When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

Marty fox · Oct 18, 2021

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10

5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Notice that in both sets of verses that Jesus receives His authority and power that shows that they happened at the same time.

Hebrews 10:12-13 confirms the timing of this when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father when He presented Himself to the Father as our one time sacrificial Lamb.

12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.

And when did Jesus say that He would sit at the right hand of the Father?

Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Yes after His death and resurrection

Aunty Jane · Oct 18, 2021

Great question!

Marty fox said:
Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed."

Not sure what translation you are using there but it is not an accurate one. In all the translations I looked up, the word "worship" is not used, but "to serve" was used instead.....these are very different concepts IMO. One can serve the interests of another person without worshipping them.
So IMV, this is a vision of Jesus' coronation...the crowing of him as King, which, when this vision was given, was thousands of years into the future. It was after Jesus had completed his assignment on earth and returned to heaven....but did he have to wait for this to happen?

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10

In accord with David's prophesy in Psalm 110:1,2...which says....
"A declaration of Yahweh to my lord,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies your footstool.”
2 Yahweh will send out your mighty scepter from Zion;
rule in the midst of your enemies." (Lexham)

It is important to understand who David is talking about.....translations that take the divine name out, leave many people confused.
But this is Yahweh's declaration to David's "Lord"...the coming Messiah. He was told to "sit at God's right hand UNTIL God made his enemies his footstool". That is, until all the enemies of God and his people had been subjected to the new King. But then God said that he was to "rule in the midst of his enemies"......so rather than destroying those enemies, Jesus was to take up his Kingship whilst they were still in existence....still 'doing the will of their father the devil'.

5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Notice that in both sets of verses that Jesus receives His authority and power that shows that they happened at the same time.

Actually one was a prophesy about the other.

Hebrews 10:12-13 confirms the timing of this when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father when He presented Himself to the Father as our one time sacrificial Lamb.

Daniel and Revelation are separated by over 600 years. And Daniel's prophesies were used to calculate when Messiah was due to make his appearance.....the Jews were expecting him in 29CE. And he was to be "cut off" after three and a half weeks" or three and a half years, which is exactly what happened. He presented himself for baptism at the age of 30 and was put to death three and a half years later. So can we calculate from Daniel's prophesies the time of Messiah's return? I believe we can. But the time of his return does not tell us when the "end" will come. When Jesus returned, he said would be identified by a series of world events, (Matthew 24:3-14) not something like a visible manifestation....yet.

If you are familiar with the prophesies in Daniel ch 4, you will see that beast like governments were going to rule the world....In modern times, the bear is commonly used to represent Russia; the eagle, the United States; the lion, Britain; the dragon, China. The Bible also uses wild beasts as symbols of world governments and of the entire global system of human rulership under the influence of Satan (1 John 5:19).....and that they would continue to rule until the Messiah was to become King. When did that happen?

I believe that another prophesy gives us the answer....This is in Daniel ch 2 where Nebuchadnezzar was given another dream, this time it was of a huge image made of metals in descending order....it represented a series of consecutive world powers down through time.....the head of gold was Babylon, then the arms and breast were of silver representing Medo-Persia, then the copper represented Greece, the iron was Rome and the feet of the image was Britain, which in "the time of the end", became the dual world power of Anglo-America. The image was struck on its feet, indicating that the time for God to judge the nations is during the rulership of these last kings.....the time we are living in now.

Daniel 2:44 says...
"And in the day of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, and the kingdom will not be left for another nation, and it will bring an end to all these kingdoms, but it will stand forever."

This is the time for God to introduce the rulership of his Kingdom, by bringing an end to all failed human governments under influence from satan and his demons, but not before Messiah was to "rule in the midst of his enemies". This is the time for 'separating the sheep from the goats'.

And as you can see in Revelation 12:7-12, Jesus assumes power and begins ruling by evicting satan from heaven down to the earth where he is now wreaking havoc, knowing that his time is running out.....But before Jesus brings this world system to an end, he seizes the dragon and casts him and his demons into a prison for 1000 years. (Revelation 20:1-3)
God's Kingdom in the hands of his appointed Son and King will then begin to re-establish God's rulership over this earth, as he intended from the beginning. The dead will be brought back to life and paradise conditions will be restored for human kind to enjoy. (Revelation 21:2-4)

Matthew 26:63-64
The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Yes after His death and resurrection

After his death and resurrection, yes....but not before God had fulfilled his promise to make all of his enemies a stool for his feet.

I believe all the features of the "sign" that Jesus gave to indicate his "presence" (parousia) have seen fulfillment from the outbreak of the "First World War"....an event unprecedented in the history of mankind and fitting the description Jesus gave in Matthew 24:3-14.

Because I believe that Jesus' "presence" and his "coming on the clouds" are two separate events, it gives enough time for all the features of the sign to be fulfilled as well as the global preaching work that he foretold in Matthew 24:14. Since the whole world has now been given a witness, they have no excuse, just like the people of Noah's day. (Matthew 24:37-39) History is repeating, but so many do not seem to notice....

Jay Ross · Oct 18, 2021

Hello,

After the four winds of heaven, i.e. the four beasts, are judged in heaven, Jesus is given dominion over the peoples of the earth and a kingdom.

When do the beasts of Daniel 7:11-12 get judged? As told to us in Isaiah 24:21-22, the heavenly hosts/beasts, are judged at the same time that the kings of the earth are judged when they are gathered at Armageddon. Together the judged kings of the earth and the judged heavenly hosts are both judged at the same time at the end of this present age and they are imprisoned for many days to await the time of their punishment.

This is in line with the Daniel 2 Statue prophecy where God's everlasting Kingdom, which is given to Christ as His Dominion, is established at the time of these kings of the fifth segment are active on the face of the earth and being judged.

This is some 2,000 + years after Christ's death and resurrection, in our near future.

I hope this brief posts helps to clarify when.

Shalom

Marty fox · Oct 19, 2021

Thanks for your reply's all

The purpose of this post was more of proving that it happened at the cross & resurrection showing that the posted scriptures confirm it

Jay Ross · Oct 19, 2021

Marty fox said:
Thanks for your reply's all

The purpose of this post was more of proving that it happened at the cross & resurrection showing that the posted scriptures confirm it

But as the scriptures shows, the judgement of the four winds of heaven, i.e. the actual beasts, are judged in our near future and they were not judged immediately after the cross and resurrection.

However, you are welcome to think otherwise to suit your own private understanding.

Shalom

Davy · Oct 27, 2021

Marty fox said:
Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10

5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Notice that in both sets of verses that Jesus receives His authority and power that shows that they happened at the same time.

Hebrews 10:12-13 confirms the timing of this when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father when He presented Himself to the Father as our one time sacrificial Lamb.

12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.

And when did Jesus say that He would sit at the right hand of the Father?

Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Yes after His death and resurrection

That's confusion. Lord Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world, meaning this present world, otherwise His servants would fight to prevent His being delivered up to be crucified.

John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence.
KJV

As of right now, by His Blood shed upon His cross, His SPIRITUAL kingdom is here on earth, through His Church. But His coming LITERAL Kingdom is still future, and won't happen until His return to sit upon the throne of His inheritance, David's throne (Matthew 19:28; Luke 1:32). As of right now, Lord Jesus is sitting on the right hand of The Father in Heaven, still expecting until it's time for Jesus to take reign over all nations on earth upon His earthly throne. David's throne is NOT in Heaven.

So those who bypass all the Scripture evidence for Christ's coming Kingdom here on earth in the future do so in support of men's doctrines. Why would some want to do that? It's because some of those do not want Lord Jesus to return to this earth to reign over them; they want Jesus to stay in Heaven!

Mark51 · Nov 25, 2021

Marty fox said:
Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10

5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Notice that in both sets of verses that Jesus receives His authority and power that shows that they happened at the same time.

Hebrews 10:12-13 confirms the timing of this when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father when He presented Himself to the Father as our one time sacrificial Lamb.

12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.

And when did Jesus say that He would sit at the right hand of the Father?

Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Yes after His death and resurrection

The account-starting at-at Revelation 12:6 is referring to the birth of God's kingdom with Jesus at its king. At the time that John penned this book, it was a prophecy for the future-not at the time of his ascension. I believe that this fulfillment has been fulfilled in this modern time period. At Revelation 19:7, 8, Jesus, as a newly appoint king, is symbolically married to his bride-the 144,00 anointed.

Bobby Jo · Nov 25, 2021

Marty fox said:
...The purpose of this post was more of proving that it happened at the cross & resurrection showing that the posted scriptures confirm it

Ummmm, you proved that Dan. 12:4 & 9 are FALSE?

Perhaps you should re-check you calculations. You made a mistake somewhere.

Bobby Jo

.

Marty fox · Nov 25, 2021

Bobby Jo said:
Ummmm, you proved that Dan. 12:4 & 9 are FALSE?

Perhaps you should re-check you calculations. You made a mistake somewhere.

Bobby Jo

.

So when did Jesus say that He had His power and authority?

Matthew 28:1
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

These are the words right out of Jesus mouth He tells us when Daniel 7:13-14 and Revelation 12:10 happened which was right after His death and ressurection

Waiting on him · Nov 25, 2021

Aunty Jane said:
In accord with David's prophesy in Psalm 110:1,2...which says....
"A declaration of Yahweh to my lord,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies your footstool.”
2 Yahweh will send out your mighty scepter from Zion;
rule in the midst of your enemies." (Lexham)

Are you saying that Jesus doesn’t rule in your midsts?

Bobby Jo · Nov 25, 2021

Marty fox said:
So when did Jesus say that He had His power and authority? ...

When did Dan. 12:4 & 9 become Non-Scripture? Either ALL Scripture agrees with itself, or the various theories are FALSE.

Bobby Jo

.

Waiting on him · Nov 25, 2021

Bobby Jo said:
When did Dan. 12:4 & 9 become Non-Scripture? Either ALL Scripture agrees with itself, or the various theories are FALSE.

Bobby Jo

.

Waiting on him · Nov 25, 2021

Matthew 28:18 KJV
[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Marty fox · Nov 25, 2021

Bobby Jo said:
When did Dan. 12:4 & 9 become Non-Scripture? Either ALL Scripture agrees with itself, or the various theories are FALSE.

Bobby Jo

.

Like Jesus I will answer your question with a question

Revelation 22:10
10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

When was the angel Jesus sent to John talking about?

All scripture is scripture including Daniel 12:4 & 9 its the interpretations that get confused. I gave you direct words out of Jesus mouth which can not be disputed why would you deny the timing that Jesus said that He received His power glory and authority over an interpretation that you have about Daniel 12:4 & 9?

A hint of the timing

Matthew 27:51-53
51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

When are we purified when we are saved or when we die?

Bobby Jo · Nov 25, 2021

Marty fox said:
Like Jesus I will answer your question with a question ...

You've asserted that Dan. 7:13-14 is ANCIENT. However Dan. 12: 4 & 9 specifies that these prophecies are MODERN. And where BOTH can't be true, you deceive your audience by not resolving your discrepancy.

And it's ok if you either don't understand what you THINK you understand, or if you're deliberately MISREPRESENTING Scripture. In the first case it's incumbent to get it RIGHT, and in the second case it's your free will to be dishonest.

But either way, you're incorrect, and you're liable:

2 Tim. 3:2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people.

Bobby Jo

.

Marty fox · Nov 25, 2021

Bobby Jo said:
You've asserted that Dan. 7:13-14 is ANCIENT. However Dan. 12: 4 & 9 specifies that these prophecies are MODERN. And where BOTH can't be true, you deceive your audience by not resolving your discrepancy.

And it's ok if you either don't understand what you THINK you understand, or if you're deliberately MISREPRESENTING Scripture. In the first case it's incumbent to get it RIGHT, and in the second case it's your free will to be dishonest.

But either way, you're incorrect, and you're liable:

2 Tim. 3:2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people.

Bobby Jo

.

Okay so before accusing me please this time answer the question I asked

Matthew 28:1
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

When did Jesus say that He had this authority in the future or back at the time He said those words?

If you believe at the time Jesus said those words back in the first century then when did these events below happen?

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Revelation 12:10
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.

These event have to be at the same time and Jesus said when He received His authority so how can you accuse me of being dishonest when I'm using scripture from Jesus mouth? Could it be that you are mistaken as I would never call you dishonest?

Jesus did ascend back up to the Fathers right hand side in Acts chapter 1.

Bobby Jo · Nov 25, 2021

Marty fox said:
Okay so before accusing me please this time answer the question I asked
...

We start at the START, where you asserted that Dan. 7:13-14 was ANCIENT, and proceed from there, -- not half way down the "rabbit trail" you'd deceive us by.

And again, it really doesn't matter to me if you're confused, deceived, or deceptive. But if we're after the TRUTH, then start by addressing your basic premise, -- OR NOT. Your call.

Bobby Jo

.

Marty fox · Nov 25, 2021

Bobby Jo said:
We start at the START, where you asserted that Dan. 7:13-14 was ANCIENT, and proceed from there, -- not half way down the "rabbit trail" you'd deceive us by.

And again, it really doesn't matter to me if you're confused, deceived, or deceptive. But if we're after the TRUTH, then start by addressing your basic premise, -- OR NOT. Your call.

Bobby Jo

.

I did Daniel 7:13-14 shows when Jesus received His authority.

When did Jesus say that He received His authority?

Matthew 28:18
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

After His death and resurrection thus the timing is the one and the same. Its not my words but Jesus words so your dispute is not with me you are disagreeing with Jesus

Aunty Jane · Nov 25, 2021

Waiting on him said:
Are you saying that Jesus doesn’t rule in your midsts?

Is this is a reference to Luke 17:21? If it is, Jesus was not saying that the Kingdom of God was “in the midst” or “within” of the hearts of the people he was speaking to. He was addressing the Pharisees, of whom he said “their hearts are far removed from me”....so he was simply telling them that the designated King of God’s Kingdom, it’s prime representative, was there in their midst and they failed to acknowledge him. Context is as important as words.

Waiting on him · Nov 25, 2021

Aunty Jane said:
Is this is a reference to Luke 17:21? If it is, Jesus was not saying that the Kingdom of God was “in the midst” or “within” of the hearts of the people he was speaking to. He was addressing the Pharisees, of whom he said “their hearts are far removed from me”....so he was simply telling them that the designated King of God’s Kingdom, it’s prime representative, was there in their midst and they failed to acknowledge him. Context is as important as words.

2 Corinthians 6:16 KJV
[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them ; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads