Living in Sin or just roommates who love each other?

Grailhunter · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Hmm...Paul was able to make a doctrine out of misunderstandings:

"9Be careful, however, that your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak." 1 Corinthians 8:9

"16Do not allow what you consider good, then, to be spoken of as evil." Romans 14:16

It is not that I do not agree with this...within reason. But the concept as an all encompassing belief would be an unworkable can of worms.
Even concerning things that are biblical. but you cannot use a non-biblical custom to test someone's consideration. Again the truth makes for a better understand of all things. Correct false beliefs.

Ferris Bueller · Nov 25, 2021

Grailhunter said:
they were not thinking of weddings being involved with marriages. So Paul would not have talked about it.

"So I advise the younger widows to marry, have children, and manage their households, denying the adversary occasion for slander." 1 Timothy 5:14

Do you really think Paul was saying, "just have sex, have children, and manage their households?" No, of course not. The implication here is 'getting married' means more than just a roll in the sack on a regular basis with the same person.

Grailhunter · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
And in the meantime do what? Shove it down their throat and say, "tough, I can do whatever I want."
I don't see that in Paul's counsel. But if I missed that verse please point it out to me.

Christianity is not about doing what you want. It is not about forming beliefs about non-biblical customs. It is not about adhering to false beliefs....it is a never ending trail of lies. Paul would never say to conform to non-biblical customs to be considerate of those that believed in false beliefs.

You did miss a verse...but I don't believe you did....you know about the verse and have read it here....
Do not let people judge you on what you eat and drink.....even though he said he would stop eating meat.
The Christians discarded the Jewish dietary laws...

They worship Me in vain, teaching as doctrines the commands of men. Matthew 5:9

Grailhunter · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Uh, yeah there is. It's called Welch's Grape Juice, lol.
What Protestant churches have you attended?

I have already explained this....you are not going to hear about grape juice in the Bible.
The Protestant churches I attend, I worship the Lord with. I have not found any that are perfect. For one thing most include a lot of man-made sins and rules. Thus my ministry of planting seeds of truth.

Grailhunter · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
But to heck with them if it's about the fact that you are not legally married to your partner, right? No consideration for an unmarried couple and their conscience required in that matter, right?

No consideration of false beliefs. Satan loves to play on lies. To accuse people according to false beliefs. The truth will set you free.
The Christian conscience should be in tune with scriptures and truth, not the doctrines of men.

Grailhunter · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
What's not practical about restraining behavior for the sake of immature and weak Christians and not causing them to sin against their conscience? I mean, I know, to heck with 'em, right? But not allowing some things is certainly a practical way to keep them from sinning against their conscience, right?

It is the preaching of false beliefs that are guilty of all of this. Why not solve the problem instead of building a religion on it and preach lies to people.

Ferris Bueller · Nov 25, 2021

Grailhunter said:
Paul would never say to conform to non-biblical customs to be considerate of those that believed in false beliefs.

"20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law. 21To those without the law I became like one without the law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some." 1 Corinthians 9:20-22

Ferris Bueller · Nov 25, 2021

Grailhunter said:
The Christian conscience should be in tune with scriptures and truth, not the doctrines of men.

And in the meantime, while these weak, uneducated, and inexperienced Christians are learning and growing, we shove our educated freedoms in their face? That's what Paul said, right?

Ferris Bueller · Nov 25, 2021

Grailhunter said:
You did miss a verse...but I don't believe you did....you know about the verse and have read it here....
Do not let people judge you on what you eat and drink.

Right. I don't feel condemned by people who judge my freedoms.
But that hardly means I'm free to flaunt them.

Grailhunter · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Do you really think Paul was saying, "just have sex, have children, and manage their households?"

He did not have to say that the sun will rise in the morning....
This was how it was done since the time of Genesis and continued on until the 9th century and was not officially changed until the Protestants made it a requirement. A requirement for weddings, of which I support. But they cannot change the fact that it was not historical in Christianity or Judaism or the Bible. Normal marriages and families were formed by a man and a woman joining. The desire to change history or reality does not work.

Grailhunter · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
And in the meantime, while these weak, uneducated, and inexperienced Christians are learning and growing, we shove our educated freedoms in their face? That's what Paul said, right?

If freedom is biblical truth....yes.
In the meantime do not agree with false beliefs.....the correction of these things is the responsibility of every Christian. Conforming to false beliefs is never a good thing. This tolerance of the commandments of men is by nature something that multiply. As time goes on more and more false beliefs can be established.

Grailhunter · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Right. I don't feel condemned by people who judge my freedoms.
But that hardly means I'm free to flaunt them.

You are free to practice what is true.

Grailhunter · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Right. I don't feel condemned by people who judge my freedoms.
But that hardly means I'm free to flaunt them.

Hypotheticals live in a vacuum...they do not have to comply with reality or practicality.
Always good to put such things in motion.
So explain how you would handle a couple that comes to your church that had not had a wedding?

Ferris Bueller · Nov 25, 2021

Grailhunter said:
You are free to practice what is true.

...but not so as to make a less mature believer with less knowledge stumble.
That's the part that seems to escape you and all other Christians.

Ferris Bueller · Nov 25, 2021

Grailhunter said:
So explain how you would handle a couple that comes to your church that had not had a wedding?

I already answered this, lol.
GET MARRIED!
You say you're committed to each other and that's all that matters, so what's the big deal?
Prove the commitment you claim that you have! GET MARRIED.

Angelina · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
That the Bible shows us that having sex does not equal getting married.

Well I think it clearly does...In my counrty, if you've lived together for 2 years or more, [in a defacto relationship] you have the same legal rights as a married person if you separated. If I lived with a male friend and did not have a sexual relationship....I would not have the same legal rights. JM2C. I'm sure the law is similar over there

Grailhunter · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
...but not so as to make a less mature believer with less knowledge stumble.
That's the part that seems to escape you and all other Christians.

Unless you have a crystal ball you do not know how messed up people are.
Nor can you tap dance hard enough to accommodate all the issues.
You will end up living in a closet.

Grailhunter · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
I already answered this, lol.
GET MARRIED!
You say you're committed to each other and that's all that matters, so what's the big deal?
Prove the commitment you claim that you have! GET MARRIED.

Are you going turn them away until they are married?
I am asking how you would handle this in the real world?

Curtis · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
No, as I've pointed out, Mary and Joseph (Matthew 1:18-19), Deuteronomy 22:28-29, and the woman at the well (John 4:16-18) all dispel the belief that simply having sex makes you married to that person.

Jesus was talking to a woman not even in the covenant, so the fact he didn’t go into explanation about two becoming one constituting a marriage from the covenant, doesn’t nullify the fact that Paul said you become one in marriage with a prostitute, (and quotes the Genesis 2:24 verse about the fact that marriage as God created it is a man and a woman leave mother and father, and cleave together and become as one, is in fact incontrovertible proof that sexual intercourse makes a marriage in Gods eyes.

Ferris Bueller said:
Yes. He says to GET MARRIED if you have sex - Deuteronomy 22:28-29.
But we say, having sex IS getting married.

And I think it's obvious we say that because we want to avoid making a commitment. For deep inside of us we know that if you don't 'get married' it leaves the door open for us to leave the relationship. 'Sex is getting married' is how we justify not making an actual marital commitment to another person.

i say it because scripture says it.

I just found this from the well known Focus on the Family:

Question: When a couple has consensual sex, doesn’t that mean they’re essentially married in God’s eyes?

If everyone believed that sex implies marriage, women would be more likely to guard their virginity, and men would be far more careful if they knew that sexual intimacy demanded commitment. Shouldn’t that be the message we communicate when it comes to premarital sex?

ANSWER:
Technically speaking, you’re right: In God’s eyes, sexual union is an integral part of marriage — even more than church ceremonies or legal documents. But consensual sex isn’t the same thing as the commitment of marriage.

Applying theology to contemporary culture
Scripture tells us that marriage is fundamentally a matter of a man and a woman becoming one flesh (Genesis 2:24). And sexual intercourse is central to that process. Modern culture might treat sex as a toy, but in reality it’s a powerful thing. It creates a bond between a husband and wife that isn’t easily broken.

That truth is why the apostle Paul warns, “Do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, ‘The two will become one flesh.’” (1 Corinthians 6:16).

But biblical theology needs to be put into practical application. And it’s not so much a matter of helping people understand that sexual activity equals marriage in the eyes of God — the real question is how to get them to care.

Curtis · Nov 25, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Yes. He says to GET MARRIED if you have sex - Deuteronomy 22:28-29.
But we say, having sex IS getting married.

And I think it's obvious we say that because we want to avoid making a commitment. For deep inside of us we know that if you don't 'get married' it leaves the door open for us to leave the relationship. 'Sex is getting married' is how we justify not making an actual marital commitment to another person.

The point is, teaching that there’s no such thing as casual sex to God - have sex and you’re committed for life, in Gods eyes - and if you switch partners, it’s adultery, because you’re still married to the first sexual partner.

There were no priests to marry the first example of marriage, per Jesus’ teaching - Adam and Eve - no paper license was issued, no ring ritual was performed - they cleaved together and became as one through the sexual union.

Living in Sin or just roommates who love each other?

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