Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Regardless of nominative or dative, the object (noun) modified by the singular adjective poneros (evil) is "one" resulting in "evil one" for both 1 John 5:18 and 1 John 5:19.
By the way, in grammar, a subject (noun) does an action (verb) upon a direct object while in some instances an indirect object is the recipient of the direct object.
1) a direct object is properly termed "a direct object of the subject".
2) an indirect object is properly termed "an indirect object of the subject".
When you wrote "indirect object of lies", then you have linguistically illegally applied the object of poneros (evil one) to the verb "lies".
This is basic grammar that you fail to understand.
You previously brought up Paul, but you gave no scriptural citations, yet I provided scriptural citations for Paul and you makes no mention of these citations that show the agreement between Paul and John.
See the correlation between 1 John 5:18 and Ephesians 2:3.
Also, see the correlation between 1 John 5:19 and Ephesians 2:2.
The construct of the passage is, specifically, that John writes of the born of God Christian "the evil one does not touch him" (1 John 5:18) as well as John writes of tje non-christians "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).
John used compare and contrast between the evil one's relationship to the saved and the evil one's relationship to the unsaved (1 John 5:18-19).
Paul also abused compare and contrast for the same purpose as John.
Paul wrote of the "evil one", that is Satan, with "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2).
Paul, like John, describes how the non-christians have "spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:2), yet born again Christians "all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh" (Ephesians 2:3).
A Christian lies in Christ - that is one with Lord Jesus - not serving two masters.
A non-christian lies in the evil one - that is outside of Christ.
Christ died exclusively for His chosen friends.
Where does a Christian live physically? does He lis in heavenly places physically or does he lie in this present evil (poneros) world? Once again the is a spatial or geographic connotation and not a relational connotation according to the definition of "lie".
Also why then do the older translators all write it as wickedness and it is only the more modern translators who translate it as wicked one.
Do you think they are more scholarly than the older scholars?
Here is an argument from a greek scholar:
"The second difficulty with 1 John 5:19 is with the phrase “the wicked one.” Technically, the word “one” in “wicked one” is not there. This is why the King James Version, for example, translates the word as “wickedness” rather than “the wicked one.” The Greek word is a substantival adjective, which means that it is an adjective used in the place of a noun. We do this in English, as with the Clint Eastwood movie, “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.”
So in 1 John 5:19, translators have to decide whether the substantive adjective (Gk., tō ponērō) is referring a thing (wickedness) or to a being (the wicked one). Those translators that opt for “a being” called “the wicked one” then add additional words to the verse to show how the world lies on the wicked one. They say it lies under “the power” or under “the sway” of the wicked one (NIV, NAS, NKJV). Those translations that opt for a thing, “wickedness,” need no additional words to explain John’s point (KJV, Rheims).".
Now the verses:
1 John 5:18-19
King James Version
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
One cannot say in 18 that the wicked one doesn't touch (relationally) haptomai, and then in verse 19 John says the whole world lies (kemai) meaning in a relational way and then try to say the whole world doesn't mean the whole world!
NO NO NO! In verse 18, we have no relationship with Satan, but in verse 19 we lie or inhabit his domain or wickled ness for the whole world is plunged in wickedness.