.

The point of difference was that the woman in the above paragraph was betrothed and this particular virgin was under the protection of her father. That is why the perpetrator had to pay the father for this crime. It was rape where the man ended up having her as his wife forever...
This is not the same as the two becoming one flesh in the eyes of the Lord God. He did not create women to be raped by her partner so that they can be considered married in his eyes...
 

Angelina

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And so if you don't marry the prostitute? Then what?

Men did not visit prostitutes to marry them but to gratify their fleshly desires. However, joining in such a way with a prostitute is the same as the two becoming one flesh. I doubt that God wanted to see his people joining themselves to a prostitute and there were consequences that followed I am sure....the other part of that verse again states....24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Sex is a union made for the marriage bed and not outside of that relam. It is also created for male and female who have commited them selves for a lifetime although that may not always happen.....
 

Ferris Bueller

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The point of difference was that the woman in the above paragraph was betrothed
No, the passage says this is about a woman not pledged to be married.

"...a virgin who is not pledged to be married..." Deuteronomy 22:28
Verses 23 to 25 are about the woman who is pledged to be married.
And notice the crime is not that he had forcible sex with her. The crime lies in whether or not she is pledged to someone else.
Hey, that's just the way it was in that culture. We call it rape. They called it taking a wife. Argue the legality and sensibility of it if you want. I just know it's a useful illustration of how God forcibly takes a wife for himself and his obligation to her. They can understand that in that culture. Us? Not so much.
 

Angelina

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No, the passage says this is about a woman not pledged to be married.
"...a virgin who is not pledged to be married..." Deuteronomy 22:28

That's right. No! the crime is that he violated her father's possession by having sex with his daughter. The daughter is the Father's possession until she is pledged to be married...

Honestly, I don't know what you are trying to get at? what are you trying to justify here? Are you having sex before you are married or something...what???
 

Grailhunter

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The OP said they were not having sex. And that they don't want to get married. But you keep harping on this matter of what constitutes marriage, lol. I keep pointing out that they sin in regard to Romans 14. But everybody rejects Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8. I have never known a Christian to accept Paul's teachings in those chapters when it comes up for discussion.

But, for your sake we'll assume they are having sex and have decided that sex, in and of itself, constitutes marriage.
I don't harp on it, but this is what I point out to people who want to act in a quasi-Christian kind of way and so they play the game that the sex they are having outside of marriage equals marriage...

"16Jesus told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”17“I have no husband,” the woman replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are correct to say that you have no husband. 18In fact, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. You have spoken truthfully.” John 4:16-18

Jesus recognizes the difference between this woman 'having a man' and 'being married to a man'. You can see that Jesus is saying having a man does not automatically constitute being married to that man. The lies and misinformation you speak of in your post stem from the ignorance of scripture, not personal opinions and beliefs. But like I say, I don't harp on it because it's usually people who want to have some consideration of Christian morals, but aren't Christians themselves, that play the 'sex is being married' game, and so it doesn't matter anyway what they do or don't do. None of my kids have married their significant others. I consider them married, not in a God-approved kind of way, but in regard to the commitment they have to one another. They aren't Christians so it doesn't matter.

In Egypt the marriage was finalized by the woman moving her possessions in.....In Judaism the marriage required the couple to live under the same roof LOL the lady was with his other possessions. the Samaritans were very similar in that regard. But it is not possible to track the Samarian culture with true accuracy because they intermarried with Pagans.....Because they did that the scenarios at the well maybe more complicated than understood.

But you keep harping on this matter of what constitutes marriage....No I am saying at any angle or scenario, that the only fault is with those that do not care enough to know their own religion or promote false concerns and social religious confusion and concerns and distractions over matters.....that do not matter.

And where does that fault originally lie? Men trying to manipulate the scriptures to suite their own purposes.
 
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Grailhunter

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Why did you assume I said drinking is a sin? I said keep it out of the church!

No I am not thinking....that you are silly enough to think that drinking is a sin.....
but "Keep it out of the church!" Why? Because of wrong thinking?
Sanctification and separation from the world. How do we do that and how should we do that? What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.” Matthew 15:11 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— Collusions 2:16

What Christians do that is self sanctimonious, reflects on how others perceive our understanding of the Christianity and the Bible. You want to talk about perceptions or how it looks. 2000 years since Christ, there is no excuse for people that do not understand the Bible....But we keep straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel....well the truth will set you free.

Smoking and drinking....having toilets in the church....ewww they stink! No reason to allow a minimal amount of alcohol and smoking at a reception in a church. Allowing gossipers? No.

Raise your glasses and toast Christ and ask for His blessings for the marriage and family.

Give no reason why a couple should go anywhere else but a church for their weddings and wedding celebrations.