When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,076
2,197
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Paul was a Pharisee, as well as nicodemus.
I am often amazed by the either /or reasoning of some people here.
The Pharisees that Jesus was referring to in Matthew 23 were the ruling body of the High Priest and his cronies. Not all Pharisees belonged to that group. Jesus called what they taught "leaven"....a corrupting agent. It was they who orchestrated Jesus' murder.

Just because Paul and Nicodemus were Pharisees, didn't mean that they were eliminated from becoming Christians.
That is like saying all Catholic people are wicked because their leadership is corrupt. No one was eliminated because of race or faith or denomination.....all could equally come to Christ as long as they followed his teachings fully and not the teachings of the faith they had left. The trouble was that many brought their former beliefs with them and tried to marry them in. Roman Catholicism made a career out of doing that. So many of her doctrines are just disguised pagan beliefs that the Romans incorporated to make the pagans feel at home.

I’m amazed, that the jehovah witnesses have adopted all these modern church doctrines.
What modern church doctrines would that be because as far as I am aware, we hold very few beliefs in common with Christendom at all. As one who came out of Christendom, I can assure you that this is true.

out of the ashes of Rome came the British Empire who ruled until America, (allied with Britain from whom she descended) emerged as a super power in the 20th century. There are no more kings after these.

Says @Aunty Jane.
What I believe the Bible says actually....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby Jo

Bobby Jo

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2019
8,041
3,778
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
.. I trust that he will provide what we need.

Dearest AJ,

It seems to me that FAITH starts with OBEDIENCE, -- and we have been given instructions for good reason!

... The nations involving "the King of the North" and "the King of the South ...

I think it's interesting that Russia is geographically further "North" than the U.K./U.S. ("South"), and also that after WWII one of the King of the South's "princes" (i.e., Canada, Australia, U.S., India, etc.) became "stronger" than the "King":

Dan. 11:5 “Then the king of the south shall be strong, but one of his princes shall be stronger than he and his dominion shall be a great dominion.

And equally, it isn't until the end of the age when [#1] CHINA (Leopard, which is actually a "TIGER") plays it's role with a 200M man army; and [#2] Citizen DISSENT threatens Russia's internal stability in light of their attack against Israel and the Middle East:

Dan. 11:44 But tidings from the east and the north shall alarm him, and he shall go forth with great fury to exterminate and utterly destroy many.

... whereupon we should expect the FULL BLOWN EFFORT of the U.N. to subjugate ALL the nations of the earth, which will culminate with Global Thermonuclear War.


With VERY Best Regards,
Bobby Jo & ELAM :rolleyes:

.
 

post

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
1,544
601
113
_
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You've apparently assessed your own situation, but please do not presume to assess mine.

And now on IGNORE.
Bobby Jo

.

pretty quick to ignore a person who tells you the truth eh

"well met"

LOL
 

post

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
1,544
601
113
_
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Regardless of what he said to the Samaritan woman or Pilate, Jesus said he was sent only to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel,” (Matthew 15:24) but Jesus did on occasion respond to expressions of faith by non-Jews. (Matthew 8:5-13; 15:21-28) Jesus demonstrated that it is possible to be “no part of the world” and at the same time show love for the world of mankind, for people. All of these instances are people who showed faith in him.

regardless of being 'sent to the lost sheep of Israel' He did not openly say to them, He is Messiah.
to Gentiles, He did.
so 'sent to' Israel involved hiding Himself from Israel, in flesh. ask why. because Mark 4:12, Isaiah 6:9


Do I? So where is it written that we have a reason for that

John 5:39 is an imperative. check the Greek.
if you reject that, have a look at Acts 17:11. or 2 Timothy 2:15. or Ephesians 5:17
how many witnesses are sufficient for the great and powerful Jane?
why do you resist such basic doctrine?
because of your vanity. and because you have no answer for what i ask you.
which is why i ask you what i ask you -- you are transparent.
i know exactly what you don't know. so i ask you about it.
to demonstrate. to make plain and public.
and you? you say "rabbit hole nuh"

50 years.
pfff
clearly wasted.


What makes you think I don't have Genesis 3 right?

you think Adam is an unsaved idiot.
but Romans 5 and Genesis 3 and 1 Timothy 2 exist.
"for a start"

but you ain't got time for actual Bible study, huh?
despite your signature tag line 'loves Bible study'
too busy arguing over words and loving the preeminence.

you ain't hiding nothin'
not the Truth; that's certain.
 
Last edited:

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,076
2,197
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
regardless of being 'sent to the lost sheep of Israel' He did not openly say to them, He is Messiah.
to Gentiles, He did.
so 'sent to' Israel involved hiding Himself from Israel, in flesh. ask why. because Mark 4:12, Isaiah 6:9




John 5:39 is an imperative.
if you reject that, have a look at Acts 17:11. or 2 Timothy 2:15. or Ephesians 5:17
why do you resist such basic doctrine?
because of your vanity. and because you have no answer for what i ask you.
which is why i ask you what i ask you -- you are transparent.
i know exactly what you don't know. so i ask you about it.
to demonstrate. to make plain and public.
and you? you say "rabbit hole nuh"

50 years.
pfff
clearly wasted.




you think Adam is an unsaved idiot.
but Romans 5 and Genesis 3 and 1 Timothy 2 exist.
"for a start"

but you ain't got time for actual Bible study, huh?
despite your signature tag line 'loves Bible study'
too busy arguing over words and loving the preeminence.

you ain't hiding nothin'
not the Truth, that's certain.
Sorry sport, but I believe that spiritually you are well represented by your avatar. I can see right through you....
You are so convinced that you are right and everyone else is wrong...but can I ask you what brotherhood you belong to?
Who are your teachers? Who else believes what you do? Lets examine them and their belief system.....
 

post

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
1,544
601
113
_
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You've apparently assessed your own situation, but please do not presume to assess mine.

And now on IGNORE.
Bobby Jo

.

this is fantastic

i quoted Romans 3:11 to him
our very first interaction on this forum, ever

he decides to immediately put me on his ignore list for that

and this guy has three thousand and three hundred likes, and counting



some forum y'all got huh
3,000 of you hate to hear the truth?
oh but you are super-holy-extra-Christians??
nice.
 
Last edited:

post

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
1,544
601
113
_
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sorry sport, but I believe that spiritually you are well represented by your avatar. I can see right through you....
You are so convinced that you are right and everyone else is wrong...but can I ask you what brotherhood you belong to?
Who are your teachers? Who else believes what you do? Lets examine them and their belief system.....

why does Adam change his dead wife's name full of death to "mother of all who live" ?

examine God if you're looking for someone to accuse.
He wrote these things.

He wrote them for you, babe.
 

post

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
1,544
601
113
_
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who are your teachers? Lets examine them and their belief system.....

Tertullian.
Clarence Larkin.
Vernon McGee.
Ada Ruth Habersham.
Ignatius of Loyola.
A.W. Pink.
Justin Martyr.
Edgar Andrews.
Polycarp.
Origen.
Arnold Fruchtenbaum.
Irenaeus.
Spurgeon.
some guy name Bob.
the LORD God Almighty = JESUS OF NAZARETH.
Solomon.
John.
Paul.
the Spirit of the Most High.

which messenger you gonna shoot instead of answering my question @Aunty Jane ?
that sounds fun huh
maybe you can save vain face by attacking someone. cool.
pretty Christian of you eh. amazing. so wise. wow.
 

post

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2021
1,544
601
113
_
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
spiritually you are well represented by your avatar.

a man of prayer, who has died and whose life is hid in Christ. Colossians 3:3

thanks for noticing.

thanks for insulting me & my character for the cause of Christ.
on account of my asking you hard & pertinent scriptural questions.

pretty cool.
you're so impressive, wow.
wish i could be as holy as you, i guess.

suppose i'm added to yet another ignore list for telling the truth huh
i ain't here for popularity, doll. for the Truth, that He may be made evident.

do it.
be who you really are.
 
Last edited:

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Since secular history bears out the truth of Daniel's prophesy and Rome was the world power when Jesus walked the earth, Britannia rose from the ashes of the Roman Empire and in these last days has allied herself with America who herself became a superpower in the 20th century. It is “in the final part of the days” that “the offspring of mankind,” the common man, comes to the fore. In many lands kings, kaisers, and czars who were absolute rulers are replaced by both revolutionary and democratic rulers. Human misrule of the earth becomes a hodgepodge of harsh dictatorships and more pliable democratic forms of government. Like iron and clay, these do not mix. Even in the United Nations they do not come together but engage in angry debates and threats. Truly, ‘the kingdom proves to be divided.’ (Daniel 2:41-43)

We see in “the final part of the days,” the issue of world domination comes to its culmination. The nations involving "the King of the North" and "the King of the South engage in a "pushing". Threats fly and peace seems a long way away.

So, what is the solution? Already set in motion since 1914 is God’s Messianic Kingdom. It is the “stone” cut out of the “mountain” of Jehovah’s universal sovereignty. No human politician shares in that! At God’s due time, it smashes the feet of the image and grinds the entire colossus to powder. Like chaff before the wind, man-rule is carried away, with no trace being left. But the “stone”—the Kingdom of the grand God and his Christ—becomes a large mountain that fills the whole earth. That kingdom ‘will never be brought to ruin and will never be passed on to any other people.’ It will stand forever. That is what I believe the Bible foretells.
Okay, that all sounds relatively feasible, maybe even Biblical. But it's not. The statue of Daniel 2 must form the basis, foundation, and superstructure of every subsequent prophecy. If your interpretation isn't in harmony with either the angels interpretation, or i harmony with that statue, you need to start again. First issue I have is that the statue reveals the iron of Rome continuing unbroken albeit in a diluted form all the way to the end...it is at the end that Rome, as well as the clay, silver, bronze and gold, is turned to dust. Your theory has it that Rome completely disappears before the second coming. And ignores Revelation 13 that reveals all those empires have morphed into another beast altogether...the amalgamation of clay and iron. But where is the gold, the silver, and the bronze if at the end according to the prophecy, there's only iron and clay? What is that composite beast of Revelation 13, and how does it relate to the statue? You need to answer those questions in order to harmonize the whole.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
We see in “the final part of the days,” the issue of world domination comes to its culmination. The nations involving "the King of the North" and "the King of the South engage in a "pushing". Threats fly and peace seems a long way away.
Who is represented by the "king of the south", and "king of the north" in your opinion?
 

Cooper

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2020
2,776
866
113
Sheffield, Yorkshire, home of Robin Hood.
robinhood-loxley.weebly.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
The Son of Man in Dan 7:13 is Jesus the Ancient of Days in Revelation 1 and is a reference to His eternal existence before Abraham. Daniel’s vision is about the second coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The four great beasts represent four world powers who arise out of the earth.

“They will come out of the sea” which usually typifies the Gentile nations and verse 17 tells us they will come out of the earth; meaning their morality is non-spiritual and of this earth.

The fourth beast surpassed the others with ferocity and cruelty. It will blaspheme the Most High, persecute the saints, and will try to change the Jewish calendar for three and a half years. (This is the Great Tribulation referred to by the Lord Jesus in Matthew_24:21.) But it will be stripped of power and the glorious, everlasting kingdom of our Lord will be ushered in.
.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,076
2,197
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Okay, that all sounds relatively feasible, maybe even Biblical. But it's not. The statue of Daniel 2 must form the basis, foundation, and superstructure of every subsequent prophecy. If your interpretation isn't in harmony with either the angels interpretation, or i harmony with that statue, you need to start again. First issue I have is that the statue reveals the iron of Rome continuing unbroken albeit in a diluted form all the way to the end...it is at the end that Rome, as well as the clay, silver, bronze and gold, is turned to dust. Your theory has it that Rome completely disappears before the second coming.
I think you might be forgetting that Rome was not conquered, which is why I said, out of the ashes of Rome rose Britannia.

The iron legs of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream image pictured not only the Roman Empire but also its political outgrowth. Consider these words recorded at Revelation 17:10....
“There are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while.”
When the apostle John penned these words, he was being held in exile by the Romans, on the isle of Patmos. The five fallen kings, or world powers, were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. The sixth—the Roman Empire—was still in power. But it also was to fall, and the seventh king would arise from one of Rome’s captured territories.

Britain was once a northwestern part of the Roman Empire. But by the year 1763, it had become the British Empire—the Britannia that ruled the seven seas. By 1776 its 13 American colonies had declared their independence in order to set up the United States of America. In later years, however, Britain and the United States became partners in both war and peace. Thus, the Anglo-American combination came into existence as the seventh world power of Bible prophecy. Like the Roman Empire, it has proved to be “strong like iron,” exercising ironlike authority. The iron legs of the dream image thus include both the Roman Empire and the Anglo-American dual world power.

And ignores Revelation 13 that reveals all those empires have morphed into another beast altogether...the amalgamation of clay and iron. But where is the gold, the silver, and the bronze if at the end according to the prophecy, there's only iron and clay? What is that composite beast of Revelation 13, and how does it relate to the statue? You need to answer those questions in order to harmonize the whole.
The wild beast with seven heads introduced at Revelation 13:1 represents the worldwide political system.
  • It has authority, power, and a throne, which point to its being a political entity. (Revelation 13:2)

  • It rules over “every tribe and people and tongue and nation,” so it is greater than a single national government. (Revelation 13:7
  • It combines features of the four beasts described in the prophecy at Daniel 7:2-8, including the appearance of a leopard, the feet of a bear, a lion’s mouth, and ten horns. The beasts in Daniel’s prophecy are identified as specific kings, or political kingdoms, that rule in succession over empires. (Daniel 7:17, 23) Thus, the wild beast of Revelation chapter 13 represents a composite political organization.
Who is represented by the "king of the south", and "king of the north" in your opinion?
The two blocks of nations during this time of the end who have been “pushing” one another.....
The King of the North I believe today, is Russia and her allies, against The USA and her allies as the King of the South.
 
Last edited:

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,383
6,295
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I think you might be forgetting that Rome was not conquered, which is why I said, out of the ashes of Rome rose Britannia.

The iron legs of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream image pictured not only the Roman Empire but also its political outgrowth. Consider these words recorded at Revelation 17:10....
“There are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while.”
When the apostle John penned these words, he was being held in exile by the Romans, on the isle of Patmos. The five fallen kings, or world powers, were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. The sixth—the Roman Empire—was still in power. But it also was to fall, and the seventh king would arise from one of Rome’s captured territories.

Britain was once a northwestern part of the Roman Empire. But by the year 1763, it had become the British Empire—the Britannia that ruled the seven seas. By 1776 its 13 American colonies had declared their independence in order to set up the United States of America. In later years, however, Britain and the United States became partners in both war and peace. Thus, the Anglo-American combination came into existence as the seventh world power of Bible prophecy. Like the Roman Empire, it has proved to be “strong like iron,” exercising ironlike authority. The iron legs of the dream image thus include both the Roman Empire and the Anglo-American dual world power.


The wild beast with seven heads introduced at Revelation 13:1 represents the worldwide political system.
  • It has authority, power, and a throne, which point to its being a political entity. (Revelation 13:2)

  • It rules over “every tribe and people and tongue and nation,” so it is greater than a single national government. (Revelation 13:7)

  • It combines features of the four beasts described in the prophecy at Daniel 7:2-8, including the appearance of a leopard, the feet of a bear, a lion’s mouth, and ten horns. The beasts in Daniel’s prophecy are identified as specific kings, or political kingdoms, that rule in succession over empires. (Daniel 7:17, 23) Thus, the wild beast of Revelation chapter 13 represents a composite political organization.

The two blocks of nations during this time of the end who have been “pushing” one another.....
The King of the North I believe today, is Russia and her allies, against The USA and her allies as the King of the South.
Okay. I think you are close...on the right track. But you miss a couple of important aspects I believe.
I am aware of the history of Rome. History fully attested to the validity of the prophecies. Exactly. But Britain was just one of ten horns. 3 were uprooted by the little horn (which you haven't mentioned) and the remaining seven, one of which was the anglo-saxons, assimilated by that little horn which over time grew into a beast in its own right...the first beast of Revel.13. The ten horns however on that beast are different to the ten horns in Daniel. 3 of those ceased to exist. So that new beast, the more recent version of the little horn, grows ten horns depicting modern powers/kings who we are told later, "rule for a short time with the beast". That is yet future. But back to Daniel. I don't think it a good idea to simply disregard the other six horns in favor of Britain. They all had highly essential roles to play, the Franks in particular, over the ensuing centuries in helping to consolidate the power base and the claims to authority that the little horn boasted of. You cant just suddenly jump from the 6th century to the 18th. Prophecy didn't work like that. Nor did the history that validated the prophecy. There's a continuous timeline that needs to be understood. The actions of the little horn, an accurate identification of him, an appreciation of how he fulfilled all the prophetic criteria that God gave in order for us to know precisely his identity, must be taken into account.
 

Bobby Jo

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2019
8,041
3,778
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Your theory has it that Rome completely disappears before the second coming.
Rome is DEAD, and another (Italy) occupies that ancient geography.


...Revelation 13 that reveals all those empires have morphed into another beast...What is that composite beast of Revelation 13 ...

The Dan. 2:45 "4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE" DIVIDED KINGDOM is represented by:
Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S. "MOUTH" because they have expertise in Technology, Trade, Science, & Finance
Leopard (actually a TIGER), China "BODY" because China has the World's Largest Population
Bear, Russia "FEET" because Russia has the World's Greatest Land Mass (3M sq. mi. each for U.S., Canada, China, but 8M for Russia)


Some people can't see what's RIGHT BEFORE THEY EYES.
Bobby Jo

.
 
Last edited:

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Hello,

If you are considering when Daniel 7:13-14 happened then you do not understand the scriptures as they set out a timeline of how all the events happen.

Now if Daniel 7:9-12 happened immediately before the described event in the next two verses, then has verses 9-12 already happened in heaven yet?

My response to that question is No as the kings of the earth have also not been judged at the same time as the heavenly hosts, five of whom are described in Daniel 7:1-12 with the sixth heavenly host entity, Satan, not included in the description of judgement in Daniel 7:9-12.

Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us that the two duel events happen at the same time, and to my knowledge, they both have not happened yet. It is my understanding that the Isaiah 24:21-22 prophetic event will occur at the end of this present age, and that the prophetic forecast as to when the end of this present age will transpire, was told to us by Jesus in Matthew 24:32, Mark 13:28 and Luke 21:29-30 which indicates the time when this age ends and the last age begins.

It seems to me that people are trying to grasp at straws, not knowing which straw to draw to reach their respective conclusions.

As it is all in God's hands, why then should we be concerned as to when and how these two events will happen. We are told to observe God at work and to see His Glory unfolding as the last age for mankind in this present form of the earth begin to unfold as He has determined.

Shalom

PS: - Christ is not coming at the end of this age to begin ruling the earth from the surface of the earth, nor will the Pre-trib raptured people return to laud it over the rest of the people of the earth when He returns to the face of the earth, but rather when Christ returns to the face of the earth at the end of the last age for this present earth, everyone will see Him in the Clouds with all of the Heavenly Hosts.

Now if that event is still in our distant future, are we worrying about the issues that should be concerning us today, like taking care of the widows, orphans etc.
 

Waiting on him

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
11,674
6,096
113
56
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello,

If you are considering when Daniel 7:13-14 happened then you do not understand the scriptures as they set out a timeline of how all the events happen.

Now if Daniel 7:9-12 happened immediately before the described event in the next two verses, then has verses 9-12 already happened in heaven yet?

My response to that question is No as the kings of the earth have also not been judged at the same time as the heavenly hosts, five of whom are described in Daniel 7:1-12 with the sixth heavenly host entity, Satan, not included in the description of judgement in Daniel 7:9-12.

Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us that the two duel events happen at the same time, and to my knowledge, they both have not happened yet. It is my understanding that the Isaiah 24:21-22 prophetic event will occur at the end of this present age, and that the prophetic forecast as to when the end of this present age will transpire, was told to us by Jesus in Matthew 24:32, Mark 13:28 and Luke 21:29-30 which indicates the time when this age ends and the last age begins.

It seems to me that people are trying to grasp at straws, not knowing which straw to draw to reach their respective conclusions.

As it is all in God's hands, why then should we be concerned as to when and how these two events will happen. We are told to observe God at work and to see His Glory unfolding as the last age for mankind in this present form of the earth begin to unfold as He has determined.

Shalom

PS: - Christ is not coming at the end of this age to begin ruling the earth from the surface of the earth, nor will the Pre-trib raptured people return to laud it over the rest of the people of the earth when He returns to the face of the earth, but rather when Christ returns to the face of the earth at the end of the last age for this present earth, everyone will see Him in the Clouds with all of the Heavenly Hosts.

Now if that event is still in our distant future, are we worrying about the issues that should be concerning us today, like taking care of the widows, orphans etc.
The apostle Paul was a king and priest, and also acknowledged he’d already been judged.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,076
2,197
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Okay. I think you are close...on the right track. But you miss a couple of important aspects I believe.
I am aware of the history of Rome. History fully attested to the validity of the prophecies. Exactly. But Britain was just one of ten horns. 3 were uprooted by the little horn (which you haven't mentioned) and the remaining seven, one of which was the anglo-saxons, assimilated by that little horn which over time grew into a beast in its own right...the first beast of Revel.13. The ten horns however on that beast are different to the ten horns in Daniel. 3 of those ceased to exist. So that new beast, the more recent version of the little horn, grows ten horns depicting modern powers/kings who we are told later, "rule for a short time with the beast". That is yet future. But back to Daniel. I don't think it a good idea to simply disregard the other six horns in favor of Britain. They all had highly essential roles to play, the Franks in particular, over the ensuing centuries in helping to consolidate the power base and the claims to authority that the little horn boasted of.
I did not include all the details as for now at this juncture, prophesy is history written in advance. Its all very interesting how it all played out, but we need to concentrate on where we are NOW in the stream of time, and see that we are indeed living in the time of the feet of Nebuchadnezzar's dream image.

images


God's Kingdom is pictured as a stone (not cut by human hands) which strikes the image at its feet causing the entire structure to collapse and be destroyed. It says in Daniel 2:44 that "in the days of those kings" (the ones represented by the feet of iron and clay) that God will set up his Kingdom, which will "come" and destroy all failed and corrupt human governments and replace them as earth's only ruling body. Imagine an earth ruled by Jesus Christ and his elect, incorruptible and steadfast in their stance for what is the will of their God and Father. Jesus is the one pictured as separating the "sheep from the goats" and sending the goats off into destruction. (Matthew 25:31-33; 41)

You cant just suddenly jump from the 6th century to the 18th. Prophecy didn't work like that. Nor did the history that validated the prophecy. There's a continuous timeline that needs to be understood. The actions of the little horn, an accurate identification of him, an appreciation of how he fulfilled all the prophetic criteria that God gave in order for us to know precisely his identity, must be taken into account.
Yes, and that is easily determined by a careful study of the scriptures and secular history.....but concentrating on the historical details can rob us of discerning how close we are to the conclusion, bearing down upon us. The present day rulers are the last ones in Daniel's prophesy, so we can expect to see the disintegration of human society that has already begun....God's Kingdom will "come"...ready or not and Jesus told us to "keep on the watch" because we do not know the day or the hour...but we do know the signs, because Jesus gave them to us so that we would know when he was ruling in his Kingdom. We are presently in the time of his "parousia" in which his presence would be discerned in the world events that he foretold. (Matthew 24:3-14)

The eighth king of Revelation has not yet begun its rule.
Revelation 17:10-14...
"And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14 These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.”

The greatest tribulation in the history of the world is about to take place and we have to be ready for what precipitates it. Jesus said that his coming to judge the world would be "at a time that we do not think it to be" (Matthew 24:44)....so we have to acknowledge the present, more so than the past IMV.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,076
2,197
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The apostle Paul was a king and priest, and also acknowledged he’d already been judged.
Actually the kingship and priesthood of the elect had to wait till they were resurrected to heaven.
As Revelation 20:6 says...
"Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years."

It doesn't say that they were already 'kings and priests' whilst in their flesh, but that they "will be" given those positions when they reign with Christ for the thousand years it will take to undo all the damage done to the human race, as well as the earth itself that has been polluted by their bloodshed, greed and selfishness.
 

nenagana

Member
Oct 1, 2021
128
1
18
41
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
you need an explanation for why the two recorded times He openly revealed & declared Himself as the Messiah were to the gentile woman at the well and to the gentile ruler Pilate.

you need to ask why those two instances/witnesses are recorded.

you need to get Genesis 3 right. it screws up all your theology when you have it wrong. it's the beginning, for a reason.

(jesus spoke to them moments before they died, now they would of died if they didn't repent................a women, in the gospel's law is generally viewed as unclean with testimony, if she was trying to teach the gospel or rebuke the gospel or etc.)

(jesus also spoke to pilate moments before his death, god will tolerate the suicide pleasure satan only produces, upto a certain degree, then you would see mass deaths, mass euthanasia is less common in the new testament...................)

God allows humanity to die blind and dumb in the new testament to fulfill the gospel's law, (no man knows the day or the hours)..........does daniel 7:13-14, reference a sign or a vision? not necessarily, if God does not allow humanity to be a witness, as a result of its "untoward generations" (unclean or removed genetic lines, versus the gospel's tables of god's discernment).

(satan believes it has autonomy with authority................satan believes mankind is allowed to pray or be faithful only because satan allows that.................that will cost lives...........openly if necessary with god, however, in the new testament, god disputes humanities ability to be a witness, and god voiced that before taking lives in mass.....................with the two witnesses in revelations, it may not be valuable with god to do anything more then to allow them to die secretly if necessary)

(reply) (question about two gentiles jesus revealed himself too)
(a "sign or a vision is a priviledge", because you don't have that it does not mean, god views humanity has more valuable in its cesspool, then the faithful god has in view (that will cost lives))

(remember issac newton, killed mostly the rich and politicians, apart of the basic human rights the gospel guarantees is, the ability to worship)

(the new testament does not mean humanity is exempt from god, or from seeing death, it means only that, humanities desire for suicide pleasure is presented to it has a snare, to cutoff the unfaithful and humanity from the blessing of jesus/gospel's program for the new universe, etc)
 
Last edited: