Stumblingblock Truths of the Gospel !

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
3,824
335
83
66
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1 Cor 1:24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Two of the most hated and resisted Truths of the Gospel, a stumblingblock to the natural, carnal mind of man are #1 Election of Grace !


First of all election of grace is eternal in that God chose certain individuals, a remnant from mankind in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This Grace of Election was given them In Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Purpose and Grace both refer to election. The Election of Grace Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Now Two things about this eternal election of Grace that men war against. #1. Its always only for a remnant of men, and not all men without exception, hence Paul calls the elect among the jews a remnant Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now even in the OT concerning the jews, Isaiah writes of them Isa 1:9

9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Thats why Jesus says of the nation of Israel, under National Covenet this Matt 22:14

For many are called, but few are chosen.

See, not all ethnic jews that comprised ethnic Israel under the OC, were chosen of God only a few of them, out of the many of that nation !

So one of the stumblingblock truths of election of Grace, or salvation by grace, it is the fact that its limited to only a remnant, whether a remnant amongst the jews or a remnant amongst the gentiles ! Sorry, but all without exception cannot be of the election of Grace !
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,761
25,324
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1 Cor 1:24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Two of the most hated and resisted Truths of the Gospel, a stumblingblock to the natural, carnal mind of man are #1 Election of Grace !


First of all election of grace is eternal in that God chose certain individuals, a remnant from mankind in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This Grace of Election was given them In Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Purpose and Grace both refer to election. The Election of Grace Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Now Two things about this eternal election of Grace that men war against. #1. Its always only for a remnant of men, and not all men without exception, hence Paul calls the elect among the jews a remnant Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now even in the OT concerning the jews, Isaiah writes of them Isa 1:9

9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Thats why Jesus says of the nation of Israel, under National Covenet this Matt 22:14

For many are called, but few are chosen.

See, not all ethnic jews that comprised ethnic Israel under the OC, were chosen of God only a few of them, out of the many of that nation !

So one of the stumblingblock truths of election of Grace, or salvation by grace, it is the fact that its limited to only a remnant, whether a remnant amongst the jews or a remnant amongst the gentiles ! Sorry, but all without exception cannot be of the election of Grace !

This makes me sad, and unsure. How does one actually KNOW that their saved? Are there people out there who believe they are saved because God loves "everybody" and they "even believed on His Name..."? Or, is it that He does NOT love everybody? (Jacob/Esau) And, if God already chose the "elect", and nothing will stop them from coming to Him because He chose them, why evangelize, why the Great Commission?
It's the bouncing back and forth that can make one insane, "am I REALLY saved?", "Does He REALLY love ME?" "Am I fooling myself and others"? If one does not have the assurance of their salvation, what hope is there??

Yes, this IS a stumbling block to me, for sure. I'm one of those weak foolish women who actually Need assurance or it's waking on eggshells always wondering if He loves me...that's no way to live a "free life".
God Bless
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
3,824
335
83
66
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Stumblingblock Truths of the Gospel !2

The other thing about Election of Grace, or Gods purpose of election that's an stumblingblock to the natural mind of man as Per Rom 9:11

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

That its not based upon the foreseen deeds of men ! This the proud carnal heart of man opposes and strives against , its fuel to his unbelief ! It opposes the natural pride of man !

If you were to examine most objectors of election, you see they almost always say about election, that God foresees what decision man will make in order to include him in His election of Grace ! This is false. Here's why, Paul gives us a great principle that regards Gods Purpose of Election in Rom 9:11, which is, that its made by God before any of the elect were ever born, and had a chance or opportunity to do good or evil ! Notice it reads (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil)

Now, how can God be basing their election upon an foreseen action when the person under consideration was not yet BORN ?

See, if God was choosing me or you based upon a foreseen action of ours, then it would necessitate that He viewed us as already born ! None can perform a good or evil deed before we exist !

So Vs 11 of Rom 9 totally abolishes the false notion that election is based upon foreseeing ones action. That also takes care of the often abused scripture 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Foreknowledge doesnt mean God foreseeing what an individual will do, because election was before they had any being, before they were born to do any good or evil !
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
3,824
335
83
66
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Stumblingblock Truths of the Gospel ! 3

The next Gospel truth besides elect that is an stumblingblock to the natural man is Gods imputing of righteousness without works !

Rom 4:6

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

What does it mean without works ? Well the word works here covers a large spectrum, for instance, its the greek word ergon and means:

  1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
    1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
  2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
  3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

    ἔργον érgon, er'-gon; from a primary (but obsolete) ἔργω érgō (to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act:—deed, doing, labour, work.

    Anything done, a doing of any kind, be it physical or mental natural or spiritual, its a work !

    2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

    And so, God imputes righteousness without works. Without anything done, without any doing of any kind !

    Now this Grand Truth the natural mind of man cannot receive, and its an stumbling block to him because it gives him no reason to be able to boast !

    However, the Truth of it [imputed righteousness without works] is confirmed in the scripture, for instance Rom 5:19

    For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    How are these many made righteous ? By the Obedience of One, that One being Jesus Christ, and so Righteousness was imputed to the many without works, without them do anything !

    Now thats an stumbling block to the natural man ! And yet thats an Gospel Truth Rom 1:16-17 !
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,078
4,919
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This makes me sad, and unsure. How does one actually KNOW that their saved? Are there people out there who believe they are saved because God loves "everybody" and they "even believed on His Name..."? Or, is it that He does NOT love everybody? (Jacob/Esau) And, if God already chose the "elect", and nothing will stop them from coming to Him because He chose them, why evangelize, why the Great Commission?
It's the bouncing back and forth that can make one insane, "am I REALLY saved?", "Does He REALLY love ME?" "Am I fooling myself and others"? If one does not have the assurance of their salvation, what hope is there??

Yes, this IS a stumbling block to me, for sure. I'm one of those weak foolish women who actually Need assurance or it's waking on eggshells always wondering if He loves me...that's no way to live a "free life".
God Bless

My friend Nancy. From my understanding the people who where written and given the Gospel they were are all given the Gospel before the destruction of Jerusalem and the wrath of God was poured out on them. The Apostles where the governance back then of the Bride of Christ and those faithful to the Lord. There was a small section of people in the day whom where elected. And chosen to be part of that bride and they are mentioned as the 144,000 in Revelation.

However though they have been taken by the return of Christ in my belief the kingdom of God which was established fully when all the enemies had been out beneath Jesus feet - Death, Satan, Demons, The Grave, Hell, Separation from God was the full victory Jesus had. After that time was completed in the revelation you still have Revelation 22.

It’s it’s the final vision of what things look like, and I believe we still have the free choice to go and partake of the waters that Jesus provides and the food and nourishment spiritually provided by him - through the grace of God through faith now today.

As a christian believer you should understand that Jesus has indeed saved you from Death (of the mind/will/heart/ emotion towards the world) and those who do his commandments will never see death (because life will be given to the soul mind/will/heart/emotion). Saved you from Satan and Demons.

(We fight against the darkness of our fleshly nature that desires to do bad things).

Jesus has saved your from hell, the grave and the power of sin and death, and saved your from separation from God.

People are saved to the kingdom of God by faith on the death, burial, resurrection of Christ Jesus, and by doing what he commanded: which was to love God, with your soul (mind/will/emotion/heart) first.

Loving your neighbors as yourself.

God bless and remember God does indeed care about you and love you. Just felt like sharing maybe it will encourage others.
 

Mantis

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2020
1,569
1,852
113
The wilderness
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This makes me sad, and unsure. How does one actually KNOW that their saved? Are there people out there who believe they are saved because God loves "everybody" and they "even believed on His Name..."? Or, is it that He does NOT love everybody? (Jacob/Esau) And, if God already chose the "elect", and nothing will stop them from coming to Him because He chose them, why evangelize, why the Great Commission?
It's the bouncing back and forth that can make one insane, "am I REALLY saved?", "Does He REALLY love ME?" "Am I fooling myself and others"? If one does not have the assurance of their salvation, what hope is there??

Yes, this IS a stumbling block to me, for sure. I'm one of those weak foolish women who actually Need assurance or it's waking on eggshells always wondering if He loves me...that's no way to live a "free life".
God Bless
Nancy you wouldn’t be here if you weren’t saved. You are hungry and thirsty for righteousness. Don’t worry.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,761
25,324
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Nancy you wouldn’t be here if you weren’t saved. You are hungry and thirsty for righteousness. Don’t worry.
Hmm, I like that, thanks :) Just wish for so many others to be able to receive this gift that saves.
Happy Thanksgiving brother.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mantis

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
3,824
335
83
66
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Predestination is a stumblingblock truth of the Gospel, for the Gospel is a Gospel of Gods Grace, and its role in Salvation Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.46

of which predestination is a prominent feature. Eph 1:5-6

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
 

farouk

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2009
30,790
19,230
113
North America
Predestination is a stumblingblock truth of the Gospel, for the Gospel is a Gospel of Gods Grace, and its role in Salvation Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.46

of which predestination is a prominent feature. Eph 1:5-6

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
It's there, right?

If it humbles us before God, this is good...
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
See, not all ethnic jews that comprised ethnic Israel under the OC, were chosen of God only a few of them, out of the many of that nation !

So one of the stumblingblock truths of election of Grace, or salvation by grace, it is the fact that its limited to only a remnant, whether a remnant amongst the jews or a remnant amongst the gentiles ! Sorry, but all without exception cannot be of the election of Grace !

You still have much to learn...

Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

KJV


Paul showed you in Romans 11:23-24 that those Jews who have not believed can be graffed back in again once they 'believe'. SO WHY DIDN'T YOU SHOW THAT SCRIPTURE, INSTEAD of JUST DOING YOUR PICK N' CHOOSE fallacious way of presenting Scripture?

Do you really think that preachers today that get up at the pulpit and pull out a verse here, and a verse there, from God's Holy Writ, and apply their 'own' philosophy to it is GOD's WAY? It is NOT! It is the way of the 'hireling' who preaches as a BUSINESS, FOR MONEY. God did not send those.

There aren't that many today that can stick to the CONTEXT of Bible Scripture while quoting a single verse out of a chapter.

And here's something else you might want to think about that God's Word does, time and time again. Often, a DEEPER MESSAGE isn't presented until towards the ending of a Bible Chapter (like here in Romans 11:25 forward also). It's GOD checking us out to see if we're paying attention in His Word. And without even getting to it, like you did with bypassing those above Romans 11 verses I quoted above, it shows you MISSED the fact that God has NOT FORGOTTEN His chosen people of the Jews that still reject... Jesus today!

God is going to REMOVE THEIR BLINDNESS He placed upon the majority of unbelieving Jews. It will happen when the fulness of the Gentiles is complete, which means on the day of Christ's future return. That is when today's unbelieving Jews will believe on Jesus Christ.
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
3,824
335
83
66
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You still have much to learn...

Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

KJV


Paul showed you in Romans 11:23-24 that those Jews who have not believed can be graffed back in again once they 'believe'. SO WHY DIDN'T YOU SHOW THAT SCRIPTURE, INSTEAD of JUST DOING YOUR PICK N' CHOOSE fallacious way of presenting Scripture?

Do you really think that preachers today that get up at the pulpit and pull out a verse here, and a verse there, from God's Holy Writ, and apply their 'own' philosophy to it is GOD's WAY? It is NOT! It is the way of the 'hireling' who preaches as a BUSINESS, FOR MONEY. God did not send those.

There aren't that many today that can stick to the CONTEXT of Bible Scripture while quoting a single verse out of a chapter.

And here's something else you might want to think about that God's Word does, time and time again. Often, a DEEPER MESSAGE isn't presented until towards the ending of a Bible Chapter (like here in Romans 11:25 forward also). It's GOD checking us out to see if we're paying attention in His Word. And without even getting to it, like you did with bypassing those above Romans 11 verses I quoted above, it shows you MISSED the fact that God has NOT FORGOTTEN His chosen people of the Jews that still reject... Jesus today!

God is going to REMOVE THEIR BLINDNESS He placed upon the majority of unbelieving Jews. It will happen when the fulness of the Gentiles is complete, which means on the day of Christ's future return. That is when today's unbelieving Jews will believe on Jesus Christ.
Evasion and rabbit trail from the post point.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,794
19,242
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
1 Cor 1:24

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Two of the most hated and resisted Truths of the Gospel, a stumblingblock to the natural, carnal mind of man are #1 Election of Grace !


First of all election of grace is eternal in that God chose certain individuals, a remnant from mankind in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This Grace of Election was given them In Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Purpose and Grace both refer to election. The Election of Grace Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Now Two things about this eternal election of Grace that men war against. #1. Its always only for a remnant of men, and not all men without exception, hence Paul calls the elect among the jews a remnant Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now even in the OT concerning the jews, Isaiah writes of them Isa 1:9

9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Thats why Jesus says of the nation of Israel, under National Covenet this Matt 22:14

For many are called, but few are chosen.

See, not all ethnic jews that comprised ethnic Israel under the OC, were chosen of God only a few of them, out of the many of that nation !

So one of the stumblingblock truths of election of Grace, or salvation by grace, it is the fact that its limited to only a remnant, whether a remnant amongst the jews or a remnant amongst the gentiles ! Sorry, but all without exception cannot be of the election of Grace !
It is correct to think that no one comes into grace by accident. The sheer impossibility of such a walk in the natural sense shows us the need for the intervention of God to bring us to such a place.

But being so elevated doesn't mean that the person who has been shown such favour will necessarily live up to God's expectation. To whom much is given. more is required. Even Paul remained unsure of his own qualification.

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

And about Jesus being a stumblingblock...He is such to BOTH houses of Israel.

And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.” (Is. 8:14)

With the possibility of grace being a good thing also comes the possibility that we will fail the grace of God.

So then God has upped the ante to give us access to the spiritual kingdom, but that in no way guarantees a good outcome for the elect any more than natural Israel was also elect before the time of grace.

We are meant to learn from the lessons of the bible. But sadly, we seem to not be able to humble ourselves enough to see that we are basically falling into the same errors that the Jews fell into before us.

In that regard, there is nothing new under the sun in our way of responding to the new thing that God has done with the New Covenant. We seem to be trying to grasp New Testament grace with an Old Testament understanding.

But a new Covenant needs a new way of thinking.
 
Last edited:

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
3,824
335
83
66
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What does the preaching of the cross mean? The preaching of the cross or gospel is a apparent denotation to the Person of Christ, Who He is; the Work of Christ, what He did; and for whom Christ did it, the purpose, and, therefore, the matter of His atoning Death: who actually profits. We cannot divorce Who Christ is from what He did, and, therefore, for whom He did it. He died. And, through that Sacrificial and Substitutionary Death He accomplished something: Christ Jesus the Lord obtained salvation for all those for whom He died. He did not merely make salvation possible, but He obtained redemption for those whom God had given Him, His Sheep, Gods Elect, His Body the Church.

Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice/death cannot be separated from the efficiency of it. What Christ's atoning work has accomplished can never be abstract from its efficaciousness and, therefore, for whom it was accomplished.

Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

This is because He hath for them obtained eternal redemption Heb 9:12
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
3,824
335
83
66
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Another stumblingblock truth of the Gospel is the fact that God has created from one lump of clay, mankind, some vessels unto honor [salvation] which are called vessels of mercy, and He has created from the same lump some vessels unto dishonor [damnation] which He calls vessels of wrath, which He fits for destruction Rom 9:20-23

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,466
2,500
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Another stumblingblock truth of the Gospel is the fact that God has created from one lump of clay, mankind, some vessels unto honor [salvation] which are called vessels of mercy, and He has created from the same lump some vessels unto dishonor [damnation] which He calls vessels of wrath, which He fits for destruction Rom 9:20-23

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

And at the end of Isaiah 19, He shows what? Assyria during this present world has been a historical enemy of Israel.